-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Romans 11:1-2,15,28 KJVS
[1] I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. [2] God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, [15] For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be , but life from the dead? [28] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
You keep inserting 'national' Israel. The nation came out of Egypt, simply meaning from the twelve tribes.
I would have to reject 20% or so of the OT prophecies regarding their regathering to their land to hold to what you hold.
Reread Rom 11:28...Romans 11:28 KJVS
[28] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.... That's speaking of unbelieving Israel.
[1] I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. [2] God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, [15] For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be , but life from the dead? [28] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
You keep inserting 'national' Israel. The nation came out of Egypt, simply meaning from the twelve tribes.
I would have to reject 20% or so of the OT prophecies regarding their regathering to their land to hold to what you hold.
Reread Rom 11:28...Romans 11:28 KJVS
[28] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.... That's speaking of unbelieving Israel.
E
Gen 12:
12 Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
[SUP]2[/SUP]I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
Gen 15:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. [SUP]18 [/SUP]On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— [SUP]19 [/SUP]the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, [SUP]20 [/SUP]the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, [SUP]21 [/SUP]the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”
Gen 17: [SUP]4 [/SUP]“As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. [SUP]5 [/SUP]No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. [SUP]6 [/SUP]I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
Why is isreal not in the land, even today in rthe capacity God promised?
Lev 26: [SUP]7 [/SUP]‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me, [SUP]28 [/SUP]then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your sweet aromas.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you are in your enemies’ land;
then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]As long as it lies desolate it shall rest—
for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.
But the promise still remains, why?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
[SUP]41 [/SUP]and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
[SUP]42 [/SUP]then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
According to romans 11. This will happen, It even gives the time,, The time that the time of the gentile is fulfilled. or completed.
12 Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
[SUP]2[/SUP]I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
Gen 15:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. [SUP]18 [/SUP]On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— [SUP]19 [/SUP]the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, [SUP]20 [/SUP]the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, [SUP]21 [/SUP]the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”
Gen 17: [SUP]4 [/SUP]“As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. [SUP]5 [/SUP]No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. [SUP]6 [/SUP]I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
Why is isreal not in the land, even today in rthe capacity God promised?
Lev 26: [SUP]7 [/SUP]‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me, [SUP]28 [/SUP]then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your sweet aromas.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you are in your enemies’ land;
then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]As long as it lies desolate it shall rest—
for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.
But the promise still remains, why?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
[SUP]41 [/SUP]and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt—
[SUP]42 [/SUP]then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
According to romans 11. This will happen, It even gives the time,, The time that the time of the gentile is fulfilled. or completed.
I don't have chapter and verse for these things, but I think they're in the bible.
when Israel enters the land under Joshua, God tells them to kill the people living there, use their houses and vineyards, and so on.
is God telling Jewish people to move to israel today? I don't know... maybe He is... then the question is what about the people who were already living there...
when Israel enters the land under Joshua, God tells them to kill the people living there, use their houses and vineyards, and so on.
is God telling Jewish people to move to israel today? I don't know... maybe He is... then the question is what about the people who were already living there...
E
That is the worse interpretation I have ever heard, Especially since paul separated believing gentiles from believing and non believing isreal.
The times of th egentiles is the time spoken of by daniel, where gentile dominion over jerusalem will be in effect. It started with babylon, and t runs till today.
The times of th egentiles is the time spoken of by daniel, where gentile dominion over jerusalem will be in effect. It started with babylon, and t runs till today.
E
If you can not get this, You can not understand
Paul put ISREAL (believing) and gentiles (believing) in christ. who is the true olive tree..
Thats your opinion Paul would not have mentioned it, if it were not so.
remember, do not be fooled. and think your wise, Isreal has been blinded in part until the time of th egentile is fulfilled.
He was not speaking of unsaved jews and gentiles. Only unsaved jews..
it is a mystery.. Keep studying you will get it one day.
Paul put ISREAL (believing) and gentiles (believing) in christ. who is the true olive tree..
Thats your opinion Paul would not have mentioned it, if it were not so.
remember, do not be fooled. and think your wise, Isreal has been blinded in part until the time of th egentile is fulfilled.
He was not speaking of unsaved jews and gentiles. Only unsaved jews..
it is a mystery.. Keep studying you will get it one day.
And there will never be a God accepted Temple again.
where does prophecy speak of a literal temple? you are imagining it.
so God allegorised prophecy in 2 Cor 6? LOL LOL
Go and learn what allegory means. God said that His people were now a spiritual temple. That is a FACT not an allegory. May I suggest God can do what He Likes.
He also says that literal Jerusalem and the temple are now in Heaven. Or is He allegorising that too ? LOL
The olive tree was in identification of Israel by GOD (Jer. 11.16). (The LORD once called you).
Are you suggesting that unbelieving Jews were cut off literally from Christ? They w ere NEVER in Christ. your usual slack exegesis.
slack exegesis AGAIN. It does not speak of 'the times of the gentiles'.
It speaks of 'the fullness of the gentiles be come in (TO ISRAEL). i.e the Gentile believers.
you need to get sorted out especially on Rom 11. Cf 9.27, 29
Are you suggesting that unbelieving Jews were cut off literally from Christ? They w ere NEVER in Christ. your usual slack exegesis.
slack exegesis AGAIN. It does not speak of 'the times of the gentiles'.
It speaks of 'the fullness of the gentiles be come in (TO ISRAEL). i.e the Gentile believers.
you need to get sorted out especially on Rom 11. Cf 9.27, 29
They are building one now in unbelief...
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 KJVS
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 KJVS
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Israel, as all the world, is in a new covenant time frame. If they choose to accept it and live it is their choice. Ultimately what is going on with Palestine and Israel is going to tie the end times prophecy together regarding world peace, one world order and the 3rd temple.
Its really not anymore complicated then that.
All the little subplots and concurrent stories and going ons may be interesting, but the main plot line is what the bible states about the end times and how Israel ties into it.
Palestine is really just a second tier player in all this, despite as important they like to think they are to world history and domination of Islam over Israel and the world.
Its really not anymore complicated then that.
All the little subplots and concurrent stories and going ons may be interesting, but the main plot line is what the bible states about the end times and how Israel ties into it.
Palestine is really just a second tier player in all this, despite as important they like to think they are to world history and domination of Islam over Israel and the world.