what do people think of Palestine - Israel conflict !!

[valiant]

Who said it was accepted by God. Israel would still be in sin.. So your point is mute/

well I am pleased you accept the fact that there will NEVER be a temple on earth again except for the church.

How would the abomination of desolation occure which starts the great tribulation? And do not say it occurred in 70 AD. it did not.

the abomination of desolation quite clearly occurred in 70 AD when the Roman standards with their idolatrous symbols attacked the holy city, and penetrated the holy of holies,

Um, 2 cor 6 is not prophesy, It is an OT truth being shown to represent a NT fact.

Nice try.

well if you don't call the old testament fulfilment a prophesy, I do.

Go and learn what prophesy means. It means God says this will happen, It is fulfilled when that happens. In fact God said if a person prophesies and that things does not happen as it was said it is not from God

precisely, they would be fulfilled in the way that GOD intended,

 

[Brother_J_BELGIUM]

Arabs who call themselves Palestinians already have their two state solution. Their "Palestinian state" is Jordan. After the dismantling of the Ottoman empire after World War I, the English and the French (the so-called colonial powers of that time) created the British mandate for Palestine:



Later, as everybody knows, this area was divided into a Western part for the Jews (the State of Israel) and the Eastern part for the Arabs. Roughly 75 % or more of this area was given to the so-called Palestinian Arabs. But that wasn't enough.

Instead of complaining Israel is partially governing over them in the West Bank and building settlements there, they should be glad that Israel doesn't demand all of the land in between the Nile River and the Euphrates River to be theirs.

Should Israel give up their own land to people who want nothing else but the destruction of the Jewish State? I don't think so. The hatred for Israel is fed by their mother's milk as was again recently proven:

[video]http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/5461.htm[/video]

 

[valiant]

valiant said :He also says that literal Jerusalem and the temple are now in Heaven. Or is He allegorising that too ? LOL

Nope that is a future event, Not present.

Gal 4.20 onwards? Heb 12.20-22?

 

[valiant]

Arabs who call themselves Palestinians already have their two state solution. Their "Palestinian state" is Jordan. After the dismantling of the Ottoman empire after World War I, the English and the French (the so-called colonial powers of that time) created the British mandate for Palestine:

View attachment 149429

Later, as everybody knows, this area was divided into a Western part for the Jews (the State of Israel) and the Eastern part for the Arabs. Roughly 75 % or more of this area was given to the so-called Palestinian Arabs. But that wasn't enough.

Instead of complaining Israel is partially governing over them in the West Bank and building settlements there, they should be glad that Israel doesn't demand all of the land in between the Nile River and the Euphrates River to be theirs.

Should Israel give up their own land to people who want nothing else but the destruction of the Jewish State? I don't think so. The hatred for Israel is fed by their mother's milk as was again recently proven:

[video]http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/5461.htm[/video]

So the British are God? LOL

 

[KJV1611]

Hi KJV
I don't have a position on this - on the fence, as they say.

What about Romans 11:1-3?
Paul is asking if God has rejected His people, the Jews. Paul answers by saying "Oh no, not at all."

Verse 4 goes on to speak of the remnant. There was always a remnant. Even today many Jews accept Jesus as Messiah.
So, maybe they would make up the new Church, the new Kingdom?

This also reminds me of the Marriage Feast.
Mathew 22:2-14

Some of the Jews were seated at the Wedding table, as were also those who were called from the outside (Gentiles), but all had to be properly dressed (Jesus).

Also, what about Mathew 8:31-42
Mathew 8:33-35
Mathew 8:39-40

Just thinking out loud.
Your thoughts?

Fran

God has not rejected his people, but where most people err is in thinking that the fleshly descendants are God's chosen people... they are not now and never have been God's chosen people.

