What was the "different gospel" in Galatians 1:6?l

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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Dear Grandpa, Paul was a deep thinker and his theology was a bit complex. Even Peter commented on it (2 Pet. 3:16). He did a complete 180 from being a militant Pharisee in defense of the law to a militant advocate of Jesus Christ. I know a little something of what that's like. It's completely understandable. So Paul's teachings in Romans are comprehensive dealing with both law and grace.

Reading Romans I've learned that I'm a sinner by nature but I have redemption through Jesus Christ who is the propitiation for my sin. But I must no longer live in sin or I am under the law and judged by it. I am justified by faith but it's not enough to confess Jesus Christ with my mouth. I must also believe from the heart that God raised him from the dead. If I believe, the Spirit that raised up Jesus shall also raise me up. After we accept Jesus, we can no longer willfully sin or we are condemned by the law. If we stand by faith, we will no longer fulfill the lusts of the flesh. To have faith and to believe from the heart is really important. Without this, we're lost. I heard of Jesus Christ many years before I knew him. There's a big difference between hearing and knowing. In hearing, there's a doubt. In knowing there's faith.
"Psalm 115:11 Ye that fear the Lord, trust in the Lord: he is their help and their shield."
.
2 Peter 3:17-18
[FONT=&quot]17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

When we grow in grace and the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, Paul becomes much easier to understand.

2 Corinthians 3:5-6
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[FONT=&quot]5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

This is not hard to explain to a Christian.

This becomes difficult to explain to legalists and pharisees who wrestle and twist the word and are led away with the error of the wicked.

All I can say is that the vail comes off in Christ. It won't be possible to understand Paul if you don't come to Christ first.[/FONT]
 

nddreamer

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2017
142
4
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Dear grandpa, You say that you live by grace. You are filled with the Spirit and you are saved by Jesus Christ our Lord and that you have no more need for the law. Jesus Christ is the end of the law and it no longer applies to you. But there is one higher than Jesus Christ. God the Father is Lord of all. Our Lord Jesus was sent by the Father to accomplish his will of bringing salvation to his elect.
"John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him."
"John 5:30 I (Jesus) can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
"Matt. 7:21 Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

The Father is also the one who sends the Holy Spirit.
"James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights."
"Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"

You believe that because you have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and you are anointed by the Spirit and live by grace that you can't be judged by the law.
"John 15:1-2 I (Jesus) am the vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away."
Ez. 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?"
"Ez. 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."
"Num. 15:30-31 But the soul that doeth aught presumptuously, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among the people. Because he hath despised the word of the Lord, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him."

It's obvious that you are pretty adamant about what you believe to be true. The same is true for those you call the legalists but the weight of scriptural proof is far heavier on their side. All I hope is that you live a very sin free life and may you have a very Blessed Christmas!
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 10:23-33, “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 13:41-43, "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."[/FONT]
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Dear grandpa, You say that you live by grace. You are filled with the Spirit and you are saved by Jesus Christ our Lord and that you have no more need for the law. Jesus Christ is the end of the law and it no longer applies to you. But there is one higher than Jesus Christ. God the Father is Lord of all. Our Lord Jesus was sent by the Father to accomplish his will of bringing salvation to his elect.
"John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him."
"John 5:30 I (Jesus) can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
"Matt. 7:21 Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

The Father is also the one who sends the Holy Spirit.
"James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights."
"Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"

You believe that because you have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and you are anointed by the Spirit and live by grace that you can't be judged by the law.
"John 15:1-2 I (Jesus) am the vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away."
Ez. 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?"
"Ez. 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."
"Num. 15:30-31 But the soul that doeth aught presumptuously, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among the people. Because he hath despised the word of the Lord, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him."

It's obvious that you are pretty adamant about what you believe to be true. The same is true for those you call the legalists but the weight of scriptural proof is far heavier on their side. All I hope is that you live a very sin free life and may you have a very Blessed Christmas!
Romans 9:31-33
[FONT=&quot]31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 10:3-4
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[FONT=&quot]3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


Do legalists and judaizers just not understand scripture or do they purposely twist it to their own destruction?? If anyone wants Righteousness there is only One place to go.

