Where did the idea that the soul is immortal originate?

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danschance

Guest
#41
So you claim the story of the rich mand and Lazarus is a parable.

1) Can you show me another parable where it mentions a name of a person?

2) Parables teach kingdom concepts. Which concept is being taught in this "parable"?

3) If the soul does not survive death of the body, then why is jesus saying a "parable" about the soul surviving death?

4) Are you not simply twisting the scriptures?
 
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danschance

Guest
#42
The smoke of their torment: They will be burned up, become stubble, become ashes,, naturally the smoke from all of this will rise and dissapate into the atmosphere. The smoke from any fire does the same thing,, rises and disapates into the atmosphere.
Unforunatley, you have only discussed a portion of a scripture. Here is that Scripture in it's entirity:

“the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night” Revelation 14:11

So in this scripture we see 3 elements:
1) The smoke of their torment. This implies they are on fire and in torment.
2 "Forever and ever" You failed to mention this part. It clealry shows this torment does not end.
3) "No rest day or night" Again we see it emphasized again that this does not end. It never mentions any relief or ceasing of torment.


Were you simply ignoring the parts that clearly describe torment with out end?
 
May 24, 2013
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#43
Unforunatley, you have only discussed a portion of a scripture. Here is that Scripture in it's entirity:

“the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night” Revelation 14:11

So in this scripture we see 3 elements:
1) The smoke of their torment. This implies they are on fire and in torment.
2 "Forever and ever" You failed to mention this part. It clealry shows this torment does not end.
3) "No rest day or night" Again we see it emphasized again that this does not end. It never mentions any relief or ceasing of torment.


Were you simply ignoring the parts that clearly describe torment with out end?
Nope, Wasn't ignoring them. And you know I wasn't. You seem to be stuck on making sure the wicked are kept alive forever and ever.

Why you associate the reward of the rightous with that of the wicked is beyond me. Nowhere does the bible say the reward of the wicked is eternal life. Not anywhere.. I suppose you can make that claim by picking and choosing verses that may suppor that idea. But, if you take precept upon precept, you can only come up with one thing.. The reward of the wicked is death. Eternal Death!

If you want to believe the reward of the wicked is eternal life in the lake of fire, go ahead. But here is somthing you cannot do. Tell me where the Lake of fire and all the wicked will be suffering at for all eternity. If you say this earth,, I say, God will make a new earth, for the former things will pass away. So, again, you are stuck.

God's purpose is that hell will destroy the devil and all sin and sinners and make the world safe for eternity. One sinner, if left on this planet, would be a deadly virus forever threatening the universe. It is God's plan to isolate sin and blot it out of existence for all time.
An eternal hell of torment would perpetuate and immortalize sin and sinners. And incidently, no one will be in heaven because he feared hell. people are saved because they love and obey Christ.

"for yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be.....The enemies of the Lord....shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away" (Psalm 37:10,20)
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#44
Your first premise was false: Luke 8:55

"Then her spirit returned and she arose immediately. And He commanded that she be given something to eat."

What was the "spirit" that came back? It was nothing more than the breath of life.
Wrong. . .that is your own invention, and has absolutely no Biblical basis.

Time to revisit Lk 8:55.

Only if the Holy Spirit (pneuma) is simply breathed air can the spirit of the girl (pneuma) simply be the "breath of life."

The Greek of the text does not allow her spirit (pneuma) to be simply her breath (pnoe),

and nowhere in the NT is "spirit" ever used of "breath."

It is your premise that is false here.

So all ten of these Scriptures with which you are in disagreement are still on the table unaddressed:

Flagrant posturing is a poor substitute for addressing the Scriptures here.
If you expect to be taken seriously, you must address these.
Failure to do so simply shows you are not serious, you are just venting.

1) We see the living (immortal) spirit return to the body in Lk 8:55.

2) Then there is what Jesus said:

Mt 22:31-32 - "In the account of the bush (Lk 20:37-38), have you not read what God said to you, 'I am (present tense) the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Two hundred years after the death of the patriarchs, God declared he is (present tense) the God of the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Ex 3:6). Since he is (present tense) the God only of the living, and not the God of the dead, what part of the patriarchs are still living?

