What about things the Bible is just wrong about?

[giantone]

of the ends of In Job 38:13

kanaph -- pronounced: kaw-nawf'

from 3670; an edge or extremity; specifically (of a bird or army) a wing, (of a garment or bed-clothing) a flap, (of the earth) a quarter, (of a building) a pinnacle: KJV -- + bird, border, corner, end, feather(-ed), X flying, + (one an-)other, overspreading, X quarters, skirt, X sort, uttermost part, wing((-ed)).

See Hebrew No. 3670 <H3670>

kanaph -- pronounced: kaw-naf'

a primitive root; properly, to project laterally, i.e. probably (reflexive) to withdraw: KJV -- be removed.

 

[jimmydiggs]

This isn't even about all the moral and ethical atrocities that the OT God ordered to be committed, this is just about statements of fact that are just flat out wrong.

Assuming you are an atheist, you reject God. To reject God by proxy you reject that there is an Objective moral standard. As such, you cannot even begin to condemn the bible for supposed moral and ethical atrocities. The biggest problem I see with Dictionary Atheism, is that those who adhere to it remain Philosophically inconsistant.

Whales being fish

The defining of Fish is based on Taxonomy. Many questions like this can easily be dealt with. So I have a question for you. When did the current Taxonomic systems come to existance?

the Earth being a flat disc

Does the bible really say it is a disc?

the moon emitting it's own light.

Have you ever said, "sunset/sunrise?" Do you know that the sun doesn't set nor rise? Generally when we speak of these issues, they are rather geo-centric in nature.

To us, the moon does give light upon the Earth. The fact that it does so by reflection rather than emission is not relevant to the biblical passage. The Hebrew word used for emit/give light in this verse ('owr) can mean both “to be or become light” and “to be illuminated or become lighted up” (Strong’s 0215).1 To demonstrate this word picture, imagine that someone uses a mirror to reflect light in your eyes. The ultimate source of the light is not the mirror, but the mirror appears bright to you because you’re on the receiving end of the reflection.

Taking this verse out of context can make it seem inaccurate, but when we step back (cf. Genesis 1:14–18), we understand more about the purpose of this passage. Other than providing light, God created the sun and moon to mark the seasons, days, and years, which they do quite well. Notice that the Bible does not provide detailed schematics and charts on how this works, since God gave humans the ability to discover these through observational science. The purpose here is not to explain all the details (though it is factually accurate and not a simplified metaphor for “primitive humans”); the purpose is to give an overview and the reasons why God did what He did. Thus, the description of the moon as giving light is not detailed, but it is quite accurate.

Ultimately, the Bible does not say that the moon emits light. Only that it is to give light upon the Earth—which it does by reflection.2
Contradictions: By the Light of the Moon - Answers in Genesis <--- click

One of the things we have to remember is the type of writing a book is. Even though Genesis is written mostly in a historical sense (just as the Gospels are) that does not mean it is free of metaphor or symbolic speech.

What do you do with that?

Respond to questions like the ones you have raised.



Reminds me of an old Irish song.
YouTube - The Dubliners-Rising of the Moon <--- click
Does the moon really rise?

 

[jimmydiggs]

Whales are fish:
Jonah 1:17

Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Matthew 12:40

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

This is an issue of Taxonomy and language differences. The taxonomic sequence that you are using to point out innaccuracies with the case of Jonah's whale/fish didn't exist at that time. So you are condemning this as unscientific based on something that was unavailable to them. That would be like complaining about moratality rates in Medieval Europe caused by slow traveling doctors because they used horses, then suggesting using an airplane.

Moon emits light:

Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

"The moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven." (Mathew 24:29)

This is addressed in my previous post.

Earth is a flat disc:
(Prov 8:26-27 NRSV) when he had not yet made earth and fields, or the world’s first bits of soil. When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,"
So he drew a circle.

One of the things we have to keep in mind is that we have an English translation. In some languages not everything translates perfectly. Having taken a couple Spanish classes, even with a good grip on the language it doesn't always fit perfectly.

