What does this mean: "I have said, Ye are gods..."

[Shamah]

82:6, "אֲנִי־אָמַרְתִּי H559 אֱלֹהִים H430 אַתֶּם וְּבְנֵי עֶלְיֹון H5945 כֻּלְּכֶם"

elohim simply means mighty one(s)

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 82:1-8, “Elohim stands in the congregation of Ěl; He judges in the midst of the elohim [FONT=Times New Roman, serif](H430)[/FONT]. How long would you judge perversely, And show partiality to the wrong? Selah. Give right-ruling to the poor and fatherless, Do right to the afflicted and needy. Rescue the poor and needy; Deliver them from the hand of the wrong. They do not know, nor do they understand, They walk about in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken. I, I said, “You are elohim (H430), And all of you are sons of the Most High. But as men you die, And fall as one of the heads.” Arise, O Elohim, judge the earth, For You shall possess all the nations.”[/FONT]

 

[JaumeJ]

Elohim may be translated to Englisha as mighty men or mighty ones. It was used as the word, god, is used today for dieties in general.

El is the singular, and it also means might one or mighty man. It was also used to make direct reference to the Maker of all that is.

When people would refer to Greek dieties they used the word, elohim in in reference, but not as adonai or Yahweh. Yahweh came later than did elohim, for it was given by the true Creator of all that is as a handy reference to Him, that is the one who is Self-Existing.

Yahweh is from the verb Hayay, and to be used as the name for our Father, actually it is more his Attribute. He wills Himself to be, none other can do this.

Yahweh is not a name, the name of God, according to Zephaniah, will be given to all when a pure language is given to all for us to call upon Him by one name.

The closest we have to a name for God is Jesus, which is transliterated last from the Latin Yeshu, then from the Greek Iesous, and finally from the Hebrew Yeshua. That latter actually may be translated to all languages, however it is not. In English one may say the Salvation of Yahweh, Yahweh Redeemer.

Yeshiyahu is the tranliteration of Isaiah, which is most likely an earlier version of Yeshua. King David¡s name means beloved and he was the son of Jesse, or, Yeshi, my redeemer.

Here we have King Beloved son of My Redeemer if yo will, but most wil not preferring the understanding that popular consensus yields.

I have said you are mighty ones, but you will die like beasts.

In Hebrew, when אֱלֹהִ֑ים Elohiym refers to deity it is ALWAYS to the one true (triune) God.

When 'gods' is intended אֱלֹהח֣י elohay is used.

The Hebrew word אֱלֹהִֽים Elohiym does NOT always signify deity. When applied to people it always signifies mighty in a political or military sense. note that the הִֽ he is accented with a הֽ megeth instead of an ה֑ atnah.

 

[LightLoveHope]

You are a polytheist.

Why do you say this about FollowJesus?
Is there something you do not like in his sharing?
I ask, because if FollowJesus is as you say, I would need to change my thoughts
about interacting with him, and I do not want to do this on mere hearsay.
Is this not a believers site, holding to the evangelical declarations?

 

[JaumeJ]

You are a polytheist.

Is your reference here to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit being multiple gods of some sort?

If this is the case you are limiting yourself with your mind and material understanding in place of faith
that God will manifest Himself in whatever manner kpleases Him.

God is One, yet Jesus is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. I will not lie and say I
understand all of the mystery of this truth, but it is truth, and god is one.

Faith underscored the confidence I have in this. Isaiah does give a major indication to this in his
chapter 9 verse 6, where he is given to write down about the child to be born to the virgin as being
called such titles as Father Almighty, Ruler of Peace, Counselor and much more.

Yahweh has declared throughout the Old Testament in various writings that He is our King, that He is our Spouse, and that He is our Redeemer.

Reading the Word in faith will underscore the truth that God is what He will be, and what He has told us by means of the Holy Spirit is more than sufficient to believe Him always.

 

[JesusLives]

Could it be a punctuation error? Really just asking a question here.

