Where did the idea that the soul is immortal originate?

[danschance]

Did you know...

Seventh Day Adventists (SDA) Believe they are the only true church?
All other churches belong to Satan.

They consider Ellen G WHite's writings to be equal to the bible.

In the early days they believed Jesus was an angel and rejected the trinity.

Once you accept Christ, only your previous sins are forgiven. After that you must work for your salvation.

SDA believed Christ would return in 1843 and then changed the date to 1844, sort of like Harold Camping.

Later they claimed Christ returned "invisibly" in 1844.

The embarrassing false prophecies of Ellen G white are hidden, covered up or altered by the SDA.

People alive in 1856 would be translated into heaven at the secound coming of Christ.

In the early days SDA had more in common with Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses than mainstream Christianity.

SDA have the same heretical doctrines as JW's. (Soul Sleep, No Hell, invisible return of Christ and Jesus is the archangel Micheal)

Ellen G WHite also plagiarized Joseph SMith's writings and used his phrases often. 80% of her writings are not her own.

Ellen G White consulted the dead. Her dead husband appeared to her in a carriage and gave her advice which she took.

Ellen G WHite said "No meat eaters" will be translated into Heaven. This means your salvation is dependant on not eating meat.

"..if we subsist on the flesh of dead animals, we partake of their nature." Ellen G White.

Ellen G WHite's diet was to curb the male sex drive and masturbation.

"The secret vice" or masturbation according to White is responsible for rheumatoid arthritis, cancer, incontinence, poor vision, diabetes, heart palpitations and other health issues.

Ellen G WHite claimed the cure for the "secret vice" (masturbation), was to have a sitz bath at the coldest possible temp, while also heating the feet and applying a cold towel to the forehead. Eating a cold cereal would also help.

Angels need Golden passes to enter or leave heaven.

Some human races are the result of an "amalgamation of human and animal".


Ellen G WHite's prophetic abilities are as phony as "monopoly money". Do not be fooled into believing this cult is from God..

 

[Elin]

soul = flesh + spirit (Genesis)
spirit = the breath of God

That has no Biblical basis, in either the OT or the NT.
That is an invention of your theology.

In the OT, the "breath (nishma) of life" (Ge 2:7, 7:22) is not the same as spirit (ruach).

Man's breath (nishma) of life is not his spirit (ruach) in the OT.
It is simply his breath, and his spirit is something else.

And in the NT, "spirit" (pneuma) is never the breath (pnoe) of life,
anymore than the Holy Spirit (pneuma) is simply breathed (pnoe) air.

 

[Ephraim]

If we look at Genesis 3:4 we see the Devils first lie to Eve.

"And the serpant said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die."


Even to this day, men believe Satans lie "ye shall not surely die".


Does 1 lie lead to another?

Once Satan decieved men into believing that the soul is immortal it was easy for him to further decieve men into also believing God has an Eternal Torture Chamber where He will house the wicked and torture them for all eternity.

So we see, that one lie does indeed lead to another.

The lie that God keeps the wicked alive in an Eternal torture chamber forever and ever, has caused countless people to turn away from God.

As we near the end, Satan shall decieve the world through 2 Great errors in Doctrine: The false teaching that the soul is immortal & sunday sacredness. They will go hand in hand.

It is not hard for Satan to make it appear as if our dead loved ones are alive. Satan has an accurate record of all who have ever lived. He knows their voices, their mannerisms and secret things that only his victim and the deceased know about.
Demons shall ape the dead in the last days. Satan has been readying the world to accept his lies. When dead loved ones appear to those who are still alive and talk with them, the living will believe what the demons say.

The demons will demand that Sunday be observed! That Sunday is the Sabbath and the Day we are to Observe! The Only Safeguard to satan and his last day deceptions is the Scripture!

If you have any questions. I will respond. It might take me a couple days.


I realize that most, if not all, will think I'm completely off my rocker.

Awesome, awesome, awesome initial question, and study of the words for soul and what they mean are actually really enlightening about it all.

Plus the fact that people rise in bodies, and what the word 'heaven' actually means. Kinda makes you think totally different about everything.