The Bible, Seely insists, preserves this inaccuracy. His first citation for proof is explained thus:
‘As to the shape of this one collection of seas, various OT references show that the Hebrews conceived of it as circular. Prov 8:27b, speaking of creation, says that Wisdom was present “When he (God) inscribed a circle on the face of the Deep”. Job 26:10 similarly says, “He has inscribed a circle on the face of the waters as a boundary of light and darkness”.’[SIZE=-1]10[/SIZE]
Our answer here is the same as it was previously: there is no specific Hebrew word for sphere; hence these cites are equivocal. They could refer to either a pancake-like shape or to a globe.
Does the Bible say the Earth is Flat? <--- click

(Isa 40:22 NRSV) It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;"
Actually called a circle here

In response I offer Tektonics. Again, as with above. We must understand the language in which a translated material was originally written in.

Circle the Planet

Is. 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in...​

Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.​

Prov. 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth...​

Skeptics will assume from these verses a concept of a flat, circular, pancake-like earth. In each case, the Hebrew word here is exactly the same: chuwg. And here is where we alert the reader to another key word-concept that is missing in Hebrew: There was no varying word for a "sphere" - a three-dimensional circle. It is not that the Hebrews or anyone else lacked the concept of sphericity (for obviously, they could conceive of it plainly when, for example, they ate pomegranates for breakfast), but that they simply did not create a second word for it.
Some may cite in reply here the KJV version of Is. 22:18, "He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house." The Hebrew word here, however, is duwr. This word no more inidicates sphericity than our other word, for it is used by Isaiah elsewhere thusly:

Is. 29:3 And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.​

Obviously, the soldiers could not camp in the shape of a sphere around the city. Based on this and other usages, this word appears to be making a statement about a circular pattern rather than giving reference to a given shape.
Does the Bible teach that the Earth is flat? <--- click

(Dan 4:10-11 NRSV) Upon my bed this is what I saw; there was a tree at the center of the earth, and its height was great. The tree grew great and strong, its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the ends of the whole earth."
Not possible on a sphere. Only possible on a flat disc.

Depends on how we are using the word Center. Even a perfect sphere could have multiple centers based on usage of the word. It could either be what we might call the Core of the earth, which would be imposible to have a living tree in. As well as if it is being used for the surface, (as the texts seems to indicate) then on a perfect sphere, just about anything could be the "center". However, this isn't even an issue.

Seely offers two citations in support of a ‘flat earth’ view that we need not spend much time on: Daniel 4:10, 11 and 20, and Job 37:3. The Daniel passage is actually a statement by a pagan king, which doesn’t mean that the Bible endorses that view. And it is a vision, and is therefore not intended to be a picture of reality any more than Pharaoh’s dream of cannibalistic cows and even cannibalistic ears of wheat (Genesis 41). And Job 37:3 hardly requires a flat-earth reading — it merely states that lightning occurs all over the earth. Even if it did teach a flat-earth reading, it would prove only that Elihu believed such a thing — not everything reported in the Bible is endorsed in the Bible.
Does the Bible say the Earth is Flat? <--- click

(Mat 4:8 NRSV) Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor;"
Also only possible on a flat surface

This is addressed on Tektonics as well.

Finally, we note this passage:

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them...​

This verse in Matthew by no means implies a flat earth, nor a monstrous mountain large enough to oversee the earth. Indeed, I have always thought that the trip to the mountain was a psychological ploy by Satan -- indeed, given what we know of the honor and shame dialectic of that social world, it fits as the premise of an "honor challenge" by placing Jesus in a pre-eminent position -- and that the showing of the kingdoms was accomplished by means of projecting images of some sort, as on a computer screen. Indeed, this is suggested by the parallel verse in Luke 4:5 -

The devil led him up to a high place, and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world.​

