What Do You Think Comes Next - In Biblical Prophecy?

[VCO]

Technically, the Great Tribulation lasts for 2-1/2 years and is the result of man under the influence of Satan. The final year is the Day of the Lord when God intervenes.

Prophecy actually says the Antichrist will reign for a total of Seven Years. Three and a half years as peacefully, and then three and a half years as the most bloodthirsty Dictator that ever lived.

 

[dcontroversal]

So we're now not talking about Isaiah 17 or Jeremiah 50-52, but moved on tosomething else. Ok. I'm going to drop out of the thread for a while since when I start talking about a passage up for discussion, the discussion jumps to something else.

This was in reference to your quote, as it is all relevant.......The woes and burdens of Isaiah and Jeremiah are full of future context and destructions that are indicative of modern weapons when you view what they do such as....

When the DAUGHTER of BABYLON is invaded the people who initially survive the first strike are thrust through with weapons that causes the people to explode down into fragments and pieces when you study the language of said events.....

Interesting to note that HER destruction comes...
1. From under the shadow of a cloud
2. That is lifted to the heavens
3. That has the tempest of a storm
4. Kills all of HER YOUNG MEN OF WAR in one hour
5. Shakes the earth
6. Is heard around the globe
7. COMES from the NORTH
8. Comes from THENCE
9. Comes from between the BLACK and CASPIAN SEAS
10 Is commanded by the THREE RIBS in the BEAR's mouth...The BEAR being lifted on one side and already engaged in SOMETHING.........

It is ALL relative dude to the end and gives insight....By the way the Daughter of BABYLON will be known by HER national symbols...

1. The Eagle
2. CALLED THE LADY OF THE KINGDOMS A.K.A. THE WHORE which SITS ABOVE the 7 (SEVEN) WORLD EMPIRES THAT WOULD SWEEP and exercise some dominion over the MIDDLE EAST in particular Israel...

Egypt-->Assyria-->Babylon-->Persia-->Greece--->Rome--->1o Horned/10 Toed Beast of Revelation/Daniel

Interesting to note that the One nation that hovers over the Middle East for the OIL that is used to drive the economic engine and military machine to hold it all together for the sake of National Interest is?????????

 

[PlainWord]

The Seven Letters to the Churches, were real Churches that represented the Seven types of Churches that would exist at all times throughout Church History, and Christ recognized all SEVEN. They also were a representation of the type of Church that would dominate each age, throughout Church History, and they DID EXACTLY THAT IN THE EXACT ORDER THAT HE LISTED THEM. Therefore the Seven Letters to the Churches can also be viewed as an outline of Church History.

This is your theory. It is not fact!! Nothing in the text states this assumption. You are using conjecture.

The Calling Out of the Bride to go to Heaven for the Wedding of the Lamb (what some call the Rapture) takes place in the white spaces between Rev. 3:22 and Rev. 4:1. (No man knows the day or the Hour.)

"Takes place in the white spaces??" LOL. That's a good one. Another unproven theory using conjecture and wishful thinking....

Therefore Rev. Chapter 4:1 through Rev. 19:21 is that Seven Year Period know as the Great Tribulation.

More conjecture and speculation. There is no passage that states the Tribulation lasts 7 years. There is no passage that tells us the start of the Tribulation is at Rev 4:1 and ends at Rev 19:21.

Rev4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this."

Look at the above. Where does it say that this is the beginning on a 7 year Tribulation period??? It doesn't. This verse actually takes place in AD 95-96. This is when John was taken in spirit to heaven and shown the future.

Let's look at your supposed ending...

Rev 19:

21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

I don't see anything in the above that says this is the end of the Tribulation. More conjecture, more speculation. But we don't need to speculate about the ending. Christ makes crystal clear that the Tribulation is over BEFORE He returns.

Mat 24:

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Tribulation is over in verse 29. The Son has NOT RETURNED YET!!! Immediately after the tribulation the sun, moon and stars will become dark etc. At some point after this the "SIGN" of the Son of Man will appear in heaven. At some point after this, the Son of Man will come on the clouds.

Therefore, there should be NO DOUBT that the Lord comes AFTER the Tribulation. Thus everything in Rev 19 is AFTER the Tribulation.