When it says in Psalm 82 I said You are God's that it means we are God's possession since Jesus died and paid the price for us? That there was an error made in the translation since the next verse says.

And all of you are children of the Most High...

Truly just asking a question.

 

[JaumeJ]

They system and rules of grammar in Biblical Hebrew do not allow for any punctuation marks for indicating the possessive. Instead letters and/or word arrangement indicates possessive.

In the Hebrew is says "you are gods" in their wording. Keep in mind the word for gods was elohim, and it is translated as mighty ones or mighty men, and it was applied to gods in general. It does not translate as lord although it is interchangeable with it in common usage today.

Could it be a punctuation error? Really just asking a question here.

When it says in Psalm 82 I said You are God's that it means we are God's possession since Jesus died and paid the price for us? That there was an error made in the translation since the next verse says.

And all of you are children of the Most High...

Truly just asking a question.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Why do you say this about FollowJesus?
Is there something you do not like in his sharing?
I ask, because if FollowJesus is as you say, I would need to change my thoughts
about interacting with him, and I do not want to do this on mere hearsay.
Is this not a believers site, holding to the evangelical declarations?

I say this because he is following the WOF tactic when confronted with his liitle god doctrine: deny it then restate his belief in it without using the phrase "a god".

 

[JaumeJ]

PS......everything anyone knows about Jesus Christ being crucified for the sins of all is true and all that need beknow and believed for salvation, but keep in mind believing is not with the mouth only but with the heart, soul and mind,amen.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Is your reference here to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit being multiple gods of some sort?

If this is the case you are limiting yourself with your mind and material understanding in place of faith
that God will manifest Himself in whatever manner kpleases Him.

God is One, yet Jesus is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. I will not lie and say I
understand all of the mystery of this truth, but it is truth, and god is one.

Faith underscored the confidence I have in this. Isaiah does give a major indication to this in his
chapter 9 verse 6, where he is given to write down about the child to be born to the virgin as being
called such titles as Father Almighty, Ruler of Peace, Counselor and much more.

Yahweh has declared throughout the Old Testament in various writings that He is our King, that He is our Spouse, and that He is our Redeemer.

Reading the Word in faith will underscore the truth that God is what He will be, and what He has told us by means of the Holy Spirit is more than sufficient to believe Him always.

No. I was referring to his comments saying among other things, that we are gods because we have the nature of God.

 

[Shamah]

82:6, "אֲנִי־אָמַרְתִּי H559 אֱלֹהִים H430 אַתֶּם וְּבְנֵי עֶלְיֹון H5945 כֻּלְּכֶם"

elohim simply means mighty one(s)

Psalms 82:1-8, “Elohim stands in the congregation of Ěl; He judges in the midst of the elohim (H430). How long would you judge perversely, And show partiality to the wrong? Selah. Give right-ruling to the poor and fatherless, Do right to the afflicted and needy. Rescue the poor and needy; Deliver them from the hand of the wrong. They do not know, nor do they understand, They walk about in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken. I, I said, “You are elohim (H430), And all of you are sons of the Most High. But as men you die, And fall as one of the heads.” Arise, O Elohim, judge the earth, For You shall possess all the nations.”

these "elohim" could be angels/fallen angels or humans who have chose their own path, more likely angels/fallen angels because the "sons" remark.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 1:6-7, “And the day came to be that the sons of Elohim came to present themselves before [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and Satan also came among them. And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to Satan, “From where do you come?” And Satan answered [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and said, “From diligently searching in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Job 38:4-7, “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if you have understanding. Who set its measurements, if you know? Or who stretched the line upon it? Upon what were its foundations sunk? Or who laid its corner-stone, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of Elohim shouted for joy?”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 6:1-7, “And it came to be, when men began to increase on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of Elohim saw the daughters of men, that they were good. And they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever in his going astray. He is flesh, and his days shall be one hundred and twenty years. The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of Elohim came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, the men of name. And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said, “I am going to wipe off man whom I have created from the face of the ground, both man and beast, creeping creature and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.”