However, as anyone who has climbed mountains knows - and the writer of Matthew surely knew, if he lived in the area around Judaea, as Matthew did - the higher up you go, the smaller things down below get, by your perspective. So it seems unlikely that (even if he did believe it a flat earth, personally) Matthew's offering is not compatible with a globe.
Note that even on a flat earth, a high mountain would be a very poor place to observe the kingdoms of the world "in their glory." Furthermore, if Matthew was implying that a mountain existed from which all the world was visible, then obviously, the mountain would be visible from all parts of the world. It is ludicrous to suggest that Matthew believed such a mountain existed. The mountain in question was probably Mt. Quarantania, not far from the site where John probably baptized. It commands an incredible view of the Jordan Valley. As an aside, to those who further wonder who gave this account: Jesus was perfectly capable of doing so after the fact to his disciples.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.​

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.​

Here's some about the Earth sitting on Pillars:
(Psa 93:1 NRSV) … He has established the world; it shall never be moved;

According to CreationWiki.

With regards to Psalm 93:1, we can look at the wording to find the meaning. Looking at the phrase "the world also is established, that it cannot be moved", lets focus on the second half, "it cannot be moved". Now it will be noted by all interpreters, heliocentric or geocentric, that the word "moved" is that same word "mote" which is only used to imply an instability with regards to something that is supposed to be fixed. So wheel can slip, and a house totter. So it refers to a moving out of place or an instability in location. That is universally understood. But it is contrasted with the previous statement that "the world is established". If this simply meant a permanence in existence, as opposed to a location, then the phrase "it will not be moved" or "it will not be shaken" or "it will not totter", doesn't really make sense in the Hebrew. It would better make sense, if such an idea was meant, if a Hebrew word was used that spoke of coming out of existence, such as "destroyed", to say "it will not be destroyed". But if the phrase "the world is established" actually means "the world has been erected, set in place, fixed", all root meanings of the Hebrew word that are stated in Strongs Dictionary (see Strongs no. 3559) then such notions are compatible with the contrasting idea that "it will not totter, move, be shaken". And this, logically, means that it refers to a remaining in place as opposed to simply a permanence in existence. Although the statement in Psalms 93 may have an implication of permanence, that implication resides in the fact that the earth is established and prepared in such a way that it will not shake out of place, i.e. "it will not be removed" in the KJV language. Such an idea is definitely geocentric-friendly, but a person with a heliocentric presupposition can find an explanation or interpretation that will avoid such a notion.

(1 Sam 2:8 NRSV) For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and on them he has set the world.[/quore]
A response from Creation Ministries International.

The earth has its foundations on which it is laid, and its pillars by which it is supported; but these are no other than the power and providence of God; otherwise the earth is hung upon nothing, in the open circumambient air: and that God can and does do this may well be thought, and to do all the above things in providence and grace, related in the preceding verses; in the support, and for the proof of which, this is observed. Figuratively, the pillars of the earth may design the princes of the world, the supreme rulers of it, and civil magistrates, who are sometimes called cornerstones, and the shields of the earth (Zech. 10:4, Ps 47:9) and so pillars, because they are the means of cementing, supporting, and protecting the people of the earth, and of preserving their peace and property. Likewise good men may be meant in a figurative sense, who, as they are the salt of the earth, are the pillars of it, for whose sake it was made, and is supported, and continued in being; the church is the pillar and ground of truth; and every good man is a pillar in the house of God, and especially ministers of the Gospel (see Rev. 3:12, 1Tim. 3:15, Gal 2:9, Pr 9:1).

It is clear that, in context, the reference is to the noble ones, princes, not the physical Earth. Immediately before, the context is people, and immediately after the context is also about people. It is quite clear that this is the meaning, as Gill points out (Ryrie’s Study Bible notes also say the same thing).
&lsquo;Pillars of the Earth&rsquo; &mdash; Does the Bible teach a mythological cosmology? <--- click

(Isa 24:18 NRSV) or the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

Looking at it from a surface impression, the previous quotation from CreationWiki would likely apply.

(Gen 1:6-7 NRSV) And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
Domes don't make sense for a sphere. Then half the earth wouldn't see the sky.[/qoute]
The passage comes from day two of creation. On the second day, land was create. As you can see from the portion of Genesis it comes from.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day. 9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.


Gen 1 - PassageLookup - New International Version, ©2011 - BibleGateway.com

The hebrew word translated...

