Turning From Sin = Repentance?

[Grace777x70]

To keep the slander and false accusations down to a minimum about Jesus being my Lord and Savior - I will post this again about my Lord Jesus Christ and how I look at sin.

Here is what I do when I sin..

I love to kneel quickly and tell my Father how I trust in Him..how what I did was wrong...sometimes I use the word sin...sometimes I don't...I think that is irrelevant.

I run to my Father and tell Him how that His Son..my Lord is my life...my righteousness,..Jesus' Blood has secured my redemption and forgiveness of sins....I confess what God says about me...I tell Him I love Him and trust in Him...

I have not asked for forgiveness in order to be forgiven for quite some time now because I believe the gospel message that the blood of Jesus has obtained forgiveness for me...but I always talk with my Lord about what I do or don't do...

You know ...He always loves on me and tells me He loves me and that He is my life and strength. Sometimes I have felt a warm liquid like feeling of pure love fall on me and I just sit there in His presence and weep. I can't move a muscle. He is so mighty in power yet His love and total acceptance is the most overwhelming aspect of His presence.


To me all sin is relational. All sin is a failure to see the life of Christ in me. I am ignorant of His life in me. To me most outward sin is just a "fruit" of the real sin.

For example - If I steal something - that is a sin but the real sin behind that is the failure to recognize my Father will take care of me. I am operating in the flesh. I want to take things into my own hand and "do" things.

The other part is when you see how horrid it really is when we mess up....sin....transgress.... whatever term you want to use.

..what I see is my unbelief in the goodness and love of my Father and Lord Jesus for me. That is the horrid part because I know that is not Their character nor is it really my true nature now and what He has made me in Christ.

 

[Cee]

I bow to Jesus.
I bow to my Lord.
I love others as He commanded me to do.
But I don't believe it keeps me saved.
I believe because I am saved.
I am forgiven.
And because I am forgiven.
I know His love.
And because I know His love.
I can love others as He commanded me to do.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

I must respectfully disagree with a part of your post. Mental illness is most assuredly NOT a consequence of your sin.

Most mental illness is related to the demon of double mindedness. The scripture says, "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." James 1:8

 

[Galatea]

Most mental illness is related to the demon of double mindedness. The scripture says, "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." James 1:8

I disagree with you. I do not believe double mindedness means mental illness. James 4:8 "Draw nigh to God and He will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded." Double minded is being worldly as well as being a believer.

Mental illness has physical causes, imbalances in chemicals in the brain or structural abnormalities. Schizophrenics and people with Alzheimer's disease actually have cavities in their brains that can be detected by ct scans. There is a wealth of information about the physical causes of mental illness. It is a horribly cruel thing to say that these suffering people are suffering due to their personal sins. Spurgeon, the prince of preachers, battled depression his entire life. I hope you are not insinuating that Spurgeon was demon possessed or oppressed.

 

[PeterJens]

Let us put all of this thread into context.

Jesus and the cross was the sign of Jonah.
Jonah was Gods message to Nineveh to repent of their sin or face judgement.
Jonah was in a fish for 3 days, scarred and carrying the signs, as testimony to
Gods intentions.

Nineveh repented in sackcloth and ashes.

This was Christ affirmation of repentance, of turning from sin and walking in Gods
ways.

To preach against this is heresy.

We are called to turn from sin and walk in righteousness, doing the right thing.

Some are so deluded they take the positive statements of scripture and ignore those
which show them they are wrong. There is no hope for them, and they will not be held
innocent.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

I disagree with you. I do not believe double mindedness means mental illness. James 4:8 "Draw nigh to God and He will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded." Double minded is being worldly as well as being a believer.

Mental illness has physical causes, imbalances in chemicals in the brain or structural abnormalities. Schizophrenics and people with Alzheimer's disease actually have cavities in their brains that can be detected by ct scans. There is a wealth of information about the physical causes of mental illness. It is a horribly cruel thing to say that these suffering people are suffering due to their personal sins. Spurgeon, the prince of preachers, battled depression his entire life. I hope you are not insinuating that Spurgeon was demon possessed or oppressed.