God's chosen people in Old Testament times came almost exclusively from fleshy descendants of Abraham, but that doesn't mean that fleshly Israel was the chosen people and they weren't. At the end of Romans 10 Paul is saying basically that the Jews were a bunch of stiff necked rebillious people and we know from many other passages that God took the kingdom from Israel. That's what Paul is talking about in Romans 11:1. Even though God was casting away fleshly Israel, Paul is stating that God is not throwing out the baby with the bath water so to speak. Israel was being rejected but God's chosen people who were Jews were not being cast away.

And yes the marriage feast is about the same thing. Fleshly Israel was bidden to the wedding feast but they wanted nothing to do with it. Same story is found in Esther, Vashti is Israel in that story.

 

[KJV1611]

I don't know about the land issue, but some things are for sure.
Matthew 23:38-39;
"Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord'".

It looks to me that the House of Israel is desolate today and none of them will ever see Jesus until they call on him.
They have rejected the Messiah.
Their promises comes through the Messiah, just as they are for us.

That's a good verse you posted. Most people think that means the Jews will turn to Christ en masse at the second coming. Thanks for the posting the verse and your explanation of theJews calling on him individually.... I never saw it that way but you are right!

 

[tooldtocare]

Someone needs to learn what percent means

Palestine is the green area being gobbled up by invaders

 

[resurrection33]

View attachment 149449

Someone needs to learn what percent means

Palestine is the green area being gobbled up by invaders

The Lord gave this region to the Jews thousands of years ago as a permanent inheritance. It's all that they have. Look at all the land the Muslims rule over. Look at all the land the Christians rule over. Why would you begrudge the Jews this tiny sliver of land to live on?

 

[Linda70]

Judgment Day! Islam, Israel and the Nations by Dave Hunt

[T]he land into which God brought Abraham some 4,000 years ago, which He promised by everlasting covenant to him and to his heirs, and in which he and his descendants through Isaac and Jacob lived for centuries, was not a nonexistent place called "Palestine." It was the historic land of Canaan (1 Chr:16:15-18)....

Around A.D. 132, the Romans, who had decimated Jerusalem in A.D. 70, began to rebuild it for Roman Emperor Hadrian.... They started construction of a temple to Jupiter on Temple Mount at the site of the ancient Jewish temples. Understandably, there was an uprising of the Jews to prevent such desecration. It was led by Simon Bar Kochba, whom many at that time considered to be the Messiah.

At first the revolt was remarkably successful, but...the Romans eventually destroyed nearly 1,000 villages, killed about 500,000 Jews, and sold thousands into slavery. When the revolt was finally crushed in A.D. 135, the Roman conquerors angrily renamed the land of Israel, Provincia Syria-Palestina , after Israel's ancient enemies, the Philistines. From that time forward, all those living there were known as "Palestinians."

Who lived in the newly designated Palestine and were thus known as "Palestinians"? Jews, of course! Chase them out and they return to the land God gave to their forebears. At that time, Arabs hadn't even dreamed that "Palestine" was their land. That ambition would not take hold for another 500 years until the advent of Islam — and even then Arabs would not call themselves Palestinians.
***************************************

The Muslims/Arabs are the "occupiers" of the land which God gave to the Jews. The land promise was made to Isaac, not to Ishmael. (Genesis 17:19-21)

Genesis 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Genesis 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

 

[KJV1611]

Judgment Day! Islam, Israel and the Nations by Dave Hunt

[T]he land into which God brought Abraham some 4,000 years ago, which He promised by everlasting covenant to him and to his heirs, and in which he and his descendants through Isaac and Jacob lived for centuries, was not a nonexistent place called "Palestine." It was the historic land of Canaan (1 Chr:16:15-18)....

Around A.D. 132, the Romans, who had decimated Jerusalem in A.D. 70, began to rebuild it for Roman Emperor Hadrian.... They started construction of a temple to Jupiter on Temple Mount at the site of the ancient Jewish temples. Understandably, there was an uprising of the Jews to prevent such desecration. It was led by Simon Bar Kochba, whom many at that time considered to be the Messiah.