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 07549
Original Word Word Origin
[yqr from (07554)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Raqiya` TWOT - 2217a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
raw-kee'-ah Noun Masculine

Definition
extended surface (solid), expanse, firmament
expanse (flat as base, support)
firmament (of vault of heaven supporting waters above)
considered by Hebrews as solid and supporting 'waters' above


King James Word Usage - Total: 17
firmament 17

(Gen 1:14-17 NRSV) And God said, "Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years, and let them be lights in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth." And it was so. God made the two great lights–the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night–and the stars.
God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth,
Same thing

Same word as above being used here. Check it out for yourself.

Genesis 1:7-8; Genesis 1:14-15; Genesis 1:17; Genesis 1:20 - King James Version - KJV - Online Bible Study <--- click for firmament/dome/vault/etc

I can go on.

Up to you.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Blue whales (which don't migrate anywhere NEAR the the Middle East) certainly could.

Based on this chart, the Sperm Whale could quite possibly be in the general vicinity.

As far as sperm whales go and swallowability...

(1) The story has appeared over the years in numerous publications, both secular and religious. An 1896 story in the New York Times gives essentially the account above and says it came from "The Mercury of South Yarmouth, England, in October 1891," but it sounds a little skeptical.

(2) The Yarmouth Mercury of August 22, 1891, carried a story entitled "Man in a Whale's Stomach / Rescue of a Modern Jonah," which gives the account above. There's no byline nor any indication that the writer spoke with Bartley, the ship's captain, or any of the sailors.

(3) In June 1891 a rorqual whale was beached near the town of Gorleston, just south of Great Yarmouth, and was killed, stuffed, and exhibited around England.

(4) Sperm whales are capable of swallowing humans. They live on squid, which they swallow whole. In 1955 a 405-pound squid was removed intact from the belly of a sperm whale.

(5) In 1906, Lloyd's of London reported that Star of the East, a British ship, had set sail from Auckland, New Zealand, in December 1890 and arrived in New York in April 1891, so it might have been near the Falkland Islands in February. However, it was not a whaling ship, and there was no James Bartley on the crew list.

(6) Also in 1906, the wife of J.B. Killam, captain of the Star of the East, wrote that she'd been with her husband all the years he commanded the ship and that no one had been lost overboard during that time. "The sailor has told a great sea yarn," she said.

The Straight Dope: Have any real-life Jonahs been swallowed by whales and lived? <--- click

 

[dmdave17]

It's called Faith. We are told that the Scriptures were inspired by God, not written by God. I don't visualize Him taking up scroll and quill pen and putting His words down in black and white, do you? I'm sure that the human vessels through which He chose to reveal His word struggled with many of the concepts which He placed in their minds. Look at their attempts to describe angels, heavenly places, etc..

What I am sure of is that the Bible gets the important stuff right! Like how to live our lives and what Jesus did for us. You see, I believe that if our Lord wanted to make the earth a flat disc tomorrow, He could. “I am the Lord, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?" (Jeremiah 32:27)

 

[superdave5221]

1 Corinthians 1: 18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, "I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE, AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE." 20 Where is the wise man ? Where is the scribe ? Where is the debater of this age ? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world ? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom ; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,

 

[wakeup]

This isn't even about all the moral and ethical atrocities that the OT God ordered to be committed, this is just about statements of fact that are just flat out wrong.

Whales being fish, the Earth being a flat disc, the moon emitting it's own light.

What do you do with that?

That word whale obviously did not exist those days, dont know what the hebrew word is. Some might be able to give more info.

The earth being flat? JOB.26:7. He sretcheth out the north over THE EMPTY PLACE, AND HANGETH THE EARTH UPON NOTHING (the earth not sitting on an elephant back, like what the hindus say.)

isiah 40;22. It is he that sitteth upon theCIRCLE of the earth,and the inhabitans there of are as grasshoppers;That stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain,and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.

''wakeup''.

 

[wakeup]

This isn't even about all the moral and ethical atrocities that the OT God ordered to be committed, this is just about statements of fact that are just flat out wrong.

Whales being fish, the Earth being a flat disc, the moon emitting it's own light.

