-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
referring to the Christmas and Easter holidays as purely pagan is sacriligious and ignorant. It all depends who you listen to. There is plenty of evidence that the were both started by Christians or Pagans. Its what you want to believe. Christians as far back a the1st centuries celebrated these holidays using them to minister to their children with. They had some very interesting things they did woth them.
After47 years of life, 24 of it walking with Jesus and knowing and still learning about the wickedness of man and the deep religious nature of us. Its my conclusion that the Christians had some cool and meaningful traditions and the world wanted in on them, but didnt want the Jesus part, so they, as the world always does dilluted the Christ part out to theor owm liking.
They werent spoiled brats back then like we arw today. Eggs and gifts were rare and a delicacy that they could scarcely afford . So gifts and eggs and things like that were a special sacrifice to one another as a symbol of what God did for us.
I'm surprised that all you feast worshippers arent defending these traditions. All you do is take away from another way to model celebrating our God and faith in fellowship with other believers in a way that is totally unique to us.
If they were pagan , then why did the solstice worshippers miss their day by4 days and why is Easter STILL recognized based on moons? Yes, I realize that us2nd class Christians still use a Gregorian calendar and you super Christians are back to using the old Jewish calendar. Notice , you had to go "back" to do that. As Christians we are to be always looking ahead. That is I guess, unless you are a Theologian.
After47 years of life, 24 of it walking with Jesus and knowing and still learning about the wickedness of man and the deep religious nature of us. Its my conclusion that the Christians had some cool and meaningful traditions and the world wanted in on them, but didnt want the Jesus part, so they, as the world always does dilluted the Christ part out to theor owm liking.
They werent spoiled brats back then like we arw today. Eggs and gifts were rare and a delicacy that they could scarcely afford . So gifts and eggs and things like that were a special sacrifice to one another as a symbol of what God did for us.
I'm surprised that all you feast worshippers arent defending these traditions. All you do is take away from another way to model celebrating our God and faith in fellowship with other believers in a way that is totally unique to us.
If they were pagan , then why did the solstice worshippers miss their day by4 days and why is Easter STILL recognized based on moons? Yes, I realize that us2nd class Christians still use a Gregorian calendar and you super Christians are back to using the old Jewish calendar. Notice , you had to go "back" to do that. As Christians we are to be always looking ahead. That is I guess, unless you are a Theologian.
L
the thing is, and again because it has been said quite a number of times by several people, if someone wishes to observe Jewish feasts then go ahead.
but you have to ask the purpose of threads like this that condemn those who do not
scripture declares do NOT let yourself be judged by these things...yet that is what is going on here...people are judging others by what they do....which indicates a standard they have set and that is keeping 'some' of the law because you cannot keep it all
that's just really nonsense...ignore the scriptures stating don' be judged by these things and go ahead and judge everyone who disagrees with you
start a thread on how you prefer to keep Jewish customs/celebrations/only certain laws...whatever...but that is not the purpose ... the purpose is to declare a practice that is neither Jewish nor Christian...it would be Christian if that is their preference, but stating everyone else is following pagan practices reveals what is the actual thought behind the op
Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces[SUP]a[/SUP] of this world rather than on Christ.
9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[SUP]b[/SUP] was put off when you were circumcised by[SUP]c[/SUP]Christ,
2having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[SUP]d[/SUP] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[SUP]e[/SUP]Freedom From Human Rules
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
but you have to ask the purpose of threads like this that condemn those who do not
scripture declares do NOT let yourself be judged by these things...yet that is what is going on here...people are judging others by what they do....which indicates a standard they have set and that is keeping 'some' of the law because you cannot keep it all
that's just really nonsense...ignore the scriptures stating don' be judged by these things and go ahead and judge everyone who disagrees with you
start a thread on how you prefer to keep Jewish customs/celebrations/only certain laws...whatever...but that is not the purpose ... the purpose is to declare a practice that is neither Jewish nor Christian...it would be Christian if that is their preference, but stating everyone else is following pagan practices reveals what is the actual thought behind the op
Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces[SUP]a[/SUP] of this world rather than on Christ.
