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Do I falsely accuse others, Do I continue to tell people they believe something which can not be proven, Do I continue to make up things about them,
You spoke about a dividing line, The dividing line is context, As to how one is saved, Yet the ignore this context as inconsequential and continue to spread the lies,,
When someone confronts me, and I am shown to be in error. Do I blame shift, Do I blame others, Do I ignore the fact that I did anything wrong at all. or have I confessed my sin in front of the room, and asked for forgiveness.
I am not perfect. I never claimed to be, But if I am in willful sin, Then something needs to be done, Not by just a few people, but everyone..
I believe Hebrews 5.8 is the verse stunned is asking about. I will post the complete passage to insure proper context is shown.
Hebrews 5.7-10
[SUP]7 [/SUP]In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
Hebrews 5.7-10
[SUP]7 [/SUP]In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
I can't recall when I've ever disagreed with DesertRose on anything. 
I usually understand you too. Although I sometimes agree with you and further expand a thought and you think I'm disagreeing, which is trippy.
The obedience of faith has been a struggle for me. No sooner did I meet Him almost, when it started. The first thing I remember was the whole idea of only collecting enough for the day and not storing up treasure on earth. Our entire system is against this. Our entire system tells me I'll be eating catfood in my old age if I don't diligently store up treasure on earth. Yet He says to not worry about these things as unbelievers do, to trust that God will feed me, to be content if I have enough to eat and to not take care for tomorrow.
It's immediately obvious the our entire system works in direct opposition to all of that. And that to follow Him and believe Him, I have to give that all up as a delusion. I mean that's the only choice. What the world says and teaches and preaches or what He says. I can either choose to have the obedience of faith in Him and what He says or in the world and what it says.
And I see that He put the same choice before Israel in the dessert. And I see that they failed. He said collect only enough for the day, which plainly correlates with: don't store up treasure on earth. I can almost hear the echoes of our own arguments way back then - He didn't mean it literally, if you take Him literally and He doesn't drop food out of the sky tomorrow or the next day, and you haven't collected more than enough for the day, don't come crying to me when you and your children are starving because of your stupidity, He didn't say to leave your brain at the door of the tent of meeting, your of no earthly good because you take what He says too literally...
It's like nothing has changed too much.
And the obedience of faith is a struggle because the whole world and it's system and way presses against you when you struggle in faith in what He has said. And even your own mind struggles and strives against this faith, this trust. And everyday, you have to make the choice - what He said or what the world says.
And once you make it through the struggle of faith in that area, another struggle of the obedience of faith comes over Him saying He will never abandon you or leave you. Yet He seems to go silent and you can't seem to find Him and you become very thirsty for Him. He seems to be ignoring you. And you see the correlation with Israel in the desert. It says He allowed them to become very, very thirsty in the desert and it gives the reason as this: to see what they would do. Would they have the obedience of faith despite it appearing like He'd abandoned them and was going to let them die of thirst, or would they lose their trust?
And once you get into the obedience of faith and realize He's growing your character and endurance and the obedience of faith by what you are suffering, the next test of faith comes on another point or promise from Him.
I usually understand you too. Although I sometimes agree with you and further expand a thought and you think I'm disagreeing, which is trippy.
The obedience of faith has been a struggle for me. No sooner did I meet Him almost, when it started. The first thing I remember was the whole idea of only collecting enough for the day and not storing up treasure on earth. Our entire system is against this. Our entire system tells me I'll be eating catfood in my old age if I don't diligently store up treasure on earth. Yet He says to not worry about these things as unbelievers do, to trust that God will feed me, to be content if I have enough to eat and to not take care for tomorrow.
It's immediately obvious the our entire system works in direct opposition to all of that. And that to follow Him and believe Him, I have to give that all up as a delusion. I mean that's the only choice. What the world says and teaches and preaches or what He says. I can either choose to have the obedience of faith in Him and what He says or in the world and what it says.