What do you do with that?

Jonah1:17. Now the lord had PREPARED A GREAT FISH,----

 

[Crazy4GODword]

This isn't even about all the moral and ethical atrocities that the OT God ordered to be committed, this is just about statements of fact that are just flat out wrong.

Whales being fish, the Earth being a flat disc, the moon emitting it's own light.

What do you do with that?

some to most of the time it is being symbolic for a reason.

 

[xphineasx]

Assuming you are an atheist, you reject God. To reject God by proxy you reject that there is an Objective moral standard. As such, you cannot even begin to condemn the bible for supposed moral and ethical atrocities. The biggest problem I see with Dictionary Atheism, is that those who adhere to it remain Philosophically inconsistant.



The defining of Fish is based on Taxonomy. Many questions like this can easily be dealt with. So I have a question for you. When did the current Taxonomic systems come to existance?



Does the bible really say it is a disc?

Have you ever said, "sunset/sunrise?" Do you know that the sun doesn't set nor rise? Generally when we speak of these issues, they are rather geo-centric in nature.




One of the things we have to remember is the type of writing a book is. Even though Genesis is written mostly in a historical sense (just as the Gospels are) that does not mean it is free of metaphor or symbolic speech.

Respond to questions like the ones you have raised.



Reminds me of an old Irish song.
YouTube - The Dubliners-Rising of the Moon <--- click
Does the moon really rise?

First of all, just because I dont believe in an objective moral standard (as an Existentialist), doesn't mean I lack MORALS. And I can make moral judgement on other things. I have a personal moral code based on personal experience and logic.
Ordering pregnant women to have their wombs ripped open: Immoral. (Kings 15:16)

The Bible never refers to the Earth as a "disc", but does talk about how it is flat and supported by pillars. A lot. As I've already quoted.

Are you suggesting that all of Genesis is just a metaphor?

 

[xphineasx]

some to most of the time it is being symbolic for a reason.

Which parts are symbolic, how did you determine that and why?

 

[xphineasx]

That word whale obviously did not exist those days, dont know what the hebrew word is. Some might be able to give more info.

The earth being flat? JOB.26:7. He sretcheth out the north over THE EMPTY PLACE, AND HANGETH THE EARTH UPON NOTHING (the earth not sitting on an elephant back, like what the hindus say.)

isiah 40;22. It is he that sitteth upon theCIRCLE of the earth,and the inhabitans there of are as grasshoppers;That stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain,and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.

''wakeup''.

Circle = Not a Sphere.
Circle = Disc
I already quoted that verse earlier in this very thread.

 

[xphineasx]

This is an issue of Taxonomy and language differences. The taxonomic sequence that you are using to point out innaccuracies with the case of Jonah's whale/fish didn't exist at that time. So you are condemning this as unscientific based on something that was unavailable to them. That would be like complaining about moratality rates in Medieval Europe caused by slow traveling doctors because they used horses, then suggesting using an airplane.

This is addressed in my previous post.



One of the things we have to keep in mind is that we have an English translation. In some languages not everything translates perfectly. Having taken a couple Spanish classes, even with a good grip on the language it doesn't always fit perfectly.





In response I offer Tektonics. Again, as with above. We must understand the language in which a translated material was originally written in.




Depends on how we are using the word Center. Even a perfect sphere could have multiple centers based on usage of the word. It could either be what we might call the Core of the earth, which would be imposible to have a living tree in. As well as if it is being used for the surface, (as the texts seems to indicate) then on a perfect sphere, just about anything could be the "center". However, this isn't even an issue.







This is addressed on Tektonics as well.





According to CreationWiki.

(1 Sam 2:8 NRSV) For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and on them he has set the world.[/quore]
A response from Creation Ministries International.



Looking at it from a surface impression, the previous quotation from CreationWiki would likely apply.

(Gen 1:6-7 NRSV) And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
Domes don't make sense for a sphere. Then half the earth wouldn't see the sky.[/qoute]
The passage comes from day two of creation. On the second day, land was create. As you can see from the portion of Genesis it comes from.

