What of the dinosaurs?

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Aug 25, 2013
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Of course the die-hard evolutionists will cry "Creationist site! Invalid! Can't be science."

But it might be wise for the Christian having a casual interest in enough fact to settle this issue and remain on friendly terms with the book of Genesis and any crowd of Bible skeptics, to take a close look at the very friendly Serving and Sharing: Cory Collins: Soft Tissue Found in Dinosaur Bone? Uh-Oh!



Those are from inside a supposedly multimillion year old dinosaur fossil bone. From there follow some links to more authoritative sources, seeing for yourself what dinosaur tissues look like.
Oh, yes. We evolutionists are well aware of this finding. The only instance so far, but now that one has been found the search is on. No soft tissue had ever before been seen in such fossils, though some did look. It's quite exciting and stirs hope that it might be possible, in a few rare instances, to actually get our hands on dinosaur DNA. And believe me, all of us would like that to happen. In this sample no DNA was present, and due to its great age hope in this regard is currently quite slim, but one can hope.
 
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Aug 25, 2013
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Cycel,
And remember back then, ship weren't that big as the ones of today, like the Titanic, it's were the biggest of those times as well, but most huge than the ones of the ancients. But now we has even more bigger ships than the Titanic.
I don't buy and neither should you.
 
May 15, 2013
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I don't buy and neither should you.

The Biologist in the video from the site that I had posted says that the giant squid that they have film was big as an house; and back then, ship weren't that big at all.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Your knowledge still is meager Cycel. Yes, I did. What is it exactly that you think you have right? That there is no God? You couldn't be more wrong about that. As for your grasp of ancient Hebrew, it's obvious that it's sorely lacking too.

Obviously you prefer to cling to young earth creationism as you believe it comports best with the false assertion you are making that biblical creationism is nothing more than mythology so I'll continue to educate you to the contrary for you need the truth and the facts even when you've set your will against them.

Certainly God could have chosen any time scale and created the necessary laws and dimensions to support it; however, He chose the time scale we observe to perform His creative work. As ancient Hebrew scholars attest, Hebrew allows for more than one literal possibility. The word translated "day" in Genesis 1 (e.g. yom) has four different literal definitions:

(1) a portion of the daylight hours, (2) all of the daylight portion of a 24-hour day, (3) a 24-hour day, and (4) a long but finite time period.

You see, unlike English or modern Hebrew, biblical Hebrew had no other word for a finite era or epoch. As Professor Nathan Aviezer of Bar-Ilan University in Israel explains (Professor of physics and scholar of ancient Hebrew), this is consistent with the way early Talmud scholars approached Genesis 1. He states, “A statement must be made at the outset about biblical chronology of the six days of creation. Any attempt to correlate the biblical text with scientific knowledge must necessarily understand the term ‘day’ to mean a phase or a period in the development of the world, rather than a time interval of twenty-four hours...”

The reason why I suggested the book I did is that on pages 127-162 the PhD astronomer and astrophysicist gives a thorough analysis of the biblical, theological, and scientific evidence for long creation days and discusses from an astronomical and astrophysics point of view why God would have taken so long in the creation process.

As ancient Hebrew scholar Gleason L. Archer states in the Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties, pages 60-61, Baker 1982:

“There were six major stages in this work of formation, and these stages are represented by successive days of a week. In this connection it is important to observe that none of the six creative days bears a definite article in the Hebrew text; the translations 'the first day,' 'the second day,' etc., are in error.

The Hebrew says, 'And the evening took place, and the morning took place, day one' (1:5). Hebrew expresses 'the first day' by hayyom harison, but this text says simply yom ehad (day one). Again, in v.8 we read not hayyom hasseni ('the second day') but yom seni ('a second day').

In Hebrew prose of this genre, the definite article was generally used where the noun was intended to be definite; only in poetic style could it be omitted. The same is true with the rest of the six days; they all lack the definite article. Thus they are well adapted to a sequential pattern, rather than to strictly delimited units of time.”