The bible says our souls are wounded through sin and trauma (tragedies). A wounded soul gives the demonic the legal right for access to your soul to make war with us because you share things that are in common with that demon spirit(s).

Many Christians are living under a great depression. If they were to tell you their stories, it will all end the same way...life has not been fair. Just so you know that you're not alone. The bible is full of men and women who became discourage.

Job said, "Better is the day of my death then the day of my birth." Jonah ask God to kill him because he was so depressed and discourage. Moses windup wondering in a wilderness tending sheep for forty years when he was raised to be a Pharaoh. Even the Great Apostle Paul says, "I was down to the point of death." So even the great names in the bible had a battle with depression. If you read the Psalms you'll see David say over and over and over again, "Oh my soul - why are you so disturbed within me.

And if you have not experience depression keep on living. Life has a way of showing up and showing out. It is doing this time Christians must draw near with full confidence to Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

For example - If I steal something - that is a sin but the real sin behind that is the failure to recognize my Father will take care of me. I am operating in the flesh. I want to take things into my own hand and "do" things.

The above is hyper legalism at work. Sin is not the sinful act, but the sin of
a wrong attitude. So though His people walk in righteousness they sin constantly,
so can never fulfill the goal of walking as Christ did.

This is a lie of the enemy, saying the Lord does not count you as washed and clean,
but continually finds fault where there is none.

Listen to the enemies argument against Job. His praise of you Lord is just because he is blessed
so much, he is really sinning against you, it is all a lie.

So subtle is the enemy, he will dresses someone up as a believer and then delivers condemnation
in the core of their message and many will drink this poison, declaring themselves as lost and
hopeless when Christ wants only to encourage and uplift them in their walk.

Gods people are holy, pure, clean, washed and working for the Kingdom, His precious bride,
pure, spotless and whole.

 

[gb9]

The above is hyper legalism at work. Sin is not the sinful act, but the sin of
a wrong attitude. So though His people walk in righteousness they sin constantly,
so can never fulfill the goal of walking as Christ did.

This is a lie of the enemy, saying the Lord does not count you as washed and clean,
but continually finds fault where there is none.

Listen to the enemies argument against Job. His praise of you Lord is just because he is blessed
so much, he is really sinning against you, it is all a lie.

So subtle is the enemy, he will dresses someone up as a believer and then delivers condemnation
in the core of their message and many will drink this poison, declaring themselves as lost and
hopeless when Christ wants only to encourage and uplift them in their walk.

Gods people are holy, pure, clean, washed and working for the Kingdom, His precious bride,
pure, spotless and whole.

the 4th paragraph is true. now, we have to be careful to not say that " sin does not matter", that is wrong. we also cannot say that once one comes to Christ, they never sin again, that too is wrong.

we have to have balance that fact that while our goal everyday should be not to sin, we sometimes fall short of that goal. that is the truth that every believer should have.

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by PeterJens

The above is hyper legalism at work. Sin is not the sinful act, but the sin of
a wrong attitude. So though His people walk in righteousness they sin constantly,
so can never fulfill the goal of walking as Christ did.

This is a lie of the enemy, saying the Lord does not count you as washed and clean,
but continually finds fault where there is none.

Listen to the enemies argument against Job. His praise of you Lord is just because he is blessed
so much, he is really sinning against you, it is all a lie.

So subtle is the enemy, he will dresses someone up as a believer and then delivers condemnation
in the core of their message and many will drink this poison, declaring themselves as lost and
hopeless when Christ wants only to encourage and uplift them in their walk.

Gods people are holy, pure, clean, washed and working for the Kingdom, His precious bride,
pure, spotless and whole.

the 4th paragraph is true. now, we have to be careful to not say that " sin does not matter", that is wrong. we also cannot say that once one comes to Christ, they never sin again, that too is wrong.

we have to have balance that fact that while our goal everyday should be not to sin, we sometimes fall short of that goal. that is the truth that every believer should have.

I wonder if malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ is "hyper-legalism" too? They are in the same list as living the homosexual lifestyle - all of these exhibit the lack of trust in the Lord Himself and I believe that is what the Lord is showing us by His Spirit. He can be trusted and He is faithful to all of us.