If anyone wants Justification there is only One place to go.

If anyone wants Salvation there is only One place to go.

If anyone wants true Obedience there is only One place to go.

If anyone wants Wisdom and Knowledge there is only One place to go.

What do you say to the legalist who doesn't understand scripture but in the pride of his own carnality wants to be a teacher? I suppose you can quote scripture showing their view as error but if they don't understand or they wrestle it and twist it and are led away with the error of the wicked what then? Just let them find groups that will tickle their ears I suppose. They'll just have to be careful when they meet Christians. Because they'll hear all this again.[/FONT]
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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516
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non responsive,

you still have not said what churhc you attend

you ignore the fact that paul said according to THE LAW, he was found blameless.

Finally second to last paragraph is laughable. 1st off. All sinne4rs are in the same category, dead. It does not matter if your a jew, a pharisee, a saducee, a catholic as christian, a Muslim, whatever you claim to follow if your a sinner your dead, and your all in the same boat. Headed to hell unless you repent. Second, My version of nice sentence? I just posted what paul said, if you do not like it, that is up to you.

As for your last paragraph, I agree, I am clad we have these conversations so people can see what is really going on here. And see that you do not understand what the law is, what a pharisee is, WHat the gospel is, And will not admit what churhc you go to (you have something to hide)
Matt. 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

I won't be bullied or intimidated into rejecting God's Word and following a religion that "Transgresses the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and Traditions." Not from the Pope, or Jimmy Swaggart, or you. You want to preach there is no difference in sin, you go right on ahead. It will fit right along with your other sermons. "God's Laws are not for a Christian" and "The Pharisees were trying to please God by obeying HIS Law"



Phip. 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

What part of God's Law found God's True church guilty? Not God's Laws, but the Laws the Pharisees created. What part of God's Laws continued animal sacrifice after the Messiah came?

"We have a LAW
, and by OUR Law He should die".

Just like Jesus said: "9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"

Now you can preach the Jew's Laws and God's Laws are the same if you want. Or you can accept that God is greater than you, that His Word's, ALL of them, are truth. You don't have to make the same mistake the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time made EG.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

I told you what Church I belong to. They don't create images of God in the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model.

They never created their own High Days, their own "righteousness". They were "Faithful" to God and honored Him with the kind of obedience and respect a great Almighty God deserves, like Jesus did.

By the grace of God this is the church I pick up my cross and follow. Your scorn is proof positive that I am on the right track. I welcome it EG.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
=Nehemiah6;3387847]
You are mistaken in believing that only the Levitical Priesthood was changed (actually nullified since the order of Melchizedek had no relation to the Levitical Priesthood).

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. (Heb 7:12)

Thanks for the Reply.

Yes, we have been taught since our childhood that the New Covenant changed God's Law Structure. But if you continue this Hebrew's scriptures it really points out exactly what was changed and why.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

The Levitical Priesthood, a shadow of the Priesthood Jesus would become, said nothing about the "TRIBE" of Judah, rather, the tribe of Levi. For Jesus to receive this priesthood, there had to be a "CHANGE" regarding what tribe could perform it.

1. GIFTS, OFFERINGS, AND SACRIFICES ON EARTH NULLIFIED
For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. (Heb 8:3).
Jesus offered the sacrifices required by the Law. He was the Lamb, He offered Himself a Lamb for the slaughter.

How does this scripture nullify His offering?

2. THE OLD COVENANT NULLIFIED
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Heb 8:13)
It was the Priesthood that was changed, nothing else.

"12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

2 things were changed.

#1. How God's Instructions were administered. (No more Levites, but one High Priest from the tribe of Judah)

#2. How sin's were forgiven(No more Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial "works of the Law" for remission of sins, rather, Jesus with His perfect offering, takes away our sins.


3. ORDINANCES OF DIVINE SERVICE NULLIFIED
Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. (Heb 9:1)
This is speaking to the old Priesthood, the Levitical Priesthood that was changed.


