What is the Name of the Father and the Messiah?

[phil36]

You supply ther teachings of men over Scripture and accuse left and right, I have no worries about your assessments.



perfect example.

Matthew 7:1-5, “Do not judge, lest you be judged. For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged. And with the same measure you use, it shall be measured to you. And why do you look at the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the plank in your own eye? Or how is it that you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the splinter out of your eye,’ and see, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you shall see clearly to remove the splinter out of your brother’s eye.”
​

Hi Hizikyah,

Yes you can say all you like that I follow the teachings of man..which by implication means your are Holier superior.

But lets look at the facts. You continually to use a proven false name for Jesus. That is bordering on Blasphemy, how does that sit with the commandments?

 

[Hizikyah]

Hi Hizikyah,

Yes you can say all you like that I follow the teachings of man..which by implication means your are Holier superior.

But lets look at the facts. You continually to use a proven false name for Jesus. That is bordering on Blasphemy, how does that sit with the commandments?

I never implied any holier than thou anything, you just made this up, as you accuse me of this and that.

I have been proven a false name.... let me see:

“Jesus” is word #G2424 Ἰησοῦς Iesous (yee-sous') n/p., 1. (meaning) He is Salvation, Yahweh saves (i.e. the Savior)., 2. (person) Jesus (i.e. Yeshua, Yehoshua), the name of our Lord, also called the Last Adam., 3. (person) Joshua (i.e. Yehoshua) an Israelite, the servant and successor of Moses., 4. (person) Jeshua, also called Justus, an Israelite, a coworker with Paul., 5. (NOTE) (“Jesus” is a valid English transliteration, coming from Ancient Hebrew to Koine Greek (via the Septuagint) to Latin to Old English to Modern English. It is completely acceptable to God (Yahweh) for us call upon the Savior's name as “Jesus,” or “Iesous,” or “Yeshua,” or even “Yesu” as in Christian Arabic or in the Fijian Islands, et al. God prepared for all nations to be able to trust in the Savior and to call upon his name by preparing a language dialect for international use: the Hebraic-Koine Greek. Thus, technically and formally, the pronunciation “Iesous” was intentionally established by the Savior as the common basis for Jewish and Gentile acknowledgment of his Redemption and Salvation, going forth as needed into every tribe, native tongue, people, and nation. “Yeshua” is of course delightfully acceptable to him, when it is not used as an exclusionary name. Love edifies)., 6. (NOTE) (Revelation 3:12)., [of Hebrew origin (H3442 as the shortened form of H3091)], KJV: Jesus, Root(s): H3442, See also: H3091


Root word of “Jesus” is word #H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l., 1. he will save., 2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel., [for H3091], KJV: Jeshua. , Root(s): H3091


Root word of “Jesus” is word #H3091 יְהוֹשׁוּעַ YhowShuw`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah) n/p., יְהוֹשֻׁעַ YhowShu`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah), 1. Yahweh-saved.2. Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader., [from H3068 and H3467], KJV: Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua., Root(s): H3068, H3467, Compare: H1954, H3442

seems to me you are straing at a gnat while swallowing a camel.

 

[phil36]

I never implied any holier than thou anything, you just made this up, as you accuse me of this and that.

I have been proven a false name.... let me see:

“Jesus” is word #G2424 Ἰησοῦς Iesous (yee-sous') n/p., 1. (meaning) He is Salvation, Yahweh saves (i.e. the Savior)., 2. (person) Jesus (i.e. Yeshua, Yehoshua), the name of our Lord, also called the Last Adam., 3. (person) Joshua (i.e. Yehoshua) an Israelite, the servant and successor of Moses., 4. (person) Jeshua, also called Justus, an Israelite, a coworker with Paul., 5. (NOTE) (“Jesus” is a valid English transliteration, coming from Ancient Hebrew to Koine Greek (via the Septuagint) to Latin to Old English to Modern English. It is completely acceptable to God (Yahweh) for us call upon the Savior's name as “Jesus,” or “Iesous,” or “Yeshua,” or even “Yesu” as in Christian Arabic or in the Fijian Islands, et al. God prepared for all nations to be able to trust in the Savior and to call upon his name by preparing a language dialect for international use: the Hebraic-Koine Greek. Thus, technically and formally, the pronunciation “Iesous” was intentionally established by the Savior as the common basis for Jewish and Gentile acknowledgment of his Redemption and Salvation, going forth as needed into every tribe, native tongue, people, and nation. “Yeshua” is of course delightfully acceptable to him, when it is not used as an exclusionary name. Love edifies)., 6. (NOTE) (Revelation 3:12)., [of Hebrew origin (H3442 as the shortened form of H3091)], KJV: Jesus, Root(s): H3442, See also: H3091