At first the revolt was remarkably successful, but...the Romans eventually destroyed nearly 1,000 villages, killed about 500,000 Jews, and sold thousands into slavery. When the revolt was finally crushed in A.D. 135, the Roman conquerors angrily renamed the land of Israel, Provincia Syria-Palestina , after Israel's ancient enemies, the Philistines. From that time forward, all those living there were known as "Palestinians."

Who lived in the newly designated Palestine and were thus known as "Palestinians"? Jews, of course! Chase them out and they return to the land God gave to their forebears. At that time, Arabs hadn't even dreamed that "Palestine" was their land. That ambition would not take hold for another 500 years until the advent of Islam — and even then Arabs would not call themselves Palestinians.
***************************************

The Muslims/Arabs are the "occupiers" of the land which God gave to the Jews. The land promise was made to Isaac, not to Ishmael. (Genesis 17:19-21)

Genesis 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Genesis 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Linda what does the bible mean by "the children of the flesh are not the children of God"?

Romans 9:8 KJV
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[Linda70]

Linda what does the bible mean by "the children of the flesh are not the children of God"?

Romans 9:8 KJV

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Begin at verse 6 to understand the CONTEXT of who the "children of the flesh" are.

Romans 9:6

The Promises: God has given wonderful promises to the Israelites in His Word. He promised them the land (Gen. 15:18; 17:8). He promised that out of Abraham would come a great nation (Gen. 12:2) which would never cease to be a nation before God (Jer. 31:36-37). He promised a future kingdom age when there would be justice in all the earth (Jer. 23:5) and peace throughout all the world (Micah 4:3). He promised the Israelites that He would make a new covenant with them which would include the forgiveness of sins and a unique relationship with God (Jer. 31:31-34 and see Ezekiel 36:24-29). Most importantly they would enjoy the personal presence of Jehovah Himself (Jehovah Jesus) in their midst (Isaiah 33:17,22; Ezekiel 48:35; Jer. 23:5-6).

The Problem: At the time when Paul wrote to the Romans the great majority of Jews were rejecting Christ and rejecting the gospel. The gospel Paul preached made it very clear that those who reject Christ are damned and doomed for eternity, and this includes unbelieving Jews. The gospel was reaching out more and more to Gentile nations. When the church first began it was composed of Jewish believers (Acts 2) but as time went on more and more Gentiles were saved and became a part of the body of Christ. Thus we have a problem: What about the Jews who refuse to believe in Christ? What about the many Jews who will face the wrath of God for rejecting Christ and who will never participate in the promised kingdom? IF GOD HAS PROMISED ALL THESE THINGS TO THE ISRAELITES, WHY WILL MANY JEWS NEVER SEE THE FULFILLMENT OF THESE PROMISES? Has God failed to keep His Word?

"Taken none effect"=failed. God’s Word has not failed! God’s promises to Israel will never fall to the ground unfulfilled (Joshua 21:45). God has never and will never break any of the promises which He made to Abraham, Isaac or Jacob. BUT IF GOD KEEPS HIS PROMISES THEN HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE FACT THAT MANY JEWS WILL NEVER SEE THE FULFILLMENT OF THE PROMISES? Paul explains by giving a principle: They are not all Israel which are of (out of) Israel. They are not all Israel who are (descended) from Israel. Just because you have come out of Israel (that is, you are a descendant of Jacob) does not make you a true Israelite. Just because you are a Jew does not make you a true Jew. Just because you are a Jew outwardly does not make you a Jew inwardly (Rom. 2:28-29). Just because you have been circumcised outwardly does not mean that you have been circumcised in the heart (Rom. 2:28-29).

Romans 9:7

Paul now begins to illustrate the principle that you can descend from someone very important and yet not be blessed by God and not be a recipient of God’s promises. It is interesting to notice that Paul first goes to the book of Genesis, illustrating his point from the lives of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. He expects the reader to be very familiar with the book of Genesis. Later in the chapter he will use the example of Pharaoh, thus assuming that the reader has mastered the contents of Exodus. Later in this chapter he will quote from Hosea and Isaiah and he assumes that the reader is familiar with these books. Remember, in the book of Romans Paul quotes from the Old Testament approximately 60 times! It is very tragic that with all the Bibles in circulation today in America, most people are so ignorant of the Bible. For most people (even church-going people) most of the pages of Scripture are very unfamiliar territory. When you open the Bible, do you find yourself in a strange, unknown territory or do you find yourself in a place that is familiar and very well known? May God help us to be more and more at home in His Word!