 

[PlainWord]

Prophecy actually says the Antichrist will reign for a total of Seven Years. Three and a half years as peacefully, and then three and a half years as the most bloodthirsty Dictator that ever lived.

please cite chapter and verse...

 

[VCO]

This is your theory. It is not fact!! Nothing in the text states this assumption. You are using conjecture.



"Takes place in the white spaces??" LOL. That's a good one. Another unproven theory using conjecture and wishful thinking....



More conjecture and speculation. There is no passage that states the Tribulation lasts 7 years. There is no passage that tells us the start of the Tribulation is at Rev 4:1 and ends at Rev 19:21.

Rev4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this."

Look at the above. Where does it say that this is the beginning on a 7 year Tribulation period??? It doesn't. This verse actually takes place in AD 95-96. This is when John was taken in spirit to heaven and shown the future.

Let's look at your supposed ending...

Rev 19:

21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

I don't see anything in the above that says this is the end of the Tribulation. More conjecture, more speculation. But we don't need to speculate about the ending. Christ makes crystal clear that the Tribulation is over BEFORE He returns.

Mat 24:

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Tribulation is over in verse 29. The Son has NOT RETURNED YET!!! Immediately after the tribulation the sun, moon and stars will become dark etc. At some point after this the "SIGN" of the Son of Man will appear in heaven. At some point after this, the Son of Man will come on the clouds.

Therefore, there should be NO DOUBT that the Lord comes AFTER the Tribulation. Thus everything in Rev 19 is AFTER the Tribulation.

Plain, I cut my spiritual eye teeth on the Prophecies of Revelation, and The prophecies of Daniel. Dr. John MacArthur taught a verse by verse study through the Book of Revelation on his "Grace to You" Radio program, back around 1980. That was 37 one hour Sermons; from the President of the Masters College and Seminary. I also had them on Cassette Tapes and relistened to them three more times. Here is a link to that very series, that you can listen to free: Grace to You

Dr. MacArthur, then taught a verse by verse study through the book of Daniel. Here is a link to Dr. John MacArthur's series on the Book of Daniel, which I also listened to four times each: Grace to You

Frankly, I really do not care if you disagree with the teachings of Dr. John MacArthur. I happen to think He is the best Bible Teacher around, and I think his sermons on the Book of Revelation and the Book of Daniel hit the nail right on the head. DO I WANT TO DEBATE IT WITH YOU? NO! I agree with the way Dr. MacArthur taught them, and if you want to believe something else, that is your problem, not mine.

[h=4]

Letters to the Seven Churches[/h]Rev. 2:1-3:22 Although these seven churches were actual, historical churches in Asia Minor, they represent the types of churches that perennially exist throughout the church age. What Christ says to these churches is relevant in all times.

The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

"The seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." The English word candlestick should be lampstand since it holds lamps rather than candles. It represents the seven churches of Asia, as we shall see. Then, in turn, these represent the church as a whole, the church as the body of Christ.

Thru The Bible with J. Vernon McGee.

II. The Things Which Are: Letters From Our Lord (Rev. Chaps 2 & 3)

In chapters 2 and 3, we have individual letters addressed to the seven churches of Asia. The letters may be applied in at least three ways. First of all, they describe conditions that actually existed in the seven local churches at the time John was writing. Secondly, they give a view of Christendom on earth at any one time in its history. The features found in these letters have existed in part, at least, in every century since Pentecost. In this respect, the letters bear marked resemblances to the seven parables of Matthew 13. Finally, the letters give a consecutive preview of the history of Christendom, each church representing a distinct period. The general trend of conditions is downward. Many believe that the first three letters are consecutive and that the last four are concurrent, reaching to the time of the Rapture.
According to the third view, the epochs in the history of the church are generally listed as follows:


Ephesus: The church of the first century was generally praiseworthy but it had already left its first love. Smyrna: From the first to the fourth century, the church suffered persecution under the Roman emperors. Pergamos: During the fourth and fifth centuries, Christianity was recognized as an official religion through Constantine's patronage. Thyatira: From the sixth to the fifteenth century, the Roman Catholic Church largely held sway in Western Christendom until rocked by the Reformation. In the East, the Orthodox Church ruled. Sardis: The sixteenth and seventeenth centuries were the Post-Reformation period. The light of the Reformation soon became dim. Philadelphia: During the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, there were mighty revivals and great missionary movements. Laodicea: The church of the last days is pictured as lukewarm and apostate. It is the church of liberalism and ecumenism.
. . .

