What does this mean: "I have said, Ye are gods..."
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
7
Bill...I'm the one that contradicted this little gods stuff in the other thread and posted far more than the op here
he has simply decided to start another thread on it
I just wrote that I am disappointed in what I read in this thread...I'm serious...the responses indicate serious misunderstandings
here is one of my posts from the other thread regarding Jesus reference to the Psalm and the term little gods:
he has simply decided to start another thread on it
I just wrote that I am disappointed in what I read in this thread...I'm serious...the responses indicate serious misunderstandings
here is one of my posts from the other thread regarding Jesus reference to the Psalm and the term little gods:
7
here is another post I wrote complete with the post I was answering regarding little gods
Originally Posted by know1
Yes, Jesus is telling us that we are gods. The way He put it, "I said, ye are gods", regardless of the fact that we are all going to die, we are what Jesus said we are.
We are not only made in His image, after His likeness, but we are sons and daughters of the Most High God.
Like Jesus, we have authority over demons, in His name, by His word.
Like God, we can send His word, which is the power of God, to heal, if we have faith, or to cast out, and it is the word we send itself that does the work.
Like God, death and life is in the power of our tongue.
But God is the one who creates the fruit of our lips.
We are just too ignorant of Christ to walk in the fullness of the new covenant He provided for us.
this is false
the word 'gods' does not mean a celestial being in this case. and it does not mean offspring of the true God nor does it mean any sort of deity at all. this is one of the abject teachings of WOF and an example of what we can expect when we examine the way scripture is broken down to mean whatever WOF wants it to mean, which, is always in keeping with their own private interpretation and which is never more illustriously wrong than in this case
if someone would like to make the case for 'gods' meaning godlike or as a god in this instance, then perhaps they should also take note of the following:
God presides in the great assembly;he renders judgment among the “gods”:
it seems God is juding the gods here which may present difficulty for those who adhere to the interpretation that God does not judge believers. gods or not, God is judging you
The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.They walk about in darkness;
well, now, you gods know nothing and you understand nothing. you walk about in darkness
it is after these verses, that we have
I said, ‘You are “gods”;you are all sons of the Most High
and then, the 'gods' are told they shall all die
But you will die like mere mortals;you will fall like every other ruler
well when read in context, not leaving out the verses before and after the WOF belief that Jesus is calling them 'gods', things start to fall apart. at any rate, you are all going to die
now let's look at what is ACTUALLY being said
the use of the word 'gods', Elohim, is also translated as 'judges' in Exodus 21:6, 22: 8& 9 and v. 28. The Psalm that Jesus is quoting from, Psalm 82, is not speaking of mortals as gods. Reading the Psalm in context...as displayed above...would render that interpretation just plain silly. The gods would be being judged, they would be in darkness and all of them sentenced to death...not quite the happy ending some think it is. But see, that is what happens when you strip a verse of its context and try to make it mean something else. it ends up meaning nothing and becomes the tool of false teachers and people become confused.
fact: Jesus was referring to rulers...not gods as has been proposed in this thread
this is a WOF favorite, even though the author may state his ideas come from the Bible (they most certainly do not...if you rip a verse out of context and try to make it say what you believe, and what you say is not in keeping with the rest of the verses, then you have simply shown a sad lack of ability to understand scripture and have fallen on the idea that if you 'think' something is being said, then you must be right.
scripture is not open to personal interpretation.
a fact that many either fail to acknowledge or believe that they have somehow been given greater liberty than others
(which of course is actually called being misled and coming up with false doctrines) *
*This use of the word “gods” to refer to humans is rare, but it is found elsewhere in the Old Testament. For example, when God sent Moses to Pharaoh, He said, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1). This simply means that Moses, as the messenger of God, was speaking God’s words and would therefore be God’s representative to the king. The Hebrew word Elohim is translated “judges” in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8, 9,
We are not only made in His image, after His likeness, but we are sons and daughters of the Most High God.