And I see that He put the same choice before Israel in the dessert. And I see that they failed. He said collect only enough for the day, which plainly correlates with: don't store up treasure on earth. I can almost hear the echoes of our own arguments way back then - He didn't mean it literally, if you take Him literally and He doesn't drop food out of the sky tomorrow or the next day, and you haven't collected more than enough for the day, don't come crying to me when you and your children are starving because of your stupidity, He didn't say to leave your brain at the door of the tent of meeting, your of no earthly good because you take what He says too literally...
It's like nothing has changed too much.
And the obedience of faith is a struggle because the whole world and it's system and way presses against you when you struggle in faith in what He has said. And even your own mind struggles and strives against this faith, this trust. And everyday, you have to make the choice - what He said or what the world says.
And once you make it through the struggle of faith in that area, another struggle of the obedience of faith comes over Him saying He will never abandon you or leave you. Yet He seems to go silent and you can't seem to find Him and you become very thirsty for Him. He seems to be ignoring you. And you see the correlation with Israel in the desert. It says He allowed them to become very, very thirsty in the desert and it gives the reason as this: to see what they would do. Would they have the obedience of faith despite it appearing like He'd abandoned them and was going to let them die of thirst, or would they lose their trust?
And once you get into the obedience of faith and realize He's growing your character and endurance and the obedience of faith by what you are suffering, the next test of faith comes on another point or promise from Him.
You will not bear fruit or make disciples until you die to yourself..
Jesus in John 12.24-26
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. [SUP]25 [/SUP]He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal. [SUP]26 [/SUP]If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.
Just something to think about here....when you are busy advancing the kingdom, doctrinal debates stop.... in the real world and not internet world doctrinal debates are largely promoted by people that have no idea how to or want to advance the kingdom....these are the traditions Jesus spoke about in Mark 7...
Yeh I get that.
Dying to ones self is to decrease and allowing Jesus to increase in our lives.
As he increases we bear fruit, it's then that we make disciples becuause people see Jesus in us, not just empty words.
Galatians 5:22-26
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person’s regenerated human spirit, or works done by the Holy Spirit Himself in the believer’s life. The fruit analogy is reminiscent of Jesus’ teaching on the vine, branches, and fruitful harvest (see John 15:1–5).
5:24 Christians are spiritually “crucified with Christ” (2:20). They no longer have to follow the values or desires of the world (6:14). However, it remains difficult for Christians to apply this spiritual reality to the passions (affections) and desires (lusts) of the flesh (v. 16). Those who have mastered these sinful desires are those who have kept their focus on God (see Jer. 9:23, 24; Dan. 11:32; John 17:3; Heb. 12:1–3).
5:25, 26 In these verses, Paul exhorts the Galatians to walk in the Spirit because they are already living in the Spirit. Such an action should be natural, but unfortunately we are at war with the flesh. Walk in the Spirit means to obey the prompting of the Holy Spirit. A believer following the Spirit’s lead (v. 16) will not become conceited, provoke others, or envy others.
Dying to ones self is to decrease and allowing Jesus to increase in our lives.
As he increases we bear fruit, it's then that we make disciples becuause people see Jesus in us, not just empty words.
Galatians 5:22-26
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person’s regenerated human spirit, or works done by the Holy Spirit Himself in the believer’s life. The fruit analogy is reminiscent of Jesus’ teaching on the vine, branches, and fruitful harvest (see John 15:1–5).
5:24 Christians are spiritually “crucified with Christ” (2:20). They no longer have to follow the values or desires of the world (6:14). However, it remains difficult for Christians to apply this spiritual reality to the passions (affections) and desires (lusts) of the flesh (v. 16). Those who have mastered these sinful desires are those who have kept their focus on God (see Jer. 9:23, 24; Dan. 11:32; John 17:3; Heb. 12:1–3).
5:25, 26 In these verses, Paul exhorts the Galatians to walk in the Spirit because they are already living in the Spirit. Such an action should be natural, but unfortunately we are at war with the flesh. Walk in the Spirit means to obey the prompting of the Holy Spirit. A believer following the Spirit’s lead (v. 16) will not become conceited, provoke others, or envy others.
Just curious, could you tell me which site you got that quote from?
NNIBC - 4 Huge Portions of Commentary missing in GALATIANS - Logos ...
https://community.logos.com/forums/t/129218.aspx
Aug 20, 2016 - 15 posts - 4 authors
LOGOS - 5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, ...