4. THE TABERNACLE/SANCTUARY (TEMPLE) NULLIFIED
For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. (Heb 9:2)
More description of the "First" Priesthood. Where is the evidence that this is speaking to anything other than the "Priesthood"?


5. CARNAL ORDINANCES NULLIFIED (FEASTS & FESTIVALS INCLUDED)
Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (Heb 9:10)
Again, all parts of the Levitical Priesthood God says was "Changed". We have a new and better "Priesthood" now.


6. THE SHED BLOOD OF ANIMALS NULLIFIED
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. (Heb 9:12)
Again, I agree perfectly with the scriptures you post, but they are all taking about the Priesthood which has always been in charge of 2 things. The Administration of God's Laws, and the sacrifices for remission of sins.

No longer do we go to the Levite to hear God's Word and take goats for remission of our sins.

Our High Priest writes God's Laws directly on our hearts, and has cleansed us with His Blood once and for all.

Nothing else has changed, and nothing has been nullified, only fulfilled.

The definition of God's Laws, or the Old Testament has not changed, only the Priesthood has changed, at least according to the Word of God.

You said:

You are mistaken in believing that only the Levitical Priesthood was changed
Can you provide any scriptural evidence to support this teaching? Or explain where I am mistaken and how?

thanks N6 :)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,836
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" you have heard it said eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, but I say to you do not resist an evil person. who ever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other as well".

so much for no law being changed.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,582
2,046
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North Carolina
If I may add another thought about "works." We should do good works for the good of God's plans and not just to gather for ourselves rewards. Yes, there are those who do good works and should be rewarded because they do it from a clean and humble heart, not just to be seen, heard. However, I would submit that perhaps each one of us may have done a good work for that heavenly reward. In other words, isn't the state of one's heart or rather the motive, the most important part whenever doing any work? Just a thought.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
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" you have heard it said eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, but I say to you do not resist an evil person. who ever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other as well".

so much for no law being changed.
Is. 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.

Lam. 3:30 He giveth his cheek to him that smiteth him: he is filled full with reproach.

Matt. 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Yes, the Pharisees did teach "Of Old time" eye for an eye, but God's Word taught differently as you can see.

Jesus said this of them for whoever cares to know His Truth.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

God's Word has always taught Mercy, even if those "Of old time" did not.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Matt. 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

I won't be bullied or intimidated into rejecting God's Word and following a religion that "Transgresses the Commandments of God by their own doctrines and Traditions." Not from the Pope, or Jimmy Swaggart, or you. You want to preach there is no difference in sin, you go right on ahead. It will fit right along with your other sermons. "God's Laws are not for a Christian" and "The Pharisees were trying to please God by obeying HIS Law"



Phip. 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

What part of God's Law found God's True church guilty? Not God's Laws, but the Laws the Pharisees created. What part of God's Laws continued animal sacrifice after the Messiah came?

"We have a LAW
, and by OUR Law He should die".

Just like Jesus said: "9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"

Now you can preach the Jew's Laws and God's Laws are the same if you want. Or you can accept that God is greater than you, that His Word's, ALL of them, are truth. You don't have to make the same mistake the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time made EG.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

I told you what Church I belong to. They don't create images of God in the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model.

They never created their own High Days, their own "righteousness". They were "Faithful" to God and honored Him with the kind of obedience and respect a great Almighty God deserves, like Jesus did.

By the grace of God this is the church I pick up my cross and follow. Your scorn is proof positive that I am on the right track. I welcome it EG.
as usual. No meat to your posts. Just a lot of innuendo. While continuing to refuse to tell us what churhc you go to. (No you did not tell me, The Catholics claim they belong to christs church, and use the same4 examples you do. Your afraid for some reason. And thats on you.

I will leave you to your religion. I will leave you to your self righteousness. Only God can help you.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,637
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Can you provide any scriptural evidence to support this teaching? Or explain where I am mistaken and how?
Since Scripture does NOT lump everything together and label it as "the Levitical Priesthood" no one has the authority or right to do so. And that is where you are mistaken.