[/FONT]

82:6, "אֲנִי־אָמַרְתִּי H559 אֱלֹהִים H430 אַתֶּם וְּבְנֵי עֶלְיֹון H5945 כֻּלְּכֶם"

elohim simply means mighty one(s)

Psalms 82:1-8, “Elohim stands in the congregation of Ěl; He judges in the midst of the elohim (H430). How long would you judge perversely, And show partiality to the wrong? Selah. Give right-ruling to the poor and fatherless, Do right to the afflicted and needy. Rescue the poor and needy; Deliver them from the hand of the wrong. They do not know, nor do they understand, They walk about in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken. I, I said, “You are elohim (H430), And all of you are sons of the Most High. But as men you die, And fall as one of the heads.” Arise, O Elohim, judge the earth, For You shall possess all the nations.”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 14:12-16, “How you have fallen from heaven, child of the light! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart; I will ascend above the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of YHWH. I will sit in the highest place on the holy mountain ofthe congregation. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High. Yet you will be brought down to Sheol; the grave, to the sides ofthe pit. Those who see you will stare at you, and they will talk about you, saying; Is this the one; the adversary, who shook the earth, and made kingdoms tremble?”[/FONT]

 

[Nehemiah6]

Could it be a punctuation error? Really just asking a question here. When it says in Psalm 82 I said You are God's that it means we are God's possession since Jesus died and paid the price for us?

As already explained this has nothing to do with Christ dying and paying the penalty for our sins. Psalm 82 is addressed to the unjust magistrates of Israel.

That there was an error made in the translation since the next verse says And all of you are children of the Most High...

This is similar to what we read in Acts 17:29: Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

When it means that human beings are God's creation being made in His image. It does not mean that everyone is born again and have automatically become "children of God".

 

[JaumeJ]

Here blow is the source of the quote in the New Testament.......
Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of God; He judgeth among the gods.
Psa 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, And respect the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Psa 82:3 Judge the poor and fatherless: Do justice to the afflicted and destitute.
Psa 82:4 Rescue the poor and needy: Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psa 82:5 They know not, neither do they understand; They walk to and fro in darkness: All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
Psa 82:6 I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
Psa 82:7 Nevertheless ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.
Psa 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth; For thou shalt inherit all the nations.

No. I was referring to his comments saying among other things, that we are gods because we have the nature of God.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I say this because he is following the WOF tactic when confronted with his liitle god doctrine: deny it then restate his belief in it without using the phrase "a god".

Thankyou for this.

Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble.
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.
1 Peter 3:8-9

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.

1 Peter 2:9-11

Sounds like we are called to be loving people, and no special authority is needed to do this.
If people had transformation authority, that would be something, rather than obedience and
faithfulness, which actually takes ones heart and commitment. But this is our road.

 

[Angela53510]

In Hebrew, when אֱלֹהִ֑ים Elohiym refers to deity it is ALWAYS to the one true (triune) God.

When 'gods' is intended אֱלֹהח֣י elohay is used.

The Hebrew word אֱלֹהִֽים Elohiym does NOT always signify deity. When applied to people it always signifies mighty in a political or military sense. note that the הִֽ he is accented with a הֽ megeth instead of an ה֑ atnah.

I wish I could repost this a 100 times!

I learned something today! The difference between an atnah and a megeth! (Of course I know the terms, but I have never seen it applied in this manner, and so essential!) And how hard it is to translate that into English.



אֱלֹהִ֑ים - Elohiym - diety - one true (triune) God

אֱלֹהח֣י - elohay - gods

אֱלֹהִֽים - Elohiym. - judges or mighty in the political or military sense.

Notice that theהִֽ is different in the word Elohim which means God, than the הִ֑ in the word

that means judges! It may be subtle, but not one "jot or tittle" will be lost. Yes, small accents mean that much, in Hebrew.