To me the real sin that the Lord talks about a lot - is the sin of unbelief in Him and His true nature and character. Not knowing the Lord for who He truly is causes us to rely on our flesh and self-works for our life and living and we can try to "pretty it up with Christianeze talk". This is contrary to the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.


Religion will always be a very poor substitute for knowing our good , loving Father and Lord for who they truly are.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Originally Posted by PeterJens

The above is hyper legalism at work. Sin is not the sinful act, but the sin of
a wrong attitude. So though His people walk in righteousness they sin constantly,
so can never fulfill the goal of walking as Christ did.

This is a lie of the enemy, saying the Lord does not count you as washed and clean,
but continually finds fault where there is none.

Listen to the enemies argument against Job. His praise of you Lord is just because he is blessed
so much, he is really sinning against you, it is all a lie.

So subtle is the enemy, he will dresses someone up as a believer and then delivers condemnation
in the core of their message and many will drink this poison, declaring themselves as lost and
hopeless when Christ wants only to encourage and uplift them in their walk.

Gods people are holy, pure, clean, washed and working for the Kingdom, His precious bride,
pure, spotless and whole.



I wonder if malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ is "hyper-legalism" too? They are in the same list as living the homosexual lifestyle - all of these exhibit the lack of trust in the Lord Himself and I believe that is what the Lord is showing us by His Spirit. He can be trusted and He is faithful to all of us.

To me the real sin that the Lord talks about a lot - is the sin of unbelief in Him and His true nature and character. Not knowing the Lord for who He truly is causes us to rely on our flesh and self-works for our life and living and we can try to "pretty it up with Christianeze talk". This is contrary to the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.


Religion will always be a very poor substitute for knowing our good , loving Father and Lord for who they truly are.

from hyper grace to hyper legalism. sometimes I just have to laugh..

 

[Grace777x70]

from hyper grace to hyper legalism. sometimes I just have to laugh..

LOL..I know...it's funny!

Thank God that He grants us "hyper-repenting". That is my favorite one and it is a true blessing from our Lord.

 

[PeterJens]

My friends

Those who are blind do not see, because their sight is somewhere else.
When Christ went to the cross, He went to the cross for those who know love is the
way to life, but see no hope in this world.

The cross blazes a light strong and pure, out into eternity. When it possess your
soul all other things fade into shadows.

So those who do not have this, it is just words written here.
When the pharisees saw people repenting and walking in righteousness, speaking the
truth and living in community, did it change them? No.

They were just more determined to crush this movement, because it was something
they neither understood or experienced.

If they echoed the words of Peter about sin, love and justice, they would have become
believers and joined the fellowship. So it is obvious on which side of the fence people
fall, just by looking at their words, the fruit of their hearts.

I remember reading a believer saying why did Jesus die upon the cross, it could have been
anywhere at any time. Walking with Jesus and lostness are not obvious necessarily.

So I do not expect anything more than a reflection of peoples hearts expressed here.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1. Hyper-legalism - Legalism on steroids - Would be someone who teaches sinless perfectionism, ie, You are not "saved" until you reach the point of which you no longer sin,

2. Who did Jesus come to die for? The world His enemy, The ones he loved,, (while we were yet enemies, Christ died for us)
If Jesus JUST died for those who know love is the way, he would never have died, because no one, and I do mean NO ONE, would ever be saved. why? Because we love because HE FIRST LOVED US... we can not even have the CAPACITY to love, or know that is the way to blessings UNTIL we are first saved, a non believer can not understand this, IT IS FOOLISHNESS TO HIM (the things of God)

 

[PeterJens]

Are we victims of our own theology

Theology can make enemies of the wrong people, and cause condemnation of things
that are not the problem.

It is our inability to do that which is good and right, which defines our need and our
fellowship with the Lord.

One thing that has stuck with me, is a good teacher encourages that which is good,
and discourages obvious failure, but never gets hyper-critical, raising the target always
out of reach, because this creates a sense of failure and alienation.