Study Exodus through Deuteronomy and you will discover that each of these items is treated in detail with its own set of laws, and each of these items was nullified through the finished work of Christ:

1. The tabernacle/sanctuary [later temple] and all its accoutrements.

2. The Levitical Priesthood itself and the service of the priests and High Priest.

3. The gifts, offerings, and sacrifices brought to the priests throughout the year.

4. All the other ordinances called "carnal ordinances" (ceremonial observances, including feasts and festivals, new moons, sabbaths , holy days).

5. The significance of the application of the shed blood of animals.

6. The entire Old Covenant as presented in the Torah and ratified with the blood of animals. The New Covenant was ratified with the blood of Christ, and replaced the Old Covenant altogether.

Some of the laws of Moses were left binding (as in Acts 15) and the Ten Commandments as well as the two greatest commandments were incorporated into the Law of Christ.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,897
4,341
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But wasn't eye for an eye part if the Levitical law?

Leviticus 24:17-22


17 “Whoever kills any man shall surely be put to death. 18 Whoever kills an animal shall make it good, animal for animal.
19 ‘If a man causes disfigurement of his neighbor, as he has done, so shall it be done to him— 20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; as he has caused disfigurement of a man, so shall it be done to him. 21 And whoever kills an animal shall restore it; but whoever kills a man shall be put to death. 22 You shall have the same law for the stranger and for one from your own country; for I am the Lord your God.’ ”

The above concept can also be found in the code of Hammurabi.
Which sceptics say was copied into the mosaic law.

However this code did not befit the punishment according to the crime.

Hammurabi 157. if a man causes a miscarriage by hitting a woman and the woman dies—daughter of man is executed.

Yet we find in

Deuteronomy 24:16


16 “Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall children be put to death for their fathers; a person shall be put to death for his own sin.

So there is a difference.


To me that difference is punishment that befits the crime in the Bible or should I say the Levitical law. Which is mercy (if one can call it that) because this went way beyond the culture at the time and before.

What is interesting is when Jesus said

Matthew 5:43-44
Love Your Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

This followed on from the eye for an eye.

What is interesting is that the in the OT as I understand it "Hate your enemies" is not found in the mosaic law.

The Pharisees prescribed this principle on

Leviticus 19:18
18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

So their neighbour was their own children or the children of Israel.
Therefore anyone else were enemies.

What is also interesting

Matthew 5:38-42
Go the Second Mile
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

V41. Compels is a technical term that refers to the law of impressment. The Roman government could press anyone into its service to carry a load as far as one mile. Matthew records a Roman officer doing this to Simon of Cyrene in 27:32.(NKJV Bible study notes) so was Jesus taking here about who the Israelites who they considering their enemies and making his point.


So I would be interested to know how people reconcile Matt 5:38-42 with the law in Leviticus.

Is. 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.

Is the prophecy about Jesus.


And yes it's him who we should aspire to be like and walk how he has asked us to.

Sorry for long post.


Just my simple thoughts.



 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Since Scripture does NOT lump everything together and label it as "the Levitical Priesthood" no one has the authority or right to do so. And that is where you are mistaken.

Study Exodus through Deuteronomy and you will discover that each of these items is treated in detail with its own set of laws, and each of these items was nullified through the finished work of Christ:

1. The tabernacle/sanctuary [later temple] and all its accoutrements.

2. The Levitical Priesthood itself and the service of the priests and High Priest.

3. The gifts, offerings, and sacrifices brought to the priests throughout the year.

4. All the other ordinances called "carnal ordinances" (ceremonial observances, including feasts and festivals, new moons, sabbaths , holy days).

5. The significance of the application of the shed blood of animals.

6. The entire Old Covenant as presented in the Torah and ratified with the blood of animals. The New Covenant was ratified with the blood of Christ, and replaced the Old Covenant altogether.

Some of the laws of Moses were left binding (as in Acts 15) and the Ten Commandments as well as the two greatest commandments were incorporated into the Law of Christ.
Thanks for your reply. It would do me no good to simply re-post what I already posted since you didn't consider any it the first time I posted it.

Passover isn't a "Carnal Commandment", There is nothing in the Bible to make this so.

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Priests were made by the Levitical Priesthood, not by God's Holy Days.

