What of the dinosaurs?

[Cycel]

The dinosaurs lived millions and millions of years ago, long before apes appeared. Praise Jesus!

Absolutely, they died out about 65 million years ago. Thank heavens? Well, there is some question as to whether we would be here if they still were.

I do think that the little matter of when they lived is important. What people believe in this regard seems to speak to their willingness to disregard science, and that can't be a good thing.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

I agree. I can't believe that I have sit here and read this whole thread. If as much energy spent on arguing creationism were spent on the obeying Matthew 28:19-20, we would have a growing Christian population rather than a shrinking one. MHO.

Does anyone have an idea of how many people have abandoned Christ because of the damage done to them by atheists convincing them Genesis was not truth? Accepting that, the next challenge is typically how can you trust any other part of the Bible if Genesis is used as a basis for doctrine? That would include King David, Jesus, Paul, Peter.....

The default action has been to reluctantly agree with evolutionists and go deeper into naturalism, our scientists being caught up in scientism.

Will we Christians accept such losses of disciples, moving on to the next candidate without adequately teaching the ones already reached? We get them saved then leave them to the wolves? Such losses are entirely based on ignorance and neglect. While I agree it isn't productive to specialize in the creation-evolution debate exclusively discussing the sciences, I do believe a wise Christian can help prevent some the minds of babes in Christ and even the mature of the faith of Christ rom being swallowed by atheists who abound around the debate, and head off others who are yet to choose either way or no way at all.

 

[Bride]

Does anyone have an idea of how many people have abandoned Christ because of the damage done to them by atheists convincing them Genesis was not truth? Accepting that, the next challenge is typically how can you trust any other part of the Bible if Genesis is used as a basis for doctrine? That would include King David, Jesus, Paul, Peter.....

The default action has been to reluctantly agree with evolutionists and go deeper into naturalism, our scientists being caught up in scientism.

Will we Christians accept such losses of disciples, moving on to the next candidate without adequately teaching the ones already reached? We get them saved then leave them to the wolves? Such losses are entirely based on ignorance and neglect. While I agree it isn't productive to specialize in the creation-evolution debate exclusively discussing the sciences, I do believe a wise Christian can help prevent some the minds of babes in Christ and even the mature of the faith of Christ rom being swallowed by atheists who abound around the debate, and head off others who are yet to choose either way or no way at all.

Not a one.
That "splinter group" who thinks that a day of creation is 24 hours, and that creation was 7 days of those, are to blame for this nonsense. They don't represent Jesus, they represent one side of a silly argument that means nothing to those who are interested in being filled with the Holy Spirit of Christ and overcoming temptation sin and death. Those are two entirely separate "gospels" from where I see things quite clearly.

 

[4enlightment]

I don't believe you responded to anything I said.

On the matter of the sauropod-like creatures on the Egyptian seal, I believe I've solved the matter. They are stylized lions, not dinosaurs. You will see the same motif on the pottery depicted below, but in much finer detail.

Now, they no longer look like dinosaurs. Note that the Egyptians are known for creating fanciful creatures and animal-human gods. My question here is: Why don't creation web sites show such images as this piece of pottery? Answer: It would undermine their claim that the other image is that of a dinosaur.

Yes, the Sphinx has the head of a man, and the body of an lion. The Egyptians had always used different body parts of certain animals that they are familiar with as for symbolic meanings like we has on our money.

Here's an video about the mythical beast.

<strong>[video]http://www.ted.com/talks/edith_widder_how_we_found_the_giant_squid?language =en[/video]

 

[4enlightment]

Cycel,
And remember back then, ship weren't that big as the ones of today, like the Titanic, it's were the biggest of those times as well, but most huge than the ones of the ancients. But now we has even more bigger ships than the Titanic.

 

[Cycel]

Does anyone have an idea of how many people have abandoned Christ because of the damage done to them by atheists convincing them Genesis was not truth?

I had become an atheist by grade five. I can remember a class discussion in which another student announced that he did not believe in God. The revelation shocked me. You see I thought, naively as it turns out, that I was the only atheist in the world. Everyone I knew believed in God, and specifically believed God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. I did not become an atheist through the actions of other atheists.

The problem with Genesis is that it is an Iron Age creation account. It has no scientific basis. When you teach children to believe an ancient mythology of the world, and they grow up and learn otherwise, it shakes their belief. Teach them instead that God did something more wonderful than make the universe, he made the universe make itself, and they might just keep God in their hearts. A universe that makes itself is still a universe that can have God as its foundation.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Absolutely, they died out about 65 million years ago. Thank heavens? Well, there is some question as to whether we would be here if they still were.

I do think that the little matter of when they lived is important. What people believe in this regard seems to speak to their willingness to disregard science, and that can't be a good thing.