Consider verse 7--Isaac was not the only son of Abraham. Ishmael was the first son born to Abraham and Isaac was born years later. Thus Abraham had two children (two who were of the seed of Abraham) but only one of those children could really say, "I am a true child of Abraham." Physically they were both Abraham’s children, but in the spiritual realm God chose only one of those sons to be the one who would receive the blessings and the promises (see Genesis 17:19-21; 21:12).

In the days of Christ the Jews took great pride in being children of Abraham (see Matthew 3:9; John 8:33,37,39,44). The Jews thought that all who came out of Abraham were blessed and recipients of the promises. They mistakenly thought that all who descended from Israel were (true) Israel. They failed to realize that a true Jew must have four FATHERS--Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and GOD! Compare the Ishmaelites (modern day Arabs) who can claim Abraham as their father. Compare the descendants of Esau (Edomites) who can claim both Abraham and Isaac. Compare the unbelieving Jews in the days of Christ who claimed Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (all three) as their fathers; but the problem was that God was not their father (John 8:42). You need all four to qualify as a true Jew: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and GOD. A person becomes properly related to God only by personal faith!

Romans 9:8-9

Ishmael was a child of the flesh; Isaac was the child of promise (see Galatians 4:22-23,28). The birth of Ishmael was natural (Genesis 16). It came about not because Abraham listened to God but because he listened to his wife. It was a fleshly attempt to try to help God keep His promise. The result was Ishmael, the child of the flesh. The birth of Isaac was supernatural (Gen. 18:14). It was a miraculous birth--God did it! God kept His promise in a remarkable way! Isaac was the child of promise. The point Paul was making is this: Abraham had two sons but only one of these sons partook of the covenant promises and became part of the chosen line which would blossom into a great nation and out of whom the Messiah would come. Count Isaac in; count Ishmael out!

ROMANS CHAPTER 9

Children of the flesh=Ishmael and his physical descendants (Arabs); Children of the promise=Isaac and his physical descendants (Jews)

 

[kaylagrl]

Can The Jews Be Destroyed?
A Message For All Those
Who Say Israel Has No Future

(or a message for all Jew-haters determined
to try to use force
to insure that Israel has no future)​

Replacement Theology --- This view teaches that the Church has permanently replaced Israel as the instrument through which God works and that natural Israel does not have a future in the plan and purpose of God. The many promises made to Israel in the Bible (especially the kingdom promises) are fulfilled in the Christian Church, in a non-literal way. The prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Land of Promise are "spiritualized" into promises of God's blessing for the Church. The prophecies of condemnation and judgment, however, still remain for national Israel.

Amillennialism --- This view harmonizes well with "replacement theology." It teaches that there will be no future kingdom. Rather, the kingdom promises are being fulfilled (in a non-literal way) by the church. The nation Israel will not enjoy a future millennial kingdom, nor will the Messiah rule over the world from an earthly Davidic throne in Jerusalem. The kingdom of God is being enjoyed today in the hearts of believers in a spiritual way, but the nation Israel has no future kingdom to look forward to.

God has given an unfailing formula for the destruction of Israel. If you want Israel to cease being a nation, then God has indicated exactly what must take place. Every Jew-hating Muslim and every anti-Semitic Arab who is bent upon the destruction of Israel should diligently study these passages of Scripture, for in them is the secret of Israel's demise.

Also every Christian leader who denies that the nation Israel has a wonderful future in their land, under their Messiah, according to all the kingdom prophecies given by the prophets, should give serious consideration to what God has said must happen if Israel is to cease being a nation before Him.