Thanks, Marc, for your knowledge of Hebrew!

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Here blow is the source of the quote in the New Testament.......
Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of God; He judgeth among the gods.
Psa 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, And respect the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Psa 82:3 Judge the poor and fatherless: Do justice to the afflicted and destitute.
Psa 82:4 Rescue the poor and needy: Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psa 82:5 They know not, neither do they understand; They walk to and fro in darkness: All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
Psa 82:6 I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
Psa 82:7 Nevertheless ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.
Psa 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth; For thou shalt inherit all the nations.

I already know that but thanks anyway.

 

[jaybird88]

Jesus never told anybody they were a god. If you think you are a god then you are a blasphemer: “You must not have any other god but me." Exodus 20:3 NLT, and under God's curse: “Tell them this: ‘These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.’ ”
Jeremiah 10:11 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/jer.10.11.NIV

Jesus did in fact teach that believers will become sons of the Most High.
the Psalm passage has the Father calling sons of the Most High gods.

 

[bluto]

Bluto, where in john 1 does it say that jesus was begotten in human terms. you wrote that I interpret begotten according to the wrong tense. where in john 1 is the conceived by thr holy spirit in the virgin mary tense used?

since you know greek please explain why the chosen of luke 9:35 is the wrong word. I know only the blue letter bible which is king james

First of all enoch, I am not a Greek Scholar by any means. I do know how to use a Lexicon and I suggest you learn as well. Now, your still missing the point that I am making. All I am saying is the John 3:16 has nothing to do with Jesus coming in the flesh. John 1 addresses that issue. John 3:16 is addressing the preeminence of Jesus Christ and not His birth.

You even yourself gave an example of Abraham's son Isaac as an example that even though he was considered "begotten" it was in the sense of having preeminence/position even though he was not the first born. Secondly, at Luke 9:35 there is "NOTHING" wrong with the word "chosen." My point to you was to show you that "chosen" in the verse does not necessarily mean Jesus was chosen from other sons who were not chosen one's. In other words, the verse does not mean Jesus happen to be chosen from others. That is "NOT" the sense of the verse.

In fact, look at Luke 2:11, "for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, WHO IS CHIRST THE LORD." Jesus Christ was already the Savior and Christ the Lord from all eternity, which means He was NOT chosen from others. Btw, as a side note this is an excellent verse to combat the unitarians and others who use Acts 2:36 that God has "MADE" Jesus Christ both Lord and Christ. They understand the word "made" to mean that He was chosen to be the Lord and Christ when Luke 2:11 says He already was the Savior and the Lord/Chirst.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[jaybird88]

I wish I could repost this a 100 times!

I learned something today! The difference between an atnah and a megeth! (Of course I know the terms, but I have never seen it applied in this manner, and so essential!) And how hard it is to translate that into English.



אֱלֹהִ֑ים - Elohiym - diety - one true (triune) God

אֱלֹהח֣י - elohay - gods

אֱלֹהִֽים - Elohiym. - judges or mighty in the political or military sense.

Notice that theהִֽ is different in the word Elohim which means God, than the הִ֑ in the word

that means judges! It may be subtle, but not one "jot or tittle" will be lost. Yes, small accents mean that much, in Hebrew.

Thanks, Marc, for your knowledge of Hebrew!

what does judges mean? judges of this world (men) or angels / gods / sons of the Most High judges?
the passage calls them judges so i dont think there has ever been a question of whether or not they where judges, but what kind of judges?

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Jesus did in fact teach that believers will become sons of the Most High.
the Psalm passage has the Father calling sons of the Most High gods.

The Bible says we are sons of God only by adoption. We are not little gods. The Bible never says we are gods.

 

[jaybird88]

The Bible says we are sons of God only by adoption. We are not little gods. The Bible never says we are gods.

so when the Almighty says sons of the Most High are in fact gods, is this an error?