Lk 16:22-26 - "
The time came when the beggar man died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. . .he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to. . .cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
But Abraham replied. . .'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

Jesus presented the rich man in hell, with he and Abraham conversing with one another after their deaths.
So if their bodies are dead, what parts of them are conversing with each other?

Lk 8:51 - "If anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

Well, all those to whom Jesus spoke those words are now dead.
And God told Adam that the day he ate of the fruit he would die, but he lived for centuries.

So what died, and what did not die?

Jn 5:24 - "Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal llife. . .he has crossed over from death to life."

So what was dead? . . .it wasn't their bodies.
From what death did they cross over?


3) We find the same thing in the epistles:

1Jn 3:14 - "We know we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. . .no murderer has eternal life in him."

Again, what was dead? . . .it wasn't their bodies.
From what death did they pass?

Col 2:13 - "When you were dead in your sins. . .God made you alive with Christ."

Eph 2:1,3 - "You were dead in your transgressions and sins. . .by nature objects of wrath."

Again, what was dead? It wasn't their bodies.

Php 1:23 - "I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ which is better by far, but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."

The NT plainly states that when believers die, they are with Christ, apart from their body.

So what part of them is with Christ, apart from their body?


Heb 12:18, 22-24 - "You have not come to a mountain that is burning with fire. . .You have come to Mount Zion. . .You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant. . ."

The NT reveals that the spirits of former righteous believers (e.g., Abel and Noah, vv.4, 7) are immortal
and are waiting for the resurrection.

You've got some reckoning to do with the Scriptures if you expect to be taken seriously, and not as an amateur.
They are on your table to deal with it. Not mine.
You have not addressed the Scriptures presented to you at your very first posting.

Your subsequent responses only set the Scriptures against themselves, failing to reconcile them.

Therefore, you are not to be taken seriously, you just want to dogamatize.

Q.E.D.
 
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#45
You have not addressed the Scriptures presented to you at your very first posting.

Your subsequent responses only set the Scriptures against themselves, failing to reconcile them.

Therefore, you are not to be taken seriously, you just want to dogamatize.

Q.E.D.
Lol,,I set the scriptures against themselves???? That's funny. I'm not smart enough to set the scriptures against themselves. Nor can Satan. Because if he could, he would have done so already. it is impossible for the scriptures to contradict themselves.. lol.

I'm surprised that you haven't presented the argument of the theif on the cross next to Jesus..lol,,

Hey, did you know that the Bible says Sodom was destroyed with "eternal fire"????? Is Sodom still burning today? Can we see the smoke emiting from Sodom? The answer is No to both questions.

It is not the fire that is eternal. It is the consequences of that fire that are eternal.

Thanks for the chat.. Hope you don't you get too upset with me. I realize I teach about some very controversial subjects. I surely don't intend to insult anybody. But I will not ever compromise the Truth. I know what is to come.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#46
Lol,,I set the scriptures against themselves???? That's funny. I'm not smart enough to set the scriptures against themselves. Nor can Satan. Because if he could, he would have done so already. it is impossible for the scriptures to contradict themselves.. lol.

I'm surprised that you haven't presented the argument of the theif on the cross next to Jesus..lol,,

Hey, did you know that the Bible says Sodom was destroyed with "eternal fire"????? Is Sodom still burning today? Can we see the smoke emiting from Sodom? The answer is No to both questions.

It is not the fire that is eternal. It is the consequences of that fire that are eternal.

Thanks for the chat.. Hope you don't you get too upset with me. I realize I teach about some very controversial subjects. I surely don't intend to insult anybody. But I will not ever compromise the Truth. I know what is to come.
You don't teach anything when you don't address the relevant Scriptures.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#48
Did Jesus refer to death as a sleep? He did when he was referring to Lazarus, whom He raised.

John 11:11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that i may wake Him up."
Then His disiples said , "Lord , if he sleeps he will get well." However Jesus spoke of his death but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
Then Jesus said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead."

