What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED believer?
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So whachewgonna dew when you tell persons about your Chance-Giver?
Had you not best carry with you at all times 2 army spades, cause if they should B Leave, why you don wantem goin to Haiyell.
So, once they believerize, you can toss one spade to the new believer (specially if he be a devil), and you boys can start shoveling frantically to dig a baptizing pit. Once you get it dug, you can go pinch a local garden hose & fill it for the dunking, cause you really got a Hail Far emergency on your hands.
As an alternative, you can carry some asbestos clothes in your satchel to lend to the new believer on Monday before the scheduled dunking on Saturday -- asbestos clothes in case some mishap happens before Saturday.
Then what will the poor guy in the Sahara desert do? A Gospel Blimp dropped a track in his path in the sand. He wanted to believe & be saved; so was he out of luck cause they warn't no water nowhere? Now the Muslims would probably let him use sand for water, but this ain't no Islamic exercise.
Had you not best carry with you at all times 2 army spades, cause if they should B Leave, why you don wantem goin to Haiyell.
So, once they believerize, you can toss one spade to the new believer (specially if he be a devil), and you boys can start shoveling frantically to dig a baptizing pit. Once you get it dug, you can go pinch a local garden hose & fill it for the dunking, cause you really got a Hail Far emergency on your hands.
As an alternative, you can carry some asbestos clothes in your satchel to lend to the new believer on Monday before the scheduled dunking on Saturday -- asbestos clothes in case some mishap happens before Saturday.
Then what will the poor guy in the Sahara desert do? A Gospel Blimp dropped a track in his path in the sand. He wanted to believe & be saved; so was he out of luck cause they warn't no water nowhere? Now the Muslims would probably let him use sand for water, but this ain't no Islamic exercise.
If you thought that the word baptized meant physical water baptism here, then, of course, the scripture seems to say that a person must believe and be dunked in physical water to be saved. However, baptism is a word that means 'wash'. When we believe on Jesus, we are believing on him to wash our sins away. That is something that physical water could never do. Dunking in physical water would not have any affect on our salvation. The scripture is saying, instead, Whoever believes and has their sins forgiven (washed) will be saved. Obviously you can be saved when your sins are forgiven. You cannot when they are not. Will a person be saved if they have never dunked in a physical water ritual baptism. Yes, if they have believed on Jesus and have had their sins forgiven. Consider that the Bible uses the word 'clean' to describe a saved person. In the New Testament, a man told Jesus: Lord, if you will, you can make me clean. Jesus immediately responded: I will, be thou clean. In other words, be thou saved. This fellow did not need to dunk in physical water. The Bible refers to washing of water by the word. In other words, water is a parable word for God's word. Jesus said, Now you are clean (saved) through the word that I have spoken to you. That word is a word of forgiveness.
not one scripture to support your opinion and a big IF ...how could you imagine that (if) could have ever happen?
this is what scripture says baptism is...choose your translation...
[h=1]1 Peter 3:20-22Names of God Bible (NOG)[/h] [SUP]20 [/SUP]They are like those who disobeyed long ago in the days of Noah when God waited patiently while Noah built the ship. In this ship a few people—eight in all—were saved by water. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Baptism, which is like that water, now saves you. Baptism doesn’t save by removing dirt from the body. Rather, baptism is a request to God for a clear conscience. It saves you through Yeshua Christ, who came back from death to life. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Christ has gone to heaven where he has the highest position that God gives. Angels, rulers, and powers have been placed under his authority.
[h=1]1 Peter 3:20-22American Standard Version (ASV)[/h] [SUP]20 [/SUP]that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]who is one the right hand of God, having gone into heaven; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
[h=1]1 Peter 3:20-22Living Bible (TLB)[/h] [SUP]20 [/SUP]spirits of those who, long before in the days of Noah, had refused to listen to God, though he waited patiently for them while Noah was building the ark. Yet only eight persons were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. [SUP]21 [/SUP](That, by the way, is what baptism pictures for us: In baptism we show that we have been saved from death and doom by the resurrection of Christ;[SUP][a][/SUP] not because our bodies are washed clean by the water but because in being baptized we are turning to God and asking him to cleanse our hearts from sin.) [SUP]22 [/SUP]And now Christ is in heaven, sitting in the place of honor next to God the Father, with all the angels and powers of heaven bowing before him and obeying him.
[h=1]1 Peter 3:20-22New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]20 [/SUP]to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, [SUP]21 [/SUP]and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[SUP][a][/SUP] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, [SUP]22 [/SUP]who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
[h=1]1 Peter 3:20-22King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]20 [/SUP]Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
this is what scripture says baptism is...choose your translation...
[h=1]1 Peter 3:20-22Names of God Bible (NOG)[/h] [SUP]20 [/SUP]They are like those who disobeyed long ago in the days of Noah when God waited patiently while Noah built the ship. In this ship a few people—eight in all—were saved by water. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Baptism, which is like that water, now saves you. Baptism doesn’t save by removing dirt from the body. Rather, baptism is a request to God for a clear conscience. It saves you through Yeshua Christ, who came back from death to life. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Christ has gone to heaven where he has the highest position that God gives. Angels, rulers, and powers have been placed under his authority.