Jeremiah 31:35-37
Jeremiah 33:19-26
Jeremiah 23:5-8

God's Promise to Israel​

For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished (Jeremiah 30:11).
********************************

God is certainly not speaking to the Church in the Old Testament. He is speaking to the PHYSICAL descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob/Israel. (Genesis 12:1-3, 7; Genesis 17:21; Genesis 26:3-6; Genesis 28: 12-16)

The Seed of Abraham is both the nation Israel and Jesus Christ (Luke 1:55; John 7:42; Acts 3:25; 7:5-6; 13:23; Romans 1:3; 4:13,16,18; 9:7-8,29; Galatians 3:16-29; 2 Timothy 2:8; Hebrews 11:18).

Deuteronomy 1:8 Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.

Excellent post! thanks for sharing!

 

[kaylagrl]

View attachment 149449

Someone needs to learn what percent means

Palestine is the green area being gobbled up by invaders

Palestine is not a country, you cant invade it. The land belongs to the Jews.

 

[valiant]

The Lord gave this region to the Jews thousands of years ago as a permanent inheritance. It's all that they have. Look at all the land the Muslims rule over. Look at all the land the Christians rule over. Why would you begrudge the Jews this tiny sliver of land to live on?

LOL the poor Jews with just that little bit of land, large chunks of US and much of uk's wealth. How do they survive?

But WE do not begrudge them it. We don't awaken false promises and we believe what God has REALLY said.

actually it was given to Israel. And they forfeited it !!

 

[valiant]

Palestine is not a country, you cant invade it. The land belongs to the Jews.

if God thought it belonged to the atheistic Jews He would have given them it. But He didn't and hasn't.

They have taken it by force of arms without God's instructions.

 

[valiant]

Begin at verse 6 to understand the CONTEXT of who the "children of the flesh" are.

Verse 6 says that the majority of Israel are NOT IN GOD'S EYES ISRAEL. That seem clear enough.

The Promises: God has given wonderful promises to the Israelites in His Word. He promised them the land (Gen. 15:18; 17:8).[/quote]

To the TRUE Israel, yes. But in Heb 11.10-16 He maks clear it is in a new heaven and a new earth

He promised that out of Abraham would come a great nation (Gen. 12:2) which would never cease to be a nation before God (Jer. 31:36-37).

And that is what the believing nation now is, incorporating as always Gentile proselytes. 'the kingdom shall be taken from you (Unbelieving part of Israel) and shall be given to a nation bringing forth its fruits'. (Matt 21.43). Clear enough. ?

He promised a future kingdom age when there would be justice in all the earth (Jer. 23:5) and peace throughout all the world (Micah 4:3)

That was His promise of the Gospel given in OT terms.

He promised the Israelites that He would make a new covenant with them which would include the forgiveness of sins and a unique relationship with God (Jer. 31:31-34 and see Ezekiel 36:24-29).

and that is what His present Israel, the church of Jesus Christ (rom 11.12-24; eph, 2.11-22' ! pet 2.9; gal 3.28-29; etc). now has. You are as blind as the Jews.

Most importantly they would enjoy the personal presence of Jehovah Himself (Jehovah Jesus) in their midst (Isaiah 33:17,22; Ezekiel 48:35; Jer. 23:5-6).

and that is fulfilled in Rev 21-22 in the new spiritual earth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

well I am pleased you accept the fact that there will NEVER be a temple on earth again except for the church.

Thats good. Now when we can get you to admit that no temple that was ever placed on this earth every caused the forgiveness of one persons sin. And the temple in Jesus day was basically used as a pagan temple. Then we may find some common ground.

the abomination of desolation quite clearly occurred in 70 AD when the Roman standards with their idolatrous symbols attacked the holy city, and penetrated the holy of holies,

An abomination does not penetrate a holy of holys, It is placed in a holy place to make it unclean, It is used as a took by the enemy to desecrate a temple, and make it unusable for what it was untended to use.

