What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED believer?

[newbirth]

it is evident to me reading through Acts that at the beginning even the apostles did not fully understand the glory of the gospel that Christ had worked. they did not understand that it was to the Gentiles also, and they did not understand that all foods were clean, or that circumcision and other ceremonial aspects of the law were for the heart and not the flesh.
these things they worked out and understood as God by His Spirit revealed them.
reading Peter's account of his vision and experience at the house of Cornelius (Acts 11), we see that his thinking was renewed when he saw that God justified these that heard the word and believed, and only then understood how that Christ baptized with the Spirit. what can we say to this? even Peter was still being perfected, else why would he have been rebuked and corrected 3 times in a vision from God, and then shown by the power of God directly how and by whom men are justified?

the seal of our salvation is in our hearts, not in whether our hair has become damp, and it is God who sees and judges the heart, while men look at the outward things. likewise it is God who justifies and washes us, not we who justify and wash each other. if water baptism remitted sin, we are wasting our time evangelizing when we could be so much more effective by taking water hoses and squirt guns full of blessed water and spraying down entire crowds. but this - as Simon Peter also said - is merely the washing away of dirt from our bodies. the washing that justifies us before God must be done by God or we would have reason to boast.

you quote falsely.....' as Simon Peter also said - is merely the washing away of dirt from our bodies.'
[h=1]1 Peter 3:21New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]21 [/SUP]and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[SUP][a][/SUP] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
[h=1]1 Peter 3:21Names of God Bible (NOG)[/h] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Baptism, which is like that water, now saves you. Baptism doesn’t save by removing dirt from the body. Rather, baptism is a request to God for a clear conscience. It saves you through Yeshua Christ, who came back from death to

[h=1]1 Peter 3:21American Standard Version (ASV)[/h] [SUP]21 [/SUP]which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

[h=1]1 Peter 3:21Living Bible (TLB)[/h] [SUP]21 [/SUP](That, by the way, is what baptism pictures for us: In baptism we show that we have been saved from death and doom by the resurrection of Christ;[SUP][a][/SUP] not because our bodies are washed clean by the water but because in being baptized we are turning to God and asking him to cleanse our hearts from sin.)

[h=1]1 Peter 3:21GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)[/h] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Baptism, which is like that water, now saves you. Baptism doesn’t save by removing dirt from the body. Rather, baptism is a request to God for a clear conscience. It saves you through Jesus Christ, who came back from death to life.

 

[posthuman]

you quote falsely.....' as Simon Peter also said - is merely the washing away of dirt from our bodies.'
1 Peter 3:21New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[SUP][a][/SUP] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
1 Peter 3:21Names of God Bible (NOG)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Baptism, which is like that water, now saves you. Baptism doesn’t save by removing dirt from the body. Rather, baptism is a request to God for a clear conscience. It saves you through Yeshua Christ, who came back from death to

1 Peter 3:21American Standard Version (ASV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 3:21Living Bible (TLB)

[SUP]21 [/SUP](That, by the way, is what baptism pictures for us: In baptism we show that we have been saved from death and doom by the resurrection of Christ;[SUP][a][/SUP] not because our bodies are washed clean by the water but because in being baptized we are turning to God and asking him to cleanse our hearts from sin.)

1 Peter 3:21GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Baptism, which is like that water, now saves you. Baptism doesn’t save by removing dirt from the body. Rather, baptism is a request to God for a clear conscience. It saves you through Jesus Christ, who came back from death to life.

what is false about "not the removal of dirt from our bodies" ?

would you turn away the wisdom of God for a meaningless dispute over words?

Peter said that the washing our bodies does not save us. the 'pledge of a good conscious toward God' saves us. that is faith, not works. we are saved through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, not through shampoo.

 

[newbirth]

even under the law of Moses, it was not the literal animal that was sacrificed that remitted sin.

it was God by His mercy who forgave sin when the wicked in repentance and obedience turned to Him.

the prophets speak of how because of the unrepentant hearts and their idolatry, He would not accept their sacrifices, and their burnt offerings were a foul stench to Him (Isaiah 1:11-14). how then could we say that their rituals, even those commanded by God, are what absolved them of sin?

even you that teach this custom we now have is what 'saves' will readily say that unless the ceremony is performed with an obedient and faithful heart, it is of no effect (else we have the water-cannon gospel) -- so how is it you cannot see that it is in the heart that sin is remitted? water does not wash the heart, but the heart is washed by the Spirit of God! of course we should obediently identify ourselves with the believers, but we should not idolize a ceremony that is a shadow of the spiritual reality.

so one should disobey the commands of God because they have a better plan of salvation? Naaman thought the same thing when he was told to go dip in the river Jordan seven times....

 

[Flamingspirit]

Simple the old man obeyed the dictates of the flesh the new man must obey the dictates of the spirit....our actions are birth in our minds, we must feed our minds with the things of God so our actions will be after the things of God....

What are the dictates of the flesh and spirit?

 

[newbirth]

what is false about "not the removal of dirt from our bodies" ?

would you turn away the wisdom of God for a meaningless dispute over words?