Root word of “Jesus” is word #H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l., 1. he will save., 2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel., [for H3091], KJV: Jeshua. , Root(s): H3091


Root word of “Jesus” is word #H3091 יְהוֹשׁוּעַ YhowShuw`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah) n/p., יְהוֹשֻׁעַ YhowShu`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah), 1. Yahweh-saved.2. Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader., [from H3068 and H3467], KJV: Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua., Root(s): H3068, H3467, Compare: H1954, H3442

seems to me you are straing at a gnat while swallowing a camel.

Post #30, shows the falseness of all this Hebrew roots nonsense.

 

[MarcR]

Before around 600 ad there were no vowel points, the vowel points were aded at least in part to prohibit the pronuciation of His name and rather use adonai and elohim;

THE PROHIBITION OF USE OF THE NAMES OF GOD.
The prohibition applies both to the pronunciation of the name of God and its committal to writing, apart from its use in sacred writings. The prohibition against the pronunciation of the name of God applies only to the Tetragrammaton, which could be pronounced by the high priest only once a year on the Day of Atonement in the Holy of Holies (cf. Mishnah Yoma 6:2), and in the Temple by the priests when they recited the Priestly Blessings (Sot. 7:6; see also Ch. Albeck (ed.), Seder Nashim (1954), 387). As the Talmud expresses it: "Not as I am written am I pronounced. I am written yod he vav he, and I am pronounced alef dalet" (nun yod, i.e., Adonai; Kid. 71a).


The Encyclopedia Judaica, Volume 7 page 680
The personal name... written in the Hebrew Bible with the four consonants YHWH and is referred to as the "Tetragrammaton." At least until the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. this name was regularly pronounced with its proper vowels, as is clear from the Lachish Letters, written shortly before that date. But at least by the third century B.C.E. the pronunciation of the name YHWH was avoided and Adonai,"the Lord,"was substituted for it.



View attachment 176439 View attachment 176439



and His name was pronounced since Genesis;

Genesis 4:26, "And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. It was then that the Name of YHWH began to be invoked again."

it is jewish talmudic superstition that says the name in unpronouncable;


Talmud - Mas. Yoma 39b
His brethren [that year] the priests forbore to mention the Ineffable Name (YHWH) in pronouncing the [priestly] blessing.4 Our Rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot [‘For the Lord’] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-coloured strap become white/"


International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - ADONAI
a-do'-ni, ad-o-na'-i ('adhonay): A Divine name, translated "Lord," and signifying, from its derivation, "sovereignty." Its vowels are found in the Massoretic Text with the unpronounceable tetragrammaton YHWH; and when the Hebrew reader came to these letters, he always substituted in pronunciation the word " 'adhonay," (Lord). Its vowels combined with the tetragrammaton form the word "YHWH (YHWH)."

It is universally agreed among both Jewish and Christian scholars that יְהֹוָה is an attempt to superimpose the pointings of אֲדֹנָי Adonai on the tetragrammaton. The ֲ patach chatuph on the א aleph of אֲדֹנָי Adonai is changed to a ְshvah in the יְ yod of יְהֹוָה YHVH only because in Hebrew orthography a י yod cannot take a ֲ patach chatuph.

I don't have any idea what you are calling the 'best biblical manuscripts' because all the examples you pasted in your diatribe are standard synthetic pointings never intended to be the authentic pointing. Your Yahweh pretends to be a correct pronunciation and I have demonstrated by basic rules of grammar that it is not only incorrect it violates Hebrew grammar quite obviously. The present active participle ALWAYS points the first consonant with a cholem and ALWAYS points the second consonant with a Shvah. ANYONE who has an elementary knowledge of Hebrew knows this and doesn't need to guess at it. The pointings of the vahv and the second he are unknown and unknowable.