Jesus in becoming a man, walking with us, having disciples and walking in purity and holiness,
showed though we exclude ourselves all the time, He does not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"WE ARE victims of our own theology"

A big amen to that, Theology causes us to close our minds, to think people believes things which they do not, To be followers of men and not followers of God (even if we have parts of our theology that are right) and makes us say and do things which are nonsensical to everyone by yourself and those who are like us (ie act as a group, and are blind to the things we do and believe and say which are nonsensical)

 

[PeterJens]

Legalism - the defining of rules, interpreting the rules to the letter of the law.
Hyper-legalism - extending the rules, to sub principles, which make the rules more extensive and
difficult than the original words that they imply.

So "Do not murder" becomes, do not upset, cause offence, be negative about, cause their reputation
to be brought down, whether true or not. So only upbuilding things have to be said, and evil is defined
as anything that causes harm emotionally or otherwise, as defined by the hearer.

Islam does this and socially creates a group who are ruled by the corrupt and evil who exploit
condemnation of truth in preference for not upsetting people, which means they can do what they
like and no one can criticise it. It literally destroys communities, because nothing can relied upon,
and those who have no limits of behaviour but are good at hiding evil prosper and destroy any opposition.

But those who have not seen this in action, are probably completely blind to these realities.

 

[Grace777x70]

I wonder if the Lord would be called a "hyper-legalist" by some of us if He showed what real sin is?

Personally I love how the Lord elevated the Law to reveal the true intent of the Law to expose our real need of Him as Savior and Lord.


Matthew 5:21-22 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.'

[SUP]22 [/SUP] "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.


Matthew 5:27-28 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';

[SUP]28 [/SUP] but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


Matthew 5:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'

[SUP]39 [/SUP] "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Legalism - the defining of rules, interpreting the rules to the letter of the law.

Wrong, Legalism is making rules and regulation a means of attaining salvation. If salvation is not in context, (ie salvation can not be lost if we do not live up to these guidelines) it is not legalism.

Hyper-legalism - extending the rules, to sub principles, which make the rules more extensive and
difficult than the original words that they imply.

Only if they make "achieving eternal life" more difficult. The most extreme hyper legalist would again, say one must be perfect according to their guidelines in order to be saved.

 

[PeterJens]

I fear people are appropriating words and then putting it into only one context.

To be legalistic is to look at the exact wording of a law or contract. It does not relate
to salvation or anything necessarily, it is an attitude to law and words.

Hyper-legalism - is what the pharisees did with many points of the law. A days work is
defined as walking a particular distance, because there needs to be a divide between
what is work and what is just living. A divide in this area would be saying you cannot
switch a light on, but someone else can, and it is not work for you.

Now one can obviously make the words mean whatever you like, but I am connecting
certain behaviours to commenly used words and expanding their meanings to cover this.

I find it odd to be called wrong, because this is not really a wrong or right point, it is
defining my words. I do this to explain the point I am making.

But then this is typical of a spirit of confrontation rather than discussion. And so I refer
back to my earlier comments on insight and approach. We can never meet if our hearts are
so far apart.

Jesus was very aware of there realities. cc has certainly brought it to light for me.

So God bless you and Praise the Lord for His salvation through the Cross.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To be legalistic is to look at the exact wording of a law or contract. It does not relate
to salvation or anything necessarily, it is an attitude to law and words.

That is not true. Legalism has everything to do with salvation, Pharisees were legalists because they rejected Grace and thought they earned their right to salvation by being obedient to Gods laws.

Modern day legalists are legalists because they reject grace and claim salvation is earned, Kept, or not lost by being obedient to Gods laws.

legalism is the same in Christs day is it is today.

while I agree all the added laws to Gods law shows hyper-legalism It is legalism BECAUSE salvation was based on how well you followed those man made laws.

if I say you shall not drink smoke or cuss, and if you do you are not saved, or are at risk to losing your salvation if you do, (I have heard both of these from the different churches) you are a legalist

If I say you should not drink smoke or cuss, because they are bad for you, and harmful, I will help you quite, but I will not judge you, because I have my own sin issues (let he who has no sin) then I am not a legalist. I am trying to help a brother or sister out with what I consider to be a sin issue. (whether it is a sin issue or not)