 

[Elin]

Danschance looks like you got nothing that is why you are critisizing and faultfinding rather than address the Bible. Read the parable before the parable of the rich man and tell me what it says. Because it provides the context to the parable of the rich man. You also need to understand who the gospel of Luke was written to.

Well, if you go back to chp 15, Jesus tells three parables there, in answer to the charge of the Pharisees in v.2 who were angered by the repentance of publicans and heathens.
The parables are about God finding something precious that was lost, his elect (Jn 6:39).

Then in chp 16, his first parable is of the shrewd business manager, whose meaning is that we should take care in this world to make sure we have a claim (inheritance, by faith) in the world to which we are going.

The Pharisees from 15:2 are still sneering at Jesus (16:4), when he then moves to address their unbelief, with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, whose meaning is that because they do not believe the teachings of the OT, which testified of Jesus, they would likewise not believe Jesus, even when he rose from the dead.

You also need to understand who the gospel of Luke was written to.

It is addressed specifically to Theophilus, but that does not narrow or limit its purpose.
It was also intended for the instruction of all among whom the book would be circulated.

It was written to strengthen the faith of all believers and to answer the attacks of unbelievers.
It was to replace misinformed reports about Jesus.
And he wanted to show, based on the teachings of Jesus, the place of the Gentile Christian in God's kingdom.

I'm not seeing how the parable of Lazarus and the rich man are changed in any way by the parables preceding it, or by to whom the gospel of Luke was addressed.

 

[Elin]

Doctrine I believe is not based on Ellen White it is based on the Bible so lets stick to the Bible. Answer this
Jude 1:7 KJV
(7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom and Gomorrha are an example of eternal fire. Sodom and Gomorrha are not burning now, so show from the Bible what is eternal fire in this verse? What is eternal punishment in this verse?

"are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

You need a better translation of the Greek.

It reads: "are set forth as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."

Examples are related, and not necessarily identical.

 

[Elin]

It looks like you people base doctrine on your own opinion. Talking about shallow. I asked you people to explain that verse I quoted with another verse showing what it means the they suffered eternal fire yet are not burning

Done. . .above.

 

[Georgiana]

"are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

You need a better translation of the Greek.

It reads: "are set forth as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."

Examples are related, and not necessarily identical.

That word "eternal" was translated from a word that meant "unquenchable," as in, nothing could put it out until everything was gone. Obviously Sodom and Gommorha are not still burning, unless in your imagination. That's what's important here. Yes, they represent an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal/unquenchable fire, the end result of which will be eternal. The very fact that these cities were entirely burnt up should be your proof right there. They are gone. Their punishment was eternal. They are ashes beneath our feet.

 

[Elin]

Still no Bible just opininion. The Bible does not need an interpreter So answer the text I quoted with another Bible text amd no opinion.

Answered with its own text, three above here.

 

[Georgiana]

Did you know...

Seventh Day Adventists (SDA) Believe they are the only true church?
All other churches belong to Satan.

They consider Ellen G WHite's writings to be equal to the bible.

In the early days they believed Jesus was an angel and rejected the trinity.

Once you accept Christ, only your previous sins are forgiven. After that you must work for your salvation.

SDA believed Christ would return in 1843 and then changed the date to 1844, sort of like Harold Camping.

Later they claimed Christ returned "invisibly" in 1844.

The embarrassing false prophecies of Ellen G white are hidden, covered up or altered by the SDA.

People alive in 1856 would be translated into heaven at the secound coming of Christ.

In the early days SDA had more in common with Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses than mainstream Christianity.

SDA have the same heretical doctrines as JW's. (Soul Sleep, No Hell, invisible return of Christ and Jesus is the archangel Micheal)

Ellen G WHite also plagiarized Joseph SMith's writings and used his phrases often. 80% of her writings are not her own.

Ellen G White consulted the dead. Her dead husband appeared to her in a carriage and gave her advice which she took.

Ellen G WHite said "No meat eaters" will be translated into Heaven. This means your salvation is dependant on not eating meat.

"..if we subsist on the flesh of dead animals, we partake of their nature." Ellen G White.

Ellen G WHite's diet was to curb the male sex drive and masturbation.