In the quote above, the first two italicized letters ha of words like harison indicate the Hebrew prefix “heh” meaning “the.” And please note that Gleason Archer was so respected with respect to ancient Hebrew that he was one of a handful of scholars that Strong would correct their Hebrew concordance on behalf of.

You're wrong Cycel. You're wrong about this, about a great many things, and they include your belief in the non-existence of God.

As Norman Geisler states in the 'Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics', page 271, Zondervan 1999:

“Numbered days need not be solar. Neither is there a rule of Hebrew language demanding that all numbered days in a series refer to twenty-four-hour days. Even if there were no exceptions in the Old Testament, it would not mean that 'day' in Genesis 1 could not refer to more than one twenty-four-hour period. But there are other examples in the Old Testament. Hosea 6:1-2, for example. Clearly the prophet is not speaking of solar 'days' but of longer periods in the future. Yet he numbers the days in series.”

I can get very technical with you to the nth degree on this point if it becomes necessary; however, as you can already plainly see very good and well respected bible scholars trained in ancient Hebrew rebut the false assertion.
 
Jun 5, 2014
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I had posted in another post about an certain scientist that is in the area of genetic engineering has said that carbon dating can only goes back so many thousands of years, and they has found in some fossil of bones that has a lot of amount of C-14 that proves that dinosaurs aren't that old as they said, because the claim of them existing be over millions of years, that there shouldn't be any carbon 14 left, but they found a huge amount and on some they'd found soft tissue.

<strong>[video=youtube_share;udkQwW6aLik]http://youtu.be/udkQwW6aLik[/video]
What did you think of the statement in this video you posted to support your position that humans existed 50,000 years ago? The statement is in the portion about DNA testing after carbon testing where it says that humans began to migrate from Africa 50,000 years ago.

Either this video you posted to support your position is erroneous or the YEC claim that humans and dinosaurs were both created around 6,000 years ago is erroneous.

Please explain this glaring discrepancy.
 
May 15, 2013
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What did you think of the statement in this video you posted to support your position that humans existed 50,000 years ago? The statement is in the portion about DNA testing after carbon testing where it says that humans began to migrate from Africa 50,000 years ago.

Either this video you posted to support your position is erroneous or the YEC claim that humans and dinosaurs were both created around 6,000 years ago is erroneous.

Please explain this glaring discrepancy.
I only believe that the word of God is the only thing that is written in stone, that never changes, but anything else is not. So what is the purpose of using carbon dating and there is something else that is inside of the bones that can tell you how old it is. But then carbon dating results says that there shouldn't be any life still left in it and that is why scientist never did that test, because they believed that it will be a waste of time, and destroying an artifact for nothing, which proves that they themselves doesn't trust their doctrine, and that is why a certain scientist went on a did the test.
 
Oct 24, 2014
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I had become an atheist by grade five. I can remember a class discussion in which another student announced that he did not believe in God. The revelation shocked me. You see I thought, naively as it turns out, that I was the only atheist in the world. Everyone I knew believed in God, and specifically believed God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. I did not become an atheist through the actions of other atheists.

