What's Wrong with This Picture...?

[Depleted]

You miss the forest for the trees. A church voting to accept a person on their profession of faith has not one thing to do with them being voted into heaven, voting them into Christs church, or salvation, nor is it implying anything against the passages given.

Aaannnnnd for the record, all saved have made a statement of faith. You're missing that, too, of course.

Reversal time. It's the end of service. You pull aside an elder to ask for prayer, but, much to your surprise, you're asked to stand in front of the whole congregation and give your statement of faith. (Understand this means instantly, so you don't have time to prepare what to say.) Could you do it?

Truthfully, if it was me, and once I got over the terror of having that many people staring at me, (I hate being the center of attention), I'd start babbling everything I know about God and the Bible for fear I wouldn't give a complete statement, and people would blackball me because I didn't say the words they're expecting. (And it is me, so I know I don't usually give the words expected. lol)


The reason I ask is because my denom does expect some basics in our understanding. Just the basic. And they're fully aware that having us sit (we don't stand in front of the whole congregation, thank you, Lord!) in front of one to three learned men in God would freak us out. So, they have the basic questions that just require yes/no answers. (Do you believe in God? Do you believe in the Trinity? Do you believe Jesus died to propitiate for your sins? Except they use simpler words than propitiate. etc.)

I couldn't give a complete statement of faith if my life depended on it.

 

[Magenta]

Opinions are like eyeballs. We all have (at least) one..lol

Maxwel has only one (so I have been told) but I would never call him one

 

[Depleted]

The op said she was voted into the church.

And the title is "What's wrong with this picture?" In this case, you're agreeing with OP. Voting in is a stupid idea!

 

[Locutus]

(...if anything)

A lady goes forward to join the church (the pastor invited people to join). The pastor shakes her hand, and then announces she is coming to join the church by statement of faith.

So the church immediately votes to receive her by her statement of faith. Unanimous reception (for those who voted).

Then, the pastor, after she is voted in as a member, asks her what her statement of faith is.

She says "I just want to be a part of the church."

Um. OK.

Nuthin now

 

[preacher4truth]

Reversal time. It's the end of service. You pull aside an elder to ask for prayer, but, much to your surprise, you're asked to stand in front of the whole congregation and give your statement of faith. (Understand this means instantly, so you don't have time to prepare what to say.) Could you do it?

Truthfully, if it was me, and once I got over the terror of having that many people staring at me, (I hate being the center of attention), I'd start babbling everything I know about God and the Bible for fear I wouldn't give a complete statement, and people would blackball me because I didn't say the words they're expecting. (And it is me, so I know I don't usually give the words expected. lol)


The reason I ask is because my denom does expect some basics in our understanding. Just the basic. And they're fully aware that having us sit (we don't stand in front of the whole congregation, thank you, Lord!) in front of one to three learned men in God would freak us out. So, they have the basic questions that just require yes/no answers. (Do you believe in God? Do you believe in the Trinity? Do you believe Jesus died to propitiate for your sins? Except they use simpler words than propitiate. etc.)

I couldn't give a complete statement of faith if my life depended on it.

I understand this completely. There was nothing about the scenario in the OP that was handled correctly. The entire scenario happened in about 25 seconds.

 

[Magenta]

yes its true many go to church when friends and family ask u see. but this situation described by the op was someone who wanted to join, not just visiting u see.

What is wrong with joining, or wanting to join? Something has obviously drawn the woman, and I did not see anyone else being identified as a consort to her attendance in the OP. Are churches to be in the business of turning people away? I do not understand the distinction you make between joining and visiting. People do not have to believe to visit. Do they have to believe to join? I saw nothing about that in the OP. The type of church was not identified. However, it did seem a bit fishy that she was to join by way of a statement of faith, which was not asked for until after she was voted in...

 

[BillG]

Why on earth does the church expect believers to stand up and give some big testimony about their faith or how they came to Jesus.

I have known of a few people who didn’t want to get baptised because there was a pressure to give some great testimony.
My Son was one along with some others.

Pressure to say the right thing and not the wrong thing.

I just told them when asked “Why are you getting baptised today just say because I beleive in Jesus and made him my Lord”

That’s a statement of faith. Don’t really need to add anything more to that.

Acts 8:34-38


34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

 

[Depleted]

I think for me 2 issues arise here.

Firstly whether should someone be considered a member, when and why.

Secondly whether a memeber has to be a be a believer in order to be considered part of the church.

Our church does have an official membership list. The process if they want to come into membership then on a set day those who want to meet up with a leader. They explain what we are about and if they are happy with that then they are admitted into membership.

The reason I raise my second issue is because of the ministry I have in church.

Primarily it’s cominng alongside people who are not believers but want to know more along with those struggling in their Christian Walk.

Earlier this year I had the privilege of walking alongside a very mixed up man. He is bipolar, wished he was dead and so on.
Jesus was just a good man but he came to the conclusion that there seemed to be a disconnect with God, whichever God that was.

Cut a long story short I was so blessed and humbled to lead him to Jesus. Spent a couple of hours with him.
Told him his disconnect was Jesus because he didn’t beleive the claims of Jesus.

He placed his faith in Jesus, this man was on his knees and poured everything out. A broken man on his knees and prayed from his heart and beleive me what came out of his heart was vile. The lies of satan. And together we prayed against that.

When he got of his knees I saw a totally different man. I baptised him a month later.

There is a point to this.

He said something along the lines off “I just wanted to be loved and accepted, I wanted to ask questions, wanted to try to make sense of when I tried to comitt suicide and woke up I was angry that I was still alive”

A friend of his girlfriends told them to do the Alpha Course at our church. That’s how I got to know him.

Now what is amazing is that as he continued to come to our church he says that he felt part of the church.
Loved and accepted for who he was (in fact one day when we spoke he was very upset at the prospect that I And others would reject him if he didn’t become a Christian, I reassured him that was not the case, I loved him for him)

He Just Being loved and accepted as he was, no expectations placed on him then he felt part a FAMILY.

The Church is family even to those who are seeking a family. To be adopted by the Father.

Just so you know I’m not puffing up myself here. I was the last part of the walk.

When I was growing up there were 2-3 moms in the neighborhood that had no problems with a dozen neighborhood kids in their home and yard between after school and after dinner. The kids wandered into any of these houses for whatever reason. (Just to be with their friend, who was a child of this mom, look for kids to play with, or their moms were busy taking a sibling to a doctor's appointment, so they couldn't go home alone.) And if real Mom didn't make sure you were home for supper, we could even eat at that house.

BUT, when real Mom got home, and it was time to do homework, we went home. We may have lived with that family for the afternoon, even treated like family, ("Don't you think I'm here to clean your dirty dishes, Missy!"), but family was home.

Church is like that. It is a safe place to go when you just want to or if you need someone to take care of you, but it's not family until you are family. And family has a common base -- acceptable rules of conduct and expectations for each member, even if those expectations are different than others.

My church will take in anyone who wants in, but we do not adopt until that person becomes family. You gave that man what he needed when he needed it. He wasn't family yet. He was just a kid in the neighborhood. He became family when he was adopted into the family of Christ. That's when he became your family too.

 

[Amberlight]

Statement of faith ....

Just to say i believe in God his Son and Holy Spirit... is enough and person should be baptized in the spot and accepted to the Church.

 

[Magenta]

Why on earth does the church expect believers to stand up and give some big testimony about their faith or how they came to Jesus.

We are to be ready at all times to give an answer I admit it is a bit intimidating to give testimony as a new believer, but you have to start somewhere to become comfortable talking about what you believe and why, and doing so can give great comfort and inspiration to others in a way that edifies and helps them hold all the stronger to their own testimony and reasons for belief. It is one of the reasons why we are exhorted not to forsake fellowship.

 

[Depleted]

I understand this completely. There was nothing about the scenario in the OP that was handled correctly. The entire scenario happened in about 25 seconds.

I just scootchied up the statement of faith before the vote, so I changed it by a few seconds. lol

 

[Depleted]

Why on earth does the church expect believers to stand up and give some big testimony about their faith or how they came to Jesus.

I have known of a few people who didn’t want to get baptised because there was a pressure to give some great testimony.
My Son was one along with some others.

Pressure to say the right thing and not the wrong thing.

I just told them when asked “Why are you getting baptised today just say because I beleive in Jesus and made him my Lord”

That’s a statement of faith. Don’t really need to add anything more to that.

Acts 8:34-38


34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

You're not nuts. Preach gave an insane picture and is pretty much asking the same question.

 

[Depleted]

Statement of faith ....

Just to say i believe in God his Son and Holy Spirit... is enough and person should be baptized in the spot and accepted to the Church.

Why should they be baptized for believing the same thing Satan believes?

 

[dcontroversal]

When it comes to church and practices it seems to me that there is a fine line and narrow path that must be maintained....too many are one extreme or the other..meaning...some will accept anything and all things for the sake of numbers and money while others will drive some away by imposed legalistic traditions and practices.....Jesus was clear....where two or three are gathered in his name he is in the midst and he also said to let the tares and wheat grow together...he will have no problem seperating them at the end of the age. Having said that...there should be no problem with a church or pastor (under shepherd) seeking a biblical response from any and all who wish to join the ranks of a particular group (church). BEFORE Jesus called out his disciples they had been prepared and scrutinized by John the Baptist dia fruit meet for repentance and biblical immersion...........just saying

 

[notuptome]

If she is elect then she was predestined to join the church. Everyone should realize she must have been elect.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[MarcR]

(...if anything)

A lady goes forward to join the church (the pastor invited people to join). The pastor shakes her hand, and then announces she is coming to join the church by statement of faith.

So the church immediately votes to receive her by her statement of faith. Unanimous reception (for those who voted).

Then, the pastor, after she is voted in as a member, asks her what her statement of faith is.

She says "I just want to be a part of the church."

Um. OK.

What faith are you stating? [it should not be anything but: I trust in God's grace because of what Jesus did for me.]

 

[Magenta]

It may just as well have been a Kiwanis Club?

But... the Kiwanis Club was founded by Joseph Prance

 

[BillG]

When I was growing up there were 2-3 moms in the neighborhood that had no problems with a dozen neighborhood kids in their home and yard between after school and after dinner. The kids wandered into any of these houses for whatever reason. (Just to be with their friend, who was a child of this mom, look for kids to play with, or their moms were busy taking a sibling to a doctor's appointment, so they couldn't go home alone.) And if real Mom didn't make sure you were home for supper, we could even eat at that house.

BUT, when real Mom got home, and it was time to do homework, we went home. We may have lived with that family for the afternoon, even treated like family, ("Don't you think I'm here to clean your dirty dishes, Missy!"), but family was home.

Church is like that. It is a safe place to go when you just want to or if you need someone to take care of you, but it's not family until you are family. And family has a common base -- acceptable rules of conduct and expectations for each member, even if those expectations are different than others.

My church will take in anyone who wants in, but we do not adopt until that person becomes family. You gave that man what he needed when he needed it. He wasn't family yet. He was just a kid in the neighborhood. He became family when he was adopted into the family of Christ. That's when he became your family too.

Yes I agree with you.
The point I am trying to make is why does a person want to become part of your family?
Because you love them as part of your own family.
Yes family has basic rules.

Two nights ago a friend of my daughter who has mental health problems that basically causes a problem between her and her mother came to us. Her mother went off on one (her father is not interested in her at all) so her mum wasn't backing down neither was the daughter.

So two nights ago the daughter ends up in our house. She said when she arrived “I just wanted to come to the Gillan’s house, just be accepted”

But she knows whilst here this is how the Gillan’s work, and she accepts it.

Her mother is actually pleased that she can come here.
She admits that she has no idea what to do.

Both know we are Christians and now we have the opportunity to love the mother and the daughter.
Just being like Jesus.

In fact my wife and I prayed together for help.

The following day when the daughter went back home her mother apologised.
The daughter was dumbfounded because that was the first time she had ever said sorry.

As I said what I am trying to say is “This is what real family is all about, I will show you what it is all about” and of course the opportunity arises to display the family of God

 

[preacher4truth]

What faith are you stating? [it should not be anything but: I trust in God's grace because of what Jesus did for me.]

I don't understand your question above. Is the above basically what should have been posed to the woman?

 

[preacher4truth]

When I witnessed the scenario in the OP it became glaringly apparent why it has been said that the church contains a huge number of false converts. Not that I hadn't believed this before, it just became more real.