[h=1]1 Peter 3:20-22American Standard Version (ASV)[/h] [SUP]20 [/SUP]that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]who is one the right hand of God, having gone into heaven; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
[h=1]1 Peter 3:20-22Living Bible (TLB)[/h] [SUP]20 [/SUP]spirits of those who, long before in the days of Noah, had refused to listen to God, though he waited patiently for them while Noah was building the ark. Yet only eight persons were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. [SUP]21 [/SUP](That, by the way, is what baptism pictures for us: In baptism we show that we have been saved from death and doom by the resurrection of Christ;[SUP][a][/SUP] not because our bodies are washed clean by the water but because in being baptized we are turning to God and asking him to cleanse our hearts from sin.) [SUP]22 [/SUP]And now Christ is in heaven, sitting in the place of honor next to God the Father, with all the angels and powers of heaven bowing before him and obeying him.
[h=1]1 Peter 3:20-22New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]20 [/SUP]to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, [SUP]21 [/SUP]and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[SUP][a][/SUP] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, [SUP]22 [/SUP]who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
[h=1]1 Peter 3:20-22King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]20 [/SUP]Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Do you think that a person who gives themselves to the Lord, who believes all the Lord says in scripture but also says "I refuse to make a public declaration of this" is truly saved?
The Lord looks at our heart, but while we live in our body there is a connection between our heart and what our body does. We can tell the Lord that we are so pure and holy we live in spirit only, there is no connection between our spirit and what we do, but the Lord knows better.
The Lord looks at our heart, but while we live in our body there is a connection between our heart and what our body does. We can tell the Lord that we are so pure and holy we live in spirit only, there is no connection between our spirit and what we do, but the Lord knows better.
Have you not known that as many who was baptized in Christ have been baptized unto His DEATH? Judge not by appearances. In other words the various baptisms done by various denominations and churches mean absolutely nothing. There is but ONE authenticated baptism and all men will go through it.
Therefore in death or the crucifying of ones flesh, we are transformed by the renewal of the mind! This is true baptism.
Therefore in death or the crucifying of ones flesh, we are transformed by the renewal of the mind! This is true baptism.
see how doctrine of man makes the word of God of no effect...(In other words the various baptisms done by various denominations and churches mean absolutely nothing.)
Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
That does NOT define baptism. Now tell me what church or doctrine of man has the meaning of baptism as I have given it? Just name one........ That being said, I'm SURE you can name a church or man made doctrine that defines it as being dipped or sprinkled with water from some pool or faucet.
There is but ONE God, Lord, Spirit, baptism.
There is but ONE God, Lord, Spirit, baptism.
you seek to define the word rather than obey...the meaning you gave is your opinion....I seek to establish no man made doctrine...This is not a teaching of God...(In other words the various baptisms done by various denominations and churches mean absolutely nothing.) because some teach a wrong way ..that does not give you the authority to say... to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ means nothing....
You are arguing with God not me. You keep arguing with God that grace is not sufficient, that the blood of Christ is not sufficient, that the faith that comes from Gods word is not sufficient, no, you force the addition of water to complete what God was not able to accomplish. Christ left that undone on the cross according to your theology at least.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
How can anyone obey without knowing what it is they are to obey? I do not follow blind obedience. No opinions only scriptural facts along with what it means. Everything I say is backed with scripture.
Now can you please find what post I said "to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ means nothing"? Now can you tell me what it MEANS to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ? Defining words with the same words was something I was taught not to do at an early age.
Now can you please find what post I said "to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ means nothing"? Now can you tell me what it MEANS to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ? Defining words with the same words was something I was taught not to do at an early age.
No criticism. They may do as they please. I only criticize when one takes that tradition to condemn others for not doing the same. There are good people who will never get "baptized" according to the tradition of the church. Likewise there are many sinful people that do.
This type of thinking is what I debate. You yourself have mentioned the essence of the matter, that God is not concerned with appearances or how things look, but the heart or content of the character.
This type of thinking is what I debate. You yourself have mentioned the essence of the matter, that God is not concerned with appearances or how things look, but the heart or content of the character.
(In other words the various baptisms done by various denominations and churches mean absolutely nothing.)
you judge for yourself what it means
Acts 19:1-6King James Version (KJV)
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
have you received the HS since you believed? he did not respond by saying they did not truly believe...he responded by asking Unto what then were ye baptized?
the scripture does not say they were spirit baptised ...it says they were baptised in the name of Jesus..... and when Paul laid his hands the Holy Ghost came upon them....
you judge for yourself what it means
Acts 19:1-6King James Version (KJV)
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
have you received the HS since you believed? he did not respond by saying they did not truly believe...he responded by asking Unto what then were ye baptized?
the scripture does not say they were spirit baptised ...it says they were baptised in the name of Jesus..... and when Paul laid his hands the Holy Ghost came upon them....