The problem with Genesis is that it is an Iron Age creation account. It has no scientific basis. When you teach children to believe an ancient mythology of the world, and they grow up and learn otherwise, it shakes their belief. Teach them instead that God did something more wonderful than make the universe, he made the universe make itself, and they might just keep God in their hearts. A universe that makes itself is still a universe that can have God as its foundation.
I excel in all things scientific, and have never had a conflict with anything I've ever read in Genesis. If I DID though, the problem would be with imperfect scientists' conclusions. For the wisdom of God and His perfection is so far beyond the ability of men to fathom, that their opinion is quite incomplete and altogether moot. As I posted earlier, an "old earth" is obvious, and evolution is easily disproven through simple scientific methods. The only problem is the superstitious illogical minds who say that a "day" in the Bible is 24 hours, when we know it is often used to cover thousands of years time. So just read the Bible, and believe what it is saying, and adjust belief according to evidence and truth. That makes everything perfectly clear. And the ultimate truth is that Jesus Christ is died for our sins and was raised from the dead after three days, and now comes into our hearts by His Holy Spirit, saving us into eternal Life. Woohoo thank you Jesus!
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
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I excel in all things scientific, and have never had a conflict with anything I've ever read in Genesis. If I DID though, the problem would be with imperfect scientists' conclusions. For the wisdom of God and His perfection is so far beyond the ability of men to fathom, that their opinion is quite incomplete and altogether moot. As I posted earlier, an "old earth" is obvious, and evolution is easily disproven through simple scientific methods. The only problem is the superstitious illogical minds who say that a "day" in the Bible is 24 hours, when we know it is often used to cover thousands of years time. So just read the Bible, and believe what it is saying, and adjust belief according to evidence and truth. That makes everything perfectly clear. And the ultimate truth is that Jesus Christ is died for our sins and was raised from the dead after three days, and now comes into our hearts by His Holy Spirit, saving us into eternal Life. Woohoo thank you Jesus!
I don't know why I come back and read this thread. I guess I have a little time to waste. Your last point is the only important thing that has come from this discussion. Praise God for the blessing of his Son who was willing to give His life for us to have eternal life.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
well=while... a typo.
 
C

Calminian

Guest
First of all, what you're looking at is on it's belly with it's legs close to its sides. Those are not characteristics of dinosaurs.
Pictures are not always perfect. Just look at all the fallacious drawings of Lucy (here's what she really looked like, BTW). But this sure looks like a dinosaur to me. The question then becomes, how did the artist come up with such a depiction? Just lucky?
 
C

Calminian

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...Whatever this creature is, you need more evidence than just a stone carving. And if you try to pinpoint what kind of dinosaur it's supposed to be, you need to make sure it's a dinosaur that was in Cambodia.
Percepi, drawings of animals are evidence. You believe (via blind faith) that men and dinosaurs are prehistoric, even though the historic evidence documents them. That's not looking for evidence, that ignoring evidence.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

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The first distinction is made between the laws of nature (e.g. natural law) and the laws of science (e.g. laws of physics, chemistry, biology, etc...). The latter are the result of man's scientific endeavor while the former have existed, necessarily, from the beginning of the universe.

Our scientific understanding is, of course, expressed in terms of scientific laws, but these only reflect the pre-existence of the laws of nature which have governed the cosmos from its inception.

Edgar Andrews explained it like this:

"The laws of nature constitute unchanging reality whereas the laws of science are our frequently imperfect attempts to describe reality. It is the business of science to discover laws that describe, more or less accurately, how the universe works. Such discoveries not only deepen our understanding of the cosmos but can often be exploited for man's benefit in what we call 'technology'.

But neither science nor technology would be possible without the unchanging substratum of natural law - the ultimate physical reality that science strives to probe and understand.

As we have seen, Einstein and other leading scientists have stressed this difference pointing out that beneath our scientific descriptions of the universe there may well lie 'realities' that we do not (and perhaps cannot) comprehend. And it is possible, even inevitable, that sometimes science's laws and models lead us away from these realities rather than towards them.

The longheld belief that light propagated through an omnipresent medium called the 'ether' is a historical example. This idea was genuinely 'scientific', being based on the fact that waves generally occur in some medium - ripples on a pond propagate in water and sound waves propagate through air (or some other fluid or solid medium). But until it was proven wrong, this perfectly reasonable scientific model stood in the way of a true understanding of electromagnetic fields and radiation. Some modern speculations may prove equally false and equally misleading.

Science proposes a huge variety of laws, principles and models... A failure to distinguish between the laws of nature and the laws of science lies behind the superiority that atheists often claim for science over theology. Science, they say, unlike theology, is open to change. Its errors can be corrected, its theories refined and its explanatory power continually expanded. All this is true, but it only reflects the fact that the laws of science are an imperfect representation of the changeless reality and perfection of natural law.

