What is hyper grace........
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Just because some terms that add hyper are not good things doesn't mean all are not.
Hyper-drive for instance is a good thing.
Hyper-grace means to ME means more grace. A lot of people have grace only defined as "undeserved mercy" but that's not a fully accurate picture. NO one is saying that hyper-grace is in the Bible. It's an IDEA that grace is more than just mercy it's also empowerment to walk about holiness. It's actually restoring the word grace from legalists who ignore Scriptures that define grace differently than they like.
So lets put to bed the lie that just because people have a problem with the term hyper-grace that its a heresy. Words like "cheap grace" ARE a heresy though, because grace was anything, but cheap. And for us there is no cost, because Christ paid it all, it's free to us. And anything else is a legalist view point. Because you're trying to earn something that was purchased by Christ's death. So we accept it FREELY. And this Grace is abundant and extreme in what it accomplishes.
C.
Hyper-drive for instance is a good thing.
Hyper-grace means to ME means more grace. A lot of people have grace only defined as "undeserved mercy" but that's not a fully accurate picture. NO one is saying that hyper-grace is in the Bible. It's an IDEA that grace is more than just mercy it's also empowerment to walk about holiness. It's actually restoring the word grace from legalists who ignore Scriptures that define grace differently than they like.
So lets put to bed the lie that just because people have a problem with the term hyper-grace that its a heresy. Words like "cheap grace" ARE a heresy though, because grace was anything, but cheap. And for us there is no cost, because Christ paid it all, it's free to us. And anything else is a legalist view point. Because you're trying to earn something that was purchased by Christ's death. So we accept it FREELY. And this Grace is abundant and extreme in what it accomplishes.
C.
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Blain, I consider you a friend, & I for one wouldn't call you that due to the people that are hypergracers are NOTHING like you. Because you love the Lord, you couldn't fit in with that group if you tried.
Lauren's 1st sentence here personifies me.
I was saved and accepted Jesus in 1992. But I still struggled with a number of long entrenched sins.
The same cycle repeated itself over and over again. I sinned. I felt horrible, unworthy, unclean, and CONDEMNATION. I told God I was sorry and said I wouldn't do it again. I remember marking in my mind, and sometimes on paper, how long I'd go between sins.
Wow! A whole moth this time! Heck, I could afford to indulge. Surely God can see how hard I'm trying. (This was the lie my flesh and satan told me). SINNED AGAIN! Noooooo! The guilt, the condemnation! Lord, forgive me this LAST time!
That was it. Satan and my flesh told me I'd used up all my Grace. I went in a tailspin that almost destroyed EVERYTHING from my life to my family to my job because I'd thought I'd blown it and was forever condemned. I COULDN'T go to Church, read Scripture, even listen to a Christian song without feeling dread and hopelessness.
YEARS later, the Lord drew me back. I ACTUALLY FELT His Presence, and heard Him say, as I found myself praying one morning, "Ed, ALL of your sins are forgiven"!!!!!!! I can't even begin to express my love to Him for opening His arms to me, when all I wanted at that point was to hope to be a lowly servant, like the Prodigal son.
INCREDIBLY, my sinning was FAR less. Some of the worst sins are no longer even a tiny part of my life.
ALL my trying, ALL my wishing, ALL MY LEGALIST THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS came tumbling down like a house of lies that have had a super nova shined on them. This is NOT theory for me. Relying SOLELY on Jesus sacrifice, THROUGH the Grace God has given me, is real and true.
So... Yeah.... I'ma hyper Gracer!!! And I love you whether you are one or not! And that love, seems to me, to be the dividing line between those accused of hyper Grace, and the accusers.
Peace, Grace, and Love to all, in Jesus sweet Name!
I was saved and accepted Jesus in 1992. But I still struggled with a number of long entrenched sins.
The same cycle repeated itself over and over again. I sinned. I felt horrible, unworthy, unclean, and CONDEMNATION. I told God I was sorry and said I wouldn't do it again. I remember marking in my mind, and sometimes on paper, how long I'd go between sins.
Wow! A whole moth this time! Heck, I could afford to indulge. Surely God can see how hard I'm trying. (This was the lie my flesh and satan told me). SINNED AGAIN! Noooooo! The guilt, the condemnation! Lord, forgive me this LAST time!
