What happens when Believers don't obey the Gospel

[SeaBass]

Accepting the gospel is signified, but not procured in baptism. Believers repent and believe the gospel prior to getting water baptized. They were baptized BECAUSE they received his word, not in order to receive his word.

The implication is one is REJECTING the gospel as long as he is rejecting baptism.

Rom 1:16 the gospel is the power of God unto salvation, so how can one who is rejecting the gospel be saved? He cannot.

 

[notuptome]

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
[16] He that believeth and is baptized[SUP]G907[/SUP] shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The word here is baptized[SUP]G907 [/SUP]and according to Strong’s Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries ...

G907
baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet)



And, Thayer’s Greek Definitions...

G907
baptizō

1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge



You are welcome to "believe not" the Gospel, but if someday you come to believe, you must believe all of it...

1. Death = repent
2. Burial = water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
3. Resurrection = Holy Spirit


Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


God bless!

I appreciate your effort but you have not included the full Greek usage of the word Baptizo. The submerge reference is likened unto a ship sinking. It goes under the water true enough but it does not resurface. This better describes Holy Spirit baptism than water baptism. Bapto better describes water baptism. Much like when you wash pickles in water before you Baptizo them in the brine solution.

The Mark 16 scripture does not make water baptism a necessary part of salvation but clarifies that believing is the key ingredient to receiving Gods completely sufficient grace to be saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

Yes, I got baptized in water about a year after I was saved. It was a joyous event, not one out of fear or duty. About a year after that, I was standing in my house praying to Jesus and was baptized in the Holy Ghost when I was blinded with a light like the sun and enveloped in roaring, rushing wind. That MADE me fear but in a wonderful way! It was trembling amazement and awe of the Great I AM! \/

When the ORDER of verses as Mk 16:16 that puts baptism BEFORE saved and Acts 2:38 puts baptism BEFORE remission of sins, then how can one be saved BEFORE he is baptized?

 

[SeaBass]

Those that reject the gospel need not be water baptized since they have not first received the spiritual baptism Jesus and promised in Mark 10:39 and other places, and by the apostles. But many people of the first century had only John's baptism, having only been water baptized unto repentance unto remission of sins. That wasn't sufficient to save, and still isn't. What John preached and offered towards that could not be equal to what Jesus later did on the cross.It took the blood of Jesus to wash us, not river water.It is the spiritual first, then the natural. The spiritual is inner, the natural outer. We learned from the law the outward things can't save or add to salvation.

Acts 18:24-27 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Water baptism is an outward sign of the spirit baptism Jesus gives upon believing the gospel. Without that first, there is no testimony of one's death, burial and resurrection in Christ.

1) One that rejects the gospel is lost.

2) Rejecting baptism is rejecting the gospel.

3) therefore by rejecting baptism one is lost.


The is one baptism Eph 4:5 in this present Christian dispensation and that one baptism is CHrist's baptism of the great commission, Mt 28>19,20; Mk 16:15,16.

The baptism of Christ's great commission:
-was administered by disciples-humans and humans can administer water baptism
-was commanded therefore must be obeyed
-was how disciples were made
-will last till the end of the world
-this baptism was to be perpetually taught to all future disciples as commanded
-this baptism saves

Baptism with the Holy Spirit:
-can only be administered by God
-was never commanded therefore cannot be obeyed but it only a promise to the apostles
-does not make one a disciple
-does not last till the end of the world
-it not to be perpetually taught as Christ commanded
-does not save

So baptism with the Holy Spirit cannot be the one baptism (Eph 4:5) of this present Christian dispensation. Acts 8, the eunuch was not baptized with the Holy Spirit but water baptized which is the one baptism of Eph 4:5



John's baptism was sufficient to save for it was for remission of sins > salvation. It was replaced by Christ's baptism of the great commission at Pentecost, Acts 2.

 

[SeaBass]

The submerge reference is likened unto a ship sinking. It goes under the water true enough but it does not resurface.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

Rom 6:4 "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from (resurface) the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

Col 2:12 "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen (resurface) with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

One is buried into a watery grave and then raised up FROM, risen FROM that watery grace. If the above verses refer to some kind of "spirit baptism" then one is buried in that spirit but then raised up FROM that spirit not maintaining that spirit.

