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G
Care to explain how you got that from this...??? :
Revelation 14:
[SUP]1[/SUP] And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. [SUP]2[/SUP] And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: [SUP]3[/SUP] And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. [SUP]4[/SUP] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. [SUP]5[/SUP] And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Please explain the "spiritual defilement" with women of those who were not virgins.
Revelation 14:
[SUP]1[/SUP] And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. [SUP]2[/SUP] And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: [SUP]3[/SUP] And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. [SUP]4[/SUP] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. [SUP]5[/SUP] And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Please explain the "spiritual defilement" with women of those who were not virgins.
Care to explain how you got that from this...??? :
Revelation 14:
[SUP]1[/SUP] And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. [SUP]2[/SUP] And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: [SUP]3[/SUP] And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. [SUP]4[/SUP] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. [SUP]5[/SUP] And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Please explain the "spiritual defilement" with women of those who were not virgins.
Revelation 14:
[SUP]1[/SUP] And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. [SUP]2[/SUP] And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: [SUP]3[/SUP] And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. [SUP]4[/SUP] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. [SUP]5[/SUP] And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Please explain the "spiritual defilement" with women of those who were not virgins.
1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication." 3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.
3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury." 4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. 6 Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. 7 In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, 'I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.' 8 Therefore her plagues will come in one day--death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.
We see that the woman represents the One World Religion and One World Government of Satan. This is what will be worshiped. IF you understand that sexual immortality and spiritual idolatry are often linked as symbolic of each other then you will understand what Christ was talking about here.
19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
Any time the word, "Woe" is used, it is warning of pending judgment. Christ is not cursing or judging literal pregnant and nursing mothers in the days to come. A child is a gift of God, not a curse. No woman can be responsible for being pregnant when those days come so Christ isn't talking literally here. Christ is discussing those who are pregnant in Satan's lies, the key one being the Rapture theory. It is this theory that Satan will use to deceive so many Christians, but that's a separate topic. Those nursing means they are feeding the lie by teaching and preaching it. Does this make sense?
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This is the key compare and contrast verse.
with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
The 144,000 won't do this. I can't tell you how long it took me to figure this out. I was thinking the 144K were literal virgins for many years.
If you can see this, it will open your eyes to so many more things that I know puzzled me for the longest time. Keep in mind, Christ is expecting to come back and find His bride, His virgin bride, not a bunch of beast worshiping fools. Our God is a jealous God. I know this seems obvious and well understood by everyone but what people don't get is how angry He will be at those who did not listen to His word and allowed themselves to be deceived.
If you agree with the interpretation of the virgin 144K let me know as the switch will turn on for you. We are in the days of Acts 2:17-18 my dear brother.
with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
The 144,000 won't do this. I can't tell you how long it took me to figure this out. I was thinking the 144K were literal virgins for many years.
If you can see this, it will open your eyes to so many more things that I know puzzled me for the longest time. Keep in mind, Christ is expecting to come back and find His bride, His virgin bride, not a bunch of beast worshiping fools. Our God is a jealous God. I know this seems obvious and well understood by everyone but what people don't get is how angry He will be at those who did not listen to His word and allowed themselves to be deceived.
If you agree with the interpretation of the virgin 144K let me know as the switch will turn on for you. We are in the days of Acts 2:17-18 my dear brother.
the TWO visions - which overlay each other (visions in pictures portray a spiritual reality)
The Victorious Lamb with His elect remnant (1st century) overlooking (from the heavenly realm) the scene on earth where the saints are still in conflict with the "beast".
it's already fulfilled, yet has the very same message of strength and hope for believers throughout the Ages - that Christ prevailed and prevails and those that are His overcome.
The Victorious Lamb with His elect remnant (1st century) overlooking (from the heavenly realm) the scene on earth where the saints are still in conflict with the "beast".
it's already fulfilled, yet has the very same message of strength and hope for believers throughout the Ages - that Christ prevailed and prevails and those that are His overcome.
Are you a preterits Zone? I know you don't believe in the Rapture but thought you were post trib for some reason.
The events of Revelation are indeed future. There is a gap in Daniel between Week 69 and Week 70. Right now it is looking like a 2000 year gap. But the end is coming very soon to a Jerusalem hill near you.
The events of Revelation are indeed future. There is a gap in Daniel between Week 69 and Week 70. Right now it is looking like a 2000 year gap. But the end is coming very soon to a Jerusalem hill near you.