That was it. Satan and my flesh told me I'd used up all my Grace. I went in a tailspin that almost destroyed EVERYTHING from my life to my family to my job because I'd thought I'd blown it and was forever condemned. I COULDN'T go to Church, read Scripture, even listen to a Christian song without feeling dread and hopelessness.
YEARS later, the Lord drew me back. I ACTUALLY FELT His Presence, and heard Him say, as I found myself praying one morning, "Ed, ALL of your sins are forgiven"!!!!!!! I can't even begin to express my love to Him for opening His arms to me, when all I wanted at that point was to hope to be a lowly servant, like the Prodigal son.
INCREDIBLY, my sinning was FAR less. Some of the worst sins are no longer even a tiny part of my life.
ALL my trying, ALL my wishing, ALL MY LEGALIST THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS came tumbling down like a house of lies that have had a super nova shined on them. This is NOT theory for me. Relying SOLELY on Jesus sacrifice, THROUGH the Grace God has given me, is real and true.
So... Yeah.... I'ma hyper Gracer!!! And I love you whether you are one or not! And that love, seems to me, to be the dividing line between those accused of hyper Grace, and the accusers.
Peace, Grace, and Love to all, in Jesus sweet Name!
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Well said. My story is similar. I did everything I could to stay saved, but in the end I swallowed camels while trying to strain out gnats. My life didn't look like Jesus, I was depressed, I was anxiety ridden, I wasn't very loving because I didn't feel very loved. But when I realized how forgiven I was... wow... because those who have been forgiven much, love much. And then Holy Spirit showed me that His grace actually did transform me, and after that point I wasn't trying to change me, I was simply asking Him who I was in Christ. And once my mind was renewed the fruit of the Spirit started appearing in my life out of a place of rest.
And that's grace. It truly empowers us to live like sons of God. It empowers our holiness. It changes our mind with His goodness and kindness. It leads us to the ways of peace and life.
And later when I found out people called this idea of grace, "hyper-grace" because of the potential for people to abuse it. I laughed because in reality, grace is hyper in all it accomplishes, but few see it and less experience it.
Why? Because the natural mind opposes the things of the Spirit. And to just rely on His grace alone is a scary thing for those who don't know how much He loves.
C.
And that's grace. It truly empowers us to live like sons of God. It empowers our holiness. It changes our mind with His goodness and kindness. It leads us to the ways of peace and life.
And later when I found out people called this idea of grace, "hyper-grace" because of the potential for people to abuse it. I laughed because in reality, grace is hyper in all it accomplishes, but few see it and less experience it.
Why? Because the natural mind opposes the things of the Spirit. And to just rely on His grace alone is a scary thing for those who don't know how much He loves.
C.
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Blain, I consider you a friend, & I for one wouldn't call you that due to the people that are hypergracers are NOTHING like you. Because you love the Lord, you couldn't fit in with that group if you tried.
Unfortunately this is the reason to implement Romans 16:17 when this type of behavior goes unchecked.
Romans 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
I had the same thing happen to me. I never heard of this term before seeing it on the web a few times and then on here.
The interesting thing about this is that I did not learn about this true gospel of the grace of God that is in Christ our Lord initially from any preacher or teacher.
The Lord Himself sovereignly taught me.
I was just going about my own business and I had won a trip to Puerto Rico with my work. I remember in a social meeting one person in our group asked about heaven. I told them I know exactly where I am going. They said "how do you know that".
I told them " I am going to kneel before my Father and declare that His Son, my Lord Jesus Christ shed His blood for me and I am here because of Him."
They all looked at me as if I was from another planet. "I said this will be my greatest achievement if one can even call it that - and that is to kneel down and confess Jesus and what He has done". ( they were shocked because I had won more awards then many others and to them...performance was everything )
Then a few weeks later I woke up with a scripture in my spirit - not my head. I wrote it down and then every morning for a few months the Lord would drop a scripture in my spirit. I still to this day from time to time take out those scriptures and meditate on them ( which includes confessing/agreeing with them ) as I feel directed by the Lord.
Those scriptures that the Holy Spirit illuminated in my heart were the gospel of the grace of Christ and as I was learning more about them the Lord started me to look on the web for things and sure enough there were preachers preaching the same thing the Holy Spirit was showing me.