"The secret vice" or masturbation according to White is responsible for rheumatoid arthritis, cancer, incontinence, poor vision, diabetes, heart palpitations and other health issues.

Ellen G WHite claimed the cure for the "secret vice" (masturbation), was to have a sitz bath at the coldest possible temp, while also heating the feet and applying a cold towel to the forehead. Eating a cold cereal would also help.

Angels need Golden passes to enter or leave heaven.

Some human races are the result of an "amalgamation of human and animal".


Ellen G WHite's prophetic abilities are as phony as "monopoly money". Do not be fooled into believing this cult is from God..

You know what? Whoever Ellen White was, whether or not she believed a soul was immortal or not has nothing to do with whether or not the Bible preaches this. Instead of trying to prove that this person was a false prophet or whatever, how about you address the claims made about what the Bible actually says?

P.S. Besides the fact that as I quickly scan what you've written, I know for sure that a good share of what you've presented here are out-and-out lies. I'm not a 7th day Adv. myself, but I have friends that are. Either you've used an entirely uncredible internet site to get this information, or you've made most of it up. Just lost all your credibility in my book, bub.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Still no Bible just opininion. The Bible does not need an interpreter So answer the text I quoted with another Bible text amd no opinion. God can speak through the Bible, he does not need an interpreter. What you are doing is passing off your opinions as truth.

actually all they are doing is properly understanding the bible text you posted...there is no need to 'answer' it with another text...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Roger, the soul is not immortal. Souls die. God says that. "The soul that sinneth shall die" Ezekiel 18;4

-in context- this scripture is about God's disapproval of the practice of punishing children for their parents' sins and vice versa...it has -nothing whatsoever- to do with whether the soul is immortal or not...

it is so -easy- to understand the correct meaning of this verse that i am convinced that mortalists and annihilationists who quote it in their arguments are being just plain -dishonest-...

 

[Elin]

You know what? Whoever Ellen White was, whether or not she believed a soul was immortal or not has nothing to do with whether or not the Bible preaches this. Instead of trying to prove that this person was a false prophet or whatever, how about you address the claims made about what the Bible actually says?

Reminder: these are what have not been addressed from "what the Bible actually says:"

1) First, we see a living (immortal) spirit returning to its body in Lk 8:55.

2) Then there is what Jesus said:

Mt 22:31-32 - "In the account of the bush (Lk 20:37-38), have you not read what God said to you, 'I am (present tense) the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Two hundred years after the death of the patriarchs, God declared he is (present tense) the God of the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Ex 3:6). Since he is (present tense) the God only of the living, and not the God of the dead, what part of the patriarchs are still living?

Lk 16:22-26 - "The time came when the beggar man died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. . .he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to. . .cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
But Abraham replied. . .'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

Jesus presented the rich man in hell, with he and Abraham conversing with one another after their deaths.
If their bodies were dead, then what parts of them were conversing with each other?

Lk 8:51 - "If anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

Well, all those to whom Jesus spoke those words are now dead.
And God told Adam that the day he ate of the fruit he would die, but he lived for centuries.

So what did not die, and what did die?

Jn 5:24 - "Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal llife. . .he has crossed over from death to life."

So what was dead? . . .it wasn't their bodies.
From what death did they cross over?

3) We find the same thing in the epistles:

1Jn 3:14 - "We know we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. . .no murderer has eternal life in him."

Again, what was dead? . . .it wasn't their bodies.
From what death did they pass?

Col 2:13 - "When you were dead in your sins. . .God made you alive with Christ."

Eph 2:1,3 - "You were dead in your transgressions and sins. . .by nature objects of wrath."

Again, what was dead? It wasn't their bodies.

Php 1:23 - "I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ which is better by far, but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."

The NT plainly states that when believers die, they are with Christ, apart from their body.

So what part of them is with Christ, apart from their body?

Heb 12:18, 22-24 - "You have not come to a mountain that is burning with fire. . .You have come to Mount Zion. . .You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant. . ."

The NT reveals that the spirits of former righteous believers (e.g., Abel and Noah, vv.4, 7) are immortal
and are waiting for the resurrection.

