What parts of Torah can we still keep today?

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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#81
Truly this is not our home, is it?
I agree that truly this is not our home, but I don't understand why you wrote that as a reply.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#82
O look another law thread...so crisp...so shiny...so new...wonder what scriptures will be used? Who's head gets chopped off....I wonder if they will agree to dis agreee............nnnnoooope.

(Potter looks closer).....darn just another rerun.:(
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#83
https://therefinersfire.org/torah_rules1.htm

This is a copy and paste, however I am in full agreement.

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[TD="bgcolor: #FBECE9"]Many people have written to The Refiner's Fire to ask about the parts of Torah that apply to them today, and they are especially curious as to whether "being Torah observant" means they have to keep all "613" original commands.[/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]YHWH (Yahweh) gave us many rules/commands/"laws" that can be found scattered throughout the Torah, the first five Books of the Bible, which contains His Divine Instructions in Righteousness. We must understand, however, that the "numbering" of the original commandments was done by man, not by YHWH (Yahweh) Himself, which means there is no reason to worry about trying to keep "all 613 commands." Not to mention that most of those "613" commands were directed at the cohens (priests) of the day; some were only for men; some only for women, and some were only for a certain timeframe.
But some were meant to last FOREVER - and those are the ones that believers must pay attention to.
While YHWH eventually recorded ten in stone, we must remember, these ten are just part of the larger picture taken from YHWH's Torah which He said would stand forever. Many Christians balk at this idea because they are under the erroneous impression that they don't even have to bother even keeping the TEN Commandments anymore (let alone the "613"); but, rather, just two - and they cite the following as "proof":
Matthew 22: 36. "Teacher, which Commandment in Torah is the greatest?" 37. And Y'shua said to him, that "You should love Master YHWH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might and with all your mind." 38. This is the first and the greatest Commandment. 39. And the second is like it. That "You should love your neighbor as yourself." 40. On these two commandments hang Torah and the prophets. (Aramaic English New Testament)
We would ask those who insist they only need to keep two commandments to please re-read verse 40 with the help of the Ruach haKodesh (Holy Spirit). Does verse 40 imply that all of God's original instructions have been done away with? NO! The Torah and the Prophets HANG/ARE DEPENDENT ON those two commands! There's more to it than just "loving God and loving your neighbor![/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #E6E8D8"]Anybody who proclaims to love God must begin to realize there is more to God than what is taught in Christian churches. They should recognize that nobody including Yeshua (whom Christians call "Jesus") had the right to negate any of the Father's original commands or to insist that His Divine Instructions to mankind are a curse. Without Torah, we would have NO blueprint for holy living (1 John 3:4)! (You can read on this page exactly what Yeshua came to do.)
The verse below from Numbers shows that EVERYONE who accepts the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is to be Torah observant:
Numbers 15: 13 "'Everyone who is native-born must do these things in this way when he brings an offering made by fire as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 14 For the generations to come, whenever an alien or anyone else living among you presents an offering made by fire as an aroma pleasing to the LORD, he must do exactly as you do. 15 The community is to have the same rules for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the LORD: 16 The same laws and regulations will apply both to you and to the alien living among you.'"
The "aliens" included anyone who wasn't a Torah observant "Hebrew" (a word which means "to cross over"...When Abram obeyed YHWH in Genesis 12, he "crossed over" both spiritually and physically when he left his homeland). "Aliens" include anyone who is "grafted-in" through the blood of Messiah Yeshua. Yeshua Himself was Torah observant - as were all of His Apostles and disciples - yet somehow Christians have decided that "the law is a curse"; that Gentiles don't have to bother with Torah, and that God treats His adopted children differently from His natural ones....
So, what parts of Torah can we still keep today? The chart below is by no means a complete list of what we are to observe today, but it will give you a good start and a lot to think about. For a complete list of the "do's" and "don'ts", please see 613 original commandments.