I had never heard of any of these preachers before the Lord directed me to them. So, I was taught the gospel of the grace of Christ before I ever heard another preacher talk about it.
I can remember times when the Holy Spirit would come upon me ( it seemed like He came upon me - or maybe welled up within me...I'm not sure but it felt like He wrapped me up as in a blanket of pure love ) - and He was teaching me things concerning Christ and the true nature of the Father.
His power is overwhelming and very heavy and I couldn't move a muscle but just sit there and weep as He revealed His love and grace to me. His love is the most overwhelming aspect of His presence. It is so strong and you can take much of it as it just overwhelms you.
Since then the Lord has led me to many different people from many denominations to learn what they are anointed to teach on.
This so-called "heresy" has made me deeper in love with the Lord and to know the Father more intimately. To love His word more than ever and to walk in a holier living life then I ever thought possible before. To love people more and to depend totally on what my Lord Jesus has done for me. That is the "fruit" of the Lord teaching me the true gospel of the grace of God.
I will never go back to that religion that negates the finished work of Christ for us. The religion of Christianity is a very poor substitute for the life that is in the true gospel of the grace of God revealed in the Lord Jesus Christ. As I have received Christ my Lord - so I will walk in Him.
It is all by grace through faith in what Christ has already done for us that we live the true Christian life and it is only found "in Him".
The interesting thing about this is that I did not learn about this true gospel of the grace of God that is in Christ our Lord initially from any preacher or teacher.
The Lord Himself sovereignly taught me.
I was just going about my own business and I had won a trip to Puerto Rico with my work. I remember in a social meeting one person in our group asked about heaven. I told them I know exactly where I am going. They said "how do you know that".
I told them " I am going to kneel before my Father and declare that His Son, my Lord Jesus Christ shed His blood for me and I am here because of Him."
They all looked at me as if I was from another planet. "I said this will be my greatest achievement if one can even call it that - and that is to kneel down and confess Jesus and what He has done". ( they were shocked because I had won more awards then many others and to them...performance was everything )
Then a few weeks later I woke up with a scripture in my spirit - not my head. I wrote it down and then every morning for a few months the Lord would drop a scripture in my spirit. I still to this day from time to time take out those scriptures and meditate on them ( which includes confessing/agreeing with them ) as I feel directed by the Lord.
Those scriptures that the Holy Spirit illuminated in my heart were the gospel of the grace of Christ and as I was learning more about them the Lord started me to look on the web for things and sure enough there were preachers preaching the same thing the Holy Spirit was showing me.
I had never heard of any of these preachers before the Lord directed me to them. So, I was taught the gospel of the grace of Christ before I ever heard another preacher talk about it.
I can remember times when the Holy Spirit would come upon me ( it seemed like He came upon me - or maybe welled up within me...I'm not sure but it felt like He wrapped me up as in a blanket of pure love ) - and He was teaching me things concerning Christ and the true nature of the Father.
His power is overwhelming and very heavy and I couldn't move a muscle but just sit there and weep as He revealed His love and grace to me. His love is the most overwhelming aspect of His presence. It is so strong and you can take much of it as it just overwhelms you.
Since then the Lord has led me to many different people from many denominations to learn what they are anointed to teach on.
This so-called "heresy" has made me deeper in love with the Lord and to know the Father more intimately. To love His word more than ever and to walk in a holier living life then I ever thought possible before. To love people more and to depend totally on what my Lord Jesus has done for me. That is the "fruit" of the Lord teaching me the true gospel of the grace of God.
I will never go back to that religion that negates the finished work of Christ for us. The religion of Christianity is a very poor substitute for the life that is in the true gospel of the grace of God revealed in the Lord Jesus Christ. As I have received Christ my Lord - so I will walk in Him.
It is all by grace through faith in what Christ has already done for us that we live the true Christian life and it is only found "in Him".
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You'd think a guy as young as you wouldn't be so blind & stuck in his ways. You DO NOT research nor weigh the evidence.
Thos WHOLE last year, I've seen HG folks use twisted one-verse wonders, use the wrong definitions of Greek words, lie, call people grace haters, call people legalists, deceive people, be downright hateful, not to mention flood the BDF with their doctrine. And YOU call that love?