 

[notuptome]

Rom 6:4 "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from (resurface) the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

Col 2:12 "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen (resurface) with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

One is buried into a watery grave and then raised up FROM, risen FROM that watery grace. If the above verses refer to some kind of "spirit baptism" then one is buried in that spirit but then raised up FROM that spirit not maintaining that spirit.

I realize that this is foolishness to those who are lost. At the moment a soul asks Christ to save them and forgive their sins they are baptized in the Holy Spirit. It is a t this instant that the sinner who was dead to God is now quickened and given new life in Christ, Spiritual life as opposed to the old life of the flesh.

When you decide to stop telling God what He must do and listen to what He has done you will begin to make progress from the darkness of sin into the light of the Savior.

Water is great to slake the thirst and to wash the body but it cannot impute eternal life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[endtimes]

I realize that this is foolishness to those who are lost. At the moment a soul asks Christ to save them and forgive their sins they are baptized in the Holy Spirit. It is a t this instant that the sinner who was dead to God is now quickened and given new life in Christ, Spiritual life as opposed to the old life of the flesh.

When you decide to stop telling God what He must do and listen to what He has done you will begin to make progress from the darkness of sin into the light of the Savior.

Water is great to slake the thirst and to wash the body but it cannot impute eternal life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Jesus told Nicodemus that we must be born again to be saved. He then said it is of water and spirit.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Peter knew this as he gave the gospel message for salvation in Acts...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


1. Death = repent
2. Burial = water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
3. Resurrection = Holy Spirit

Notice the above, we have both water and spirit (burial and resurrection).



Lets look at other scriptures regarding water baptism with G907...


Matthew 3:6 And were baptized[SUP][SUB]G907[/SUB][/SUP] of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized[SUP]G907[/SUP] of him.

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized[SUP]G907[/SUP], went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:



God bless!

 

[SeaBass]

I realize that this is foolishness to those who are lost. At the moment a soul asks Christ to save them and forgive their sins they are baptized in the Holy Spirit. It is a t this instant that the sinner who was dead to God is now quickened and given new life in Christ, Spiritual life as opposed to the old life of the flesh.

When you decide to stop telling God what He must do and listen to what He has done you will begin to make progress from the darkness of sin into the light of the Savior.

Water is great to slake the thirst and to wash the body but it cannot impute eternal life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Where have I told God what He must do? Seems some here are telling God he must baptize them with the Holy Spirit.

Salvation does not come by a prayer asking Christ to save but comes by obeying Christ, Heb 5:9.

Water does not save, water cannot remit sins....it's the ACT OF OBEDIENCE in submitting to water baptism as God commanded that GOD removes the body of sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are 'nearsighted' due to the lack of 'supplement to your faith', according to the epistle of Apostle Peter, and have not even fully welcome the Gospel in knowledge and ignorantly are anti-CHRIST, and ignorantly a proud 'self-righteous' Christian, continuing and taking for granted the period of GOD's Grace to everyone, putting HIM to the test, and once again due to Spiritual blindness that dare opposes what has been already written for 'children' of the Kingdom to understand and also already been established before as the New Covenant 'Christian foundation laid on the Rock', Christianity who have practiced actually the 'talk the talk' and 'walk the walk' Covenant faith given to all of them, beginning from LORD JESUS CHRIST, the Apostles and their followers.

And GOD has testified about them, in HIS own words written in the HOLY BIBLE, in order for us in the future to imitate them and 'abide' in HIS SON's 'words and love' for one another, which also in agreement we have already accepted and living in all of them everyday, our believe and in acknowledgement 'faith with action', 'the works of GOD' under the 'Law of Liberty of the New Covenant'.

That is the actual Grace and Truth has been once again quoted 'as a reminder' and 'a stir up of memory' to you and others and me who are witnessing once again, quoted well and sound, by HIS humble unworthy least important servant for CHRIST, in order for the ignorant 'harden hearts' to repent.

We have actually heard GOD's voice, the written Word of the New Covenant and not HIS servant's.

As it is written in the epistle to the Hebrews and all in the same faith family that;

"If you hear GOD's voice today, do not harden your hearts."

And this is 'A Commandment' to all believers, was 'of' GOD and 'by' JESUS through HIS body and 'part/member'.

Without the HOLY BIBLE reference documentation produced by the HOLY SPIRIT and even taught by HIM, no one can learn and know about Christianity and even act and live like a Christian.