 

[Hizikyah]

Post #30, shows the falseness of all this Hebrew roots nonsense.

New International Version

Mat 23:39, "Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.”


In the original Hebrew version He says:
Mat 23:39And as they were going to report to His taught ones, see, יהושע met them saying, “יהוה has saved you!” And they came and held Him by the feet and did bow to Him."


H3068 יְהוָה Yhvah (yeh-vaw') n/p.
יְהוָֹה Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw')
יְהוֹ Yhow (yeh-ho') [as a prefix]
1. (meaning) the self-Existent or Eternal, the I AM.
2. (person) Yahweh (Yehvah), Jewish national name of God.
3. (anglicized) Jehovah.
4. (as a name prefix) Yeho-.
5. (As expressed in Hebraic Koine Greek) ἐγώ εἰμί, I AM (literally: I myself, I am).
[from H1961]
KJV: Jehovah, the Lord.
Root(s): H1961
Compare: H3050, H3069
See also: G1510


H3467 יָשַׁע yasha` (yaw-shah') v.
1. (properly) to be open, wide or free from captivity.
2. (by implication) to be safe.
3. (causatively) to rescue or succor.
[a primitive root]
KJV: X at all, avenging, defend, deliver(-er), help, preserve, rescue, be safe, bring (having) salvation, save(-iour), get victory.
Compare: H2666, H7768
See also: H3444, H3468, H3469, H4190, H4337, G5614


H1954 הוֹשֵַׁע Howshea` (ho-shay'-ah) n/p.
1. (meaning) rescuer.
2. (person) Hoshea, the birth name of Yehoshua (Joshua), son of Nun.
3. (person) Hoshea, son of Elah, a king of Israel, conspirator against Pekah.
4. (person) Hoshea, son of Azazyahu.
5. (person) Hoshea, a chief among the People in Nehemiah's day.
6. (person) Hosea (son of Beeri), the name an Israelite prophet.
[from H3467]
KJV: Hosea, Hoshea, Oshea.
Root(s): H3467
Compare: H3091, H5126


H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l.
1. he will save.
2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel.
[for H3091]
KJV: Jeshua.
Root(s): H3091


H3091 יְהוֹשׁוּעַ YhowShuw`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah) n/p.
יְהוֹשֻׁעַ YhowShu`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah)
1. Yahweh-saved.
2. Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader.
[from H3068 and H3467]
KJV: Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua.
Root(s): H3068, H3467
Compare: H1954, H3442

 

[Hizikyah]

It is universally agreed among both Jewish and Christian scholars that יְהֹוָה is an attempt to superimpose the pointings of אֲדֹנָי Adonai on the tetragrammaton. The ֲpatach chatuph on the א aleph of אֲדֹנָי Adonai is changed to a ְshvah in the יְ yod of יְהֹוָה YHVH only because in Hebrew orthography a י yod cannot take a ֲ patach chatuph.

I don't have any idea what you are calling the 'best biblical manuscripts' because all the examples you pasted in your diatribe are standard synthetic pointings never intended to be the authentic pointing. Your Yahweh pretends to be a correct pronunciation and I have demonstrated by basic rules of grammar that it is not only incorrect it violates Hebrew grammar quite obviously. The present active participle ALWAYS points the first consonant with a cholem and ALWAYS points the second consonant with a Shvah. ANYONE who has an elementary knowledge of Hebrew knows this and doesn't need to guess at it. The pointings of the vahv and the second he are unknown and unknowable.

SO vowel pointing being invented at the earliest date of 600AD, how was the name ever pronounced before this? You agree that the pointings are to make YHWH pronounced as adonai and elohim, then how can we look to the vowel pointings for proper pronunciation? Also never have I ever condemmed anyone for a differnt pronunciation, I have studied and prayed and use what I feel is right, but I do not believe that vowel points added to have the name as adonai or elohim have any bearing on it's true pronunciation.