Saying faith isn't real faith..... neither is saying "love" in all your statements real love.
Surely you've read the websites that all say the same thing about HG..... & you just blow them off?
John Crowder is a HG..... Do you toke the ghost with him?
Do you believe we are part of the Benjamin Generation?
The grace I know is powerful..... it needs no additions to it. It was fine before "they" changed it.
So, yeah, that's exactly what I said. You can't holler "christian", and then use deceit to no end.
Thos WHOLE last year, I've seen HG folks use twisted one-verse wonders, use the wrong definitions of Greek words, lie, call people grace haters, call people legalists, deceive people, be downright hateful, not to mention flood the BDF with their doctrine. And YOU call that love?
Saying faith isn't real faith..... neither is saying "love" in all your statements real love.
Surely you've read the websites that all say the same thing about HG..... & you just blow them off?
John Crowder is a HG..... Do you toke the ghost with him?
Do you believe we are part of the Benjamin Generation?
The grace I know is powerful..... it needs no additions to it. It was fine before "they" changed it.
So, yeah, that's exactly what I said. You can't holler "christian", and then use deceit to no end.
Stephen,
You're right some people have it wrong, but it's bitterness to label an entire group of people as derogatory. I do weigh the evidence my friend, I've read many of your posts, mostly I've seen you argue and attack people. Even me. I see many forms of the works of the flesh in your postings and honestly very little of the fruit of the spirit. Once again you attack me by saying I don't "research" because I have different conclusions to you.
That doesn't mean I don't like you as a person, I've read a lot of posts where you comment with Scripture and sound Scripture ideas. I'm not sure what love looks like to you, or "hollering Christian" as you call it. But just because other people are mislead doesn't give us right to do so. I suggest you apologize for your comments and get with the Lord about showing the love of God. And correcting those who may be mislead with a spirit of gentleness not with biting, divisive words. Because in reality I've seen you do much of what you claim other people are doing. And is that really the testimony you want to give the Lord?
Do you really think arguing that people need to stay saved is going to keep you saved? Because if you can lose your salvation it's actually the love we show one another that would determine it. It's a good thing, I don't believe people can lose their salvation because we've really got a lot of it twisted. So much self-righteousness and very little love for one another. And that is the ONE criteria that Jesus actually gave us. He didn't actually say those who were His disciples would argue for the "correct theology" because even if we "know it" it's if we live it - that actually shows if we know God.
Romans 12:10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Outdo yourselves in honoring one another.
You're right some people have it wrong, but it's bitterness to label an entire group of people as derogatory. I do weigh the evidence my friend, I've read many of your posts, mostly I've seen you argue and attack people. Even me. I see many forms of the works of the flesh in your postings and honestly very little of the fruit of the spirit. Once again you attack me by saying I don't "research" because I have different conclusions to you.
That doesn't mean I don't like you as a person, I've read a lot of posts where you comment with Scripture and sound Scripture ideas. I'm not sure what love looks like to you, or "hollering Christian" as you call it. But just because other people are mislead doesn't give us right to do so. I suggest you apologize for your comments and get with the Lord about showing the love of God. And correcting those who may be mislead with a spirit of gentleness not with biting, divisive words. Because in reality I've seen you do much of what you claim other people are doing. And is that really the testimony you want to give the Lord?
Do you really think arguing that people need to stay saved is going to keep you saved? Because if you can lose your salvation it's actually the love we show one another that would determine it. It's a good thing, I don't believe people can lose their salvation because we've really got a lot of it twisted. So much self-righteousness and very little love for one another. And that is the ONE criteria that Jesus actually gave us. He didn't actually say those who were His disciples would argue for the "correct theology" because even if we "know it" it's if we live it - that actually shows if we know God.
Romans 12:10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Outdo yourselves in honoring one another.
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I don't. I just can't understand someone as smart as you still clings to this doctrine. I don't dislike you..... What bothers me is folks agree that in the last days false doctrine will run rampant & then swallow the newest, the worst false doctrine out there. It just doesn't make sense, that's all.