OK, a little science facts then. By far most dinosaurs were herbivores. Less than 10% of dinosaur species ate meat, and of the supposed carnivores many were actually omnivorous, having to mostly rely upon vegetation due to the still difficult job of carnivores bringing down animal prey in sufficient quantities to stay alive. Of the carnivores that might have affected a local human population, again the fossil record doesn't have supposedly vicious man exterminators like T. Rex and the likes living around Bible lands in any period of earth's history, or around any significant human choice of places to live.

If those dinosaurs had survived to be managed like domestic cattle in the jungles of S. America instead of clear-cutting them, there would be an abundance of meat for a lot of people. Dinoburgers!

Can you demonstrate that a scientist properly using all accepted forms of radioactive dating methods designed for dealing with old ages would consistently establish that 65 million year claim? Before getting too serious about that, some igneous rocks formed in the last hundred years have tested to be that old. Built into the evolutionist's favorite test models used to arrive at such ages are presumptions of such ages. The presumptions are inserted into the formulas. Until recently scientists were not allowed by the science community to bias such things so severely. That changed with Darwin. Linnaeus would be ashamed of Darwin and all his followers. But today a growing number of scientists are breaking free of those hindrances to honest data analysis.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

I had become an atheist by grade five. I can remember a class discussion in which another student announced that he did not believe in God. The revelation shocked me. You see I thought, naively as it turns out, that I was the only atheist in the world. Everyone I knew believed in God, and specifically believed God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. I did not become an atheist through the actions of other atheists.

The problem with Genesis is that it is an Iron Age creation account. It has no scientific basis. When you teach children to believe an ancient mythology of the world, and they grow up and learn otherwise, it shakes their belief. Teach them instead that God did something more wonderful than make the universe, he made the universe make itself, and they might just keep God in their hearts. A universe that makes itself is still a universe that can have God as its foundation.

God didn't leave nature to develop increasing complexity of cells. It has never been demonstrated to occur. Genetic entropy dominates. There is obviously a planned end to the natural world as we know it. You "became" an atheist, like I did about that grade in school before sadly not learning from modern genetics that life on earth is very young. I am learning, but that knowledge hasn't saved me. God revealed Himself to me as an adult. Before that I beat a man up for pestering me about religion. Now I will use what I learn to help others make an informed decision for God if the Lord so directs. But it isn't God's way to convince people by knowledge. He requires responding by faith to however, and when, He makes contact.

 

[JackH]

I had posted in another post about an certain scientist that is in the area of genetic engineering has said that carbon dating can only goes back so many thousands of years, and they has found in some fossil of bones that has a lot of amount of C-14 that proves that dinosaurs aren't that old as they said, because the claim of them existing be over millions of years, that there shouldn't be any carbon 14 left, but they found a huge amount and on some they'd found soft tissue.

<strong>[video=youtube_share;udkQwW6aLik]http://youtu.be/udkQwW6aLik[/video]

Thank you.

Your very own video totally supports old earth creationism.

Your very own video indicates that dinosaur bones are millions of years old if carbon dating is utilized properly, and debunks a young earth creationist who tries to peddle 20,000-year-old dinosaur bones.

This is an excellent video.

Thank you again.

 

[JackH]

Can you demonstrate that a scientist properly using all accepted forms of radioactive dating methods designed for dealing with old ages would consistently establish that 65 million year claim? Before getting too serious about that, some igneous rocks formed in the last hundred years have tested to be that old

4enlightment's video should set you straight on that.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Just because you had already become deceived by age five about the existence of God doesn't make any of your assertions true.

Obviously, the Genesis account was written in ancient Hebrew not modern English and the word for day (e.g. yom) has a wide variety of meanings beyond a 24-hour solar period. Specifically, in the Genesis account with respect to creation days it's speaking of long epochs that certainly DOES correlate with science which means that you are guilty of misrepresenting biblical creation presently just as the "young earth" parents of the children you attended grade school did.

One CAN teach an accurate biblical exegesis of creation that correlates with science which strengthens one's Christian belief.

One CAN keep God in their heart whether or not they accurately understand creation and/or science simply because God really exists.

Not everyone tumbled into the error you have and not everyone chooses to remain in it as you do.

Blain, on the question of days I recommend this resource as an introduction:

I had become an atheist by grade five. I can remember a class discussion in which another student announced that he did not believe in God. The revelation shocked me. You see I thought, naively as it turns out, that I was the only atheist in the world. Everyone I knew believed in God, and specifically believed God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. I did not become an atheist through the actions of other atheists.

The problem with Genesis is that it is an Iron Age creation account. It has no scientific basis. When you teach children to believe an ancient mythology of the world, and they grow up and learn otherwise, it shakes their belief. Teach them instead that God did something more wonderful than make the universe, he made the universe make itself, and they might just keep God in their hearts. A universe that makes itself is still a universe that can have God as its foundation.

