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D
I would like some scriptual references that CLEARLY shows that God is more than one person. The Trinity Doctrine is that The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, are three co-eternal, co-existent, co-equal beings. There is no solid evidence to this in the Bible. However there are many places that clearly says. That God is ONE. Not two, not three. Our God is a jelous God is he not? He doesn't want to share his Glory with anyone but himself, am I correct? So if God is three co-eternal, co-existent, co-equal beings, then wouldn't he have to share his Glory?
Father, Son and Holy Ghost are different relationships or forms. I have a Body, Soul, and Spirit. But does that mean that they are three separate entities? No. They are all apart of me. For I am one person, and I am made in God's image.
Father, Son and Holy Ghost are different relationships or forms. I have a Body, Soul, and Spirit. But does that mean that they are three separate entities? No. They are all apart of me. For I am one person, and I am made in God's image.
J
Exactly, the bible said that Jesus is the Christ of God
God is the first and the last but the bible says Jesus is the first and the last.
God is Faithful but Jesus had been call Faithful
The bible make it clear that you should have no other gods before me but yet you serve and worship Jesus.There only one God, not two.
The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ’Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
It should be evident that God is more than one person when we read how Jesus at his baptism, God spoke to him from heaven, the Spirit rested upon him like a dove. We see all three separate deities acting in the same event. Otherwise it would read "and Jesus spoke to himself from heaven and he came and rested upon himself like a dove". For me it's a no-brainer.
Regarding His glory, that is in the sense of worshipping other gods, false gods.
The bible does say Christ shares the Father's glory:
Joh 17:5 And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
The bible also says Christ receives glory from the Father. Christ the lamb, is worthy to receive glory (Rev 5:12).
The Father is called God. The Son is called God. The Spirit is called God. So we have three entities called God, who act in divine unison and oneness, and as a whole constitute "one God".
Regarding His glory, that is in the sense of worshipping other gods, false gods.
The bible does say Christ shares the Father's glory:
Joh 17:5 And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
The bible also says Christ receives glory from the Father. Christ the lamb, is worthy to receive glory (Rev 5:12).
The Father is called God. The Son is called God. The Spirit is called God. So we have three entities called God, who act in divine unison and oneness, and as a whole constitute "one God".
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D
God is not a name but a position. Like president. Jesus however is a name, and the name of the Father is Jesus, the name of the Son is Jesus, and the name of the Holy Ghost is Jesus. All of these Roles (father, son, holy ghost) are one person, and that one person is God.
Not everything in the Bible is to make sense, at this point in time, I can't answer why he heard a voice from Heaven, besides the fact that God is omnipresent, meaning he is everywheres at all times, which would conclude that he is able to be here on Earth, and in Heaven at the very same time.
I think we forget sometimes that God exists outside of Time Space and Matter. He created it. He is able to do all things. So wouldn't he be able to talk to himself from 2 places at once? Possibly so others would know who he was?
I think it is blatently clear. Even my 8 year old sister understands that God is One and not three or two.
I suggest you watch the Oneness VS Trinity Debate on youtube with Dr. David K. Bernard. It may shed some light on the subject that I can not at this time. Pray that God will reveal himself to you as he would have you understand it. Set aside your beliefs and understanding and ask God to teach you, as it is him whom we must obey. He is our everything.
Not everything in the Bible is to make sense, at this point in time, I can't answer why he heard a voice from Heaven, besides the fact that God is omnipresent, meaning he is everywheres at all times, which would conclude that he is able to be here on Earth, and in Heaven at the very same time.
I think we forget sometimes that God exists outside of Time Space and Matter. He created it. He is able to do all things. So wouldn't he be able to talk to himself from 2 places at once? Possibly so others would know who he was?
I think it is blatently clear. Even my 8 year old sister understands that God is One and not three or two.
I suggest you watch the Oneness VS Trinity Debate on youtube with Dr. David K. Bernard. It may shed some light on the subject that I can not at this time. Pray that God will reveal himself to you as he would have you understand it. Set aside your beliefs and understanding and ask God to teach you, as it is him whom we must obey. He is our everything.
1
Let me first say that prayer and fasting are first and foremost admission of weakness not power or control. I don't mean this in a derogatory sense. When faced with trial or difficulty the call throughout God's Word is to humble yourselves and pray. Praying and fasting is the way by which we humble ourselves and even further weaken ourselves while we wait for him who lifts up the weak. Sometimes we pray for help but if truth be known we feel pretty confident about working through the issue. In a real sense we are not depending on God. In fasting, we call ourselves to not only lip service but experience and express our neediness. Prayer then for strength to overcome means something more as one struggles with physical frailty and in a sense we have our bodies preaching to us our need.