I am a 7th day Adventist,,but I do beleive that the Jehovahs witnesses have it right when it comes to the state of the dead.
Sorry to hear that. If you won't heed what the scriptures teach you will one day stand before the great white throne judgment and give an account of what you rejected from Gods word.
Interestingly enough they also said to Jesus that he stinketh in reference to Lazarus. Not only was his body dead it was beginning to decompose. Jesus restored Lazarus physically and reunited his soul with his body.
Now what are you going to do with your sin problem? All men are sinners and all men die because of sin. Will you be dead twice or will you hear the Lord when He says he that believeth on Me though he were dead yet shall he live? John 11:25 You will never understand the bible until you trust Christ to save you from your sins.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Roger
 
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HollyLoree

Guest
#49
You don't teach anything when you don't address the relevant Scriptures.
Oh, the ones he presented are irrelevant? Which scriptures are irrelevant? The one's you don't like? His point is this. If you take the verses you've presented in Revelation literally, and do not take the original Hebrew meanings for the original words used into account, you have a Bible that contradicts itself massively. And you just ignore that constantly. The Lazarus story was a parable. Because other parables didn't use names doesn't prove a thing. People who want to people in never ending torment use just about anything to support they're position, relevant or not. The fact is, you're pushing a false teaching. Jesus had been telling parables in a row when He got to the Lazurus parable. How bout you study up on that? There are no irrelevant scriptures, and that's just the point! You want to claim the Bible doesn't contradict itself, then don't make claims that make it contradict itself! Like he said, the Bible says our enemies will be ashes beneath our feet. It also says Sodom and Gomorreah are example of how the world will be destroyed after the judgement. There tons of other verses too. You just choose to ignore them. You obviously also choose to look up the Hebrew word that was translated into the English word eternity. The Hebrew word implied duration, as in "for an age". How bout checking out a good study of the other side for a change? Oh yeah. I've had this exact debate with you before. I posted excellent sites. You never looked at a one. You REFUSE to consider the possibility that you might be wrong, yet you call the other guy a heretic and a false teacher. And the truth is, you are that. You teach a false doctrine. Whether or not the entire orthodox Christian world teaches this or not does not make it true. In fact, usually the majority is wrong in scriptures. That's the case with this too.
 
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#50
Sorry to hear that. If you won't heed what the scriptures teach you will one day stand before the great white throne judgment and give an account of what you rejected from Gods word.
Interestingly enough they also said to Jesus that he stinketh in reference to Lazarus. Not only was his body dead it was beginning to decompose. Jesus restored Lazarus physically and reunited his soul with his body.
Now what are you going to do with your sin problem? All men are sinners and all men die because of sin. Will you be dead twice or will you hear the Lord when He says he that believeth on Me though he were dead yet shall he live? John 11:25 You will never understand the bible until you trust Christ to save you from your sins.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Roger
Your post made absolutley no sense at all. You provided nothing that would make a point either way. You actually said nothing. Nothing at all.
 
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HollyLoree

Guest
#51
Sorry to hear that. If you won't heed what the scriptures teach you will one day stand before the great white throne judgment and give an account of what you rejected from Gods word.
Interestingly enough they also said to Jesus that he stinketh in reference to Lazarus. Not only was his body dead it was beginning to decompose. Jesus restored Lazarus physically and reunited his soul with his body.
Now what are you going to do with your sin problem? All men are sinners and all men die because of sin. Will you be dead twice or will you hear the Lord when He says he that believeth on Me though he were dead yet shall he live? John 11:25 You will never understand the bible until you trust Christ to save you from your sins.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Roger

