What was the "different gospel" in Galatians 1:6?l

[BillG]

To say that the Old Testament taught us to be "angry with his brother without a cause" is foolishness wouldn't you say? Yet this is the narrative G9 and many others on this forum push.

The reasons I don't get it because I can't say I've seen anyone say that.

If they have done then yes I agree with you.




Thank God that when Adam sinned he set in place redemption.
And it can be seen from Genesis truth thru Malachi.

What I was trying to bring out is that eye for eye was in the Levitical law, given by God.

So how do we reconcile that to what Jesus said?

My thoughts were based on Matt 5:38-44.

And the true intent of what Jesus was saying.[/QUOTE]

Matt 5:17 isn’t the only scripture in the Bible, just like Leviticus isn’t the only Book in the Bible. To understand the true meaning of scripture one must consider them all, not just one or two that suits your doctrine.[/QUOTE]

I know it isn't but I used that because someone bought it up.

 

[Grandpa]

This is exactly what im taling about, we see a verse that says faith and obedience, and without any hint at a claim of "I can be good" enough to enter, this; "seek salvation through their best efforts to obey the 10 commandments from the OT and call that faith in Jesus are mixing law and grace"

the saints keep the Commands and have faith in Yahshua/Jesus.

we can nit pick, bring up yeah yeah but those people do this and a that.

howver the fact is;

the saints keep the Commands and have faith in Yahshua/Jesus.

for the carnal minded man can not even subject himself to Yah's COmmands:

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."


Romans 7:14, “For we know that the Law is spiritual...”

but the carnal man will always find an excuse, you know so many calim the pharisees kept Yah's Law, but the Messiah says they did not even try but rather made their own law:


Mat 15:3-9, “But He answering, said to them, “Why do you also transgress the command of YHWH because of your tradition? For YHWH has commanded, saying, ‘Respect your father and your mother,’ ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me has been dedicated, is certainly released from respecting his father or mother.’ So you have nullified the command of YHWH by your tradition."Hypocrites! Well did Isayah (29:13-14*) prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."



they made ficticious "loop holes"

...

they would not subject themselves to Yah;s Law. Why?

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."

yet so many call names like pharisee, lawyer, etc...for saying obedience is right. when the pharisees and lawyers made "loop holes " for themselves and 23vols of "oral law" for the people to follow...

That's what Paul tries to explain to people just like you. People who look to the law instead of to Christ.

We who have died to the law and no longer work at the law but instead abide in Christ have become Righteous by faith in Christ and His Work in us.

We have become Justified, not by our work at the law, but by our faith in Christ and His Work in us.

We are obedient, not by our work or understanding of the law, but by our faith in Christ and His Work in us.


Romans 13:8-9
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

The fruit of the Spirit is the Lord Jesus Christ's work in us. It is what fulfills the law. But if you are working at the law, trying to keep it in your own understanding and strength, then you are not dead to the law and you are not abiding in the Faith of Jesus Christ. You won't be producing any fruit if you are always looking to the law and not to Christ.

Romans 3:30-31
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[Studyman]

=BillG;3390819]

The reasons I don't get it because I can't say I've seen anyone say that.

If they have done then yes I agree with you.




Thank God that when Adam sinned he set in place redemption.
And it can be seen from Genesis truth thru Malachi.

What I was trying to bring out is that eye for eye was in the Levitical law, given by God.

So how do we reconcile that to what Jesus said?

My thoughts were based on Matt 5:38-44.

And the true intent of what Jesus was saying.

Matt 5:17 isn’t the only scripture in the Bible, just like Leviticus isn’t the only Book in the Bible. To understand the true meaning of scripture one must consider them all, not just one or two that suits your doctrine.

I know it isn't but I used that because someone bought it up.

G9 said;

" you have heard it said eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, but I say to you do not resist an evil person. who ever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other as well".

so much for no law being changed.

This was the reason for my post. It was in response to G9 who used this scriptures to say Jesus changed God's Laws.