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The parts of Torah that apply today
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[TD="bgcolor: #F4CECA"]The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20 and 34 - which included several "forever" commandments). We need to pay attention to ALL of YHWH's Torah; but - as mentioned above - "we" cannot possibly "do" all those commands. So we DO what we can![/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]The Seventh Day Sabbath (Exodus 31:13; Exodus 31:16-17; Leviticus 23:3). God told us that the Sabbath would forever be a signbetween Him and the children of Israel (which includes every believer, grafted-in or otherwise!) In the end times (which we are in now) the seventh day Sabbath will distinguish TRUE believers from the "lukewarm" - especially when the Antichrist starts putting pressure on people to conform to his rules:
Exodus 31: 13 "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and youthroughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you."
Exodus 31: 16 "Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.'"[/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #E5FFFF"]The Biblical feasts are outlined in Leviticus 23 which states after each feast: "it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations."[/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]Keeping kosher. Yes, eating "clean" foods was a "forever" commandment. You can search the Bible through, but you will never see that command negated. Kosher Law always was, and still is, YHWH's Law. He never said pork, shellfish, etc. were food! People called it food in rebellion against God. The NT passages (which Christians like to use as proof that appear to suggest we can eat whatever we want) deal with animals God gave us to eat and whether they are ceremonially clean and can be eaten at that time. Even in Peter's vision (Acts 11), Peter would never have eaten the kosher animals that had been in contact with treife (non-kosher) animals. Peter's vision was to show that the kosher animals were no longer considered unclean because they were among the treife. This was illustrating that the Gentiles were now to be accepted! The rest of the passage in Acts 11 shows that this is the correct interpretation and what the vision was all about....
For a complete outline, See Deuteronomy 14:1-21 and Leviticus 11.[/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #E6E8D8"]Wearing tzit-zit, the "tassels" on the four corners of our garments. Today, we don't have "four-cornered" garments, but we can loop them through our belt loops or wear special shirts that have tzit-tzit attached. (Google tzit-tzit for more info.) Please see our articles ontzit-tzits and tallits.
Numbers 15: 37 ADONAI said to Moshe, 38 "Speak to the people of Isra'el (this includes women!), instructing them to make, through all their generations, tzitziyot on the corners of their garments, and to put with the tzitzit on each corner a blue thread. 39 It is to be a tzitzit for you to look at and thereby remember all of ADONAI's mitzvot and obey them, so that you won't go around wherever your own heart and eyes lead you to prostitute yourselves; 40 but it will help you remember and obey all my mitzvot and be holy for your God. 41 I am ADONAI your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt in order to be your God. I am ADONAI your God."[/TD]
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[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]Christians insist that "Jesus abolished the law" and that all one has to do today is to "believe in Jesus." Hardly anyone seems to realize that, what Yeshua attempted to "do away with" was not the Father's divine instructions, but the rabbinical, man-made "stuff". Even Paul verified this when he said: Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law. (Romans 3:31). You will find Yahweh's original commandments sprinkled throughout Torah in places like Genesis 26:2-5; Exodus 15:25-27, 16, 20:6; Leviticus 22, 26, 27; Numbers 15 and 36; and Deuteronomy 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13, 26, 27, 28, 30, 31.
God said His Torah would stand FOREVER (2 Chronicles 7:14-22), and that's why we are to do our best to try to discern His "do's" and "don't's" because they are all for good reason. Most Christians seem to think Torah was abolished, which is a major misunderstanding because Torah is God's blueprint for moral behavior! Why would that have been abolished on the cross?
Matthew 5: 17 Don't think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete. 18 Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah - not until everything that must happen has happened. 19 So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot (words/commands) and teaches others to do so will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness is far greater than that of the Torah-teachers and P'rushim, you will certainly not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Has everything happened that must happen? Have heaven and earth passed away yet? Yeshua even said He didn't come to abolish but to complete/fulfill. That did not mean "put an end to"...
Rev. 12:17 - And the dragon was enraged against the woman; and he went to make war upon the remnant of her seed who keep the Commandments of Elohim and have the testimony of Y'shua. (AENT)
Rev. 14:12 - Here is the patience of the Set Apart believers who keep the commandments of Elohim, and the faith of Y'shua. (AENT)
Some versions use "saint" as opposed to "God's people." But who exactly is a "saint"? Certainly not someone who refuses to be Torah observant! Without Torah we have no blueprint for moral, godly behavior (as is amply evident in our fallen world, including throughout the various churches.) Who are those who obey God's commandments? They are the Jews and Messianic believers. Who are those who hold to the testimony of Yeshua and remain faithful to Him? The Messianic Believers! Jews don't believe in Yeshua and Christians don't believe in being Torah observant; and therefore Christians don't adhere to the commandments/Torah - which include the keeping of the Seventh Day Sabbath and the seven feasts, and eating only "clean" foods. Both Jews and Christians are missing "the rest of the story"....
An interesting aside: Most bible versions will say: 14 How blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they have the right to eat from the Tree of Life and go through the gates into the city!
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they who do His (Master YHWH's) Mitzvot, that they may have a right to the tree of life and may enter through the gates into the city. (AENT)
Footnote: Very important! Y'shua is talking, so these are YHWH's Mitzvot (Commandments), not his. This is also the original reading in Revelation. The "wash your robes" line was substituted later, as a way to downplay the obvious pro-Torah message at the end of the NT. This is, in effect, the last speech Y'shua gives to the world. There are actually two ancient Greek witnesses that are split on the matter, and one may have arisen as a scribal error to the other between poiountes tas entolas (do his commandments) and plunontes tas stolas (wash their robes).