Each church has its own distinctive character. Phillips has assigned the following titles, expressing these dominant features: Ephesus, the loveless church; Smyrna, the persecuted church; Pergamos, the over-tolerant church; Thyatira, the compromising church; Sardis, the sleeping church; Philadelphia, the church with opportunity; and Laodicea, the complacent church. Walvoord describes their problems as: (1) losing their first love; (2) fear of suffering; (3) doctrinal defection; (4) moral departure; (5) spiritual deadness; (6) not holding fast; and (7) lukewarmness.

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.

As the contents of the letters are analyzed, it is clear that they are, first, messages to these historic local churches in the first century. Second, they also constitute a message to similar churches today. Third, individual exhortations to persons or groups in the churches make it clear that the messages are intended for individuals today. Fourth, some believe that the order of the seven churches follows the order of various eras in church history from the first century until now.

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Nothing must happen before the rapture, if you believe the doctrine of imminence, nor are any of the Old Testament wars a given as pretribulation events, the opposite indicated of the Ezekiel 38 war. But, until the rapture, a continued trend of all the events indicated in Matthew 24, and getting worse, seems about all anybody can bank on. My two cents. Nickel for inflation.

 

[Kaycie]

Christ's Return and the end of physicality.

 

[VCO]

. . .

Quote VCO: "The Calling Out of the Bride to go to Heaven for the Wedding of the Lamb (what some call the Rapture) takes place in the white spaces between Rev. 3:22 and Rev. 4:1. (No man knows the day or the Hour.)

"Takes place in the white spaces??" LOL. That's a good one. Another unproven theory using conjecture and wishful thinking....

. . .

2 Peter 3:3-4 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."

 

[PlainWord]

Plain, I cut my spiritual eye teeth on the Prophecies of Revelation, and The prophecies of Daniel. Dr. John MacArthur taught a verse by verse study through the Book of Revelation on his "Grace to You" Radio program, back around 1980. That was 37 one hour Sermons; from the President of the Masters College and Seminary. I also had them on Cassette Tapes and relistened to them three more times. Here is a link to that very series, that you can listen to free: Grace to You

Dr. MacArthur, then taught a verse by verse study through the book of Daniel. Here is a link to Dr. John MacArthur's series on the Book of Daniel, which I also listened to four times each: Grace to You

I've heard every Pre-Trib Rapture position known to man. They all have one common problem - they aren't Biblical.

As I've stated before, there is no passage in the Bible ANYWHERE that locates a return of Christ before the Tribulation. There is no passage that states any living person is taken to heaven to avoid the Tribulation. There is no passage where two distinct returns of Christ are found. There is no passage which distinguishes between a Saint and a Trib Era Saint. These are the facts and no amount of experts, teachers or lessons can change these facts.

DO I WANT TO DEBATE IT WITH YOU? NO! I agree with the way Dr. MacArthur taught them, and if you want to believe something else, that is your problem, not mine.

Actually it isn't my problem. I'll stick with the Word of God. I won't be going out to worship the first "Christ" that appears claiming to be God. You can do that if you want.

The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

One man's opinion does NOT alter the Word of God. All the wishful thinking in the World will NOT alter God's plans. The A/C is coming to test the whole world, that means all of us. The only clue we have to know he is false is that he comes first. If you don't get this right, you will be deceived. Plain and simple. I wish you the best.

 

[PlainWord]

2 Peter 3:3-4 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."

This passage deals with believers. I know this because these scoffers acknowledge the Creation. These scoffers will scoff because Christ doesn't return when advertised by the Pre-Tribber. As events worsen and the "rapture" appears more and more imminent, so will the chatter about it. We are already seeing many new movies coming out on the subject.