I posted the truth that many say "It was said of old time" is speaking of Moses and that Jesus said, in essence, don't listen to Moses, He says one thing, but I teach something different.

I was exposing this teaching as the falsehood it is. When Jesus was talking about "Those of Old Time" He was speaking of the Pharisees and preachers of old time. As Jesus said, they omitted the weightier matters of the Law like mercy, Faith. They taught eye for an eye, but not "love your Brother" which was also taught by the Old Testament.

When you preach that Jesus was speaking about God's Word of old time, and not the Pharisees teaching, it gives the scriptures a completely different meaning.

To say that the Old Testament taught us to be "angry with his brother without a cause" is foolishness wouldn't you say? Yet this is the narrative G9 and many others on this forum push.

So you have read my post. Do you believe when Jesus said "You have heart it said by THEM of Old time" He is speaking to God and God's Words, or do you think He is speaking about the Preachers He just exposed and warned about?

 

[Grandpa]

=BillG;3390819]

G9 said;



This was the reason for my post. It was in response to G9 who used this scriptures to say Jesus changed God's Laws.

I posted the truth that many say "It was said of old time" is speaking of Moses and that Jesus said, in essence, don't listen to Moses, He says one thing, but I teach something different.

I was exposing this teaching as the falsehood it is. When Jesus was talking about "Those of Old Time" He was speaking of the Pharisees and preachers of old time. As Jesus said, they omitted the weightier matters of the Law like mercy, Faith. They taught eye for an eye, but not "love your Brother" which was also taught by the Old Testament.

When you preach that Jesus was speaking about God's Word of old time, and not the Pharisees teaching, it gives the scriptures a completely different meaning.



So you have read my post. Do you believe when Jesus said "You have heart it said by THEM of Old time" He is speaking to God and God's Words, or do you think He is speaking about the Preachers He just exposed and warned about?

You are wrong with your assumptions and philosophy.

The Lord Jesus Christ is talking about the 10 Commandments and what they say in Matthew 5 and then He says 'But I say unto you'.

He is showing THE WHOLE WORLD that they are wrong with their understanding of the law. Not just a certain group of priests.

The 10 commandments are not Gods Law. They are commandments given to men to show them that they cannot fulfill Gods Law. But so few understand this. All it should take is reading Matthew 5 and trying to do what it says.


Would you argue that Matthew 5 is not talking about the 10 commandments? That would seem silly.

 

[BillG]

=BillG;3390819]

G9 said;



This was the reason for my post. It was in response to G9 who used this scriptures to say Jesus changed God's Laws.

I posted the truth that many say "It was said of old time" is speaking of Moses and that Jesus said, in essence, don't listen to Moses, He says one thing, but I teach something different.

I was exposing this teaching as the falsehood it is. When Jesus was talking about "Those of Old Time" He was speaking of the Pharisees and preachers of old time. As Jesus said, they omitted the weightier matters of the Law like mercy, Faith. They taught eye for an eye, but not "love your Brother" which was also taught by the Old Testament.

When you preach that Jesus was speaking about God's Word of old time, and not the Pharisees teaching, it gives the scriptures a completely different meaning.



So you have read my post. Do you believe when Jesus said "You have heart it said by THEM of Old time" He is speaking to God and God's Words, or do you think He is speaking about the Preachers He just exposed and warned about?

I posted the following
Matthew 5:43-44
Love Your Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

This followed on from the eye for an eye.

What is interesting is that the in the OT as I understand it "Hate your enemies" is not found in the mosaic law.

So yes I am saying Jesus was saying "You have heard it said"
Normally when this happened you knew what was coming next.

Exposure of the crap laid on people of the time and correcting.

Hence as I said above "As I understand it there is nothing that I have found in the mosaic law that says "Hate your enemies"

Luke 10:26-29


26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”
29 But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

Seems people did not know the intent of who was whose neighbour.