S
I'm just guessing but maybe 2040 because its been 2000 years since christ died and in the pattern its always 40 usually.noah was in the ark 40 days jesus went without bread for 40 days.I'm totally not sure just a guess lol and maybe its years now so maybe 40 years because it has been way more than 40 days since christ died
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G
yut-oh, this is getting serious. The plain Word speaks for Himself, it's not some grrrrrrrrrrrrrAde B novel , LOL.
oh, nOoooooo, I'm using zone's siggy :O
And, now a Word from our Sponsor. * green wonders, is our Creator our Sponsor
I AM the King and I AM coming again.
Okee, the verdict is clear: praise God, praise God, He's coming for me. I believe Christ died for me.
[video=youtube;7LscdVVeTQc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LscdVVeTQc[/video]
The bible unmistakably describes the Rapture as two being in a field and one is gone and one is left working, that is WHAT it will be like WHEN the Son Of Man, who is Jesus Christ, comes again !!!!!!!!!!!! Like a twinkling of the eye, 11/16 of a second. Blink! Here. Church age over and the TRIBULATION TIMES BEGIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't be left behind , BE READY for His coming, NO ONE, and, I mean, NO ONE, but Him in heaven above, KNOWS the day AND the hour. And, don't forget the second . God knows. He is all and all
Be ready. THE KING IS COMING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There WILL be a 7-year time of Tribulation , Jacob's Troubles otherwise known as, and, it's going to be bad, bad, bad, time, for those who THEN, after the Rapture having happened, WILL be asked to TAKE the number of the beast. Do you want to go through this kind of torture AND DEATH, for NOT choosing the '666' MARK ? ? CHOOSE GOD RIGHT NOW and LIVE FOR HIM, LIVE FOR THE KING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
oh, nOoooooo, I'm using zone's siggy :O
And, now a Word from our Sponsor. * green wonders, is our Creator our Sponsor
I AM the King and I AM coming again.
Okee, the verdict is clear: praise God, praise God, He's coming for me. I believe Christ died for me.
[video=youtube;7LscdVVeTQc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LscdVVeTQc[/video]
The bible unmistakably describes the Rapture as two being in a field and one is gone and one is left working, that is WHAT it will be like WHEN the Son Of Man, who is Jesus Christ, comes again !!!!!!!!!!!! Like a twinkling of the eye, 11/16 of a second. Blink! Here. Church age over and the TRIBULATION TIMES BEGIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't be left behind , BE READY for His coming, NO ONE, and, I mean, NO ONE, but Him in heaven above, KNOWS the day AND the hour. And, don't forget the second . God knows. He is all and all
Be ready. THE KING IS COMING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There WILL be a 7-year time of Tribulation , Jacob's Troubles otherwise known as, and, it's going to be bad, bad, bad, time, for those who THEN, after the Rapture having happened, WILL be asked to TAKE the number of the beast. Do you want to go through this kind of torture AND DEATH, for NOT choosing the '666' MARK ? ? CHOOSE GOD RIGHT NOW and LIVE FOR HIM, LIVE FOR THE KING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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MATTHEW 24 [36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. [37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, [39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [40] Then SHALL TWO BE IN THE FIELD; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT.
So where shall they be taken to GreenNnice?
JEREMIAH 3 [13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the Lord. [14] Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you: and I WILL TAKE YOU ONE OF A CITY, AND TWO OF A FAMILY, AND I WILL BRING YOU TO ZION:
Married to you? Bride? Bridegroom? Obviously not heaven but to Zion for a 1000yr rest
So where shall they be taken to GreenNnice?
JEREMIAH 3 [13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the Lord. [14] Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you: and I WILL TAKE YOU ONE OF A CITY, AND TWO OF A FAMILY, AND I WILL BRING YOU TO ZION:
Married to you? Bride? Bridegroom? Obviously not heaven but to Zion for a 1000yr rest
If any of you rapturist can show me a scripture that flits us off to heaven at the 1Cor.15 event id love to see it. Lets think about it. This must be what the rapturist believe. When you die in Christ you immediately flit off to heaven. Then at the "rapture" you are yanked out of heaven, thrown in the ground, then resurrected and then brought back to heaven...all in the twinkling of an eye. YIKES!
I see you have affirm grasp of the situation. Absent from the body present with the Lord. Just when do we get out body which is like Christ's body. If our spirit is with Him we must be reunited with our body at some point in time.
Perhaps you are not going to go into His presence until your body is resurrected?? Hmmm
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Perhaps you are not going to go into His presence until your body is resurrected?? Hmmm
For the cause of Christ
Roger
When we are "all changed" of course.