These ten NT Scriptures and their questions, which were presented in response

to the very first post, are still on the table unaddressed.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

You know what? Whoever Ellen White was, whether or not she believed a soul was immortal or not has nothing to do with whether or not the Bible preaches this. Instead of trying to prove that this person was a false prophet or whatever, how about you address the claims made about what the Bible actually says?

P.S. Besides the fact that as I quickly scan what you've written, I know for sure that a good share of what you've presented here are out-and-out lies. I'm not a 7th day Adv. myself, but I have friends that are. Either you've used an entirely uncredible internet site to get this information, or you've made most of it up. Just lost all your credibility in my book, bub.

in formal logic it is not allowed...but in theology it is often useful to 'consider the source' and examine the origin of a particular idea including the person or denomination that invented it...this is a scriptural practice because of the principle that good trees do not produce bad fruit and bad trees do not produce good fruit...

before you bite into a doctrinal fruit...shouldn't you first know whether the tree that produced it is good or not?

about the information on seventh day adventism...i have researched this denomination...and while some of the allegations are unfamiliar to me...i do know that a lot of them -are- true...and he didn't even get into the -really- weird ones yet...

one thing you have to realize about your adventist friends is that adventists very often simply will not admit to what they actually believe... much like the mormons who are rarely willing to discuss their doctrines about 'kolob'...adventists tend to have a great emotional need to be accepted as a legitimate christian denomination and not a cult...so even in friendly conversations they tend to omit information about certain beliefs because those beliefs will often get them labelled as cultists...

 

[danschance]

Doctrine I believe is not based on Ellen White it is based on the Bible so lets stick to the Bible. Answer this
Jude 1:7 KJV
(7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom and Gomorrha are an example of eternal fire. Sodom and Gomorrha are not burning now, so show from the Bible what is eternal fire in this verse? What is eternal punishment in this verse?

True doctrine comes from God. False doctrine comes from many sources and in the case of Seventh Day Adventism, it comes from Ellen G White.

 

[notuptome]

True doctrine comes from God. False doctrine comes from many sources and in the case of Seventh Day Adventism, it comes from Ellen G White.

The gnostics have been around since the time of the apostles. Always those who think they know more or better than God. God already told them His ways are not our ways. Isa 55:8-9

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[danschance]

You know what? Whoever Ellen White was, whether or not she believed a soul was immortal or not has nothing to do with whether or not the Bible preaches this. Instead of trying to prove that this person was a false prophet or whatever, how about you address the claims made about what the Bible actually says?

P.S. Besides the fact that as I quickly scan what you've written, I know for sure that a good share of what you've presented here are out-and-out lies. I'm not a 7th day Adv. myself, but I have friends that are. Either you've used an entirely uncredible internet site to get this information, or you've made most of it up. Just lost all your credibility in my book, bub.

Which one or ones do you think are lies? Let me know and I will post where it can be found in her writings. I suggest you do some research before you call a brother a liar.

 

[Laodicea]

God gave believers the Holy Spirit to lead into the truth.
Why do you hate the eternal nature of the soul? If heaven is eternal why not the lake of fire? Why don't you just come out and tell me what you have against eternal condemnation? Why do you think your judgment is greater than Gods?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No where in all the Bible will you find the two words eternal and soul linked together. The Bible says that God's people are given immortality at the return of Jesus.
1 Corinthians 15:51-54 KJV
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Laodicea]

True doctrine comes from God. False doctrine comes from many sources and in the case of Seventh Day Adventism, it comes from Ellen G White.

Still trying to get off the subject, that is because you have nothing

 

[jerusalem]

the best way to understand the meaning of something someone said is to go to motive.....what possible motive could our God have for torturing anyone without ceasing. we as human beings condemn this type of behavior as the most despicable of behaviors. our God tells us to love our enemies. if you take a good look at jeremiah 19:5 it is very clear that this doctrine falls outside our God's character. the death penalty however is seen innumerable times showing our God's willingness to put an end to things not to drag them out indefinately

 

[Laodicea]

actually all they are doing is properly understanding the bible text you posted...there is no need to 'answer' it with another text...

The Bible interprets itself, what is unclear in one part is made clearer in another. If they are understanding correctly as you say then they can answer the text I put on with another