9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[SUP]b[/SUP] was put off when you were circumcised by[SUP]c[/SUP]Christ,
2having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[SUP]d[/SUP] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[SUP]e[/SUP]Freedom From Human Rules
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
W
Kohenmatt starting with when you said this ". However, I don't think He's as pleased as He would be if we did things the way He set up, not according to the traditions of men." These scriptures applies to me, you and everyone else: Isiah 55:8-9 [SUP]8 [/SUP]For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Doing Gods thinking is your problem we are to pray to Him and seek guidance to thy Lords ways in doing all things and show me in the Bible where God said this feast is better than that one? Or which day is better than the other to Him? Or which of the ten commandments is the best one? I wont hold a Passover against you nor can you hold Easter against me I agree with you on that one. Your reference about you and your kids I understand but the day Jesus was born is not in scripture how can you say God is displeased if I hold that any day of the year or if I celebrate a Passover 10 times in one year. Is the other Passovers less pleasing if they are done right? You are acting like God and judging as a whole instead of seeing peoples works for who they are and that comes from the heart.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Doing Gods thinking is your problem we are to pray to Him and seek guidance to thy Lords ways in doing all things and show me in the Bible where God said this feast is better than that one? Or which day is better than the other to Him? Or which of the ten commandments is the best one? I wont hold a Passover against you nor can you hold Easter against me I agree with you on that one. Your reference about you and your kids I understand but the day Jesus was born is not in scripture how can you say God is displeased if I hold that any day of the year or if I celebrate a Passover 10 times in one year. Is the other Passovers less pleasing if they are done right? You are acting like God and judging as a whole instead of seeing peoples works for who they are and that comes from the heart.
I think Paul brings a fabulous ending to the futility of this thread:
For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
Galatians 5:13*-15 NKJV
http://bible.com/114/gal.5.13-15.NKJV
For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
Galatians 5:13*-15 NKJV
http://bible.com/114/gal.5.13-15.NKJV
I absolutely agree that we shouldn't do things or believe certain things based on our own rationale, because that is erroneous (Deut 12:8, Judges 21:25, Prov 21:2.) Our thoughts have to be rooted in Scripture.
God tells His people which feasts to celebrate. He doesn't mention any others except holidays and traditions that are to be destroyed (Deut 12.)
Genesis 2:2
"Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done."
He doesn't set any as better or worse, and neither do I.
I agree that the exact day isn't known, but it's predominantly known that it isn't December 25th or anywhere close to it. It's widely held that sometime in the Fall is more likely. December 25th was a made up day to synchronize with other holidays.
Remember, I didn't say He was displeased.
We should celebrate and be thankful for God's salvation EVERY day of the year; not just Passover. But Passover was a specific day to be celebrate at a specific time once a year. (Except for the 2nd Passover God's instituted a little bit later in Scripture.)
Are Passovers done at a time that is specifically different than when God told His people to, in lieu of celebrating it at the correct time "less pleasing to God." I would say yes. Is He still pleased? I would say yes, but not as much. Again with your birthday. Would you be more, less or equally pleased if someone sincerely celebrated your birthday, but on a day they made-up to suit their own preferences?
Tell me how you think I've "judged," and how it would be any different that what conclusion you're drawing about me in your statement?
God tells His people which feasts to celebrate. He doesn't mention any others except holidays and traditions that are to be destroyed (Deut 12.)
Genesis 2:2
"Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done."
He doesn't set any as better or worse, and neither do I.
I agree that the exact day isn't known, but it's predominantly known that it isn't December 25th or anywhere close to it. It's widely held that sometime in the Fall is more likely. December 25th was a made up day to synchronize with other holidays.
Remember, I didn't say He was displeased.
We should celebrate and be thankful for God's salvation EVERY day of the year; not just Passover. But Passover was a specific day to be celebrate at a specific time once a year. (Except for the 2nd Passover God's instituted a little bit later in Scripture.)