1COR.15 [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] for this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 CORINTHIANS 10[1] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all OUR FATHERS were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they DRANK OF THAT SPIRITUAL ROCK that followed them: and THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST.
Will Job be amoung the dead in Christ who will be “changed” at the 1Cor.15 event? Yes, according to scripture. Job also tells us when that change shall come.
JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.
Job says after the heavens be no more, then shall his "change" come
2PET.3 [10] But THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS AWAY with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up
Job says his "change" will come when the heavens be no more. Above scripture tells us the heavens be no more at the coming of the Day of the Lord. Which occurs {according to scripture} after the great tribulation. So notuptome, I know youll go on believing Darby that your "change" will occur 7 yrs before the Day of the Lord....While I will believe Job.
1COR.15 [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] for this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 CORINTHIANS 10[1] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all OUR FATHERS were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they DRANK OF THAT SPIRITUAL ROCK that followed them: and THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST.
Will Job be amoung the dead in Christ who will be “changed” at the 1Cor.15 event? Yes, according to scripture. Job also tells us when that change shall come.
JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.
Job says after the heavens be no more, then shall his "change" come
2PET.3 [10] But THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS AWAY with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up
Job says his "change" will come when the heavens be no more. Above scripture tells us the heavens be no more at the coming of the Day of the Lord. Which occurs {according to scripture} after the great tribulation. So notuptome, I know youll go on believing Darby that your "change" will occur 7 yrs before the Day of the Lord....While I will believe Job.
ACTS 2
[29] Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day......
[34] For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, [35] Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Seems David did not ascend into heaven. Why?
[29] Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day......
[34] For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, [35] Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Seems David did not ascend into heaven. Why?
1 COR.15 [18] Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.[19] If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.[20] But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.[21] For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.[22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.[23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.[24] Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
Could it be David is sleeping? Nothing about being in heaven before the resurrection of the dead. Why?
Could it be David is sleeping? Nothing about being in heaven before the resurrection of the dead. Why?
D
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Jesus is coming back after the antichrist is revealed and sets himself up as God in the temple at Jerusalem and tries to get the whole world to worship him. This signals the start of the Great tribulation as Jesus said.
24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
So Jesus comes back after the great tribulation. So what we have to watch for are signs of the rise of the antichrist and signs that the great tribulation is almost upon us. Once we're in the great tribulation we can start watching for Jesus' return.
For those who quote the verse, "we are not appointed to wrath", you're right. We are not appointed to wrath. But the great tribulation is not the wrath of God. The great tribulation is when the church is being persecuted by the antichrist who is possessed by the devil. The wrath of God is when God pours out His wrath upon the wicked, which does happen after the great tribulation and after Jesus comes back to rapture and resurrect His children.
If we're going to be raptured out of this world before the great tribulation then why does Jesus tell us, His children, to flee into the wilderness to hide out from the antichrist during the great tribulation. And in Revelations it says:
12:6 And the woman (the church) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
There's only one group of people in the entire world who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus and that's born again Christians. so if the Christians are raptured out before the great tribulation, who are all these people who are being persecuted by the devil during the great tribulation. The answer is of course that Christians are going to be going through the great tribulation and that Jesus' second coming is after the great tribulation.
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Jesus is coming back after the antichrist is revealed and sets himself up as God in the temple at Jerusalem and tries to get the whole world to worship him. This signals the start of the Great tribulation as Jesus said.
24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
So Jesus comes back after the great tribulation. So what we have to watch for are signs of the rise of the antichrist and signs that the great tribulation is almost upon us. Once we're in the great tribulation we can start watching for Jesus' return.
For those who quote the verse, "we are not appointed to wrath", you're right. We are not appointed to wrath. But the great tribulation is not the wrath of God. The great tribulation is when the church is being persecuted by the antichrist who is possessed by the devil. The wrath of God is when God pours out His wrath upon the wicked, which does happen after the great tribulation and after Jesus comes back to rapture and resurrect His children.
If we're going to be raptured out of this world before the great tribulation then why does Jesus tell us, His children, to flee into the wilderness to hide out from the antichrist during the great tribulation. And in Revelations it says:
12:6 And the woman (the church) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
There's only one group of people in the entire world who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus and that's born again Christians. so if the Christians are raptured out before the great tribulation, who are all these people who are being persecuted by the devil during the great tribulation. The answer is of course that Christians are going to be going through the great tribulation and that Jesus' second coming is after the great tribulation.