The HOLY SPIRIT is on our side and HE is grieving about you today's 'blind guides', who are clever to take part of the quotes and by understanding parts of Apostle Paul who address to the Romans and Galatians church and justify partial knowledge truth, witnessing to others.

Actually, 'the work of men that takes away from the work of GOD' that you and you supporters ignorantly and boldly brag about, according to Apostle Paul, about 'the work of men', is men lived according to their past life and works, to the Jews, the works of required Law of Moses and to the Gentiles, the works of the law naturally in their conscience and also teaching of their wise ancestors or so called spiritual holy men.

And that which 'takes away the work of GOD' is the work of GOD, according to the written and established HOLY SPIRIT's 'Law of liberty'(Romans 8;2), made New Covenant, for all who have been born again, who must have, by receiving GOD's gift of initial faith, supposedly 'bury' their past of 'work of men', Jews or Gentiles, and now as one redeemed family 'abide' to that written and established New Covenant 'work of GOD'.

And is written;

"This is the blood of the Covenant poured out for you, which My FATHER makes with you. Drink it and do this in remembrance of me."

ok dude,,

You call me self righteous, Yet you are trying to get to heaven by your self righteousness. Because your to proud.

There is no pride in me, I humbled myself to th epoint of the cross. Because in humility, I realised there was nothing I could do to be saved, This is why Christ came. So I could be raised to new life, And be given the ABILITY to do those works that God wants me to do, not in self righteousness (to help myself) but to glorify him, and out of aprreciation for what he did for me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Of course. If someone in my presence claimed to be a Christian, but refused to be baptized using mindless arguments against it such as I see on this thread, that person would be thrown far out of the house as anathema, until they repented of their rebelliousness. The Spirit of Christ never dwells within such rebellious people.

it is one thing to obey God and be baptised because he empowered you with the spirit. In fact, no one who truly had faiht in Christ and recieved his HS would NOT want to be baptised.

it is a far othe thingr, as these water happy people want to impress on you, to do it to get saved.

 

[notuptome]

Where have I told God what He must do? Seems some here are telling God he must baptize them with the Holy Spirit.

Salvation does not come by a prayer asking Christ to save but comes by obeying Christ, Heb 5:9.

Water does not save, water cannot remit sins....it's the ACT OF OBEDIENCE in submitting to water baptism as God commanded that GOD removes the body of sin.

Ephesians 2:1&5 God quickens by His Holy Spirit. Dead in trespass and sin now made alive by the Holy Spirit acting by the grace of God.

Gods grace has made me more than I ever could make of myself.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kennethcadwell]

it is one thing to obey God and be baptised because he empowered you with the spirit. In fact, no one who truly had faiht in Christ and recieved his HS would NOT want to be baptised.

it is a far othe thingr, as these water happy people want to impress on you, to do it to get saved.

The thing is that our Lord Jesus and the bible says you can not serve both Him and sin.
Then He says those who are His will obey and follow His commands, those that are not His will not obey or follow His commands. To be saved one has to be His sheep, or otherwise known as a disciple.

He commanded baptism in Matthew 28 and Mark 16, so you can deduce by this that if you are His which means in a saved state then you would get baptized because He commanded it.

 

[notuptome]

The thing is that our Lord Jesus and the bible says you can not serve both Him and sin.
Then He says those who are His will obey and follow His commands, those that are not His will not obey or follow His commands. To be saved one has to be His sheep, or otherwise known as a disciple.

He commanded baptism in Matthew 28 and Mark 16, so you can deduce by this that if you are His which means in a saved state then you would get baptized because He commanded it.

Neither Matthew 28 nor Mark 16 can be interpreted as water baptism. It is gross error to make either of those baptisms to be water. The baptism that saves is always Holy Spirit baptism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The thing is that our Lord Jesus and the bible says you can not serve both Him and sin.
Then He says those who are His will obey and follow His commands, those that are not His will not obey or follow His commands. To be saved one has to be His sheep, or otherwise known as a disciple.

Again, The bible says whoever is born of him will do those things. Why do you think people who have true faith, and have been given the HS would never do anything for him, do you think that is even possible? it is not.

He commanded baptism in Matthew 28 and Mark 16, so you can deduce by this that if you are His which means in a saved state then you would get baptized because He commanded it.

Yes you would, IN A SAVED STATE, but that is not what is being said in here, What is being said is you must do it to BE SAVED.