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I take that you do not believe that Jesus Christ was the true Messiah and that those who call upon his name shall not die but have everlasting life. This is why the Jewish (Israel) people have been cursed to go through the WHOLE tribulation by God himself.

The Ten Commandments (written by the finger of God) are still in use by any Christian or should be. The other 600+ laws were for the Israelites who at the time did not have any governmental, social or religious structure to follow. Simply look to the days prior to their Exodus from Eygpt.

The Bible tells this throughout the old and new testaments. The Bible also tells us that during the tribulations (all seven years) roughly 2/3 of the Jewish people will die. Rem, during the Third Reich only 1/3 of the Jewish population was murdered by Hitler and company.

Revelations 4 though 5 ends the Age of the Gentile and the Age of the Church. Rev. 6 begins Gods return to his People and the tribulations.

What part of the torah should we keep. The Holy Bible is one book divinely, designed and written by both God and 44 authors who have given us 66 books over 2000 years. I think we should keep it all, the whole thing.

Have a Blessed day

Blade
 
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jcha

Guest
#84
Yeah, typical HRM hatred of Christian celebrations.
Awehaw! Condemning those celebrations and traditions that hinge on pagan gods and deities. Oh the hatred of those law abiding citizens who found God's words are all we need.



Reminds me of something Jesus said, Matthew The Greatest Commandment(Deuteronomy 6:1-19; Mark 12:28-34)34And when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they themselves gathered together. 35One of them, an expert in the Law, tested Him with a question: 36“Teacher, which commandment is the greatest in the Law?”37Jesus declared, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’d 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.e 40All the Law and the Prophets depend/hang on these two commandments.”

When is it ok to lie? I don't hate Christian celebrations. Lie!!

When is it ok to lie? Christ was born during the winter solstice and pagans celebrate the Sun being renewed. Oh, that makes it ok now.

When is it ok to lie? The Easter bunny left these eggs and toys for you, but don't tell grandma because she celebrates Passover instead.

When is it ok to lie? Santa Claus is coming to town from the North Pole. Jesus? He's just a baby, He loves getting gifts from the East.