So in a sense we may say that we pray and fast to overcome (big picture) trials as long as we don't miss the point that what we are really doing is actively demonstrating whether in fasting or prayer that God is able to act on our behalf where we are not.
Kind of like - God can't be three in one because we can't fathom it and if we can't fathom it then it must not be so.
In any case, I encourage you to keep pursuing your oneness theology. What I have heard thus far is the semantics of names and roles, but as you face harder challenges/debates you will be faced with tinkering with the nature of Christ and his death. And on that note, I think their should be caution.
Until then if you confess that God died on the cross for your sins, I will call you brother and say peace.
So in a sense we may say that we pray and fast to overcome (big picture) trials as long as we don't miss the point that what we are really doing is actively demonstrating whether in fasting or prayer that God is able to act on our behalf where we are not.
Kind of like - God can't be three in one because we can't fathom it and if we can't fathom it then it must not be so.
In any case, I encourage you to keep pursuing your oneness theology. What I have heard thus far is the semantics of names and roles, but as you face harder challenges/debates you will be faced with tinkering with the nature of Christ and his death. And on that note, I think their should be caution.
Until then if you confess that God died on the cross for your sins, I will call you brother and say peace.
1
Thanks. I'll look at it.
May I also suggest E. Calvin Beisner's book, Jesus Only Churches, Zondervan publishing house. It is not long (87 pages), and I think it takes an honest look at this issue, being careful not to make straw men of the oneness movement. And if the conversations I have encountered over the years on this site have been an indication, I think he makes as strong, if not stronger, case for oneness before he attempts to rebut it.
May I also suggest E. Calvin Beisner's book, Jesus Only Churches, Zondervan publishing house. It is not long (87 pages), and I think it takes an honest look at this issue, being careful not to make straw men of the oneness movement. And if the conversations I have encountered over the years on this site have been an indication, I think he makes as strong, if not stronger, case for oneness before he attempts to rebut it.
S
Here is a debate for anyone who is really interested in the subject, it's very educational.
It's about 2 hours long though
, I recommend watching the first 10 minutes (if you are interested in watching it at all), and if it catches your interest then continue on.
They pretty much lay out both sides and you decide for yourself which is more biblical.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_OYdHfdbbo&feature=fvw[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL4iz6nPvQs&feature=related[/video]
It's about 2 hours long though
, I recommend watching the first 10 minutes (if you are interested in watching it at all), and if it catches your interest then continue on. They pretty much lay out both sides and you decide for yourself which is more biblical.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_OYdHfdbbo&feature=fvw[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL4iz6nPvQs&feature=related[/video]
Can you give me one scripture in the nt that directly says. 'Jesus is God the Father?
Not a scipture where you believe it infers Jesus is God the Father, but one where Jesus directly says, 'I am God the Father, or any New Testament writer actually says those words?
I can quote many verses that prove Jesus is not God the Father.
S
You guys are very confused and Jesus is not the author of confusion. The day I accepted Christ, the Lord made known to me He was God. There wasn't and if or but, I just knew. So I don't understand why you guys are still on this spiritual level. Didn't Apostle Paul said, GROW UP, not in an offensive terms. But Grow up as in, spiritual we need to grow up. We're still babes needing milk and God would rather feed us meat. So lets start taking in meat.
1. There's hundreds of Biblical truth that shows Jesus is GOD.
1 John "For there are three that bear record in heaven; God the Father, God the Word, and God the Holy Ghost, and these three are ONE.
2. Genesis 1:26 "Lets create man in OUR image." You are created in God's image. Who image you think that is? hint: Jesus.
3. The Word God in hebrew is Elohim. God has many different names, but lets talk about Elohim. Elohim is not singular, it is plural. You see, when they translated the word Elohim, there wasn't a way to make it plural, it was just you had to understand the word God is plural, but in the sense, 1.
4. We all believe God was talking to Moses when He told Moses to tell His people, that he is the great I AM.
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? (John 8:57 KJV)
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. (John 8:58)
5. We all know Jesus is born of a virgin birth. What woman can have child without having a partner? Jesus was born of a virgin birth, conceived of the Holy Ghost. Fully man, and Fully God.
6. For all have sin and come short of the glory of God. Roms. 3:26
Jesus is perfect. What man do you know who is perfect without sins? Bible tells me every MAN is a sinner. Unless He was God, then he isn't perfect. Jesus is perfect, only God is perfect. Am I getting somebody attention here?
7. There's 3 distinctive person in the Godhead, but there is one God. God the Father is a separate person from the Son, and is a separate person from the Holy Ghost, but they are 1. One God. How can that be? I don't know, I just believe what the Bible says. And the Bible says Jesus is Lord. And there's no other name under heaven in which men should be saved by, but by the name JESUS.