Those who preach the Pre-Trib Rapture will become more and more discredited as time passes. Unfortunately, you and your pre-Trib friends are the ones who will be scoffed at. When things get really bad, the Man of Sin will appear doing miracles and claiming to be Christ. So many of you will be so thrilled and feeling vindicated that you will run out and worship this False Christ.

Remember what Christ said???

23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.

24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.

These many warnings of Christ (and Paul) do not apply to some undefined "Trib Era" Saint, they apply to all Saints who will be on earth at the time. In your mind, we're gone and this really important warning doesn't apply to you. Because you don't think this warning applies, I worry you won't heed the warning. You will be so eager that "Christ" has come that you will go out.

 

[IAm3rd]

October 8th 2014

 

[VCO]

I've heard every Pre-Trib Rapture position known to man. They all have one common problem - they aren't Biblical.

As I've stated before, there is no passage in the Bible ANYWHERE that locates a return of Christ before the Tribulation. There is no passage that states any living person is taken to heaven to avoid the Tribulation. There is no passage where two distinct returns of Christ are found. There is no passage which distinguishes between a Saint and a Trib Era Saint. These are the facts and no amount of experts, teachers or lessons can change these facts.



Actually it isn't my problem. I'll stick with the Word of God. I won't be going out to worship the first "Christ" that appears claiming to be God. You can do that if you want.



One man's opinion does NOT alter the Word of God. All the wishful thinking in the World will NOT alter God's plans. The A/C is coming to test the whole world, that means all of us. The only clue we have to know he is false is that he comes first. If you don't get this right, you will be deceived. Plain and simple. I wish you the best.

No, you are quite welcome to stay here on earth for the entire Seven years of Tribulation, but we are going to the Wedding of the Lamb whether you have the spiritual understanding or NOT. HINT:

John 14:2-3 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if not, I would have told you. I am going away to prepare a place for you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] If I go away and prepare a place for you, I will come back and receive you to Myself, so that where I am you may be also.

THAT PHRASE COMES RIGHT OUT OF A JEWISH WEDDING PROPOSAL.


You do know enough NOT to take the RFID Chip in your hand or forehead don't you?

 

[VCO]

October 8th 2014

So, what are you a die-hard Harold Camping follower?

 

[Kerry]

Fear begats fear and ignorance begats ignorance.

 

[PlainWord]

No, you are quite welcome to stay here on earth for the entire Seven years of Tribulation, but we are going to the Wedding of the Lamb whether you have the spiritual understanding or NOT. HINT:

John 14:2-3 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if not, I would have told you. I am going away to prepare a place for you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] If I go away and prepare a place for you, I will come back and receive you to Myself, so that where I am you may be also.

THAT PHRASE COMES RIGHT OUT OF A JEWISH WEDDING PROPOSAL.


You do know enough NOT to take the RFID Chip in your hand or forehead don't you?

Yeah, I won't be taking any chips in my hand or forehead, or anything else for that matter.

You cite a passage that is always misinterpreted by the Pre-Tribber. Let me show you how it is supposed to read.

Context!!! Context!!! Context!!! Jesus just finished talking to the disciples about His pending crucifixion and return to heaven. Look back four verses to Ch 13:

36 Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, where are You going?" Jesus answered him, "Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward."

We see Jesus tells Peter that he can't follow Him (Christ) yet but that he can follow Him after (he, Peter dies). So Peter is to follow Christ to heaven!!! Peter will not be here on earth for Christ to "Rapture." Do we agree? So this is the context of verse 14:2.

2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

So we agree on the meaning of verse 2??? Jesus is returning to heaven and once a believer dies, he is taken to heaven to be in the place Christ has prepared (in heaven) for them. This process will remain in place until the Lord returns to earth. So for approx 2,000 years now any believer who dies, his soul goes to heaven to be with Christ and the Father. Jesus comforts His disciples with this knowledge because Jesus knows every single one of them (except Judas) will be joining Him in heaven before He returns. Are we in agreement so far???? No debate so far??? I know this sounds basic but this is important.

Next Jesus employs an oft used teaching technique of the day. He takes an accepted fact (in this case, if I go to prepare a place...) then teaches a new lesson (I will come again...). In the next verse, Jesus teaches what happens when He (Jesus) returns. Keep in mind now we are approx 2,000 years later and counting. The Lord still has not returned, right??