I think it is a mistake to ignore what Hebrews 7 teaches about what was "Changed" and why it was Changed.

Thanks for the conversation.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Colossians 2:8, “See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah.”

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 5:7-8, "Therefore cleanse out the old leaven, so that you are a new lump, as you are unleavened. For also Messiah our Passover was offered for us. So then let us observe the festival, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of evil and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."


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Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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But wasn't eye for an eye part if the Levitical law?

Leviticus 24:17-22


17 “Whoever kills any man shall surely be put to death. 18 Whoever kills an animal shall make it good, animal for animal.
19 ‘If a man causes disfigurement of his neighbor, as he has done, so shall it be done to him— 20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; as he has caused disfigurement of a man, so shall it be done to him. 21 And whoever kills an animal shall restore it; but whoever kills a man shall be put to death. 22 You shall have the same law for the stranger and for one from your own country; for I am the Lord your God.’ ”

The above concept can also be found in the code of Hammurabi.
Which sceptics say was copied into the mosaic law.

However this code did not befit the punishment according to the crime.

Hammurabi 157. if a man causes a miscarriage by hitting a woman and the woman dies—daughter of man is executed.

Yet we find in

Deuteronomy 24:16


16 “Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall children be put to death for their fathers; a person shall be put to death for his own sin.

So there is a difference.


To me that difference is punishment that befits the crime in the Bible or should I say the Levitical law. Which is mercy (if one can call it that) because this went way beyond the culture at the time and before.

What is interesting is when Jesus said

Matthew 5:43-44
Love Your Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

This followed on from the eye for an eye.

What is interesting is that the in the OT as I understand it "Hate your enemies" is not found in the mosaic law.

The Pharisees prescribed this principle on

Leviticus 19:18
18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

So their neighbour was their own children or the children of Israel.
Therefore anyone else were enemies.

What is also interesting

Matthew 5:38-42
Go the Second Mile
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

V41. Compels is a technical term that refers to the law of impressment. The Roman government could press anyone into its service to carry a load as far as one mile. Matthew records a Roman officer doing this to Simon of Cyrene in 27:32.(NKJV Bible study notes) so was Jesus taking here about who the Israelites who they considering their enemies and making his point.


So I would be interested to know how people reconcile Matt 5:38-42 with the law in Leviticus.

Is. 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.

Is the prophecy about Jesus.


And yes it's him who we should aspire to be like and walk how he has asked us to.

Sorry for long post.


Just my simple thought.



Good question given the mainstream teaching of our time.

Here are my thoughts.

The point is the Old Testament is a prophesy about Jesus from the beginning to the end. (And God said "Let their be Light) Todays mainstream preachers teach that Jesus created a different instruction than He did as God of the Old Testament. The Preachers of His time were saying the same thing. So Jesus exposed them.

Matt. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The Mainstream Preachers of His time had distorted the Commandments of God. They created their own Doctrines as Jesus said and taught that Jesus was a false preacher.

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?20 The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?


Matt. 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

He is explaining this to the people in Matt. 5.

Matt. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

He set the stage for His teaching that followed:

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

This isn't taking about the Law and Prophets, or Moses, rather, what the Preachers of His Time had been preaching for years.

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:

Jesus and His Father are one as He said. So Jesus wasn't preaching differently than His Father, He was preaching differently than the accepted Mainstream God of Abraham preachers of that time. He said the same thing in Matt. 23.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

It was the teaching of the Law and Prophets not be "angry with his brother without a cause". To say that the Old Testament taught us to be "angry with his brother without a cause" is foolishness wouldn't you say? Yet this is the narrative G9 and many others on this forum push.

But the Jews hated and killed the Prophets who were blameless for years according to their Law, not God's. Jesus is exposing these false preachers.

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time" etc. etc. But I say, (What I said in the Law and Prophets, we shouldn't be angry with our brother without a cause)

Everything He spoke about in this Chapter was taught in the Old Testament. But It is promoted by many who come in Christ's name as a "NEW" law, as a different teaching, as G9 did.

This is why I replied to His post.

Can you see what the point of my post is?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Good question given the mainstream teaching of our time.

Here are my thoughts.