 

[nddreamer]

Dear Hizikyah, "The strength of your fathers. This is my name forever, and this is my remembrance to all generations." I know what this means. The Hebrew text is more beautifully descriptive than the KJV. One of these days could you give us Balaam's parable (Num. 24:5-9) from the Hebrew text? It's a very pretty piece.

 

[MarcR]

New International Version

Mat 23:39, "Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.”


In the original Hebrew version He says:
Mat 23:39And as they were going to report to His taught ones, see, יהושע met them saying, “יהוה has saved you!” And they came and held Him by the feet and did bow to Him."


H3068 יְהוָה Yhvah (yeh-vaw') n/p.
יְהוָֹה Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw')
יְהוֹ Yhow (yeh-ho') [as a prefix]
1. (meaning) the self-Existent or Eternal, the I AM.
2. (person) Yahweh (Yehvah), Jewish national name of God.
3. (anglicized) Jehovah.
4. (as a name prefix) Yeho-.
5. (As expressed in Hebraic Koine Greek) ἐγώ εἰμί, I AM (literally: I myself, I am).
[from H1961]
KJV: Jehovah, the Lord.
Root(s): H1961
Compare: H3050, H3069
See also: G1510


H3467 יָשַׁע yasha` (yaw-shah') v.
1. (properly) to be open, wide or free from captivity.
2. (by implication) to be safe.
3. (causatively) to rescue or succor.
[a primitive root]
KJV: X at all, avenging, defend, deliver(-er), help, preserve, rescue, be safe, bring (having) salvation, save(-iour), get victory.
Compare: H2666, H7768
See also: H3444, H3468, H3469, H4190, H4337, G5614


H1954 הוֹשֵַׁע Howshea` (ho-shay'-ah) n/p.
1. (meaning) rescuer.
2. (person) Hoshea, the birth name of Yehoshua (Joshua), son of Nun.
3. (person) Hoshea, son of Elah, a king of Israel, conspirator against Pekah.
4. (person) Hoshea, son of Azazyahu.
5. (person) Hoshea, a chief among the People in Nehemiah's day.
6. (person) Hosea (son of Beeri), the name an Israelite prophet.
[from H3467]
KJV: Hosea, Hoshea, Oshea.
Root(s): H3467
Compare: H3091, H5126


H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l.
1. he will save.
2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel.
[for H3091]
KJV: Jeshua.
Root(s): H3091


H3091 יְהוֹשׁוּעַ YhowShuw`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah) n/p.
יְהוֹשֻׁעַ YhowShu`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah)
1. Yahweh-saved.
2. Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader.
[from H3068 and H3467]
KJV: Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua.
Root(s): H3068, H3467
Compare: H1954, H3442

H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l. Your yod is pointed with a patach AH not AY which needs a Tsayre
1. he will save. If you use a lexicon instead of Strongs Concordance you will realize this is garbage!
2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel. It is a short form of yohashua Joshua
[for H3091]
KJV: Jeshua.
Root(s): H3091


Try H3444 יְשׁוּעָ Y'shua Salvation.

 

[Hizikyah]

H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l. Your yod is pointed with a patach AH not AY which needs a Tsayre
1. he will save. If you use a lexicon instead of Strongs Concordance you will realize this is garbage!
2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel. It is a short form of yohashua Joshua
[for H3091]
KJV: Jeshua.
Root(s): H3091


Try H3444 יְשׁוּעָ Y'shua Salvation.

when you say " It is a short form of yohashua Joshua"

do you mean that "yohashua" is correct in your ciew of the short form is correct in ytour view?

also what do you think about the prohibition of using the name of YHWH in the second temple period (i think 586B if I remember correctly) in relation to what one He (the Messiah) was actually named by the holy spirit as opposed to what was common at that time?