So. it quite clearly could not have happened in 70 AD. The temple was destroyed, thus there was no need to desecrate it,

well if you don't call the old testament fulfilment a prophesy, I do.

lol. Ok, Feel free to call a symbolic representation a prophesy

Of course, thats where you get in trouble to begin with.

precisely, they would be fulfilled in the way that GOD intended,

And God told us how he intended.

Deuteronomy 18:22
when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

Thus symbolic interpretations would have to be ruled out. Because then ANYONE could make a prophesy and it appear to come true.

 

[valiant]

The Problem: At the time when Paul wrote to the Romans the great majority of Jews were rejecting Christ and rejecting the gospel. The gospel Paul preached made it very clear that those who reject Christ are damned and doomed for eternity, and this includes unbelieving Jews. The gospel was reaching out more and more to Gentile nations. When the church first began it was composed of Jewish believers (Acts 2) but as time went on more and more Gentiles were saved and became a part of the body of Christ.

AND of Israel (Rom 11.12-24 cf Jer 11.16).

Thus we have a problem: What about the Jews who refuse to believe in Christ? What about the many Jews who will face the wrath of God for rejecting Christ and who will never participate in the promised kingdom? IF GOD HAS PROMISED ALL THESE THINGS TO THE ISRAELITES, WHY WILL MANY JEWS NEVER SEE THE FULFILLMENT OF THESE PROMISES? Has God failed to keep His Word?

No, exactly what He says has happened. He has fulfilled His promises. Deut 28.15 ff.

"Taken none effect"=failed. God’s Word has not failed! God’s promises to Israel will never fall to the ground unfulfilled (Joshua 21:45). God has never and will never break any of the promises which He made to Abraham, Isaac or Jacob. BUT IF GOD KEEPS HIS PROMISES THEN HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE FACT THAT MANY JEWS WILL NEVER SEE THE FULFILLMENT OF THE PROMISES?

God has fulfilled His promises.

He HAS CONDEMNED unbelieving Israel, and the true Israel, the elect, He has saved (Ro 9.6)

Paul explains by giving a principle: They are not all Israel which are of (out of) Israel. They are not all Israel who are (descended) from Israel. Just because you have come out of Israel (that is, you are a descendant of Jacob) does not make you a true Israelite. Just because you are a Jew does not make you a true Jew. Just because you are a Jew outwardly does not make you a Jew inwardly (Rom. 2:28-29). Just because you have been circumcised outwardly does not mean that you have been circumcised in the heart (Rom. 2:28-29).

Very good. you are learning

Romans 9:7

Paul now begins to illustrate the principle that you can descend from someone very important and yet not be blessed by God and not be a recipient of God’s promises.

Yes and as a result are rejected. Only a remnant will be saved. Rom 9.27.

It is interesting to notice that Paul first goes to the book of Genesis, illustrating his point from the lives of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. He expects the reader to be very familiar with the book of Genesis.L

and what is his point. That only the elect will be saved.

Later in the chapter he will use the example of Pharaoh, thus assuming that the reader has mastered the contents of Exodus. L

And from Pharaoh he declares. 'He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens. It is all about election

Later in this chapter he will quote from Hosea and Isaiah and he assumes that the reader is familiar with these books.

and from them he makes clear that only a remnant will be saved, the elect,

Remember, in the book of Romans Paul quotes from the Old Testament approximately 60 times!

and he does not mention Israel before rom 9. think of that

It is very tragic that with all the Bibles in circulation today in America, most people are so ignorant of the Bible. F

and even sadder that those who do read it misinterpret it as you are doing

or most people (even church-going people) most of the pages of Scripture are very unfamiliar territory. When you open the Bible, do you find yourself in a strange, unknown territory or do you find yourself in a place that is familiar and very well known? May God help us to be more and more at home in His Word!

it is very familiar territory. I have written commentaries on most of it.