REFLECTIONS OF HOLY SPIRIT PRODUCED FRUIT - LOVE IN A ...
https://www.linkedin.com/.../reflections-holy-spirit-produced-fruit-love-child-monick...
Jun 25, 2015 - SPIRIT: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the ...
Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Commentary: Spreading the Light of ...
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1418587346
Earl D. Radmacher, Ronald B. Allen, H. W. House - 1999 - Religion
5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the Holy ...
NKJV Study Bible, eBook: Full-Color Edition
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0529114410
Thomas Nelson - 2014 - Bibles
5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the Holy ...
Spirit – Overcoming The Times
https://overcomingthetimes.wordpress.com/tag/spirit/
Spirit” There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the Holy… Continue ...
Do You Possess Spiritual Fruit? – Overcoming The Times
https://overcomingthetimes.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/do-you-possess-spiritual-fruit/
Dec 11, 2016 - Spirit” There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the ...
The Fruit of the Spirit - SoundFaith
https://soundfaith.com/sermons/41697-the-fruit-of-the-spirit
Apr 14, 2008 - Nelson - 5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, ...
It might be a good idea in the future to let the readers know so they could use it.
NNIBC - 4 Huge Portions of Commentary missing in GALATIANS - Logos ...
https://community.logos.com/forums/t/129218.aspx
Aug 20, 2016 - 15 posts - 4 authors
LOGOS - 5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, ...
REFLECTIONS OF HOLY SPIRIT PRODUCED FRUIT - LOVE IN A ...
https://www.linkedin.com/.../reflections-holy-spirit-produced-fruit-love-child-monick...
Jun 25, 2015 - SPIRIT: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the ...
Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Commentary: Spreading the Light of ...
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1418587346
Earl D. Radmacher, Ronald B. Allen, H. W. House - 1999 - Religion
5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the Holy ...
NKJV Study Bible, eBook: Full-Color Edition
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0529114410
Thomas Nelson - 2014 - Bibles
5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the Holy ...
Spirit – Overcoming The Times
https://overcomingthetimes.wordpress.com/tag/spirit/
Spirit” There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the Holy… Continue ...
Do You Possess Spiritual Fruit? – Overcoming The Times
https://overcomingthetimes.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/do-you-possess-spiritual-fruit/
Dec 11, 2016 - Spirit” There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the ...
The Fruit of the Spirit - SoundFaith
https://soundfaith.com/sermons/41697-the-fruit-of-the-spirit
Apr 14, 2008 - Nelson - 5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, ...
It might be a good idea in the future to let the readers know so they could use it.
We all have a lot to learn and if ever feel we have reached the pinnacle of learning when it comes to God we have to go back to the drawing board. Alas those who are like that feel they have no need.
I think that any good work is a good work regardless of whether you are a believer or not.
There a people who are not Christians who do much greater works than those who are believers.
Some who are not believers will do it out of love, mainly though for those they love, but not their enemy.
The same I think applys to those who do it for others they don't know out of compassion (example being Grenfell towers over here) but would they do for their enemy?
Every human being has the capacity to do good works but I think the difference between believers and non believers is , have what we done is for Jesus. To me that's going beyond what we do for our brothers and sisters in Jesus but also for those are our enemies or mockers.
As a believer we aspire to be like him, for us to grow and walk with him but also to reveal Jesus so that they want them to see him and come to him.
Jesus said even sinners love those that are their own (friends, family and so on).
The Holy Spirits works are many fold.
I would say firstly we should not place works in front of faith. Faith produces work. We don't work for approval we work because we have approval.
The Holy Spirit works good in us to conform us to the image of Jesus. Which then manifests as an outworking towards others.
Lets say someone has an anger issue, the Holy Spirit works in us in that area, as anger decreases and self control increases then people will see that and therefore see Jesus in us.
To me I think about it this way.
When God calls time we all stand before him. Let's say I was standing beside Bill Gates (assuming he is not Christian) and God calls us forward and asks "Why should I let you in? All I could say is because of Jesus. I can't claim anything other than that.