Like Jesus, we have authority over demons, in His name, by His word.
Like God, we can send His word, which is the power of God, to heal, if we have faith, or to cast out, and it is the word we send itself that does the work.
Like God, death and life is in the power of our tongue.
But God is the one who creates the fruit of our lips.
We are just too ignorant of Christ to walk in the fullness of the new covenant He provided for us.
this is false
the word 'gods' does not mean a celestial being in this case. and it does not mean offspring of the true God nor does it mean any sort of deity at all. this is one of the abject teachings of WOF and an example of what we can expect when we examine the way scripture is broken down to mean whatever WOF wants it to mean, which, is always in keeping with their own private interpretation and which is never more illustriously wrong than in this case
if someone would like to make the case for 'gods' meaning godlike or as a god in this instance, then perhaps they should also take note of the following:
God presides in the great assembly;he renders judgment among the “gods”:
it seems God is juding the gods here which may present difficulty for those who adhere to the interpretation that God does not judge believers. gods or not, God is judging you
The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.They walk about in darkness;
well, now, you gods know nothing and you understand nothing. you walk about in darkness
it is after these verses, that we have
I said, ‘You are “gods”;you are all sons of the Most High
and then, the 'gods' are told they shall all die
But you will die like mere mortals;you will fall like every other ruler
well when read in context, not leaving out the verses before and after the WOF belief that Jesus is calling them 'gods', things start to fall apart. at any rate, you are all going to die
now let's look at what is ACTUALLY being said
the use of the word 'gods', Elohim, is also translated as 'judges' in Exodus 21:6, 22: 8& 9 and v. 28. The Psalm that Jesus is quoting from, Psalm 82, is not speaking of mortals as gods. Reading the Psalm in context...as displayed above...would render that interpretation just plain silly. The gods would be being judged, they would be in darkness and all of them sentenced to death...not quite the happy ending some think it is. But see, that is what happens when you strip a verse of its context and try to make it mean something else. it ends up meaning nothing and becomes the tool of false teachers and people become confused.
fact: Jesus was referring to rulers...not gods as has been proposed in this thread
this is a WOF favorite, even though the author may state his ideas come from the Bible (they most certainly do not...if you rip a verse out of context and try to make it say what you believe, and what you say is not in keeping with the rest of the verses, then you have simply shown a sad lack of ability to understand scripture and have fallen on the idea that if you 'think' something is being said, then you must be right.
scripture is not open to personal interpretation.
a fact that many either fail to acknowledge or believe that they have somehow been given greater liberty than others
(which of course is actually called being misled and coming up with false doctrines) *
*This use of the word “gods” to refer to humans is rare, but it is found elsewhere in the Old Testament. For example, when God sent Moses to Pharaoh, He said, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1). This simply means that Moses, as the messenger of God, was speaking God’s words and would therefore be God’s representative to the king. The Hebrew word Elohim is translated “judges” in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8, 9,
In John 10:26 that should remind you of the prior discussion of HIM being the DOOR to the sheepfold who gives ETERNAL LIFE to whom it pleases HIM
But those who questioned HIM again in John 10 questioned HIM
BECAUSE THEY DID NOT BELIEVE and Jesus said they did not believe because they were not HIS SHEEP
But those who questioned HIM again in John 10 questioned HIM
BECAUSE THEY DID NOT BELIEVE and Jesus said they did not believe because they were not HIS SHEEP
According to JESUS a man can not enter in any other way but THE DOORAnd HE correctly refers to HIMSELF as THE DOOR
1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
7
sorry Bill. missed where you asked about the other thread...it is actually an old thread from 2012 that someone started up again
here's the link...vid is towards the end
WORD OF FAITH MOVEMENT
here's the link...vid is towards the end
WORD OF FAITH MOVEMENT
22And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
O25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30I and my Father are one.