What in the world did this have to do with anything?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#52
Oh, the ones he presented are irrelevant? Which scriptures are irrelevant? The one's you don't like? His point is this. If you take the verses you've presented in Revelation literally, and do not take the original Hebrew meanings for the original words used into account, you have a Bible that contradicts itself massively. And you just ignore that constantly. The Lazarus story was a parable. Because other parables didn't use names doesn't prove a thing. People who want to people in never ending torment use just about anything to support they're position, relevant or not. The fact is, you're pushing a false teaching. Jesus had been telling parables in a row when He got to the Lazurus parable. How bout you study up on that? There are no irrelevant scriptures, and that's just the point! You want to claim the Bible doesn't contradict itself, then don't make claims that make it contradict itself! Like he said, the Bible says our enemies will be ashes beneath our feet. It also says Sodom and Gomorreah are example of how the world will be destroyed after the judgement. There tons of other verses too. You just choose to ignore them. You obviously also choose to look up the Hebrew word that was translated into the English word eternity. The Hebrew word implied duration, as in "for an age". How bout checking out a good study of the other side for a change? Oh yeah. I've had this exact debate with you before. I posted excellent sites. You never looked at a one. You REFUSE to consider the possibility that you might be wrong, yet you call the other guy a heretic and a false teacher. And the truth is, you are that. You teach a false doctrine. Whether or not the entire orthodox Christian world teaches this or not does not make it true. In fact, usually the majority is wrong in scriptures. That's the case with this too.
There are two deaths. The first is physical the second is spiritual. All men die spiritually when they sin and they all sin. They live physically but are dead spiritually. That is corrected when men are born again spiritually through Christ. They will still die physically but they are alive forever spiritually. Those who remain dead spiritually and die physically will stand before the great white throne judgment spoken of in Rev 20. Now God has shown fire that destroys the physical in Sodom and He has shown fire that burns and does not destroy the physical in the burning bush. God by His very nature can do as His righteousness demands. God is wholly justified by His righteousness to pour out His holy wrath upon sin. If man will not forsake his sin he will bear the wrath of God upon himself. Remember that hell and the lake of fire was not created for man but for the devil and his angels. If you go there you must first tread the blood of Christ underfoot. Salvation is by grace so that all may partake on an equal basis. Only the rebellious will of man sends him to eternal condemnation. John 3:19 make that clear.


For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#53
What in the world did this have to do with anything?
Sorry you have to ask. The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit they are foolishness to him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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HollyLoree

Guest
#54
Sorry you have to ask. The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit they are foolishness to him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Apparently you are unnatural? My relationship is with Jesus Christ. I'm sorry you make no sense but pretend to speak in some heavenly language. It's nothing more than a lie. Those who speak for God speak in plain English. Because you can't be understood has nothing to do with your speaking truth. Then again, it actually might. But this is not a salvation issue. This is a matter of understanding God's word correctly. However, this false teaching does make God look bad, so obviously, that's very bad. I'm posting a site that covers the belief that the Lazurus parable was, in fact, a parable. You're not doing anything for the cause of Christ when you teach a lie. In fact, you're doing damage to the cause of Christ.

Abraham's Bosom:The Parable;The Rich Man; Lazarus;The Deaths of the Rich Man and Lazarus;Abraham's Bosom; Lazarus In Abraham's Bosom; The Rich Man In Torment; The Great Gulf
 
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HollyLoree

Guest
#55
There are two deaths. The first is physical the second is spiritual. All men die spiritually when they sin and they all sin. They live physically but are dead spiritually. That is corrected when men are born again spiritually through Christ. They will still die physically but they are alive forever spiritually. Those who remain dead spiritually and die physically will stand before the great white throne judgment spoken of in Rev 20. Now God has shown fire that destroys the physical in Sodom and He has shown fire that burns and does not destroy the physical in the burning bush. God by His very nature can do as His righteousness demands. God is wholly justified by His righteousness to pour out His holy wrath upon sin. If man will not forsake his sin he will bear the wrath of God upon himself. Remember that hell and the lake of fire was not created for man but for the devil and his angels. If you go there you must first tread the blood of Christ underfoot. Salvation is by grace so that all may partake on an equal basis. Only the rebellious will of man sends him to eternal condemnation. John 3:19 make that clear.