Yes my works will tested but if they don't amount to much God will say "Welcome home"
Not sure if I've digressed, sorry if I have.
I think that any good work is a good work regardless of whether you are a believer or not.
There a people who are not Christians who do much greater works than those who are believers.
Some who are not believers will do it out of love, mainly though for those they love, but not their enemy.
The same I think applys to those who do it for others they don't know out of compassion (example being Grenfell towers over here) but would they do for their enemy?
Every human being has the capacity to do good works but I think the difference between believers and non believers is , have what we done is for Jesus. To me that's going beyond what we do for our brothers and sisters in Jesus but also for those are our enemies or mockers.
As a believer we aspire to be like him, for us to grow and walk with him but also to reveal Jesus so that they want them to see him and come to him.
Jesus said even sinners love those that are their own (friends, family and so on).
The Holy Spirits works are many fold.
I would say firstly we should not place works in front of faith. Faith produces work. We don't work for approval we work because we have approval.
The Holy Spirit works good in us to conform us to the image of Jesus. Which then manifests as an outworking towards others.
Lets say someone has an anger issue, the Holy Spirit works in us in that area, as anger decreases and self control increases then people will see that and therefore see Jesus in us.
To me I think about it this way.
When God calls time we all stand before him. Let's say I was standing beside Bill Gates (assuming he is not Christian) and God calls us forward and asks "Why should I let you in? All I could say is because of Jesus. I can't claim anything other than that.
Yes my works will tested but if they don't amount to much God will say "Welcome home"
Not sure if I've digressed, sorry if I have.
Just curious, could you tell me which site you got that quote from?
NNIBC - 4 Huge Portions of Commentary missing in GALATIANS - Logos ...
https://community.logos.com/forums/t/129218.aspx
Aug 20, 2016 - 15 posts - 4 authors
LOGOS - 5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, ...
REFLECTIONS OF HOLY SPIRIT PRODUCED FRUIT - LOVE IN A ...
https://www.linkedin.com/.../reflections-holy-spirit-produced-fruit-love-child-monick...
Jun 25, 2015 - SPIRIT: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the ...
Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Commentary: Spreading the Light of ...
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1418587346
Earl D. Radmacher, Ronald B. Allen, H. W. House - 1999 - Religion
5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the Holy ...
NKJV Study Bible, eBook: Full-Color Edition
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0529114410
Thomas Nelson - 2014 - Bibles
5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the Holy ...
Spirit – Overcoming The Times
https://overcomingthetimes.wordpress.com/tag/spirit/
Spirit” There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the Holy… Continue ...
Do You Possess Spiritual Fruit? – Overcoming The Times
https://overcomingthetimes.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/do-you-possess-spiritual-fruit/
Dec 11, 2016 - Spirit” There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the ...
The Fruit of the Spirit - SoundFaith
https://soundfaith.com/sermons/41697-the-fruit-of-the-spirit
Apr 14, 2008 - Nelson - 5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, ...
It might be a good idea in the future to let the readers know so they could use it.
NNIBC - 4 Huge Portions of Commentary missing in GALATIANS - Logos ...
https://community.logos.com/forums/t/129218.aspx
Aug 20, 2016 - 15 posts - 4 authors
LOGOS - 5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, ...
REFLECTIONS OF HOLY SPIRIT PRODUCED FRUIT - LOVE IN A ...
https://www.linkedin.com/.../reflections-holy-spirit-produced-fruit-love-child-monick...
Jun 25, 2015 - SPIRIT: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the ...
Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Commentary: Spreading the Light of ...
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1418587346
Earl D. Radmacher, Ronald B. Allen, H. W. House - 1999 - Religion
5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the Holy ...
NKJV Study Bible, eBook: Full-Color Edition
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0529114410
Thomas Nelson - 2014 - Bibles
5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the Holy ...
Spirit – Overcoming The Times
https://overcomingthetimes.wordpress.com/tag/spirit/
Spirit” There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the Holy… Continue ...
Do You Possess Spiritual Fruit? – Overcoming The Times
https://overcomingthetimes.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/do-you-possess-spiritual-fruit/
Dec 11, 2016 - Spirit” There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, or works done by the ...