The hebrew word translated...




Same word as above being used here. Check it out for yourself.

Genesis 1:7-8; Genesis 1:14-15; Genesis 1:17; Genesis 1:20 - King James Version - KJV - Online Bible Study <--- click for firmament/dome/vault/etc


Up to you.

So you've boiled the problem down to "metaphor" and "translation error"?

While I can't say much for the translation errors, as I don't speak or read Hebrew, the metaphor bit is wholly unconvincing. God reflecting the current times understanding of the world, incorrectly, as a metaphor?
If it is a metaphor then WHY is it used? Metaphors are used with purpose. How did you determine it was a metaphor?

 

[xphineasx]

It's called Faith. We are told that the Scriptures were inspired by God, not written by God. I don't visualize Him taking up scroll and quill pen and putting His words down in black and white, do you? I'm sure that the human vessels through which He chose to reveal His word struggled with many of the concepts which He placed in their minds. Look at their attempts to describe angels, heavenly places, etc..

What I am sure of is that the Bible gets the important stuff right! Like how to live our lives and what Jesus did for us. You see, I believe that if our Lord wanted to make the earth a flat disc tomorrow, He could. “I am the Lord, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?" (Jeremiah 32:27)

First of all, God could make the Earth flat tomorrow, but he couldn't get people to write an accurate translation of his holy word?
So...the Bible is fallible.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Stop interpreting the bible through the eyes of a protestant bible literalist?

The majority of the Christians on the planet do not interpret the Bible Literally. ie. Catholics, who make up the majority of Christians on the planet.

lol.. What is this?? One can interpret the bible literally and not come up with mistakes. The people who do not interpret the word literally do so because a literal translation of the word destroys there doctrines. This is the fallacy of allegorizing scripture. You make make it say whatever you want!

 

[Crazy4GODword]

Which parts are symbolic, how did you determine that and why?

like when Jesus talks in parables,,,,,the things are symbolic....the book of Revelation is very symbolic.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Whales are fish:
Jonah 1:17

Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Matthew 12:40

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

The greek word in Matt means "great fish" All modern english translations use this as the interpretation. You can't call it a mistake when it is just an interpreters mistake. When the KJV was written, They used englsih words whith they thought best worked. At that time I am sure many considered a whale a fish.

The english bible is not inspired by God. only the origional autographs were.

Moon emits light:

Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

"The moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven." (Mathew 24:29)

With no sun, the moon would not give off any light now would it? Just because something is not the "source of light" does not mean it can not give off light. If the moon was not there. there would be nothing to reflect the suns light back to earth at night. Thus there would be no source of light at night.

Earth is a flat disc:
(Prov 8:26-27 NRSV) when he had not yet made earth and fields, or the world’s first bits of soil. When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,"
So he drew a circle.

(Isa 40:22 NRSV) It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;"
Actually called a circle here

(Dan 4:10-11 NRSV) Upon my bed this is what I saw; there was a tree at the center of the earth, and its height was great. The tree grew great and strong, its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the ends of the whole earth."
Not possible on a sphere. Only possible on a flat disc.

(Mat 4:8 NRSV) Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor;"
Also only possible on a flat surface

Here's some about the Earth sitting on Pillars:
(Psa 93:1 NRSV) … He has established the world; it shall never be moved;

(1 Sam 2:8 NRSV) For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and on them he has set the world.

(Isa 24:18 NRSV) or the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

(Gen 1:6-7 NRSV) And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
Domes don't make sense for a sphere. Then half the earth wouldn't see the sky.

(Gen 1:14-17 NRSV) And God said, "Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years, and let them be lights in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth." And it was so. God made the two great lights–the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night–and the stars.
God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth,
Same thing

I can go on.

non of these things prove a flat earth.