(“Again” and “as I said unto you” clearly imply that this was not a new discussion between JESUS and the unbelieving Jews)
31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. 39Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
Many across the Jordan Believe
40And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode. 41And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true. 42And many believed on him there.
The whole discussion and statement that “ye are gods” to the unbelieving Jews was due to their unbelief that HE indeed is THE SON of GOD and THE DOOR and can give eternal life to whom HE pleases
O25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30I and my Father are one.
(“Again” and “as I said unto you” clearly imply that this was not a new discussion between JESUS and the unbelieving Jews)
31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. 39Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
Many across the Jordan Believe
40And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode. 41And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true. 42And many believed on him there.
The whole discussion and statement that “ye are gods” to the unbelieving Jews was due to their unbelief that HE indeed is THE SON of GOD and THE DOOR and can give eternal life to whom HE pleases
Last edited:
Perhaps this has been answered, but the word "gods" is a translation of the Hebrew word "elohim" (plural). It is primarily applicable to the triune Godhead, since it is also a uniplural word. It confirms the existence of the Trinity within One God. When you see "LORD God" in the Old Testament, that is a translation of YHWH (or YHVH) Elohim (with LORD in small capitals denoting Yahweh or Jehovah). But it is also used for false gods and here it is used for the judges of Israel, as representatives of God, and also have delegated Divine authority to render judgments on His behalf. Unfortunately they had all become corrupt and that is what you see in Psalm 82.
Last edited:
Jesus did not tell anyone that they were gods. Look at the double quotes. Jesus is quoting the psalm. Jesus said they were "called" gods in the psalm not that they actually were gods. They were actually judges. I call my wife "honey" but she is not actually manufactured by bees. Being in the image of God does not mean we are actually a god just like a penny being in the image of Abraham Lincoln does not mean it is actually a human being. Gosh people get a clue here. Your polytheism is not appreciated in heaven.
God has no outward glory but does have a representative glory by the things he has made, calling them good to represent his glory . Hidden glory is in view. That veil will be lifted when we receive our glorious new incorruptible bodies after we shed the these flesh and blood bodies of death.
And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded. And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him. Exo 34:33
Their eyes were opened (verse 7), but they did not become like God, (no form), the fading glory as light represented glory of being in the presence of God. Choosing to do the will of another, It had begun its work of revealing they surely would die, because of the corruption..
In respect to his outward corrupted appearance as flesh and blood there was no claim he was God but a god, as one created in the likeness of God in respect to no form. God is Spirit and not a man as us.. When approached in his outward flesh and called good master knowing only one is our master in respect to the father not seen ..the Son of man replied only God not seen is good we walk by that faith seeing it is of God and not after the flesh of any man to include the flesh of Christ which he said cannot propfit. .We walk (understand)by the unseen eternal not after that seen the temporal.
As children of light as gods, before the fall mankind could not see the hidden form like the light that shone on the face of Moses when he was in the presence of God . When they experienced doing the will of another, as evil. They saw their nakedness of a fading glory that came from being in the presence of the father of light.
Blasphemy against that seen is forgivable. Blasphemy against that not see as in the garden brought death and not suspended animation.
O
All the verses are not from English, they are Hebrew. Or quotes from that language.
there is a disconnect if people wont keep that in mind ; then it might be an excuse to make a new doctrine or something . Just because how it looks in English .
It can mean in the NT, that we belong to God, ( we are God's: belonging to Him Ezekiel 18:4 ) .
Or , its Elohim when God uses Judges, or people like Moses, to represent him.
Exodus 7:1
god. i.e. in God's stead. Elohim = one appointed by oath. Elohim is thus used of those so given and appointed
Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.
Read Exodus chapter 4, where God plans whos will do what. Exodus 4:16. Prophet.
Look at Moses as issuing commands, and Aaron like a prophet.
Its a Hebrew term, for someone standing in representing God.
there is a disconnect if people wont keep that in mind ; then it might be an excuse to make a new doctrine or something . Just because how it looks in English .