The Fruit of the Spirit - SoundFaith
https://soundfaith.com/sermons/41697-the-fruit-of-the-spirit
Apr 14, 2008 - Nelson - 5:22, 23 Spirit: There is a question here whether Paul means specifically the works done by a person's regenerated human spirit, ...
It might be a good idea in the future to let the readers know so they could use it.
The first paragraph was my own.
The bible verses were from the NKJV
and the last were the NKJV bible study notes.
I didn't notice that the ref wasn't copied over. I have just bought a new iPad and had to set up my bible app again.
On my previous iPad It was set up to do that.
Having said that given what you say I agree, I should have made sure that the ref was made.
But I would also say it would have been nice if you had asked did I get that from a website or was it from a study bible.
Your posts of websites seems to start with 22:23 yet what I posted only started at v23.
I must say though that In the past when I have actually posted something from a website verbatim I have posted the link.
Light is simply the absence of darkness....chew on that one for a while light also has different colored spectrum in it...
light also has different colored spectrum in it...
Rainbow huh? hmmm...All colors or different shades of 1? Do I think too much? or is there something in this?
D
When I was a little kid, I wanted to be just like Daddy. I put on his shoes (when he wasn't around to stop me), begged him to take me fishing, until he did, (one hand on his fishing pole, the other hand on my paint waist to hold on while I puked into the bay), and wanted to be just like him when I grew up.
I've grown up. And in the process of growing up, I see Dad's flaws.
Now I want to be just like Abba. And I want all of us to enjoy him together. I long for the day when we will be, because Abba Daddy has big shoes, and I see where I fall short.
I've grown up. And in the process of growing up, I see Dad's flaws.
Now I want to be just like Abba. And I want all of us to enjoy him together. I long for the day when we will be, because Abba Daddy has big shoes, and I see where I fall short.
D
Parts of me are still trying to shut the closet door so that light doesn't come in and find me doing what he doesn't want me doing.
Kind of stupid since where can I hide from him?
Really stupid, because every time he lifts darkness off me, it feels better. Like getting the sand-out-of swimming-suits better.
Kind of stupid since where can I hide from him?
Really stupid, because every time he lifts darkness off me, it feels better. Like getting the sand-out-of swimming-suits better.
D
Or... how about just going with you led the horse to water, now it's up to God to decide if he wants the horse drinking?
Because as often as you call sin "sin," has your approach worked?
Honestly? I'm not into by works/by grace at all. I think it's "C. None of the above."
Instead it's "1. By God and God alone, so get excited and join in the grace and work. Not because either saves you. Only God saves. But because God wants us to enjoy both and to grow in the process toward him."
And yet, that answer doesn't really seem to fit into the test.
Because as often as you call sin "sin," has your approach worked?
Honestly? I'm not into by works/by grace at all. I think it's "C. None of the above."
Instead it's "1. By God and God alone, so get excited and join in the grace and work. Not because either saves you. Only God saves. But because God wants us to enjoy both and to grow in the process toward him."
And yet, that answer doesn't really seem to fit into the test.
D
Umm, the dividing line is still light and dark.
Whole purpose of this was to put in context. Light = God. Darkness = anything but God.
It seems everyone wants me to tell them if their topic is sin. I've got no idea. Feels that way often enough. I suspect it is that way often enough, but the whole purpose was to judge ourselves. Our light levels. Not everyone else's.
And in checking out my own light levels, I know who I cannot follow. I cannot follow because "hypocrite" is one of my stumbling blocks. I'm very good at it, and don't want to be. Soooo, back to checking out light levels.
Whole purpose of this was to put in context. Light = God. Darkness = anything but God.
It seems everyone wants me to tell them if their topic is sin. I've got no idea. Feels that way often enough. I suspect it is that way often enough, but the whole purpose was to judge ourselves. Our light levels. Not everyone else's.
And in checking out my own light levels, I know who I cannot follow. I cannot follow because "hypocrite" is one of my stumbling blocks. I'm very good at it, and don't want to be. Soooo, back to checking out light levels.