 
J

jcha

Guest
#85
I take that you do not believe that Jesus Christ was the true Messiah and that those who call upon his name shall not die but have everlasting life. This is why the Jewish (Israel) people have been cursed to go through the WHOLE tribulation by God himself.

The Ten Commandments (written by the finger of God) are still in use by any Christian or should be. The other 600+ laws were for the Israelites who at the time did not have any governmental, social or religious structure to follow. Simply look to the days prior to their Exodus from Eygpt.

The Bible tells this throughout the old and new testaments. The Bible also tells us that during the tribulations (all seven years) roughly 2/3 of the Jewish people will die. Rem, during the Third Reich only 1/3 of the Jewish population was murdered by Hitler and company.

Revelations 4 though 5 ends the Age of the Gentile and the Age of the Church. Rev. 6 begins Gods return to his People and the tribulations.

What part of the torah should we keep. The Holy Bible is one book divinely, designed and written by both God and 44 authors who have given us 66 books over 2000 years. I think we should keep it all, the whole thing.

Have a Blessed day


Blade
I believe the entire Bible is applicable in our lives. Some laws are temporarily suspended and return during the Millennium. I believe in TRUTH and had to unlearn the lies,like Good Friday.
 
W

wvbeliever

Guest
#86
jcha Let me ask you this my family celebrates Easter to dedicate that day remembering the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and we have a meal that we eat pork, beef, and steak. I want to hear in your own words do I sin against God celebrating like this? I just want to hear a honest answer from your heart on this. And Christmas we pick that day to celebrate the birth of Jesus and eat the same things. No argument just a honest answer. And the reason we do it be cause we know He loved us first to dedicate those days to Him.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#87
jcha Let me ask you this my family celebrates Easter to dedicate that day remembering the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and we have a meal that we eat pork, beef, and steak. I want to hear in your own words do I sin against God celebrating like this? I just want to hear a honest answer from your heart on this. And Christmas we pick that day to celebrate the birth of Jesus and eat the same things. No argument just a honest answer. And the reason we do it be cause we know He loved us first to dedicate those days to Him.

Yes you do sin ....you never invited me I love pork..steak ...and fellowship....so yeah you are wrong for not inviting me.
 
J

jcha

Guest
#88
I agree that truly this is not our home, but I don't understand why you wrote that as a reply.
Because we are totally surrounded by Mystery Babylon. Our English days of the week are also speaking other god names.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#89
Christianity is not correcting what is wrong...but following what is right.
 
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jcha

Guest
#90
jcha Let me ask you this my family celebrates Easter to dedicate that day remembering the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and we have a meal that we eat pork, beef, and steak. I want to hear in your own words do I sin against God celebrating like this? I just want to hear a honest answer from your heart on this. And Christmas we pick that day to celebrate the birth of Jesus and eat the same things. No argument just a honest answer. And the reason we do it be cause we know He loved us first to dedicate those days to Him.
Do we sin in ignorance or do we sin willfully? I sinned in ignorance because I was born into a family that was all Southern Baptists. I no longer celebrate Christ's birthday in December, but my offspring do, because that is what I taught them. I eat a meal with them, and I accept their gifts, and they buy my gifts to give but for some time now I've been making quilts for everybody. I have two beautiful daughters who truly honor me, but they have no time for Bible Study or even a Sunday church. They do not impose on me on Saturday but they know I am there for them if sickness is involved or a crisis arises. I am actually teaching them now by my present actions. We do with our hands what is work and with our minds we speak what we believe.

As for Easter, I don't participate with family at all. They get it and don't impose. Maybe next year they'll come to Passover Seder.

Each day is a gift from God and if you love His Word, you will delight in all the blessings He gives back. The more we study and seek answers, like we do in here at CC BSF, we grow. Iron sharpens iron. We are not at the same place in our walks, but this was true in my immaturity and loved being with seasoned believers.