For the cause of Christ
Roger
Yes, there are two deaths. The second death happens after the resurrection of the wicked dead, who then stand before the judgement, are sentenced and then thrown into the lake of fire with the devil and his angels. This entire earth will be that lake of fire. Remember how the earth will be destroyed by fire at the last judgement? This is the hell fire we always talk about. But it will burn up everything, leaving nothing behind. Then God will make a new heaven and a new earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:12-17

New King James Version (NKJV)


13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.[a]

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

The spirit that quickens a dead body to life is the breath of life. That is not the consciousness. The consciousness is that which sleeps in Jesus. Remember, when Stephen was stoned, he first saw Christ, and then he fell asleep, scriptures say.
 
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#56
the 'immortality' of the soul has been regarded as pretty much self evident by practically every culture since the beginning of time...
No - it was an idea by Greek Philosophers and other pagans.
It was what God taught his chosen people would happen and should be resisted/ignored.

The church of Rome got many ideas from those taught in alexandrai - and they studied the works of the Bible in equal measure to the works of Greek philosophy.

That's where your ideas of 'immortality of the soul' come from. Not from the Bible.

The bible even says we should be scared of nothing but the one that can destroy the soul.
soul = flesh + spirit (Genesis)
spirit = the breath of God

Only God can destroy the soul - we all die because God has decided we should.
The flesh corrupts - the breath of God goes back to God (and He knows all about us so He can resurrect us come the day of resurrection).

If people don't believe in the day of resurrection then what gospel do they believe in? Not the one Jesus and Paul and Peter and John talked of surely.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
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#57
My understanding is "hell" can be two-fold. In one respect is in the grave. In another respect some may consider "hell' to be the place of punishment for the wicked. I consider that place to be called the "lake of fire". Which is nothing more than the earth set ablaze. That fire will accomplish two things: It will destroy the wicked and cleanse the earth. Then god will make things anew.

BTW,, Only God is immortal (1 Timothy 6:15-16)
Question for you Michael, if Hell is in the grave, like you claim it is, then why did the Lord Jesus Christ give such strong warnings about Hell in Mark 9:43-48?

The Lord said it would be better to pluck out your eye and enter into life maimed than having two hands to be case into Hell fire.

And by the way, everyone's body ends up in the grave once they die, except those who have their bodies cremated.

So Michael, your logic and reasoning are way off.

And how about your "lake of fire = the earth set ablaze" idea? I mean where do you get that idea from?

That is not taught at all in the Scriptures.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#58
Yes, there are two deaths. The second death happens after the resurrection of the wicked dead, who then stand before the judgement, are sentenced and then thrown into the lake of fire with the devil and his angels. This entire earth will be that lake of fire. Remember how the earth will be destroyed by fire at the last judgement? This is the hell fire we always talk about. But it will burn up everything, leaving nothing behind. Then God will make a new heaven and a new earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:12-17

New King James Version (NKJV)


13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.[a]

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

The spirit that quickens a dead body to life is the breath of life. That is not the consciousness. The consciousness is that which sleeps in Jesus. Remember, when Stephen was stoned, he first saw Christ, and then he fell asleep, scriptures say.
Well the new heavens and the new earth are after the millennial reign of Christ. 1 Thess 4 is when the Lord comes for His church. Two separate events.
Both hell and death are cast into the lake of fire. The devil and all his crew are there as well. The redeemed do not appear before the great white throne judgment only the condemned.
Let us remember that we are dealing with an old English translation of the original manuscripts. Fell asleep and asleep in the Lord are nothing more than linguistic expressions of physical death. The breath of life as seen in Gen 2:7 is where man became a living soul. this is clearly different from the creation of the animals which are alive but not living souls. Man in the likeness and image of God incorporates the eternal nature of man's soul. God said that all souls are His and that they return to Him.
I can understand how some can wish for annihilation of the soul. But to believe God and conceive of eternal condemnation without a clear and present hope of eternal life well they should be terrified. Heb 10:29

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
May 24, 2013
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#59
Well the new heavens and the new earth are after the millennial reign of Christ. 1 Thess 4 is when the Lord comes for His church. Two separate events.
Both hell and death are cast into the lake of fire. The devil and all his crew are there as well. The redeemed do not appear before the great white throne judgment only the condemned.
Let us remember that we are dealing with an old English translation of the original manuscripts. Fell asleep and asleep in the Lord are nothing more than linguistic expressions of physical death. The breath of life as seen in Gen 2:7 is where man became a living soul. this is clearly different from the creation of the animals which are alive but not living souls. Man in the likeness and image of God incorporates the eternal nature of man's soul. God said that all souls are His and that they return to Him.
I can understand how some can wish for annihilation of the soul. But to believe God and conceive of eternal condemnation without a clear and present hope of eternal life well they should be terrified. Heb 10:29