Peter said that the washing our bodies does not save us. the 'pledge of a good conscious toward God' saves us. that is faith, not works. we are saved through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, not through shampoo.

baptism is not the removal of dirt from our bodies.....but you say that is what it is.....read it again he says baptism saves us...baptism is the pledge of a clear conscience and it through that clear conscience (free from sin) we are saved by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

 

[newbirth]

What are the dictates of the flesh and spirit?

[h=1]Galatians 5:15-24King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]15 [/SUP]But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

does that mean ...[SUP]38 [/SUP]Peter replied, “Repent and be holy spirit baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

???????????

Nope - doesn't say that specifically but neither does it say "Repent and be baptized in water".

You put all scripture together and if John truly baptized in water BUT one was coming later which would baptize with holy Spirit - and we are to drink of living water - and baptized by one Spirit into one body and there is ONE baptism - then putting everything together - you would realize that the ONE baptism is NOW being baptized with holy Spirit.

All it takes is a little bit of reading comprehension.

 

[posthuman]

so one should disobey the commands of God because they have a better plan of salvation? Naaman thought the same thing when he was told to go dip in the river Jordan seven times....

now you're misquoting. did i not say:

of course we should obediently identify ourselves with the believers

?

 

[posthuman]

baptism is not the removal of dirt from our bodies.....but you say that is what it is.....read it again he says baptism saves us...baptism is the pledge of a clear conscience and it through that clear conscience (free from sin) we are saved by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

of course it isn't. true baptism saves us by the resurrection of Christ.
immersion in water washes dirt from your body.
immersion in Christ washes sin from your soul.

why would the apostle say "not the removal of dirt from our bodies" if taking a literal bath saved you from sin?

 

[KenAllan]

Does it matter if a person is Baptized? Yes the Bible does tell us to Baptize people and to be Baptized. The real question is: "Is Baptism required for Salvation?"

All that is required for Salvation is Faith! Faith that Jesus Christ is God. If Baptism was required for Salvation then we would be "Working" for our Salvation.

The Thief on the Cross is a good example that Baptism is not required for Salvation. But, given the opportunity to be Baptized we need to receive Baptism to show others we are Christians walking with God.

As for me i did not receive Baptism till years after i was Saved. I believe its up to what the Holy Spirit puts in the Heart of a person who has received Salvation if they want to be Baptized or not.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

If a man believes in the Lord Jesus, trusts the Lord Jesus as His Savior, but he does not get water baptized, what happens to him? Does he go to hell? Bible proof?

David had the Holy Spirit and believed and trusted in Jesus as his Lord and Savior and so did Paul. Both will go to heaven, but neither was baptized by water.

 

[newbirth]

Nope - doesn't say that specifically but neither does it say "Repent and be baptized in water".

You put all scripture together and if John truly baptized in water BUT one was coming later which would baptize with holy Spirit - and we are to drink of living water - and baptized by one Spirit into one body and there is ONE baptism - then putting everything together - you would realize that the ONE baptism is NOW being baptized with holy Spirit.

All it takes is a little bit of reading comprehension.

Romans 6:2-4King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


How are we buried with him by spirit baptism into death?the spirit brings life....water baptism is the death of the old man and the birth of a new creature with the promise of the HS


since it does say repent and be baptised..you conclude the scripture is saying spirit baptise....imagine Peter telling you to repent and be spirit baptised
this is the promise that came down to us...maybe you can do this without water
Acts 2:38-39American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.

 

[newbirth]

David had the Holy Spirit and believed and trusted in Jesus as his Lord and Savior and so did Paul. Both will go to heaven, but neither was baptized by water.

Repentance and baptism began with the preaching of John...David was long dead
Why do you say Paul was not water baptised?...did he disobey Ananias

[h=1]Acts 22:10-16King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]10 [/SUP]And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

 

[posthuman]

David had the Holy Spirit and believed and trusted in Jesus as his Lord and Savior and so did Paul. Both will go to heaven, but neither was baptized by water.

it shouldn't be long before someone points out Acts 9:17-19

Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said,
“Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

this says Paul was baptized, but it does not say he was baptized with water.
here's a good article about how & why this can be understood to mean that Paul was baptized by the Spirit in this verse, not by water:
biblestudying.net

some common sense could lead us to this understanding too. there is no distinction in the word "baptizo" between water & spirit. if we read "water baptism" into this passage, we need to recognize that Paul was in a house, not at a river, when Ananias came to him, so unless that house was furnished with a mikveh, if he was water-baptized then they would have had to travel from the house to some place where there was a pool. but the text says he then regained his strength, after eating, after it says he was baptized.

it's possible that there was a baptismal in the house. it's also possible that they did indeed go to a place with water before Paul then ate and 'regained his strength' - the text does say that 'he got up' after his blindness was removed. i could believe Paul was baptized in water, or that this text refers to Paul receiving the Spirit. it's arguable either way, and because there is not a separate word for 'baptism by water' and 'baptism by spirit' the scripture doesn't clearly indicate either one.

if we look at how Paul understood this though, he clearly does not pin the hope of salvation on water baptism. He says "If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9) and specifically says he was not called to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). it should by this be clear that Paul did not consider baptism by water to be the gospel.
if Simon Peter and Paul preached the same gospel - and they certainly did (2 Peter 3:15-16), in fact Paul rebukes Peter over the gospel, not the other way around (Galatians 2:14) - then Paul's statement that confession with the mouth and belief with the heart are what is necessary for salvation, and Peter's that belief, repentance and baptism are how we are saved must be equivalent. if you can bear the word, this is completely harmonious when we understand that it is the baptism of Christ, which is by Spirit, which sanctifies and justifies us, not the public, ceremonial act that has been the custom of the church since its inception. Jesus said that if we confess Him before men, He will confess us before the Father - and the custom of water baptism is exactly a confession before men of the true baptism by Spirit that is our earnest of salvation.