H3444 יְשׁוּעָה yshuw`ah (yesh-oo'-aw) n-f.
1. something saved.
2. (abstractly) the act or instance of saving or rescuing a soul.
3. (hence) protective aid, victory, prosperity.
4. custodial salvation (that is, in the protective, custodial care of another).
5. (specially) custodial Salvation through the Anointed-One, Yeshua.
[feminine passive participle of H3467]
KJV: deliverance, health, help(-ing), salvation, save, saving (health), welfare.
Root(s): H3467
Compare: H3468
See also: G4992, G4991

- Original: ישׁוּע
- Transliteration: Yeshuwa`
- Phonetic: yay-shoo'-ah
- Definition: Jeshua = "he is saved"
1. son of Nun of the tribe of Ephraim and successor to Moses as the leader of the children of Israel; led the conquest of Canaan (noun proper masculine)
2. son of Jehozadak and high priest after the restoration (noun proper masculine)
3. a priest in the time of David who had charge of the 9th course (noun proper masculine)
4. a Levite in the reign of Hezekiah (noun proper masculine)
5. head of a Levitical house which returned from captivity in Babylon (noun proper masculine)
6. father of a builder of the wall of Jerusalem in the time of Nehemiah (noun proper masculine)
7. a town in southern Judah reinhabited by the people of Judah after the return from captivity (noun proper locative)
- Origin: for H3091 *
- TWOT entry: None
- Part(s) of speech: see above in Definition

 

[MarcR]

James Strong's Hebrew skills were NOT his strongest skill.
John McClintock of McClintock and Strong Encycloredia had Hebrew Skills only slightly better.

Strong's Concordance and McClintock and Strong Encycloredia are two of the most useful reference works available; but we should know their limitations.

I would not compare my scholarship with either of these two men; but my Hebrew skills exceed theirs.

 

[stillness]

That would depend on the language I am using, I speak 2 language, and we all have a language of our own to call on the name of the Lord and a praying in the Spirit language if we desire. To get past the arguments of men, "All who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Read between the lines, I don't need to give you a name, either you have one or you don't and I can't help that can I?

The Lord spoke to me the first time when I was saying the name of Jesus as a mantra. He said: Behold if you call on the name of the Lord He will come. I was 22 at the time, this is 40 years later, like the journey in the wilderness.
Here is the account:

In the beginning of searching for spiritual reality, chose to repeat the name of Jesus and chose Him as Spiritual Master. Once when asked why I chose Him, replied "I know I can trust Him and that I can't trust anyone else with my life". When I said this the house I stayed in shook; left with the impression it was an evil spirit: "demons also believe, and tremble"; others in this commune house also felt the oppression of an evil spirit connected with the house. I was living with a woman without marriage commitment, once while in the house looking into each other's eyes, felt violence for no reason, we both felt it and agreed to get out of the house for a walk. This strengthened my resolve to be saying the Name of Jesus for protection. The first clear memory I have of the Lord communicating with me was not in a word but reproof of the pride of my heart: for thinking I knew a lot about the bible, and agreeing to humble myself. Then one evening sitting on the floor of the room, repeating the name of Jesus, the Lord answered me: saying "Behold if you call upon the name of the Lord He'll come." This was the first time the Lord spoke to me, and the only time He spoke in a loud voice that pierced my heart like a sword, giving me the impression of a shell bursting like a balloon (likely my ego). I fell unconscious and thought I died, but was not worried at all, as I knew He did this, so I was in His care and it felt good to be there, feeling Loved and accepted. The woman who was with me in the room did not hear the voice and thought I fell asleep on the floor. I slept on the floor from around 11 at night till 7 in the morning. On waking my first thought was, something happened last night but what was it. I was back as before and could not relate. 1Corintians 2:14 That’s why only someone who has God’s Spirit can understand spiritual blessings. Anyone who doesn’t have God’s Spirit thinks these blessings are foolish.

The second time the Lord spoke to me, He said, "Everywhere you look you'll see the cross", I understood I had to make my choice in life, whether I was going to live for myself or for Him. Now I understand It's a daily choice to follow Him in His suffering and death to end our life that is controlled by desire and pride of achievement: bound in our comfort zone. We all come short of His glory and rely on His grace as divine influence upon the heart to live in the relationship Jesus has in constant fellowship with the Father, that He left as our inheritance in His will: "Go in My Name", to enter into His Identity as a son in the resurrection. Those who overcome the world in His Name.

 

[Hizikyah]

James Strong's Hebrew skills were NOT his strongest skill.
John McClintock of McClintock and Strong Encycloredia had Hebrew Skills only slightly better.

Strong's Concordance and McClintock and Strong Encycloredia are two of the most useful reference works available; but we should know their limitations.