Similarly, human theology is a search after the changeless truth about God and is notoriously subject to error, revision and refinement. But the revealed realities concerning God, when properly understood, are no more fallible or changeable than the underlying laws of nature that science seeks to uncover (indeed, there is a close connection between the two).

All that said, the laws of science that we establish by practising science represent, at any time, our best approximations to the underlying realities of nature."

I would add that historically sometimes the slightest error or gap in a scientific theory has been its undoing. Yet the leading scientists of the day asserted the theory was as accurate as the earth orbits the sun. They were wrong.

For example, the Newtonian universe had a small gap. There was a time when Newtonian physics explained almost every observed fact about the world, however, the orbital cycle of mercury deviated slightly from the predictions of Newton.

Following the behavior of most of today's atheists, this would amount to nothing more than an annoying gap to be quickly filled in so as to declare Newtonian cosmology the correct view of the universe. They would supress all other views and teach as irrefutable fact a Newtonian cosmology. All students would be taught this irrefutable fact and be required to align with it, at least in their assigments, or risk very real educational and career-related consequences. They would enforce their position that Newtonian physics be maintained and taught as the only valid view and mock anyone who asserted otherwise.

[^ Obviously that is NOT science].

But along came Einstein anyways, advancing his theory of relativity, and suddenly the orbital deviation of Mercury was accounted for. Predictably, instead of affirming that this was quite an accomplishment and Einstein's theory should be given serious attention: they strongly resisted him.

Eventually; however, the truth could no longer be denied and a pure Newtonian cosmology was abandoned. The gap was an amazing clue that the status quo of science was deeply flawed in its perception of reality and Einstein was brilliant and fortunate enough to discover the correct scientific understanding regarding it.

And guess what? Despite strong validation through scientific testing, there may be gaps in Einstein's theory of relativity... lol.



I excel in all things scientific, and have never had a conflict with anything I've ever read in Genesis./QUOTE]
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Lucy is a hominid member of Australopithecus, A. anamensis, (dated between 4.2 million and 3.8 million years ago from fossils recovered near Lake Turkana, Kenya) and nearly 40 percent complete with much of the postcranial skeleton intact.

Read: Reasons To Believe : From Whence Do We Come? Part 1 of 2 and Reasons To Believe : From Whence Do We Come? Part 2 (of 2)


Pictures are not always perfect. Just look at all the fallacious drawings of Lucy (here's what she really looked like, BTW). But this sure looks like a dinosaur to me. The question then becomes, how did the artist come up with such a depiction? Just lucky?
 
C

Calminian

Guest
I would like to know the identity of this "certain scientist". Also, can you link to a reputable scientific source that confirms the carbon 14 levels in this so-called dinosaur bone; and the bone is of what animal?

When submitting information that would overturn our understanding you need to provide corroborating details, in a convincing way.
Cycel, this debate with soft tissues is gone into depth on this radio show.

Rsr's Annual Soft Tissue Show: The Deniers

If you're really looking for answers, I suggest tuning in and getting up to date. It's an amazing turn of events, and the evidence is on the creationists side.

And BTW, have you made your case for solid dome cosmology yet on the other thread? I corrected your hebrew per your last argument, but hadn't seen you around. The link is on a past PM, if you need it.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
After death, dinosaur remains were typically destroyed via scavenging and decomposition with some undergoing a process of fossilization in which hard materials are mineralized.

In this instance, the soft tissue was preserved through dehydration and sealed from the presence of water and further decomposition. Contrary to the claims of young earth creationists; however, the tissue is obviously not fresh.

As Deem states:

"Fresh blood vessels and connective tissue are nearly transparent (except the blood cells themselves), which is why the ostrich tissue had to be chemically stained to produce the pictures used in the article. Another difference between the ostrich tissue and T. rex material was the requirement to use collagenase to release blood vessels from ostrich bone matrix.