 

[newbirth]

Does it matter if a person is Baptized? Yes the Bible does tell us to Baptize people and to be Baptized. The real question is: "Is Baptism required for Salvation?"

All that is required for Salvation is Faith! Faith that Jesus Christ is God. If Baptism was required for Salvation then we would be "Working" for our Salvation.

The Thief on the Cross is a good example that Baptism is not required for Salvation. But, given the opportunity to be Baptized we need to receive Baptism to show others we are Christians walking with God.

As for me i did not receive Baptism till years after i was Saved. I believe its up to what the Holy Spirit puts in the Heart of a person who has received Salvation if they want to be Baptized or not.

No longer do men believe in obeying our Lord ...they do whatever they think is required...no more obedience to the word...The HS told us what to do through Peter in Acts 2 :38-39 why does he have to come to tell anyone again...He also said faith comes by hearing

 

[newbirth]

of course it isn't. true baptism saves us by the resurrection of Christ.
immersion in water washes dirt from your body.
immersion in Christ washes sin from your soul.

why would the apostle say "not the removal of dirt from our bodies" if taking a literal bath saved you from sin?

he says baptism is not the removal of dirt from the body...because people like you think it is...it is the pledge of a clear conscience...and you cannot understand that....the other part says baptism now saves you....and you don't believe that either

1 Peter 3:21GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Baptism, which is like that water, now saves you. Baptism doesn’t save by removing dirt from the body. Rather, baptism is a request to God for a clear conscience. It saves you through Jesus Christ, who came back from death to life.



but still you will not believe....

 

[posthuman]

Repentance and baptism began with the preaching of John...

water baptism began long before David. it was part of the Levitical law. priests would wash themselves perhaps many times in a single day as part of temple worship, and washing with water was part of becoming ceremonially clean.

for example:

Anyone who touches his bed must wash their clothes and bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening.
(Leviticus 15:5)

it's from the laws for ceremonial washing that the practice of water baptism in 1st century AD came about.
the important thing to recognize is that washing by water in the law of Moses was ceremonial - the Jews to my knowledge never believed that water itself made them clean, but that it was done in good conscious and obedience with the faith that God would remove their actual uncleanness. just as Peter says: not the putting away of dirt from the body, but the answer of a clear conscious towards God.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Repentance and baptism began with the preaching of John...David was long dead
Why do you say Paul was not water baptised?...did he disobey Ananias

Acts 22:10-16King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Let's look at this in the whole context of what happened recorded in Acts 22-23,...Paul is a Jew who is in the process of hunting down Christians before being blinded by Jesus. Ananias is a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there. Paul still is a Jew at this time under the law in the process of Christian conversion which Ananias wants no part of. Ananias is the head priest who washes him based on the experience he had on his way to Damascus. This was witnessed by the men (Jews) with him who saw him blinded so Ananias had to accept it. Ananias is not baptizing Paul as a Christian he is baptizing him according to the law see Exodus 29:4And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water. If you move ahead to Acts 22:30-23:1-5 you will find that this same Ananias is the head priest who commands Paul to be smote on the mouth. This baptism with water did nothing for Paul. It was a requirement for priests under the old law.
Acts 22:30 On the morrow, because he would have known the certainty wherefore he was accused of the Jews, he loosed him from his bands, and commanded the chief priests and all their council to appear, and brought Paul down, and set him before them.
Acts 23:1And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day. 2And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth. 3Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law? 4And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest? 5Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.

 

[Kerry]

Hmm, was thief on the cross baptized? Some say well we followed John the baptist, then that wrecks the OSAS, because why would he be a thief? Convicted and damned, while the other thief did not believe. So what happens to an unbaptized believer, the same for a baptized believer.

 

[newbirth]

water baptism began long before David. it was part of the Levitical law. priests would wash themselves perhaps many times in a single day as part of temple worship, and washing with water was part of becoming ceremonially clean.

for example:

Anyone who touches his bed must wash their clothes and bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening.
(Leviticus 15:5)

it's from the laws for ceremonial washing that the practice of water baptism in 1st century AD came about.
the important thing to recognize is that washing by water in the law of Moses was ceremonial - the Jews to my knowledge never believed that water itself made them clean, but that it was done in good conscious and obedience with the faith that God would remove their actual uncleanness. just as Peter says: not the putting away of dirt from the body, but the answer of a clear conscious towards God.

see you did not read what I wrote....