 

[4enlightment]

The dinosaurs lived millions and millions of years ago, long before apes appeared. Praise Jesus!

Is there anything that God cannot do? I can see people are laughing about the ones that believe that God is able to create the world in six days. since Moses had written the books of Genesis, and Moses believe that God created the world in six days, and if no one believe that, then how can they believe someone that has risen from the grave?

13 Then the Lord said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh and say, ‘Will I really have a child, now that I am old?’ 14 Is anything too hard for the Lord? I will return to you at the appointed time next year, and Sarah will have a son.”

15 Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, “I did not laugh.”

But he said, “Yes, you did laugh.”

Matthew 9:28 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied.

John 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

 

[4enlightment]

Thank you.

Your very own video totally supports old earth creationism.

Your very own video indicates that dinosaur bones are millions of years old if carbon dating is utilized properly, and debunks a young earth creationist who tries to peddle 20,000-year-old dinosaur bones.

This is an excellent video.

Thank you again.

But if you had watched the other video about Bruce Malone, and which he stated that they have found enough C14 in some of the fossils that they had examined that says that the creature had died a few thousand years ago, not over millions of years ago.

 

[JackH]

But if you had watched the other video about Bruce Malone, and which he stated that they have found enough C14 in some of the fossils that they had examined that says that the creature had died a few thousand years ago, not over millions of years ago.

Bruce Malone isn't a scientist. He has a young earth creationist website with the same spiel as Answers in Genesis, Institute for Creation Research, et al.

Hey, you posted these videos, not me. No doubt you scrutinized them closely for veracity.

So the bones Bruce Malone is talking about are the same dinosaur bones debunked as being a youth earth creationist scam in the other video you posted?

Or is this a separate young earth creationist scam?

 

[4enlightment]

Bruce Malone isn't a scientist. He has a young earth creationist website with the same spiel as Answers in Genesis, Institute for Creation Research, et al.

Hey, you posted these videos, not me. No doubt you scrutinized them closely for veracity.

So the bones Bruce Malone is talking about are the same dinosaur bones debunked as being a youth earth creationist scam in the other video you posted?

Or is this a separate young earth creationist scam?

[h=1]Dinosaur Shocker[/h][h=2]Probing a 68-million-year-old T. rex, Mary Schweitzer stumbled upon astonishing signs of life that may radically change our view of the ancient beasts[/h]


Read more: History, Travel, Arts, Science, People, Places | Smithsonian
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

 

[JackH]

Dinosaur Shocker

Probing a 68-million-year-old T. rex, Mary Schweitzer stumbled upon astonishing signs of life that may radically change our view of the ancient beasts




Read more: History, Travel, Arts, Science, People, Places | Smithsonian
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

That article is from 2006.

Finish the story.

 

[4enlightment]

That article is from 2006.

Finish the story.

Scientist had to use carbon dating to find how old a certain thing is, it is because a certain period of time, there shouldn't be any signs of life at all. And so how come there is living tissues are left?

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Just because you had already become deceived by age five about the existence of God doesn't make any of your assertions true.

Obviously, the Genesis account was written in ancient Hebrew not modern English and the word for day (e.g. yom) has a wide variety of meanings beyond a 24-hour solar period. Specifically, in the Genesis account with respect to creation days it's speaking of long epochs that certainly DOES correlate with science which means that you are guilty of misrepresenting biblical creation presently just as the "young earth" parents of the children you attended grade school did.

One CAN teach an accurate biblical exegesis of creation that correlates with science which strengthens one's Christian belief.

I doubt an average Christian could go public with biblical exegesis that will doubtless conflict with most proper biblical exegesis. Christian doctrine was built upon much of Genesis as literally known. The transliterated word ʿereb from the Hebrew עֶרֶב‎ (yom) is not used elsewhere in Genesis or the Bible at all to represent 25 hours, weeks of days, hundreds, thousands, or millions of years. It describes the typical day and night making up one day, taking into account the context. The Hebrew could be used in a total of 5 ways up to one year, while English extends that usage to 14 ways.

If I accepted your take on the real definition of the day, each of those days consisted of an epoh of daylight, followed by an epoch of darkness (night). The day and night were divided, and we know half could not be less than the other half. Proper exegesis doesn't allow both possibilities. It is defying logic, science, and common sense. Life as we know it could not have survived such a day, the accumulating heat of unbroken daylight killing off all surface life within a week of our days. No plants would grow at night exhibiting photosynthesis. That brings up how the animal kingdom existed for epochs without plants to eat. If al lthey had to feed on was themselves, they would have become exinct very shortly.