All disciples are long dead and in heaven. Jesus is fully aware that He is not coming back any time soon, certainly not before all of His disciples die.* Therefore, Jesus knows He is returning many years later, therefore Jesus is no longer speaking of His disciples but rather He is speaking of His Elect who will still be on earth when He returns. Are you still with me??? Now read verse 3 in this correct context...

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Jesus states clearly that He will come again and receive (us). In this case the "you" are not the disciples anymore but the ELECT who are still on earth. Where is Christ coming to? Is He coming to heaven? No, He is already there. He comes to Earth or at least in the clouds above Earth, right? Where is it that we are received to?? To Christ, right??? And where is Christ at this time??? He's here on earth - He's not in heaven. So, we are received to Christ here on earth. Turn back to Mat 24:

30 ...the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This agrees 100% with Paul's teaching in 2 Thes 2:

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you..

Paul uses the same term "gather" to describe what Christ does with His Elect. This "gathering" appears in other places as well. Look at Mat 13, the lesson of the wheat and tares:

30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." ' "

Luke 3:17 NKJV

His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire."


His Elect are gathered. Christ makes no mention of returning to heaven with these ELECT after He gathers them in this, or any other, passage. If Christ comes to Earth once, to stay and to reign, is it not logical that when He gathers us that we stay here with Him?? We see that when Jesus returns He's with His 144K. These are His ELECT, His Chosen, His Faithful.

Rev 14:

1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.

4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

Rev 17:14:

These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful."

The "war" is here on earth. Mt. Zion is here on earth, it is not in heaven. Christ has to reign on earth for 1,000 years before there is a wedding, but this is a longer topic. The point is, there is no teaching that any living person is taken to heaven when Christ returns. The teaching is we are gathered (not raptured) by Christ's angels upon His return. Christ rules, and reigns 1,000 years here on earth. He does not return to heaven after he comes back here. I hope this helps?? God Bless!!!

* Jesus tells Peter that he Peter will die and how Peter will glorify Him in death. He goes on to elude that John would live to an old age at the end of the Book of John. Therefore, there cannot and was no imminent return of Christ possible for the disciples. Jesus could not have returned before Peter was dead, or before the Temple was destroyed or even before He gives His Revelation to John in AD 95. There were many other events foretold by Christ to happen in the first century after His ascension such as the coming of the "Helper"/Holy Spirit that were all prerequisites to His return.

 

[tourist]

Yeah, I won't be taking any chips in my hand or forehead, or anything else for that matter.

I like chips too. My favorite brand is Lay's. There are a lot of new and interesting flavors coming out but I prefer plain Ruffles and the Classic Lay's the best. What is your favorite flavor?

 

[JesusLives]

Yeah, I won't be taking any chips in my hand or forehead, or anything else for that matter.

I like chips too. My favorite brand is Lay's. There are a lot of new and interesting flavors coming out but I prefer plain Ruffles and the Classic Lay's the best. What is your favorite flavor?

As we take this thread off the tracks.....I really like Wasabi Ginger and Jalapeno...flavors cause I like it hot.....

 

[tourist]

As we take this thread off the tracks.....I really like Wasabi Ginger and Jalapeno...flavors cause I like it hot.....

This is a very hot post, I probably should take a cold shower...

 

[blue_ladybug]

As we take this thread off the tracks.....I really like Wasabi Ginger and Jalapeno...flavors cause I like it hot.....

Some like it hot
and some sweat when the heat is on!! lol *grins and runs off*

I like the wavy Lay's and I like the salt-n-vinegar flavor. BBQ is good too. I also like the dill pickle flavor.

 

[gzusfrk]

Some like it hot
and some sweat when the heat is on!! lol *grins and runs off*

I like the wavy Lay's and I like the salt-n-vinegar flavor. BBQ is good too. I also like the dill pickle flavor.

I dont think you can like the dill flavor and be a Christian, you have to like the sour cream and onion. As for the next prophecy I dont think about that much, I am busy trying to walk the walk, as Jesus taught.