The point is the Old Testament is a prophesy about Jesus from the beginning to the end. (And God said "Let their be Light) Todays mainstream preachers teach that Jesus created a different instruction than He did as God of the Old Testament. The Preachers of His time were saying the same thing. So Jesus exposed them.

Matt. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The Mainstream Preachers of His time had distorted the Commandments of God. They created their own Doctrines as Jesus said and taught that Jesus was a false preacher.

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?20 The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?


Matt. 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

He is explaining this to the people in Matt. 5.

Matt. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

He set the stage for His teaching that followed:

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

This isn't taking about the Law and Prophets, or Moses, rather, what the Preachers of His Time had been preaching for years.

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:

Jesus and His Father are one as He said. So Jesus wasn't preaching differently than His Father, He was preaching differently than the accepted Mainstream God of Abraham preachers of that time. He said the same thing in Matt. 23.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

It was the teaching of the Law and Prophets not be "angry with his brother without a cause". To say that the Old Testament taught us to be "angry with his brother without a cause" is foolishness wouldn't you say? Yet this is the narrative G9 and many others on this forum push.

But the Jews hated and killed the Prophets who were blameless for years according to their Law, not God's. Jesus is exposing these false preachers.

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time" etc. etc. But I say, (What I said in the Law and Prophets, we shouldn't be angry with our brother without a cause)

Everything He spoke about in this Chapter was taught in the Old Testament. But It is promoted by many who come in Christ's name as a "NEW" law, as a different teaching, as G9 did.

This is why I replied to His post.

Can you see what the point of my post is?
To be honest I is a little confused.

You say "Good question given the mainstream of our time"

I thought I was relaying how Jesus came against the mainstream teaching of his time"
Therefore Jesus was exposing them.

It was the teaching of the Law and Prophets not be "angry with his brother without a cause". To say that the Old Testament taught us to be "angry with his brother without a cause" is foolishness wouldn't you say? Yet this is the narrative G9 and many others on this forum push.
Sorry brother but I do not get that quote.
What I do agree with not to be angry with a brother without cause.

What I don't get

[/QUOTE]To say that the Old Testament taught us to be "angry with his brother without a cause" is foolishness wouldn't you say? Yet this is the narrative G9 and many others on this forum push.[/QUOTE]

The reasons I don't get it because I can't say I've seen anyone say that.

If they have done then yes I agree with you.


The point is the Old Testament is a prophesy about Jesus from the beginning to the end. (And God said "Let their be Light) Todays mainstream preachers teach that Jesus created a different instruction than He did as God of the Old Testament. The Preachers of His time were saying the same thing. So Jesus exposed them.
Thank God that when Adam sinned he set in place redemption.
And it can be seen from Genesis truth thru Malachi.

What I was trying to bring out is that eye for eye was in the Levitical law, given by God.

So how do we reconcile that to what Jesus said?

My thoughts were based on Matt 5:38-44.

And the true intent of what Jesus was saying.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Exodus 23:7, “Keep yourself far from a false matter, and do not kill the innocent and the righteous, for I do not declare the wrong right.”


Romans 4:5, "And to him who is not working but believes on Him who is declaring right the wicked, his belief is reckoned for righteousness,"


Proverbs 17:15, “He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the righteous, both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord."


1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."


Revelation 22:11-15, “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood.”
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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To be honest I is a little confused.

You say "Good question given the mainstream of our time"

I thought I was relaying how Jesus came against the mainstream teaching of his time"
Therefore Jesus was exposing them.



Sorry brother but I do not get that quote.
What I do agree with not to be angry with a brother without cause.

What I don't get
To say that the Old Testament taught us to be "angry with his brother without a cause" is foolishness wouldn't you say? Yet this is the narrative G9 and many others on this forum push.[/QUOTE]

The reasons I don't get it because I can't say I've seen anyone say that.

If they have done then yes I agree with you.




Thank God that when Adam sinned he set in place redemption.
And it can be seen from Genesis truth thru Malachi.

What I was trying to bring out is that eye for eye was in the Levitical law, given by God.

So how do we reconcile that to what Jesus said?