 

[AnandaHya]

You're reading a bad translation of the Bible. I read the New King James and here are the corresponding verses in Red. My intepertation in Green

Whales are fish:
Jonah 1:17

Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Jonah 1:17 (New King James Version)
17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Matthew 12:40

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Matthew 12:40 (New King James Version)
40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth


Moon emits light:

Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

"The moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven." (Mathew 24:29)
(it does not say HOW the moon gives light. the moon actually reflects the sun's light and during a lunar eclipse when the Earth is between the sun and the moon then it does not give her light/ reflected light)

Earth is a flat disc:
(Prov 8:26-27 NRSV) when he had not yet made earth and fields, or the world’s first bits of soil. When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,"
So he drew a circle.

(Isa 40:22 NRSV) It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;"
Actually called a circle here

(Dan 4:10-11 NRSV) Upon my bed this is what I saw; there was a tree at the center of the earth, and its height was great. The tree grew great and strong, its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the ends of the whole earth."
Not possible on a sphere. Only possible on a flat disc. (or its a metaphor for the gravitational pull that originates from the center of the earth and reaches to the heavens?)

(Mat 4:8 NRSV) Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor;"
Also only possible on a flat surface ( you can't see pictures of the whole world sitting in front of your TV or computer screen?)

Here's some about the Earth sitting on Pillars:
(Psa 93:1 NRSV) … He has established the world; it shall never be moved;

(1 Sam 2:8 NRSV) For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and on them he has set the world. (inner core)

(Isa 24:18 NRSV) or the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble. (earth quake, plate tectonics)

(Gen 1:6-7 NRSV) And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
Domes don't make sense for a sphere. Then half the earth wouldn't see the sky. (umm the dome is the sky, the atmosphere or more likely the OZONE LAYER that separates outer space from the earth atmosphere and keeps the gases inside to contain and maintain life?, you have to keep in mind that God inspired the Bible but MAN wrote it and their preconceived notions creep in and they couldn't have understood about the ozone and other things yet.)

(Gen 1:14-17 NRSV) And God said, "Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years, and let them be lights in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth." And it was so. God made the two great lights–the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night–and the stars.
God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth,
Same thing

I can go on.

Genesis 1:14-17 (New King James Version)

14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth,

I think the problem is not in God's Holy Bible or God's creation of the world, but MAN's understanding of both what God said and what we observe in the world.

my version has no mention of a "dome of the sky"

 

[AnandaHya]

So you've boiled the problem down to "metaphor" and "translation error"?

While I can't say much for the translation errors, as I don't speak or read Hebrew, the metaphor bit is wholly unconvincing. God reflecting the current times understanding of the world, incorrectly, as a metaphor?
If it is a metaphor then WHY is it used? Metaphors are used with purpose. How did you determine it was a metaphor?

I haven't read the whole thread but I do know the Bible verse that answers why God used metaphors in the Old testament (I actually the whole old testament was a metaphor or prophecies that set the stage for Jesus's salvation message. He is the passover lamb that saves and marks people from the deadly plagues that will be unleashed upon the world. Some would say have already has been unleashed in terms of disease, famine, strife, etc.

Jesus calls them parables and tells His disciples why they are used and also says He reveals secrets that have been made a mystery since the foundation of the Earth.

Matthew 13:10-23 (New King James Version)

The Purpose of Parables


10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”
11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:


‘ Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should[a]heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

The Parable of the Sower Explained


18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

So God's Words are like seeds some will hear and allow it to take root and bear fruit in their lives and some will have it stolen, be rootless or choked out by Satan, lack of study, and/or the world cares.

1. they don't care to know or learn
2. they are too lazy to know and learn
3. they worship the pleasures of the world and value it more then the Kingdom of God and are not willing to trust in God or trade everything for that one precious pearl: Salvation.

 

[Scotth1960]

In Job.. the Lod is recorded as saying the Earth is sphere, not flat
I don't know where you got that whales are fish from.. if its from Jomah and the whale then you'll find that nowhere does it say Jonah was swallowed by a whale. It says big fish but not whale. And you should listen and read the Bible literally, God wouldn't write it so we couldn't understand

The question is, is there any species of big fish that is actually big enough to swallow a man? If not, why can't a whale be called a big fish? It's poetic language, not science. The Bible often uses poetic language. People do, too! So, Jonah could have been swallowed by a big fish, that is, by a whale. Few fish seem to be big enough to swallow humans. Take care.