It can mean in the NT, that we belong to God, ( we are God's: belonging to Him Ezekiel 18:4 ) .
Or , its Elohim when God uses Judges, or people like Moses, to represent him.
Exodus 7:1
god. i.e. in God's stead. Elohim = one appointed by oath. Elohim is thus used of those so given and appointed
Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.
Read Exodus chapter 4, where God plans whos will do what. Exodus 4:16. Prophet.
Look at Moses as issuing commands, and Aaron like a prophet.
Its a Hebrew term, for someone standing in representing God.
Last edited:
No enoch, bluto does not make mistakes, especially on this issue. Before I address you post could you please use PARAGRAPHS in you post instead of us reading ONE continuous sentence. Thank you, I hope.
Now, you said this: "Some bibles do say that. The original meaning is in John 1:14, Jesus is the only begotten Son. begotten means He took on flesh to dwell among us. Jesus is the only Son who was begotten. He is our champion." When the Apostle John wrote John 3:16 under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit what do you think he/John had in mind? What was the point John was trying to impress upon the reader?
So enoch, can you please tell me what the Greek word "monogenes/begotten" in English means? You stated above it means "He took on flesh" and then you quoted John 1:14. What is the second meaning of "mongenes" and how is it used in Scripture, please give me an example or two.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Now, you said this: "Some bibles do say that. The original meaning is in John 1:14, Jesus is the only begotten Son. begotten means He took on flesh to dwell among us. Jesus is the only Son who was begotten. He is our champion." When the Apostle John wrote John 3:16 under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit what do you think he/John had in mind? What was the point John was trying to impress upon the reader?
So enoch, can you please tell me what the Greek word "monogenes/begotten" in English means? You stated above it means "He took on flesh" and then you quoted John 1:14. What is the second meaning of "mongenes" and how is it used in Scripture, please give me an example or two.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
NIV and ESV have Jesus as the one and only Son. footnote in ESV for John 1:14 says another word for only is unique.
Monogenes theos is in John 1:18 often translated the only Son, God but the literal meaning as I understand is One Family (of) God. I conclude that Jesus is the only Son who took on flesh to dwell among us. in John 1:14 I understand the Greek word is Jesus tabernacle with us.
Law of first mention, John 1:14 Jesus is the only Son who was begotten into human form.
So when in other places in John where Jesus is called the only Son and since only also means unique which I assume applies to Isaac in Genesis 20 where Abraham was told to sacrifice his only son, Isaac uniquely begotten, the son of Abraham's and Sarah's old age.
Since Jesus is the only Son who took on flesh to dwell among us, (we both agree with this) , we will disagree on whether there are other sons.
John 10, Ye are gods refers to Psalms 82. Read the first verse. Jesus is the head of the divine counsel (King James), Jesus is the head of the mighty in other bibles.
Ps. 82:1 refers to the princes of Daniel called archangels by Jude.
I conclude that the princes are not created.
Because modern bibles have Luke 9:35, This is my chosen Son. And all bibles have Hebrews 1:8-9, Jesus was anointed from His companions, I conclude that Jesus's companions could have been chosen but the Father chose the Son who would be obedient in all things.
The archetype is Abel and Cain. God choose Abel and his sacrifice but rejected Cain and his sacrifice. Cain took it personally, grew jealous and killed Abel. Hebrews 11:4, 12:24. Abel represents Jesus. Cain represents Satan.
Without the modern translation of Luke 9:35, I would not have understood that Jesus was chosen from the other sons of God.
I don't base my understanding on one verse but Luke 9:35 opens me to understand Hebrews 1:8-9 and the archetypes of the youngest son who is chosen to be the most important and explains what caused Satan's rebellion. The Septuagint and Catholic bible in Ezekiel 28 does not have Satan as an angel. The Masoretic and Protestant Bibles do have Satan as a angel.