I would not compare my scholarship with either of these two men; but my Hebrew skills exceed theirs.

I totally understand and even agree, and I do respect you views on the Hebrew language, you clearly have understanding. I like Mickelson's strongs, it seems to be more accurate in most if not all areas of difference, but I use other resources also, Brown-Driver-Briggs has a bit more complete explanations. If we loof at the resources throug hthe years it is shown there are mistakes, I have some from pre 73' that have some thigns more accurate than the modern versions, but only in a few cases. I think a big point of understanding would come in at the vowel pointing, their intentions, differences etc. I personally prefer to go back as far as possible, but I know the farther we go back the harder the language is to be certian of, may Yah lead us to His truth.

 

[MarcR]

when you say " It is a short form of yohashua Joshua"

do you mean that "yohashua" is correct in your ciew of the short form is correct in ytour view?

also what do you think about the prohibition of using the name of YHWH in the second temple period (i think 586B if I remember correctly) in relation to what one He (the Messiah) was actually named by the holy spirit as opposed to what was common at that time?

H3444 יְשׁוּעָה yshuw`ah (yesh-oo'-aw) n-f.
1. something saved.
2. (abstractly) the act or instance of saving or rescuing a soul.
3. (hence) protective aid, victory, prosperity.
4. custodial salvation (that is, in the protective, custodial care of another).
5. (specially) custodial Salvation through the Anointed-One, Yeshua.
[feminine passive participle of H3467]
KJV: deliverance, health, help(-ing), salvation, save, saving (health), welfare.
Root(s): H3467
Compare: H3468
See also: G4992, G4991

- Original: ישׁוּע
- Transliteration: Yeshuwa`
- Phonetic: yay-shoo'-ah
- Definition: Jeshua = "he is saved"
1. son of Nun of the tribe of Ephraim and successor to Moses as the leader of the children of Israel; led the conquest of Canaan (noun proper masculine)
2. son of Jehozadak and high priest after the restoration (noun proper masculine)
3. a priest in the time of David who had charge of the 9th course (noun proper masculine)
4. a Levite in the reign of Hezekiah (noun proper masculine)
5. head of a Levitical house which returned from captivity in Babylon (noun proper masculine)
6. father of a builder of the wall of Jerusalem in the time of Nehemiah (noun proper masculine)
7. a town in southern Judah reinhabited by the people of Judah after the return from captivity (noun proper locative)
- Origin: for H3091 *
- TWOT entry: None
- Part(s) of speech: see above in Definition

Bob is a short form of Robert. It can be either a nickname or a given name. It is neither more or less correct than Robert it is just an alternate form. Bobbie is a feminine diminutive of Robert and Roberta is a feminine form of Robert. Both are correct and neither is superior or inferior to Robert.

Jeshua (Yashua) is a short form of Joshua (Yohashua) it is neither more right or more wrong it is simply an alternate form.

 

[Hizikyah]

Bob is a short form of Robert. It can be either a nickname or a given name. It is neither more or less correct than Robert it is just an alternate form. Bobbie is a feminine diminutive of Robert and Roberta is a feminine form of Robert. Both are correct and neither is superior or inferior to Robert.

Jeshua (Yashua) is a short form of Joshua (Yohashua) it is neither more right or more wrong it is simply an alternate form.

They do both mean a very similar meaning. It is very interesting to me about the ban on the Name YHWH and it's effect, because after the ban we see the sort form used, the is why I believe it starts with yod hey. JMO.

 

[MarcR]

SO vowel pointing being invented at the earliest date of 600AD, how was the name ever pronounced before this? You agree that the pointings are to make YHWH pronounced as adonai and elohim, then how can we look to the vowel pointings for proper pronunciation? Also never have I ever condemmed anyone for a differnt pronunciation, I have studied and prayed and use what I feel is right, but I do not believe that vowel points added to have the name as adonai or elohim have any bearing on it's true pronunciation.

If you write English without vowels you will have little difficulty reading it, in most cases. Occasionally homonyms will both fit the context but that would be rare.

Vowels make the language much easier to read. It is the same with Hebrew. In the first century, it was not uncommon for young men to memorize large portions of Scripture, even entire books. Scripture would be recited more often than read.