My thoughts were based on Matt 5:38-44.

And the true intent of what Jesus was saying.[/QUOTE]

Matt 5:17 isn’t the only scripture in the Bible, just like Leviticus isn’t the only Book in the Bible. To understand the true meaning of scripture one must consider them all, not just one or two that suits your doctrine.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Leviticus 19:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]17, "‘Do not hate your brother in your heart. Reprove your neighbor, for certain, and bear no sin because of him."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]34, "‘Let the stranger who dwells among you be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself. For you were strangers in the land of Mitsrayim. I am [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength."[/FONT]
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
Romans 9:31-33
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 10:3-4

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


Do legalists and judaizers just not understand scripture or do they purposely twist it to their own destruction?? If anyone wants Righteousness there is only One place to go.

If anyone wants Justification there is only One place to go.

If anyone wants Salvation there is only One place to go.

If anyone wants true Obedience there is only One place to go.

If anyone wants Wisdom and Knowledge there is only One place to go.

What do you say to the legalist who doesn't understand scripture but in the pride of his own carnality wants to be a teacher? I suppose you can quote scripture showing their view as error but if they don't understand or they wrestle it and twist it and are led away with the error of the wicked what then? Just let them find groups that will tickle their ears I suppose. They'll just have to be careful when they meet Christians. Because they'll hear all this again.
You keep mentioning Judaizers, Legalist. and Pharisees. These are insulting words to say the least. Are these people that you don't agree with? You do understand according to Hebrews 4 we are to fear lest a promise being left us of entering into his rest (the Gospel), any of us should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

The Gospel was preached unto Israel up to the time of Christ. But it did not profit them because of their disobedience; they chose to sin rather than the rest in our LORD.

This what is disclosed in chapter three.

3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day, [now] if ye will hear his voice,......
8 Harden not your hearts,......
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For they do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, (his indwelling Spirit) if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? [was it] not with them that had sinned,

So in short. Through an Evil heart of unbelief, we depart from the living God. Because we hardened through the deceitfulness of sin and We will not know His ways.
So today hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation when they did provoke. Them that sinned, evil hearted unbelievers, hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. Which whom was He grieved? Them that sinned and had not held their confidence steadfast unto the end. These are those who had not entered into His Rest.

Just so we are clear unbelief in the above text which is found in Hebrews three is this word in the Greek ἀπειθέω (opp. πείθομαι; s. ἀπείθεια) impf. ἠπείθουν; 1 aor. ἠπείθησα (for ἀπιθέω [Hom.] since Aeschyl., Pla.+) disobey, be disobedient (cp. PYadin 24a, 10 [restored] of refusal); in our lit. disobedience is always toward God, God’s ordinances, or revelation...

That excerpt is from the BDAG lexicon and is not my opinion. It is a fact.

So where was the Gospel preached to Israel as Hebrews 4 states.

At the foot of Mt Sinia. But it did not profit them because they chose sin rather than resting in HIM.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
And where is HIS voice?

For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
(Deu 30:6,10-14 KJV)

The Greek Septuagint has Deut. 30:14 like this; The word is very near thee, in thy mouth, and in thine heart, and in thine hands to do it.
(Deu 30:14 Brenton)

These verses in the Greek Septuagint and in the Hebrew were readily accessible to all in the Church in Paul's time. Other than they being the Gospel, they would have been easily looked at and were when he quoted them in Romans 10:6-8 That is why quoted them.

So
say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (That is, to bring Christ, the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments; HIS Statutes) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (That is, to bring up Christ, the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments; HIS Statutes again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Word, the commandments; HIS Statutes manifested in the flesh, our flesh through His flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, in thy heart, and in thy hand: that we may do it; that is, THE WORD OF FAITH, which we preach

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Because it; the Word; HIS Commands; HIS Statutes; HIS Christ is nigh us. In our hearts and in our mouths and in our hands that we do it. That is the word of Faith in which we speak. And that is Grace. For the LORD will circumcise our heart and the heart of our seed!
(Rom 3:21-22,31; 10:6-8; Deut 30:6,11 - 14 LXX)