Consider verse 7--Isaac was not the only son of Abraham. Ishmael was the first son born to Abraham and Isaac was born years later. Thus Abraham had two children (two who were of the seed of Abraham) but only one of those children could really say, "I am a true child of Abraham." Physically they were both Abraham’s children, but in the spiritual realm God chose only one of those sons to be the one who would receive the blessings and the promises (see Genesis 17:19-21; 21:12).

true the one elect was called. but the descendant of Ishmael also received promises Gen 17, The same with Jacob and Esau. And the same with Jacob's descendants. It was only the elect who were the true Israel (Rom 11.3 on.)

In the days of Christ the Jews took great pride in being children of Abraham (see Matthew 3:9; John 8:33,37,39,44). The Jews thought that all who came out of Abraham were blessed and recipients of the promises. They mistakenly thought that all who descended from Israel were (true) Israel. They failed to realize that a true Jew must have four FATHERS--Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and GOD!

Jesus said they were not true children of Abraham (john 8.39-40). But they only had three 'fathers', they missed out on the fourth

Compare the Ishmaelites (modern day Arabs) who can claim Abraham as their father. Compare the descendants of Esau (Edomites) who can claim both Abraham and Isaac. Compare the unbelieving Jews in the days of Christ who claimed Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (all three) as their fathers; but the problem was that God was not their father (John 8:42). You need all four to qualify as a true Jew: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and GOD. A person becomes properly related to God only by personal faith!

and that was true of ALL

 

[valiant]

Thats good. Now when we can get you to admit that no temple that was ever placed on this earth every caused the forgiveness of one persons sin. And the temple in Jesus day was basically used as a pagan temple. Then we may find some common ground.

you are misled again. The temple sacrifices in the OT did cause forgiveness of sins as they looked forward to Christ num 15.22 on

furthermore the Temple in Jesus day was used by the faithful in Israel, and by Jesus Himself, as the house of GOD and a house of prayer, and by the Apostles. It was accepted by God then. But there, I knew you were all mixed up.

An abomination does not penetrate a holy of holys,

An abomination was anything connected with idols. it penetrated the holy of holies in Antiochus IV day and again in 70 ad,

It is placed in a holy place to make it unclean, It is used as a took by the enemy to desecrate a temple, and make it unusable for what it was untended to use.

by entering the holy city idols made the holy city unclean, by entering the holy of holies they made the holy of holies unclean. you do not know your bible.

So. it quite clearly could not have happened in 70 AD. The temple was destroyed, thus there was no need to desecrate it,

the holy city and the temple were both desecrated in 70 ad. you just close your eyes to it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you are misled again. The temple sacrifices in the OT did cause forgiveness of sins as they looked forward to Christ num 15.22 on

Hebrews 10:4
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

Your argument is with the word of God.

furthermore the Temple in Jesus day was used by the faithful in Israel, and by Jesus Himself, as the house of GOD and a house of prayer, and by the Apostles. It was accepted by God then. But there, I knew you were all mixed up.

What was the high priest doing in the holy of Holies when our lord was hanging on a tree??

Quite frankly even thinking this is offensive, to think this was used by Israel and thre prieshood as a house of God.

But Yes, Jesus called it a house of God, and when it is rebuilt, and jesus returns, It will still be a house of God.. used the way it was intended, ot to sacrifice, but to praise and worship God.

An abomination was anything connected with idols. it penetrated the holy of holies in Antiochus IV day and again in 70 ad,

Yes, Antiochus put a pig in the temple. and the people had to watch it in their for years, It caused the maccabean revolt. Imagine what it will do when the antichrist puts it there.

70 AD? They destroyed the temple. no need to desecrate a temple that does not exist.

by entering the holy city idols made the holy city unclean, by entering the holy of holies they made the holy of holies unclean. you do not know your bible.

You do not know your history very well. Again, If I destroy a temple. I have no need of defiling the holy of holies, It takes away that effect..

ps. No bible mentioned desecrating a city Only the inner room. (wing of the temple) The temple is not desecrated, th emost holy place is.. So destroying the whole temple defeats the purpose of making the sanctuary unclean.

the holy city and the temple were both desecrated in 70 ad. you just close your eyes to it.

They were destroyed, not desecrated or "made unclean" which is what the term means.