What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED believer?

[Flamingspirit]

(In other words the various baptisms done by various denominations and churches mean absolutely nothing.)

you judge for yourself what it means

Acts 19:1-6King James Version (KJV)
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.



have you received the HS since you believed? he did not respond by saying they did not truly believe...he responded by asking Unto what then were ye baptized?

the scripture does not say they were spirit baptised ...it says they were baptised in the name of Jesus..... and when Paul laid his hands the Holy Ghost came upon them....

What did this MEAN? Not arguing the verse, only its meaning. Again be Ye transformed by the renewing of your mind!

 

[watty]

Such a believer will no longer be posting on CC, but, in the spirit of kicking around this water baptism question on another thread like some cyber mobius strip that never ends, just ponder this verse for awhile,

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.

Now, why doesn't somebody here rather prove from the Bible that every mention of baptism in the New Testament, with no mention of water, is even referring to water baptism? You think possibly not? Just a hint.

Water is symbolic of the Holy Spirit and fire. Baptism means total immersion. Can a person be total immersed in fire and live? Even Jesus who could have lived through a fire immersion didn't do it. Baptism is a commandment just like taking communion. We are not in reality eating the flesh of Jesus or drinking his blood. Baptism won't save you in itself. Refusing to be obedient and failure to follow the commandments with intent will be most disappointing to God. I can't tell you who will be saved or not, that is not my job. I can tell what God wants us to do.

 

[notuptome]

(In other words the various baptisms done by various denominations and churches mean absolutely nothing.)

Pretty close to true.

have you received the HS since you believed? he did not respond by saying they did not truly believe...he responded by asking Unto what then were ye baptized?

the scripture does not say they were spirit baptised ...it says they were baptised in the name of Jesus..... and when Paul laid his hands the Holy Ghost came upon them....

This baptism was a filling for power just like the evidence in Acts 2. For the disciples the regenerating Holy Spirit was breathed on them by Christ in the upper room. John 20. The sinner is converted and baptized in the Holy Spirit the moment they believe and receive Christ. Believers are filled with Holy Spirit power ideally many times in their life as they serve the Lord and call upon His strength to testify of Gods saving grace and endure the trials of this life.

I continue to be impressed with how you can distort simple truths from the word of God to support heretical doctrines.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[newbirth]

What did this MEAN? Not arguing the verse, only its meaning. Again be Ye transformed by the renewing of your mind!

Simple the old man obeyed the dictates of the flesh the new man must obey the dictates of the spirit....our actions are birth in our minds, we must feed our minds with the things of God so our actions will be after the things of God....

 

[SeaBass]

This is a serious error and cause me to question how anyone who makes such a statement could consider themselves saved. This is a cardinal doctrine of Christianity.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Again, there is not a single verse that promises anyone today baptism with the Holy Spirit. This idea is made up by those who do not like that fact God made water baptism the point as to where He saves.

 

[SeaBass]

Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 2 unto the church of God which is at Corinth, even them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, their Lord and ours: 3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 2 unto the church of God which is at Corinth, even them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, their Lord and ours: 3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


1 Cor is written to all believers in every place, including 21st Century. It is paradigmatic for today:

This passage is relevant to today. We are still in the Church age:


For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of the body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ. 13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; it is not therefore not of the body. 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; it is not therefore not of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members each one of them in the body, even as it pleased him.

Nothing you posted above promises baptism with the Holy Spirit to anyone today. You are reading that idea into the texts.

There is one baptism in effect, Eph 4:5 and that one baptism is Christ's baptism of the great commission, Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:15,16 that has commissioned disciples/humans to administer water baptism as Paul did in 1 Cor 1:14,16; as Phillip did with the eunuch, Acts 8. Since 1 Cor 1:14,16 is human administered water baptism so is 1 Cor 12;113 else you create two baptism not ONE per Eph 4:5.
Jn 3:5--------Spirit++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor12:13--Spirit++++++++++baptism>>>>>>>>>inthe body

 

[newbirth]

Pretty close to true.
This baptism was a filling for power just like the evidence in Acts 2. For the disciples the regenerating Holy Spirit was breathed on them by Christ in the upper room. John 20. The sinner is converted and baptized in the Holy Spirit the moment they believe and receive Christ. Believers are filled with Holy Spirit power ideally many times in their life as they serve the Lord and call upon His strength to testify of Gods saving grace and endure the trials of this life.

I continue to be impressed with how you can distort simple truths from the word of God to support heretical doctrines.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The sinner is converted and baptized in the Holy Spirit the moment they believe and receive Christ.(your version)

scripture version
[h=1]Acts 2:38Living Bible (TLB)[/h] [SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter replied, “Each one of you must turn from sin, return to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; then you also shall receive this gift, the Holy Spirit.