 

[MattforJesus]

The Bible says that the ten commandments were written by the finger of God,so they are iron clad,and rock steady,which Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way,nailing them to His cross,so let no person judge you of them.

Paul said the law is spiritual,holy,just,and good,which are the laws of love,and moral laws,and he said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains,but if he did not have charity,love in action,then he is nothing,and love works no ill towards their neighbor,therefore love is the fulfilling of the law,and the 2 greatest commandment are love God,and love people,and the law and prophets hang on those 2 laws.

The ten commandments are laws of love towards God and people,so they have to be obeyed,but Jesus showed us a more excellent way in love of other areas,which He said a new commandment I give you that you love one another even as I have loved you,and it is a spiritual sabbath by the Spirit.

 

[gb9]

=BillG;3390819]

G9 said;



This was the reason for my post. It was in response to G9 who used this scriptures to say Jesus changed God's Laws.

I posted the truth that many say "It was said of old time" is speaking of Moses and that Jesus said, in essence, don't listen to Moses, He says one thing, but I teach something different.

I was exposing this teaching as the falsehood it is. When Jesus was talking about "Those of Old Time" He was speaking of the Pharisees and preachers of old time. As Jesus said, they omitted the weightier matters of the Law like mercy, Faith. They taught eye for an eye, but not "love your Brother" which was also taught by the Old Testament.

When you preach that Jesus was speaking about God's Word of old time, and not the Pharisees teaching, it gives the scriptures a completely different meaning.



So you have read my post. Do you believe when Jesus said "You have heart it said by THEM of Old time" He is speaking to God and God's Words, or do you think He is speaking about the Preachers He just exposed and warned about?

except, I quoted what Jesus said during the sermon on the mount. word for word. he directly referenced Exodus 21, then changed it. because he was God in the flesh. all authority was given to Him.

i'm starting to think you are a oneness person, who denies the Trinity, and can't get head around it, so you try ( fail ) to put everyone under a law that only Israel was under ( Romans 2 ).

 

[7777pinacled]

Galatians chapter 1

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—7 which is really no gospel at all.


If the "different gospel" was not grace + the law of Moses, what was it then?

Seems as though the CJB version places emphasis on [traditional] judaism.
And this is a subject i have personally encountered. There are traditional teachings that have been taught for generations till the very generation that would Crucify our Lord. Some, that after hearing i will never repeat.
I would advise anyone who were to curiously explore any such traditions to be extremely carefull. And to pray with out ceasing.
Especially with the internet available to so many now. There are far to many relics of the past(synagogue of satan) strewn about.

Galatians 1Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

1 From: Sha’ul, an emissary — I received my commission not from human beings or through human mediation but through Yeshua the Messiah and God the Father, who raised him from the dead — also from all the brothers with me
2 To: The Messianic communities in Galatia:
3 Grace and shalom to you from God our Father and from the Lord Yeshua the Messiah, 4 who gave himself for our sins, so that he might deliver us from the present evil world-system, in obedience to the will of God, our Father. 5 To him be the glory forever and ever! Amen.
6 I am astounded that you are so quick to remove yourselves from me, the one who called you by the Messiah’s grace, and turn to some other supposedly “Good News,” 7 which is not good news at all! What is really happening is that certain people are pestering you and trying to pervert the genuine Good News of the Messiah. 8 But even if we — or, for that matter, an angel from heaven! — were to announce to you some so-called “Good News” contrary to the Good News we did announce to you, let him be under a curse forever! 9 We said it before, and I say it again: if anyone announces “Good News” contrary to what you received, let him be under a curse forever!
10 Now does that sound as if I were trying to win human approval? No! I want God’s approval! Or that I’m trying to cater to people? If I were still doing that, I would not be a servant of the Messiah.
11 Furthermore, let me make clear to you, brothers, that the Good News as I proclaim it is not a human product; 12 because neither did I receive it from someone else nor was I taught it — it came through a direct revelation from Yeshua the Messiah.
13 For you have heard about my former way of life in [traditional] Judaism — how I did my best to persecute God’s Messianic Community and destroy it; 14 and how, since I was more of a zealot for the traditions handed down by my forefathers than most Jews my age, I advanced in [traditional] Judaism more rapidly than they did.
15 But when God, who picked me out before I was born and called me by his grace, chose 16 to reveal his Son to me, so that I might announce him to the Gentiles, I did not consult anyone; 17 and I did not go up to Yerushalayim to see those who were emissaries before me. Instead, I immediately went off to Arabia and afterwards returned to Dammesek. 18 Not until three years later did I go up to Yerushalayim to make Kefa’s acquaintance, and I stayed with him for two weeks, 19 but I did not see any of the other emissaries except Ya‘akov the Lord’s brother. 20 (Concerning these matters I am writing you about, I declare before God that I am not lying!) 21 Next I went to Syria and Cilicia; 22 but in Y’hudah, the Messianic congregations didn’t even know what I looked like — 23 they were only hearing the report, “The one who used to persecute us now preaches the Good News of the faith he was formerly out to destroy”; 24 and they praised God for me.