This fact indicates that much of the collagen from the T. rex sample was already degraded. The primary author indicated that the bones have a distinct odor, characteristic of "embalming fluids." Therefore, it is possible that the bones landed in some chemical stew that preserved the soft tissue inside from decomposition. For example, peat bogs produce chemicals that have preserved human bodies for thousands of years. It is likely that some similar rare process has preserved the soft tissue [in this case]."


Of course the die-hard evolutionists will cry "Creationist site! Invalid! Can't be science."
 
C

Calminian

Guest
Lucy is a hominid member of Australopithecus, A. anamensis, (dated between 4.2 million and 3.8 million years ago from fossils recovered near Lake Turkana, Kenya) and nearly 40 percent complete with much of the postcranial skeleton intact.....
Here's a great video clip of how they altered Lucy's hip with a power saw.

[video=youtube;EeO0JlZsXio]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeO0JlZsXio[/video]

Seriously this is priceless, especially the audience laughter. But really, evolution is quite funny when you step back and realize what people are wiling to believe to validate their religious beliefs.

Even funnier is the idea that somehow a deer stepped on Lucy's hip bone and miraculously caused it to fit perfectly just like a human hip bone. I'm not making this up. This perfect transformation of lucy's hip from ape to human was caused by a deer. We needed a power saw to fix it, but the deer only needed his hoof.

All that aside all the evidence we have from Lucy's skeleton points to her being an ape. She was a knuckle walker in fact. AoK, even you would have to ask, why would she have longer arms and knuckle walking hands if she human upright hips?

My friend, you've been sucked into a fairytale. Lucy was an ape, just as she's displayed at the creation museum.
 
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Calminian

Guest
.... As I posted earlier, an "old earth" is obvious..... The only problem is the superstitious illogical minds who say that a "day" in the Bible is 24 hours, when we know it is often used to cover thousands of years time. ...
But this is not an argument. So what if yom can be used in other ways. The english word day can also. But you can't just take any meaning from a word's semantic range and use it whenever you like. Context gives us specific meanings that can't be altered. Check out this english sentence.

In my grandfather's day, he used to walk every day from school barely making it more before the day hours ended.

Here there are 3 distinct uses the the word day, and none of them can be altered to mean anything else. Their context locks them into their meaning. I can't simply change one of their meanings based on the simple fact that day has a range of meanings and uses. Language just doesn't work like that.

In the Bible, we see in Exodus 20 exactly how Moses interpreted the days of Genesis.

Ex. 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbatha to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work....11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth,a the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day....

It is obvious that Moses believed the creation days were ordinary days just like the work week days. We also see the context of evening and morning, which further locks in the meaning of yom here.

Jesus also confirmed this when he talked about Adam and Eve being made from the beginning of creation, not toward the end of creation as old earth models suggest.

Mark 10:6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’

I think what's happening here is, you're comfortable rejecting the science of evolution, but not as comfortable parting with Big Bang cosmology, and so you're preferring it over scripture. I suggest you trust the Bible, even before you're able to reconcile everything scientifically. God's Word is proven and test.
 
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Dec 18, 2013
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One Thing concerns me about these carvings and pictures of dinosaurs...

We don't really know what dinosaurs fully look like.. We can make a guess based on the bones and structures etc but we'll never know exactly.

Isn't it a coincidence that these carvings and pictures match up with exactly what we think they look like?

Same as when people describe alien encounters they always describe the aliens looking exactly the way 50s comic books popularised them.
This is a true statement indeed, though I'd say the likeliness isn't in the depiction itself. For all depictions even those done by the utmost skilled painters of the Renaissance and even into the modern era indeed no matter how accurate the artist is attempting to make it, there is always a flaw somehow thus it is imperfect.

The crux of the fact is it's depicted in evidence known to be man-made, and thus in history plus it is found in so many cultures through vast time periods and location and even sheer fact it is mentioned at all and by so many, even in the Bible..