This is my revelation
Christ Jesus crucified
Salvation through repentance
At the cross on which He died
Now hear my absolution
Forgiveness for my sin
And I sink beneath the waters
That Christ was buried in
I will rise
I will rise
As Christ was raised to life
Now in Him
Now in Him I live
I stand a new creation
Baptised in blood and fire
No fear of condemnation
By faith i'm justified
I will rise
I will rise
As Christ was raised to life
Now in Him
Now in Him I live
[video=youtube;mTwA3NLEjY4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTwA3NLEjY4[/video]
Christ Jesus crucified
Salvation through repentance
At the cross on which He died
Now hear my absolution
Forgiveness for my sin
And I sink beneath the waters
That Christ was buried in
I will rise
I will rise
As Christ was raised to life
Now in Him
Now in Him I live
I stand a new creation
Baptised in blood and fire
No fear of condemnation
By faith i'm justified
I will rise
I will rise
As Christ was raised to life
Now in Him
Now in Him I live
[video=youtube;mTwA3NLEjY4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTwA3NLEjY4[/video]
If you don't understand why I believe in this doctrine, I am perfectly willing to share why. I would actually love to have that conversation with you.
Here's the Scripture I believe you're quoting:
2 Tim 3 1But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.
Please notice in this Scripture that in the last days people will be:
1. Lovers of self (self-righteousness, self-protection, self-pleasure, etc.)
2. People won't love God or each other
3. People won't love what is good
4. People won't believe the gospel transforms people to love God or people (they deny it's power).
5. These people will be proud (not open to correction)
6. These people will be arrogant (not open to other opinions)
7. These people will be ungrateful (not thankful)
And what I have found in my life and the lives I've witnessed, that the doctrine of grace that empowers people to love God and be transformed by Him actually results in more love for Him and for each other. This doctrine is what many would call "hyper-grace", but it's simply grace. Grace that actually accomplishes what it was set forth to do.
Because when people THINK they have to do it in their ability, that's when they get prideful, arrogant, self-righteous, ungrateful, and fearful because they are "protecting" what they are scared to lose. And when people poke at what they protect they attack because that is where their safety lies.
Grace always, always, points us to His power not our own. Because no man can boast. It is His FREE gift that transforms us. And thus it reveals His glory first in us and then through us. It is truly good news.
C.
Here's the Scripture I believe you're quoting:
2 Tim 3 1But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.
Please notice in this Scripture that in the last days people will be:
1. Lovers of self (self-righteousness, self-protection, self-pleasure, etc.)
2. People won't love God or each other
3. People won't love what is good
4. People won't believe the gospel transforms people to love God or people (they deny it's power).
5. These people will be proud (not open to correction)
6. These people will be arrogant (not open to other opinions)
7. These people will be ungrateful (not thankful)
And what I have found in my life and the lives I've witnessed, that the doctrine of grace that empowers people to love God and be transformed by Him actually results in more love for Him and for each other. This doctrine is what many would call "hyper-grace", but it's simply grace. Grace that actually accomplishes what it was set forth to do.
Because when people THINK they have to do it in their ability, that's when they get prideful, arrogant, self-righteous, ungrateful, and fearful because they are "protecting" what they are scared to lose. And when people poke at what they protect they attack because that is where their safety lies.
Grace always, always, points us to His power not our own. Because no man can boast. It is His FREE gift that transforms us. And thus it reveals His glory first in us and then through us. It is truly good news.
C.
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D
Dolly Parton does a wonderful song called "I believe in Santa Claus." It stirs me.
And then I remember just because it stirs me doesn't mean I believe what she believes. I think this often with Hillsong. They're very passionate. They stir to my depth. They're also very wrong. Salvation isn't through repentance. It's through Christ. Repentance is what happens after salvation. Salvation is cause. Repentance is effect.
And then I remember just because it stirs me doesn't mean I believe what she believes. I think this often with Hillsong. They're very passionate. They stir to my depth. They're also very wrong. Salvation isn't through repentance. It's through Christ. Repentance is what happens after salvation. Salvation is cause. Repentance is effect.
Some of that type thinking comes from embracing the thought that they sin but not as much as that guy over there,therefore,GOD accepts me more but the bible says we all come short of the glory of GOD and If we offend the law at any point,we have offended It ALL so then whether they miss heaven by an inch or a mile,they still missed It by GOD's standard.
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