The same author Moses wrote Exodus commanding the people to keep the seventh day sabbath on the obvious basis of a 24 hour day. It was the period God rested on the seventh day of creation. Sabbath did not involve epochs. The same word and matching context is used in both events. A day has been a day since the first day.

The genealogy of Adam is recorded in terms of years as we know them, not epochs per generation, beginning with first son Cain. Real names and their ages add up to fit the whole of the Bible. If all that could be fabrication then Jesus was highly deceived. Of course no person to whom God has revealed himself could entertain that. Deciding contrary to the whole of witnesses in the Bible that commented on this is a sign of no real personal relationship with Christ. A typical Christian that faces tough challenges of the Genesis account could not defend it scientifically. Most of the world's Christians have a scant knowledge of anything beyond their own town, much less technical knowledge. Most will die clutching but a faint hope in Jesus.

Think it over before teaching something to someone that could backfire horribly, their eternity on your account. Maybe a person could hold various beliefs about it strictly privately without harming another. I am convinced to stand up for as much literal message from the Bible as it allows in context. Having to shape one's doctrine upon various interpretations of plain wording seems like a formula for eventual eternal failure. I will stick with God's word, not conclusions of mostly atheists.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Of course the die-hard evolutionists will cry "Creationist site! Invalid! Can't be science."

But it might be wise for the Christian having a casual interest in enough fact to settle this issue and remain on friendly terms with the book of Genesis and any crowd of Bible skeptics, to take a close look at the very friendly Serving and Sharing: Cory Collins: Soft Tissue Found in Dinosaur Bone? Uh-Oh!

Those are from inside a supposedly multimillion year old dinosaur fossil bone. From there follow some links to more authoritative sources, seeing for yourself what dinosaur tissues look like.

 

[Cycel]

Just because you had already become deceived by age five about the existence of God doesn't make any of your assertions true.

LOL! No, no. That's grade five, not age five! I wasn't that precocious.

Trust me, at the age of ten my level of knowledge was pretty meagre. Did you catch the part where I said I was so naive I actually thought I was the only individual on Earth who didn't believe in God? I did not know the word 'atheist' at that time. I didn't know any of the things I know now, but contrary to the popular wisdom around here, I did have one thing right.

Obviously, the Genesis account was written in ancient Hebrew not modern English...

And the bulk of it was probably conceived in the Bronze Age, although the experts tell us the final redaction took place about 586 BC, putting the final work firmly in the Iron Age.

... and the word for day (e.g. yom) has a wide variety of meanings beyond a 24-hour solar period.

But not in this case. "And evening came and morning came, a second day." These are clearly 24 hour days. The Young Earth Creationists are absolutely correct.

Specifically, in the Genesis account with respect to creation days it's speaking of long epochs that certainly DOES correlate with science...

I've heard the claim, but you will have to explain it to me. I don't see that the days, or epochs, line up with science at all.

... which means that you are guilty of misrepresenting biblical creation presently just as the "young earth" parents of the children you attended grade school did.

I am guilty only if I am wrong, but I am convinced I am right. You are guilty, I think, of altering the meaning of the text of Genesis to better suit a modern understanding of the world.

What you don't understand is what the text is actually saying. The reason God could make the entire universe in only six days is that the writers of Genesis had a very different cosmological view than what you and I do. The universe for them was the Earth. God made the dome of the sky, the firmament, and placed the Sun, Moon, and stars within it. The stars were simply lights in the sky, and sometimes they fell to Earth, as stated in the Book of Revelation. The universe could be made in six days because the Earth was universe. There was nothing else. There were no other worlds, no star systems, no galaxies, no super clusters. There was only Earth. God didn't need epochs to get the work done.

One CAN keep God in their heart whether or not they accurately understand creation and/or science simply because God really exists.

Well, to you he exists. I have no sense of that at all. Peter Hitchens came to God out of fear of Hell. Francis Collins came to God out of a sense of wonderment of nature. People generally have no trouble believing in deities of all sorts. It's always been that way. And they believe in these deities irrespective of whether or not they exist. So, believing God exists cannot be taken as evidence that God exists – if that is what you are saying.

I have to tell you, before you get the wrong impression, that I have never argued the existence of God with anyone who accepts evolution. It is not my intention to disprove God, despite how this must look. What's happening here is that I am getting dragged into defending myself. You did, after all, tell met that I was deceived and claimed none of my assertions were true. I did not claim to have evidence that there is no God. I only stated that by grade five I had already become an atheist; and to be honest I am not exactly sure how that happened, though I have an idea.

I have a question for you. As a thought experiment, if I were to persuade you that the Genesis creation account is actually a Bronze Age/Iron Age myth, how would that affect your perception of God? You see, I think that's what may have turned me into an atheist.