 

[Hizikyah]

If you write English without vowels you will have little difficulty reading it, in most cases. Occasionally homonyms will both fit the context but that would be rare.

Vowels make the language much easier to read. It is the same with Hebrew. In the first century, it was not uncommon for young men to memorize large portions of Scripture, even entire books. Scripture would be recited more often than read.

yes I heard it was a requirement to study under some teaches to know the entire torah by verbally reciting it. Rather amazing. and i get it that the vowel points make it easier, howevr the vowel pointing of YHWH to r\be read as adonai or elohim is not to make it readable but to make it unread. No matter if it was sinister or superstition, it remais as a tool to make it not vocalized when read.

 

[abcdef]

Jesus has a secret name that only those who are sealed know.

It is not a name that can be spoken by men, it's not something like a word that can be spelled out.

In every heart that is His, it is the same.

It is a name that can only be spoken by the heart.

Some have tried to put a human name on it, the Holy Spirit, the love of God, or the heart or mind of Christ.

I think that when we cry out in the Spirit, in our hearts, in times of great pain and suffering, we call His name,

Not with words, yes, sometimes with words, but in the times of pain so great, that we cannot speak a word. Some know what I mean.

That is the time when our spirits, our hearts, cry out, cry out to Jesus.

Sure, we call Him Jesus, others have different names, but, it's the same Spirit, the same heart that we call on our Savior to help us.

His name is on our hearts, in our hearts. We speak to Him with our hearts, he knows our heart.

In the end, when we pass to the next world, it won't be the words that we speak, it will be the heart that knows the name of the Savior, we will know Him by heart, and He will know us by our hearts,

We won't need words to call His name, our hearts will call His name.

 

[MarcR]

yes I heard it was a requirement to study under some teaches to know the entire torah by verbally reciting it. Rather amazing. and i get it that the vowel points make it easier, howevr the vowel pointing of YHWH to r\be read as adonai or elohim is not to make it readable but to make it unread. No matter if it was sinister or superstition, it remais as a tool to make it not vocalized when read.

It was considered a show of respect to avoid pronouncing the name, so that there would be no possibility of either mispronouncing it or inadvertently taking it in vain.

 

[Hizikyah]

It was considered a show of respect to avoid pronouncing the name, so that there would be no possibility of either mispronouncing it or inadvertently taking it in vain.

and maybe it was the intent of some, and maybe the lay people had been told that, howver YHWH says the root of it is different:

Jeremiah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds; Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal."


Jeremiah 16:19-21, "O YHWH, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles will come to You from the ends of the earth, and will say: Surely our fathers have inherited nothing but lies and vanity of no use at all! Do men make gods for themselves? Yes, but they are powerless! Therefore behold, I will make them to know--this time I will teach them My power and might; and they will know that My Name is YHWH!"



Isayah 52:6, "Therefore My people will know My Name; Therefore they will know in that day that I am He Who speaks. Behold, it is I!"

Yah says " they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds; Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name"

so at some time it must have been on purpose, and probably others following this unknowingly.

 

[MarcR]

and maybe it was the intent of some, and maybe the lay people had been told that, howver YHWH says the root of it is different:

Jeremiah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds; Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal."


Jeremiah 16:19-21, "O YHWH, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles will come to You from the ends of the earth, and will say: Surely our fathers have inherited nothing but lies and vanity of no use at all! Do men make gods for themselves? Yes, but they are powerless! Therefore behold, I will make them to know--this time I will teach them My power and might; and they will know that My Name is YHWH!"



Isayah 52:6, "Therefore My people will know My Name; Therefore they will know in that day that I am He Who speaks. Behold, it is I!"

Yah says " they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds; Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name"

so at some time it must have been on purpose, and probably others following this unknowingly.

You need to remember that the Hebrew word 'Shem' name has the primary meaning of authotity. Appellation (what a person is called) is only a secondary meaning.

Jeremiah 23:26-27, Jeremiah 16:19-21, and Isayah 52:6 are about God's authority not about how YHWH is pronounced. By the way, YHWH should be YHVH.

The concept of YHWH is the only self-existent one.