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Instead of posting a bunch of scripture to back my position, I will tell you with my own words what will occur:

The Mark of the Beast (sunday observance) will be enforced. Satan will appear as a man and claim to be Christ. Nearly all will believe him.The death decree will go out to all who refuse the Mark of the Beast. With the death decree in place, Satan will attempt to rid the earth of Gods Commandment keeping people. Jesus will appear just before the Remnant is about to be killed.
At the Coming of Christ, the saved, both dead & alive shall meet Jesus in the AIR! Then we go to heaven and we shall spend 1000 years in heaven. Our work for that 1000 years is judging the cases of the wicked. After the 1000 years is finished we shall return to the earth with the Holy City Jerusalem. Satan has been left on earth for 1000 years with nobody to tempt. Jesus will raise the wicked. Satan will marshal them into surrounding the Holy City. He will convince them that the Holy City can be taken from the Saints. But, instead fire falls upon them and they are devoured and turned to ash. Then, God will make a new heavens and new earth,, and those safe inside the Holy City will be able to watch God create this planet anew!
That's my short version. Real short.

On the horizen is a religious movement. And it will start right here in the United Sates. Most people believe putting prayer back in public schools is a good idea. I beleive prayer will be placed back into public schools. Then men will claim this,,"we now have God back in our classrooms,, we should set an example for our youth. Let us observe Sunday". And everybody (christians) will think that is a great idea. Not to mention that the Moral decline of our nation & the disasters that follow will be blamed on the desecration of sunday. Men will claim that if we observe Sunday and make laws to enforce it, God will stop these terrible judgments that are striking the earth.

Ofcourse there will be a small group (remnant) that will refuse to accept the Mark of the Beast, and these will be blamed for the disasters that strike earth. Satan will incite men to kill those who keep the Commandments of God & faith of Jesus.

So, there will be no secret rapture in which millions suddenly disappear. Nope. The church will be here til the last day. And everybody on the planet will KNOW Jesus is here. For the earth shall shake and the earth shall be a total wreck at the Coming of the Lord!
 
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#60
The original-language terms (Hebrew, ne´phesh; Greek., psy·khe´ as used in the Scriptures show “soul” to be a person, an animal, or the life that a person or an animal enjoys.

Ne´phesh evidently comes from a root meaning “breathe” and in a literal sense ne´phesh could be rendered as “a breather.” Koehler and Baumgartner’s Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros (Leiden, 1958, p. 627) defines it as: “the breathing substance, making man a[nd] animal living beings Gn 1, 20, the soul (strictly distinct from the greek notion of soul) the seat of which is the blood Gn 9, 4f Lv 17, 11 Dt 12, 23: (249 X)…soul = living being, individual, person.”

More recently, when The Jewish Publication Society of America issued a new translation of the Torah, or first five books of the Bible, the editor-in-chief, H. M. Orlinsky of Hebrew Union College, stated that the word “soul” had been virtually eliminated from this translation because, “the Hebrew word in question here is ‘Nefesh.’” He added: “Other translators have interpreted it to mean ‘soul,’ which is completely inaccurate. The Bible does not say we have a soul. ‘Nefesh’ is the person himself, his need for food, the very blood in his veins, his being.”-The New York Times, October 12, 1962.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia says: “Nepes [ne´phesh] is a term of far greater extension than our ‘soul,’ signifying life (Ex 21.23; Dt 19.21) and its various vital manifestations: breathing (Gn 35.18; Jb 41.13[21]), blood [Gn 9.4; Dt 12.23; Ps 140(141).8], desire (2 Sm 3.21; Prv 23.2). The soul in the O[ld] T[estament] means not a part of man, but the whole man-man as a living being. Similarly, in the N[ew] T[estament] it signifies human life: the life of an individual, conscious subject (Mt 2.20; 6.25; Lk 12.22-23; 14.26; Jn 10.11, 15, 17; 13.37).”-1967, Vol. XIII, p. 467.