You will act out your convictions. We have our salvation only through Jesus. How we walk and talk after salvation, is about whether we grow and mature or stay infants on milk.

I personally desire to celebrate and observe the dates with God that He chose.

I can't judge you, but I am glad you asked.
 
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wvbeliever

Guest
#91
jcha I want to hear why you celebrate Passover Seder in detail I am curious? No argument I just want to know why in your heart you chose that way to serve Jesus?
 

lv2ski

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2016
542
15
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#93
“The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
Luke 16:16 NKJV
http://bible.com/114/luk.16.16.NKJV

Both verses are Red Letter.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#94
jcha Let me ask you this my family celebrates Easter to dedicate that day remembering the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and we have a meal that we eat pork, beef, and steak. I want to hear in your own words do I sin against God celebrating like this? I just want to hear a honest answer from your heart on this. And Christmas we pick that day to celebrate the birth of Jesus and eat the same things. No argument just a honest answer. And the reason we do it be cause we know He loved us first to dedicate those days to Him.
easter is pagan.
xmas is pagan.
eating pork is sin.
it doesn't matter what you think. or what I think.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
83
#95
The Jews went under the curse of the law because of sin it shows clearly in Nehemiah Chapter 10 especially verse 29 They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the Lord our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes. They where to do all of them. If you live the law you have to do it all.
What you are saying is that if we believe in 'law-keeping' we must keep all the judgements, statutes and commandments contained in ordinances/works that were given through Moses ? Is that so ? yes or no !
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
333
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#96
I agree that truly this is not our home, but I don't understand why you wrote that as a reply.
If this is not OUR home then why are we living in it and sharing in THEIR practices ?

'Come out of her my people'... says God !
 

DaveTheRave

Senior Member
May 28, 2014
125
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#97
easter is pagan.
xmas is pagan.
eating pork is sin.
it doesn't matter what you think. or what I think.
I strongly believe that God is in the business of transformation, taking broken and sinful people and restoring them to their true identity. I'm sure that the celebrations at Christmas and Easter time were pagan but they were replaced as occasions to give glory to God and remember his goodness. Kind of similar to the way the Cross (a brutal method of execution) now stands as a symbol for Jesus conquering sin and death.

Thats just my two cents anyway.
(P.S. If it doesn't matter what you think then why should anyone listen? Haha, just kidding :) )
 
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
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#98
I strongly believe that God is in the business of transformation, taking broken and sinful people and restoring them to their true identity. I'm sure that the celebrations at Christmas and Easter time were pagan but they were replaced as occasions to give glory to God and remember his goodness. Kind of similar to the way the Cross (a brutal method of execution) now stands as a symbol for Jesus conquering sin and death.

Thats just my two cents anyway.
(P.S. If it doesn't matter what you think then why should anyone listen? Haha, just kidding :) )
Good morning sir,
I used to think the same thing.
God specifically tells us not to worship like the pagans do.
Ask Aaron. He made a golden calf and proclaimed a feast. He was doing it to honor YHVH.
It didn't end well.
 

DaveTheRave

Senior Member
May 28, 2014
125
8
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#99
Good morning sir,
I used to think the same thing.
God specifically tells us not to worship like the pagans do.
Ask Aaron. He made a golden calf and proclaimed a feast. He was doing it to honor YHVH.
It didn't end well.
That's very true, but I would argue that the worship done at Christmas and Easter are very different to the way pagans would have worshiped. Not many people I know would build a golden idol and worship it after Christmas dinner
 
Jul 1, 2016
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That's very true, but I would argue that the worship done at Christmas and Easter are very different to the way pagans would have worshiped. Not many people I know would build a golden idol and worship it after Christmas dinner
no, but they do bring in the evergreen tree, and bow down to it. and the gold and silver balls hanging on it.
and the pretty boxes under it.

brother this is coming from a guy who really enjoyed the xmas season.
I didn't give that up easily.