[h=1]Acts 2:38Names of God Bible (NOG)[/h] [SUP]38 [/SUP]Peter answered them, “All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Yeshua Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

[h=1]Acts 2:38American Standard Version (ASV)[/h] [SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


[h=1]Acts 2:38King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[h=1]Acts 2:38New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]38 [/SUP]Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[dcontroversal]

They are saved and will be in heaven....

to the rest of the foolishness about where Jesus went and where he is now pay attention to the following...

Before the sin debt had been paid by Jesus and his blood being offered the saved went to ABRAHAM's bosom which was separated from hell by a great gulf....

After the resurrection and ascension Jesus led those who were captive in paradise to heaven and now when a saved person dies they go to heaven to be with Jesus and HE WILL BRING THEM WITH HIM WHEN HE COMES

The foolishness about the dead not knowing anything and soul sleep is exactly that...foolishness...as the statements are indicative of the fact that someone who dies is OBLIVIOUS to what is TAKING PLACE on this EARTH and does not equal soul sleep period!

 

[SeaBass]

If you thought that the word baptized meant physical water baptism here, then, of course, the scripture seems to say that a person must believe and be dunked in physical water to be saved. However, baptism is a word that means 'wash'. When we believe on Jesus, we are believing on him to wash our sins away. That is something that physical water could never do. Dunking in physical water would not have any affect on our salvation. The scripture is saying, instead, Whoever believes and has their sins forgiven (washed) will be saved. Obviously you can be saved when your sins are forgiven. You cannot when they are not. Will a person be saved if they have never dunked in a physical water ritual baptism. Yes, if they have believed on Jesus and have had their sins forgiven. Consider that the Bible uses the word 'clean' to describe a saved person. In the New Testament, a man told Jesus: Lord, if you will, you can make me clean. Jesus immediately responded: I will, be thou clean. In other words, be thou saved. This fellow did not need to dunk in physical water. The Bible refers to washing of water by the word. In other words, water is a parable word for God's word. Jesus said, Now you are clean (saved) through the word that I have spoken to you. That word is a word of forgiveness.

The word baptizo means a literal immersion. Mk 16:15,16 along with Mt 28:19,20 and Lk 24:47 are verses that tell us about Christ's great commission. Christ commissioned His disciples to go teach and baptize. So disciples/humans are the ones that are to do the baptizing and humans cannot baptize with the Holy Spirit, only God can do that. But disciples/humans can administer water baptism as Phillip did with the eunuch Acts 8 and as Paul did with some of the Corinthians which is the one baptism of Eph 4:5. So Mark 16:16 does not allow salvation for an unbaptized believer. As I showed earlier in this thread from Acts 2:41,44, a saving, biblical belief INCLUDES baptism so the unbiblical "belief only" in not being baptized is rejection of the gospel word/condemnation.


(It's not the physical water that washes away sin, but the blood of Christ that washes away sins, Rev 1:5 in water baptism. Christ shed His blood in His death, (Jn 19:34) and water baptism is what puts one into Christ's death (Rom 6:3-5) whereby one can then contact that cleansing blood)

 

[RedTent]

It seems to me that whenever someone posts a bible verse to uphold a pet theory they have, it distorts rather than helps, yet scripture is truth!! Amazing. The Lord must want us to know Him and all his attributes first, and then read each scripture to see how it fits those basic truths.

It is basic that God is spirit and truth, all scripture must be read with this in mind.

It is basic that God uses our material world to communicate spiritual truths to us, and we must include it while we live in our bodies. It is expressed in scripture as Faith without works is dead.

It is basic that if we act without the spirit of the Lord as reasons for our actions, the actions alone mean nothing. The entire book of Isaiah expresses this.

If we put all these basics together and listen to each, then baptism is of the spirit and our heart, not in the physical declaration of it. We are asked to include a physical baptism to our spiritual one, and if we refuse this direction, have no faith in the Lord's direction to us to do this, then it is also an indication that we do not have faith and truth in the true baptism done with the heart. We have the added assurance that during the time we physically make our declaration and join with others that the Lord is there and adds His special blessing.

 

[notuptome]

Again, there is not a single verse that promises anyone today baptism with the Holy Spirit. This idea is made up by those who do not like that fact God made water baptism the point as to where He saves.

Does your bible have Titus 3:5?

You are cause for great concern. If you have not the Holy Spirit you are not of Christ. Jesus said the He would be in us and we would be in Him. Abiding in Christ is only possible with the presence of the Holy Spirit.

You are confessing that you are not Christian and not promised a place in heaven.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

The sinner is converted and baptized in the Holy Spirit the moment they believe and receive Christ.(your version)

scripture version
Acts 2:38Living Bible (TLB)

[SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter replied, “Each one of you must turn from sin, return to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; then you also shall receive this gift, the Holy Spirit.



Acts 2:38Names of God Bible (NOG)

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Peter answered them, “All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Yeshua Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

Acts 2:38American Standard Version (ASV)

[SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Acts 2:38King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:38New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

You can post every version of Acts 2:38 known to man and it will not change that Acts 2:38 is Holy Spirit baptism. Baptizo is never water baptism.