Are Passovers done at a time that is specifically different than when God told His people to, in lieu of celebrating it at the correct time "less pleasing to God." I would say yes. Is He still pleased? I would say yes, but not as much. Again with your birthday. Would you be more, less or equally pleased if someone sincerely celebrated your birthday, but on a day they made-up to suit their own preferences?
Tell me how you think I've "judged," and how it would be any different that what conclusion you're drawing about me in your statement?
L
the emphasis in this thread is on keeping...not the law because that simply can no longer be done according to the specifications set out by God through Moses...so, yah know, we'll just modify it to make it possible to comply...like choosing your favorite channels on tv ..make your own 'package' so to speak...a weakened version of the original law
we have 4 gospels and a NT chock full of instructions, many given to counter false doctrine
it's like the book of Judges...everyone doing what is right in their own eyes
we have 4 gospels and a NT chock full of instructions, many given to counter false doctrine
it's like the book of Judges...everyone doing what is right in their own eyes
Post #46
Note that this accusation took place after I said that I can't be perfected by the law in Post #38.
Post #33
Post #35
Post #38
Post #40
Post #45
I'm not sure how you think I believe I'm being justified by the Law?
Note that this accusation took place after I said that I can't be perfected by the law in Post #38.
Post #33
Post #35
Post #38
Post #40
Post #45
I'm not sure how you think I believe I'm being justified by the Law?
What does Galatians 3:3 say????
You're the one that keeps bringing up being justified by the law. I keep telling you that's not what that verse says.
Maybe read it one more time even more carefully. Use the KJV...
Brother, what are you talking about? I've NEVER said you can be justified by the Law. Never! No one can. Attempting to be justified by the Law makes a mockery of Jesus' sacrifice. That's why I "liked" your quoting of Galatians 3:3; the verse is absolutely true!
No where in the chain of dialogue you and I had do I ever come close to saying I'm justified or made perfect by the law.
No where in the chain of dialogue you and I had do I ever come close to saying I'm justified or made perfect by the law.
U
I can agree on the pagan influences and perhaps even roots of these holidays.
However, I believe that Jesus did teach that food does not make us unclean anymore and Paul said we would be told to abstain from food but instead we are to receive everything with thanksgiving.
So I question this part of what you state.
Nothing outside a man can make him unclean by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him unclean.’
Mark 7 14-23
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer 1 Timothy 4:1-5
However, I believe that Jesus did teach that food does not make us unclean anymore and Paul said we would be told to abstain from food but instead we are to receive everything with thanksgiving.
So I question this part of what you state.
Nothing outside a man can make him unclean by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him unclean.’
Mark 7 14-23
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer 1 Timothy 4:1-5
L
The op is really quite a revealing document
here is an excerpt:
so yeah...what parts of Torah can we keep today?
read the op again...I bet some of you have not read it all and are just feeding off of other posts and thinking this is not so bad
if you are a Christian, read the op...no no..read it...REALLY read it...and if you agree with it, then I question your acceptance of salvation by faith in Jesus Christ
if you don't agree with it, you may have a better understanding of what is really going on in this thread
there is no option to obey the law in the op
there is only if you do not obey the law, you are not saved
with regards to the bold print in red (which I did)...that is telling you that you do not believe in the God of the Bible if you are not 'torah observant'
the op is not some opinion up for discussion..she is TELLING believers that unless the go back to the law and have HER understanding, they are not saved
here is an excerpt:
so yeah...what parts of Torah can we keep today?
read the op again...I bet some of you have not read it all and are just feeding off of other posts and thinking this is not so bad
if you are a Christian, read the op...no no..read it...REALLY read it...and if you agree with it, then I question your acceptance of salvation by faith in Jesus Christ
if you don't agree with it, you may have a better understanding of what is really going on in this thread
there is no option to obey the law in the op
there is only if you do not obey the law, you are not saved
with regards to the bold print in red (which I did)...that is telling you that you do not believe in the God of the Bible if you are not 'torah observant'
the op is not some opinion up for discussion..she is TELLING believers that unless the go back to the law and have HER understanding, they are not saved
Last edited: