What's Wrong with This Picture...?
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Very true . Note when we delve deeper in to the concept of examining the faith of a new member or new believers. Some don’t understand. We are not saying goodbye your not welcome. No , those of us that are more mature will be able use this opportunity to come along side an assist these brothers and sisters helping them to mature an join the congregation. . The idea of examining is not out of I am better than you it is out of love that a shepherd has for his flock . The injured or very young are given the care needed before they join the rest .
Blessings
Bill
Blessings
Bill
And, by her statement, we have no idea if she is, or isn't of the ilk of PHart, wouldn't you say? Or if she is saved or not. We have absolutely no odea, but then you assume later on concerning her, that she has faith.
Thus my point for the OP.
I'd have to disagree, of course, because apparently she doesn't seem to have the correct answer. I also would not assume she is just having a hard time expressing her faith. That is assuming she does have faith brother.
What makes you feel she is converted by her statement? Would it perhaps be better to counsel her further concerning her faith, and not do this "on the spot?"
God bless you too brother!
Thus my point for the OP.
I'd have to disagree, of course, because apparently she doesn't seem to have the correct answer. I also would not assume she is just having a hard time expressing her faith. That is assuming she does have faith brother.
What makes you feel she is converted by her statement? Would it perhaps be better to counsel her further concerning her faith, and not do this "on the spot?"
God bless you too brother!
Okay I can agree with your point, "is she saved or isn't she save." Some people like to hang out around the church just for the benefits, exactly what Jesus said of all the hanger on's, they were in it for what they could get.
Got any easer questions.......
Got any easer questions.......
Thank God that God doesn't judge as harshly as the high minded soon to be humbled folks at the church preacher4truth attends. A church is not a a place for saints to gather rather it should be a place where those who are sick feel comfortable enough to be healed. Going to church saves no one, only Jesus saves and if a lost person can not attend a church or is shunned once they arrive how are they to hear the Word in the first place?
Wow. High minded and harsh, eh? Over concern for true conversion? How harsh, judgmental and what a terrible thing to do! Yes, this church should just allow any person to join, no matter their soul state.
Apparently in concern for ones true conversion you've called that judging, as if it were ugly to do so, and then offer a snide ad hominem response. Thanks for showing us all that you are so gracious and...oh... wait...never mind.
Apparently you're clueless as to what the church is and is made up of and it's not the lost. No one said the lost cannot attend church, you made up that false accusation.
What is wrong with you? Did you read the op? If so why are you accusing of things never implied? Try paying attention and stick to facts before you roll in judging and condemning, oh gracious example? Thanks.
Apparently in concern for ones true conversion you've called that judging, as if it were ugly to do so, and then offer a snide ad hominem response. Thanks for showing us all that you are so gracious and...oh... wait...never mind.
Apparently you're clueless as to what the church is and is made up of and it's not the lost. No one said the lost cannot attend church, you made up that false accusation.
What is wrong with you? Did you read the op? If so why are you accusing of things never implied? Try paying attention and stick to facts before you roll in judging and condemning, oh gracious example? Thanks.
Wow. High minded and harsh, eh? Over concern for true conversion? How harsh, judgmental and what a terrible thing to do! Yes, this church should just allow any person to join, no matter their soul state.
Apparently in concern for ones true conversion you've called that judging, as if it were ugly to do so, and then offer a snide ad hominem response. Thanks for showing us all that you are so gracious and...oh... wait...never mind.
Apparently you're clueless as to what the church is and is made up of and it's not the lost. No one said the lost cannot attend church, you made up that false accusation.
What is wrong with you? Did you read the op? If so why are you accusing of things never implied? Try paying attention and stick to facts before you roll in judging and condemning, oh gracious example? Thanks.
Apparently in concern for ones true conversion you've called that judging, as if it were ugly to do so, and then offer a snide ad hominem response. Thanks for showing us all that you are so gracious and...oh... wait...never mind.
Apparently you're clueless as to what the church is and is made up of and it's not the lost. No one said the lost cannot attend church, you made up that false accusation.
What is wrong with you? Did you read the op? If so why are you accusing of things never implied? Try paying attention and stick to facts before you roll in judging and condemning, oh gracious example? Thanks.
Perhaps I misunderstood the original op if so I am sorry. That said I would rather be clueless and attend a church who welcomes the worst of the worst with open arms than attend any church that has to vote anyone in. If that seems offensive or high minded I assure you it is not. I was the worst of the worst and even though Jesus saved me I was blessed to attend not one but three different churches that welcomed me graciously into their fold where I experienced the kind of love and acceptance only found at places where people think more highly of others than they do themselves.