8. If you still have a hard time, I urge you to do this, PRAY and ASK THE LORD YOURSELF. For some reason, we want other people opinion, and other people advices, but you won't go to God. Don't you know you have permission, access, to prayers, to go to God yourself now? This is what our Lord did for us, so use what you have. Go and ask the Lord for the answer. If you just want to debate, don't you wont get it out of me, cause I won't answer you. But if you really are seeking to know the truth, then Jesus got the answer. Don't be afraid to go to your Father to ask Him, for He cares for ALL your worries.
1. There's hundreds of Biblical truth that shows Jesus is GOD.
1 John "For there are three that bear record in heaven; God the Father, God the Word, and God the Holy Ghost, and these three are ONE.
2. Genesis 1:26 "Lets create man in OUR image." You are created in God's image. Who image you think that is? hint: Jesus.
3. The Word God in hebrew is Elohim. God has many different names, but lets talk about Elohim. Elohim is not singular, it is plural. You see, when they translated the word Elohim, there wasn't a way to make it plural, it was just you had to understand the word God is plural, but in the sense, 1.
4. We all believe God was talking to Moses when He told Moses to tell His people, that he is the great I AM.
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? (John 8:57 KJV)
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. (John 8:58)
5. We all know Jesus is born of a virgin birth. What woman can have child without having a partner? Jesus was born of a virgin birth, conceived of the Holy Ghost. Fully man, and Fully God.
6. For all have sin and come short of the glory of God. Roms. 3:26
Jesus is perfect. What man do you know who is perfect without sins? Bible tells me every MAN is a sinner. Unless He was God, then he isn't perfect. Jesus is perfect, only God is perfect. Am I getting somebody attention here?
7. There's 3 distinctive person in the Godhead, but there is one God. God the Father is a separate person from the Son, and is a separate person from the Holy Ghost, but they are 1. One God. How can that be? I don't know, I just believe what the Bible says. And the Bible says Jesus is Lord. And there's no other name under heaven in which men should be saved by, but by the name JESUS.
8. If you still have a hard time, I urge you to do this, PRAY and ASK THE LORD YOURSELF. For some reason, we want other people opinion, and other people advices, but you won't go to God. Don't you know you have permission, access, to prayers, to go to God yourself now? This is what our Lord did for us, so use what you have. Go and ask the Lord for the answer. If you just want to debate, don't you wont get it out of me, cause I won't answer you. But if you really are seeking to know the truth, then Jesus got the answer. Don't be afraid to go to your Father to ask Him, for He cares for ALL your worries.
Well I cannot say I much disagree with what you have written, but I do believe that if people say Jesus is God, without qualifying that by adding Jesus is not God the Father(as you have) it is a terribly misleading statement. Scripture says that Jesus will be subject to God the Father, and Jesus said that God the Father was the only true God. To simply say Jesus is God full stop gives a misinterpretation to what is actually written in the Bible
Personally I like the view that says it is an equal trinity but with a heirarchy with God the Father at the head. But I agree none of us know exactly how the mechanisms of this work out, we never will as humans
Personally I like the view that says it is an equal trinity but with a heirarchy with God the Father at the head. But I agree none of us know exactly how the mechanisms of this work out, we never will as humans
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J
Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
If Jesus wasn't the Father, wouldn't he say " Let the little children come to the Father?" Since we are the children of God? Again, Jesus said "Let the little children come to me" By saying this, Jesus is claiming to be the Father. Also Jesus said "I and the Father are one" Again, Jesus claiming to be the Father.
Plus, in John 14:10
Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
Jesus is again claiming to be the Father
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I did ask for a direct Biblical quote where it says Jesus is God the Father, not human interpretation of certain verses.
On the previous page I have written out 1Cor15:24-28. Can you tell me if from these five comntinual verses Paul is stating that Jesus is God the Father now in Heaven? I would ask eat that scripture is not bent. I am not saying you would but I have found many are prepared to bend scripture, in an effort to prove they are right.
In Hebrews1:8-10 God the Father is speaking, he gives Jesus the name God, but He still says he is Jesus God. These are direct quotes which need no human interpretation.
On the previous page I have written out 1Cor15:24-28. Can you tell me if from these five comntinual verses Paul is stating that Jesus is God the Father now in Heaven? I would ask eat that scripture is not bent. I am not saying you would but I have found many are prepared to bend scripture, in an effort to prove they are right.
In Hebrews1:8-10 God the Father is speaking, he gives Jesus the name God, but He still says he is Jesus God. These are direct quotes which need no human interpretation.