 

[Studyman]

except, I quoted what Jesus said during the sermon on the mount. word for word. he directly referenced Exodus 21, then changed it. because he was God in the flesh. all authority was given to Him.

i'm starting to think you are a oneness person, who denies the Trinity, and can't get head around it, so you try ( fail ) to put everyone under a law that only Israel was under ( Romans 2 ).

Yes,

We do worship different Gods.

Rom. 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

The God of the Bible, Jesus before becoming a man, treats everybody the same no matter their DNA. As the Serpent did to Eve, so do we all have forces to trick us into disobedience to Him and His instruction. But those who Trust this Jesus, shall be saved from the wrath to come.

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

 

[Marcelo]

Galatians chapter 1

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—7 which is really no gospel at all.


If the "different gospel" was not grace + the law of Moses, what was it then?

Some brothers and sisters say that the false gospel Paul referred to was just the opposite of what I suggested above -- they say it was actually grace minus the law of Moses.

I think the following verse is enough to rule out this interpretation:Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.

 

[Hizikyah]

Some brothers and sisters say that the false gospel Paul referred to was just the opposite of what I suggested above -- they say it was actually grace minus the law of Moses.

I think the following verse is enough to rule out this interpretation:Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.

Interesting, did Paul then make Timnothy serperated from Messiah, as he had Timothy circumcised:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 16:1-3, “1 Paul came also to Derbe and to Lystra. And a disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek, 2 and he was well spoken of by the brethren who were in Lystra and Iconium. 3 Paul wanted this man to go with him; and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those parts, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]It does not matter why, he did it, and if he was a man pleaser that went against messiah that is even worse.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

That's what Paul tries to explain to people just like you. People who look to the law instead of to Christ.

We who have died to the law and no longer work at the law but instead abide in Christ have become Righteous by faith in Christ and His Work in us.

We have become Justified, not by our work at the law, but by our faith in Christ and His Work in us.

We are obedient, not by our work or understanding of the law, but by our faith in Christ and His Work in us.


Romans 13:8-9
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

The fruit of the Spirit is the Lord Jesus Christ's work in us. It is what fulfills the law. But if you are working at the law, trying to keep it in your own understanding and strength, then you are not dead to the law and you are not abiding in the Faith of Jesus Christ. You won't be producing any fruit if you are always looking to the law and not to Christ.

Romans 3:30-31
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Paul taught a lot of things:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:12-14, “So that the Law truly is holy, and the command holy, and righteous, and good. Therefore, has that which is good become death to me? Let it not be! But the sin, that sin might be manifest, was working death in me through what is good, so that sin through the command might become an exceedingly great sinner. For we know that the Law is Spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Corinthians 3:7-8, “But if the administering of death in letters, engraved on stones, was esteemed, so that the children of Yisra’yl were unable to look steadily at the face of Mosheh because of the esteem of his face, which was passing away, how much more esteemed shall the administering of the Spirit not be?”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Awmĕin.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:27-30, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[lightbearer]

Bump Grandpa

Romans 9:31-33
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 10:3-4

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


Do legalists and judaizers just not understand scripture or do they purposely twist it to their own destruction?? If anyone wants Righteousness there is only One place to go.