If you think that is snide or ad hominem well, I guess we each have our own path to walk.
You did misunderstand it
Now you're making pretense. Your name calling and accusations were what was ad hominem. No one implied wicked sinners aren't welcome at church, not even remotely, and here you are still trying to imply that is my position and what I implied while acting like you're apologizing.
Now you're making pretense. Your name calling and accusations were what was ad hominem. No one implied wicked sinners aren't welcome at church, not even remotely, and here you are still trying to imply that is my position and what I implied while acting like you're apologizing.
Yeah..ok..I must say though, there seems to have been a drastic change going on...I really am shocked to see this change. But oh well...
Anyways, how about instead of continuing to make all these one verse wonders...why don't we just go ahead and play the whole album...
Matthew 12
[FONT="]33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.[/FONT]
[FONT="]35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.[/FONT]
[FONT="]36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.[/FONT]
[FONT="]37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Now do you want to also go around inspecting fruits and works, too...or should I, or should we just let God do that...cause I'm pretty sure that's saying God's going to be doing the judging on the day of judgement....Just saying[/FONT]
Anyways, how about instead of continuing to make all these one verse wonders...why don't we just go ahead and play the whole album...
Matthew 12
[FONT="]33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.[/FONT]
[FONT="]35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.[/FONT]
[FONT="]36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.[/FONT]
[FONT="]37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Now do you want to also go around inspecting fruits and works, too...or should I, or should we just let God do that...cause I'm pretty sure that's saying God's going to be doing the judging on the day of judgement....Just saying[/FONT]
All local church bodies have a form of Government, usually Elder Rule or Congregation Rule. Within the church leadership they eventually establish by laws. For example; not all but many churches will not allow a "New Believer" to participate in ministry for up to one year. The reason for this is "pride", "God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble." James4:6.
If you disagree with their church government and by laws then it is time to look for a new local body. If you disagree with the church's, "Statement of Faith" or "What we believe", its time to move on.
When you finally choose a local church and wish to stay as a member and minister in some capacity, you will usually have an interview at some point with church leadership (the Pastor), where you can give a, "Statement of Faith" or "what you believe." At that point the church body or leadership will vote you in or out. Of the churches that I have become involved with or served in ministry, there was always a "New Membership Class" offered. For new believers there was usually, (not always), a 12 week "Fundamentals of the Faith Class offered."
Our Pastor told the congregation a few weeks ago that there was a guy who came to see him one day, unannounced and not a member or attendee. He said he urgently needs money for his personal needs and he wants the Pastor to help him. He would not explain what his needs were and continued to pressure the Pastor for money because he said, "this is what the church is suppose to do."
The Pastor said, what the church is suppose to do is help you find a way to help you stand on your own 2 feet by finding, work, shelter, food and clothing, It is not the Church's responsibility to hand out money to whom ever walks through our door's. Then the Pastor asked him would you like us to help you out. Without a word the Pastor said he just turned around in a huff and walked out the door.
I agree again, the woman interested in "joining a local Body" should have been offered an opportunity to, "examine and share the Gospel" her testimony.
My wife and I are currently seeking a new church for fellowship, ministry and a place to worship Jesus, not an easy task.
God bless
If you disagree with their church government and by laws then it is time to look for a new local body. If you disagree with the church's, "Statement of Faith" or "What we believe", its time to move on.
When you finally choose a local church and wish to stay as a member and minister in some capacity, you will usually have an interview at some point with church leadership (the Pastor), where you can give a, "Statement of Faith" or "what you believe." At that point the church body or leadership will vote you in or out. Of the churches that I have become involved with or served in ministry, there was always a "New Membership Class" offered. For new believers there was usually, (not always), a 12 week "Fundamentals of the Faith Class offered."
Our Pastor told the congregation a few weeks ago that there was a guy who came to see him one day, unannounced and not a member or attendee. He said he urgently needs money for his personal needs and he wants the Pastor to help him. He would not explain what his needs were and continued to pressure the Pastor for money because he said, "this is what the church is suppose to do."
The Pastor said, what the church is suppose to do is help you find a way to help you stand on your own 2 feet by finding, work, shelter, food and clothing, It is not the Church's responsibility to hand out money to whom ever walks through our door's. Then the Pastor asked him would you like us to help you out. Without a word the Pastor said he just turned around in a huff and walked out the door.
I agree again, the woman interested in "joining a local Body" should have been offered an opportunity to, "examine and share the Gospel" her testimony.
My wife and I are currently seeking a new church for fellowship, ministry and a place to worship Jesus, not an easy task.
God bless
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