If you have not the Holy Spirit you are not of Christ. It is the witness of the Holy Spirit with our spirit that evidences our salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[peacefulbeliever]

No verse says anyone today is baptized with the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians addressed to - Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1 Cor. 12:1 Now concerning spiritual [pneumatikos - matters or spiritual things], brethren, I would not have you ignorant. . . . .7) But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. . . . .
[listing of the manifestations] . . . 13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews, or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

John 7:38, 39a He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit which they that believe on him should receive . . .

John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. . . . . 13) Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14) But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

The only way to drink of the water Christ shall give is to be baptized with Holy Spirit . . . living water. He that believeth on me - they that believe on him should receive - are all baptized into one body - sounds like it is for today to me . . . .

 

[posthuman]

Does your bible have Titus 3:5?

You are cause for great concern. If you have not the Holy Spirit you are not of Christ. Jesus said the He would be in us and we would be in Him. Abiding in Christ is only possible with the presence of the Holy Spirit.

You are confessing that you are not Christian and not promised a place in heaven.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

or 1 Corinthians 6:11 --
"But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

we are washed, sanctified and justified by the Spirit of our God !

God Himself saves us, and nothing else - it is the gift of God, and nothing else - that none other may be praised!

 

[newbirth]

You can post every version of Acts 2:38 known to man and it will not change that Acts 2:38 is Holy Spirit baptism. Baptizo is never water baptism.

If you have not the Holy Spirit you are not of Christ. It is the witness of the Holy Spirit with our spirit that evidences our salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

does that mean ...[SUP]38 [/SUP]Peter replied, “Repent and be holy spirit baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

???????????

 

[posthuman]

You can post every version of Acts 2:38 known to man and it will not change that Acts 2:38 is Holy Spirit baptism. Baptizo is never water baptism.

If you have not the Holy Spirit you are not of Christ. It is the witness of the Holy Spirit with our spirit that evidences our salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

i wonder why not post every English version of Acts 10:43 ? this same Simon Peter said:

To him all the prophets bear witness
that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.

 

[dcontroversal]

i wonder why not post every English version of Acts 10:43 ? this same Simon Peter said:

To him all the prophets bear witness
that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.

You could post every verse in context that contradicts a watered down blood that does not save and someone who has trusted into water will never understand it because you have to be genuinely born again in order to understand the word. Baptismal regeneration is heresy and a gospel of a different kind which equals NO salvation and has no power to save as the bible is clear...by grace dia faith.

Especially when dealing with a die hard follower of Campbell......!

 

[newbirth]

i wonder why not post every English version of Acts 10:43 ? this same Simon Peter said:

To him all the prophets bear witness
that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.

your understanding of what...who believes in him...and...through his name... means would depend on what you receive....

 

[posthuman]

does that mean ...[SUP]38 [/SUP]Peter replied, “Repent and be holy spirit baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

???????????

it is evident to me reading through Acts that at the beginning even the apostles did not fully understand the glory of the gospel that Christ had worked. they did not understand that it was to the Gentiles also, and they did not understand that all foods were clean, or that circumcision and other ceremonial aspects of the law were for the heart and not the flesh.
these things they worked out and understood as God by His Spirit revealed them.
reading Peter's account of his vision and experience at the house of Cornelius (Acts 11), we see that his thinking was renewed when he saw that God justified these that heard the word and believed, and only then understood how that Christ baptized with the Spirit. what can we say to this? even Peter was still being perfected, else why would he have been rebuked and corrected 3 times in a vision from God, and then shown by the power of God directly how and by whom men are justified?

the seal of our salvation is in our hearts, not in whether our hair has become damp, and it is God who sees and judges the heart, while men look at the outward things. likewise it is God who justifies and washes us, not we who justify and wash each other. if water baptism remitted sin, we are wasting our time evangelizing when we could be so much more effective by taking water hoses and squirt guns full of blessed water and spraying down entire crowds. but this - as Simon Peter also said - is merely the washing away of dirt from our bodies. the washing that justifies us before God must be done by God or we would have reason to boast.

 

[posthuman]

even under the law of Moses, it was not the literal animal that was sacrificed that remitted sin.

it was God by His mercy who forgave sin when the wicked in repentance and obedience turned to Him.

the prophets speak of how because of the unrepentant hearts and their idolatry, He would not accept their sacrifices, and their burnt offerings were a foul stench to Him (Isaiah 1:11-14). how then could we say that their rituals, even those commanded by God, are what absolved them of sin?

even you that teach this custom we now have is what 'saves' will readily say that unless the ceremony is performed with an obedient and faithful heart, it is of no effect (else we have the water-cannon gospel) -- so how is it you cannot see that it is in the heart that sin is remitted? water does not wash the heart, but the heart is washed by the Spirit of God! of course we should obediently identify ourselves with the believers, but we should not idolize a ceremony that is a shadow of the spiritual reality.