If anyone wants Justification there is only One place to go.

If anyone wants Salvation there is only One place to go.

If anyone wants true Obedience there is only One place to go.

If anyone wants Wisdom and Knowledge there is only One place to go.

What do you say to the legalist who doesn't understand scripture but in the pride of his own carnality wants to be a teacher? I suppose you can quote scripture showing their view as error but if they don't understand or they wrestle it and twist it and are led away with the error of the wicked what then? Just let them find groups that will tickle their ears I suppose. They'll just have to be careful when they meet Christians. Because they'll hear all this again.

You keep mentioning Judaizers, Legalist. and Pharisees. These are insulting words to say the least. Are these people that you don't agree with? You do understand according to Hebrews 4 we are to fear lest a promise being left us of entering into his rest (the Gospel), any of us should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

The Gospel was preached unto Israel up to the time of Christ. But it did not profit them because of their disobedience; they chose to sin rather than the rest in our LORD.

This what is disclosed in chapter three.

3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day, [now] if ye will hear his voice,......
8 Harden not your hearts,......
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For they do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, (his indwelling Spirit) if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? [was it] not with them that had sinned,

So in short. Through an Evil heart of unbelief, we depart from the living God. Because we hardened through the deceitfulness of sin and We will not know His ways.
So today hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation when they did provoke. Them that sinned, evil hearted unbelievers, hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. Which whom was He grieved? Them that sinned and had not held their confidence steadfast unto the end. These are those who had not entered into His Rest.

Just so we are clear unbelief in the above text which is found in Hebrews three is this word in the Greek;

"ἀπειθέω (opp. πείθομαι; s. ἀπείθεια) impf. ἠπείθουν; 1 aor. ἠπείθησα (for ἀπιθέω [Hom.] since Aeschyl., Pla.+) disobey, be disobedient (cp. PYadin 24a, 10 [restored] of refusal); in our lit. disobedience is always toward God, God’s ordinances, or revelation..."

That excerpt is from the BDAG lexicon and is not my opinion. It is a fact.

So where was the Gospel preached to Israel as Hebrews 4 states.

At the foot of Mt Sinia. But it did not profit them because they chose sin rather than resting in HIM.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.​

If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
And where is HIS voice?

For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:6,10-14 KJV)

The Greek Septuagint has Deut. 30:14 like this; The word is very near thee, in thy mouth, and in thine heart, and in thine hands to do it.
(Deu 30:14 Brenton)

These verses in the Greek Septuagint and in the Hebrew were readily accessible to all in the Church in Paul's time. Other than they being the Gospel, they would have been easily looked at and were when he quoted them in Romans 10:6-8 That is why quoted them.

So in regards to your use of Romans 9-10. Let's keep everything in context as Paul reveals the Gospel.

Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (That is, to bring Christ, the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments; HIS Statutes) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (That is, to bring up Christ, the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments; HIS Statutes again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Word, the commandments; HIS Statutes manifested in the flesh, our flesh through His flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, in thy heart, and in thy hand: that we may do it; that is, THE WORD OF FAITH, which we preach

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Because it; the Word; HIS Commands; HIS Statutes; HIS Christ is nigh us. In our hearts and in our mouths and in our hands that we do it. That is the word of Faith in which we speak. And that is Grace. For the LORD will circumcise our heart and the heart of our seed!
(Rom 3:21-22,31; 10:6-8; Deut 30:6,11 - 14 LXX)​

 

[Marcelo]

Interesting, did Paul then make Timnothy serperated from Messiah, as he had Timothy circumcised:

Hizikyah, are you yourself circumcised? Of course you know that Paul got Timothy circumcised just to please the Jews.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Paul taught a lot of things:

Romans 7:12-14, “So that the Law truly is holy, and the command holy, and righteous, and good. Therefore, has that which is good become death to me? Let it not be! But the sin, that sin might be manifest, was working death in me through what is good, so that sin through the command might become an exceedingly great sinner. For we know that the Law is Spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin."