The Roman Catholic translation, The New American Bible, in its “Glossary of Biblical Theology Terms” (pp. 27, 28), says: “In the New Testament, to ‘save one’s soul’ (Mk 8:35) does not mean to save some ‘spiritual’ part of man, as opposed to his ‘body’ (in the Platonic sense) but the whole person with emphasis on the fact that the person is living, desiring, loving and willing, etc., in addition to being concrete and physical.”-Edition published by P. J. Kenedy & Sons, New York, 1970.

The Greek-English lexicons give such definitions as “life,” and “the conscious self or personality as centre of emotions, desires, and affections,” “a living being,” and they show that even in non-Biblical Greek works the term was used “of animals.” Of course, such sources, treating as they do primarily of classical Greek writings, include all the meanings that the pagan Greek philosophers gave to the word, including that of “departed spirit,” “the immaterial and immortal soul,” “the spirit of the universe,” and “the immaterial principle of movement and life.” Evidently because some of the pagan philosophers taught that the soul emerged from the body at death, the term psy·khe´ was also applied to the “butterfly or moth,” which creatures go through a metamorphosis, changing from caterpillar to winged creature.-Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, revised by H. Jones, 1968, pp. 2026, 2027; Donnegan’s New Greek and English Lexicon, 1836, p. 1404.

The difficulty lies in the fact that the meanings popularly attached to the English word “soul” stem primarily, not from the Hebrew or Christian Greek Scriptures, but from ancient Greek philosophy, actually pagan religious thought. Greek philosopher Plato, for example, quotes Socrates as saying: “The soul,…if it departs pure, dragging with it nothing of the body,…goes away into that which is like itself, into the invisible, divine, immortal, and wise, and when it arrives there it is happy, freed from error and folly and fear…and all the other human ills, and…lives in truth through all after time with the gods.”-Phaedo, 80, D, E; 81, A.

The ancient Greek writers applied psy·khe´ in various ways and were not consistent, their personal and religious philosophies influencing their use of the term. Of Plato, to whose philosophy the common ideas about the English “soul” may be attributed (as is generally acknowledged), it is stated: “While he sometimes speaks of one of [the alleged] three parts of the soul, the ‘intelligible,’ as necessarily immortal, while the other two parts are mortal, he also speaks as if there were two souls in one body, one immortal and divine, the other mortal.”-The Evangelical Quarterly, London, 1931, Vol. III, p. 121, “Thoughts on the Tripartite Theory of Human Nature,” by A. McCaig.

The connotations that the English “soul” commonly carries in the minds of most persons are not in agreement with the meaning of the Hebrew and Greek words as used by the inspired Bible writers. This fact has steadily gained wider acknowledgment. Back in 1897, in the Journal of Biblical Literature (Vol. XVI, p. 30), Professor C. A. Briggs, as a result of detailed analysis of the use of ne´phesh, observed: “Soul in English usage at the present time conveys usually a very different meaning from נפש [ne´phesh] in Hebrew, and it is easy for the incautious reader to misinterpret.”

In view of such inconsistency in non-Biblical writings, it is essential to let the Scriptures speak for themselves, showing what the inspired writers meant by their use of the term psy·khe´, as well as by ne´phesh. Ne´phesh occurs 754 times in the Masoretic text of the Hebrew Scriptures, while psy·khe´ appears by itself 102 times in the Westcott and Hort text of the Christian Greek Scriptures, giving a total of 856 occurrences. This frequency of occurrence makes possible a clear concept of the sense that these terms conveyed to the minds of the inspired Bible writers and the sense their writings should convey to our mind. An examination shows that, while the sense of these terms is broad, with different shades of meaning, among the Bible writers there was no inconsistency, confusion, or disharmony as to man’s nature, as existed among the Grecian philosophers of the so-called Classical Period.