God commanded many things, In a saved state you would want to do those things,

As the bible says, the ones who are saved obey his commands, It does not say they obey to be saved, that would make salvation be of works, not of grace.

 

[newbirth]

dont we have enough of these satanic water baptismal regeneration threads?

we are saved the same way abraham, Noah, Adam and eve, King David, The prophet daniel, and paul were saved.

By faith in God, adding a work of men takes away from the work of God.

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Hebrews 11
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

without faith it is impossible to please him
by faith Noah prepared an ark...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Hebrews 11
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
[SUP]7[/SUP]By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

without faith it is impossible to please him
by faith Noah prepared an ark...

yeah we know. You want to earn your righteousness. And make yourself worthy.

good luck with that!

 

[newbirth]

Neither Matthew 28 nor Mark 16 can be interpreted as water baptism. It is gross error to make either of those baptisms to be water. The baptism that saves is always Holy Spirit baptism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

so how do you Spirit baptise....since you say it is not water baptism...and it is something we must do ...how do we go around baptising people with the HS....???
[SUP]
19 [/SUP]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

and if what you say is so ...why did Peter say...
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

[newbirth]

yeah we know. You want to earn your righteousness. And make yourself worthy.

good luck with that!

are you denying the scripture???

 

[kennethcadwell]

Neither Matthew 28 nor Mark 16 can be interpreted as water baptism. It is gross error to make either of those baptisms to be water. The baptism that saves is always Holy Spirit baptism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

First of all I have mentioned this a number of times, as well as others have done.
The Greek word translated to English in both Mark 16 and Matthew 28 is Baptizo which means immersion in water.

Second, not once did Jesus do away with the water usage in baptism, and did not stop His own disciples from baptizing in such manner. Instead He commanded them to keep doing so in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And as you can see from the book of Acts and the epistles written the use of water in baptism continued.

Again, The bible says whoever is born of him will do those things. Why do you think people who have true faith, and have been given the HS would never do anything for him, do you think that is even possible? it is not.



Yes you would, IN A SAVED STATE, but that is not what is being said in here, What is being said is you must do it to BE SAVED.

God commanded many things, In a saved state you would want to do those things,

As the bible says, the ones who are saved obey his commands, It does not say they obey to be saved, that would make salvation be of works, not of grace.

The problem with the circular thinking is that it is not part of a saved persons life, in order to prove one is saved is that there are many who say you don't need to be baptized to be saved. They even go further and say confession is not needed, nor is repentance.

The problem is with those three areas is that Jesus says specifically on two of those areas that if you do not do them then you are not saved. If you don't repent of sins, you will parish. ( Luke 13:3 ). Hince not saved, or no salvation here. Then when it comes to confession, He says if you deny Him He will deny you. ( Matthew 10:32-33 ) Hince not saved, or no salvation either. Baptism can be debated because people can easily say no mention of it and saved in same sentence. Problem with that is that in Mark 16:16 it is, but people want to separate the second half of this scripture from the first. This takes away how Jesus put baptism in the same frame of being saved.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

If you believe in Him as your Lord and Savior you will be baptized. If you do not believe in Him as your Lord and Savior you will not be baptized. Which would be denying Him and disobeying the greatest commandment.


Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.


I could even go further and mention the whole chapter of Matthew 25 which shows that only faithful obedient servants, disciples, sheep are given eternal life. People will try to say this only applies to during the tribulation period, but the problem with that thinking is that why would obedience only matter to those during the tribulation, and to those before us, the main Apostles, but not to us. When Jesus clearly said that obedience is required of us to.

Matthew 28:16-20


The Great Commission


16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

First of all I have mentioned this a number of times, as well as others have done.
The Greek word translated to English in both Mark 16 and Matthew 28 is Baptizo which means immersion in water.

That is not true. I am not sure where you get your greek information from. but that is not even close to being true.

The problem with the circular thinking is that it is not part of a saved persons life, in order to prove one is saved is that there are many who say you don't need to be baptized to be saved. They even go further and say confession is not needed, nor is repentance.

I have never heard anyone say confession of sin and repentance is not needed. How can one have faith in Christ without doing these two things, You can't. to say I have faith, yet am still focused on self with no humility, and unable to confess I am a sinner and have sinned against God, you are fooling yourself, and have yet to come to Christ,

And no one who has come to true faith would deny himself the rite of baptism and the blessings which come with it. But to say it is required is to add works to grace, making it wprks based, and not grace based.