2 Corinthians 3:7-8, “But if the administering of death in letters, engraved on stones, was esteemed, so that the children of Yisra’yl were unable to look steadily at the face of Mosheh because of the esteem of his face, which was passing away, how much more esteemed shall the administering of the Spirit not be?”


Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."


Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."


Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"


Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."


Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"


1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."


Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."


Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."


Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Awmĕin.”


John/Yahanan 10:27-30, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."

As Marcelo mentioned, it was because of the Jews that Timothy was circumcised and not because Paul condoned the keeping of the law. We have enough scriptures that state this very fact, including the following:

"Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole Law.You who are trying to be justified by the Law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

 

[Hizikyah]

Some brothers and sisters say that the false gospel Paul referred to was just the opposite of what I suggested above -- they say it was actually grace minus the law of Moses.

I think the following verse is enough to rule out this interpretation:Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.

Interesting, did Paul then make Timnothy serperated from Messiah, as he had Timothy circumcised:

Acts 16:1-3, “1 Paul came also to Derbe and to Lystra. And a disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek, 2 and he was well spoken of by the brethren who were in Lystra and Iconium. 3 Paul wanted this man to go with him; and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those parts, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.”


It does not matter why, he did it, and if he was a man pleaser that went against messiah that is even worse.

John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."


John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 –poimén)."


Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Hizikyah, are you yourself circumcised? Of course you know that Paul got Timothy circumcised just to please the Jews.

Hmm, so it's OK to "make Messiah of no value" (according to Paul) to please men?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 5:29, "And Kĕpha and the other emissaries answering, said, “We have to obey YHWH rather than men.” [/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

Paul taught a lot of things:

Romans 7:12-14, “So that the Law truly is holy, and the command holy, and righteous, and good. Therefore, has that which is good become death to me? Let it not be! But the sin, that sin might be manifest, was working death in me through what is good, so that sin through the command might become an exceedingly great sinner. For we know that the Law is Spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin."


2 Corinthians 3:7-8, “But if the administering of death in letters, engraved on stones, was esteemed, so that the children of Yisra’yl were unable to look steadily at the face of Mosheh because of the esteem of his face, which was passing away, how much more esteemed shall the administering of the Spirit not be?”


Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."


Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."


Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"


Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."


Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"


Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"


1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."


Romans 7:7, Shall we therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."


Romans 7:12, "Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous."


Ephesians 6:2-3, "Honor your father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise: That it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth."

2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Awmĕin.”


John/Yahanan 10:27-30, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."

As Marcelo mentioned, it was because of the Jews that Timothy was circumcised and not because Paul condoned the keeping of the law. We have enough scriptures that state this very fact, including the following:

"Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole Law.You who are trying to be justified by the Law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

Yes because Paul would never condone keeping the Law right?..

Ummm, but what about this:

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy, so I (Paul) worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."


Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."


Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."


1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"


Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."


Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!";=

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Philippians 3:17-18, “Join together in imitating me, brothers, and pay close attention to those who live by the example we have given you. For I have often told you, and now tell you even with tears, that many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 1:26, “The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he (Jesus) himself lived.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Timothy 1:13-15, "Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you. You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”[/FONT]

 

[Marcelo]

Hmm, so it's OK to "make Messiah of no value" (according to Paul) to please men?

What makes the Lord Jesus of no value is the inner attitude, i.e., if you go through circumcision because you think it is necessary for salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

What makes the Lord Jesus of no value is the inner attitude, i.e., if you go through circumcision because you think it is necessary for salvation.

Amen!