Why Catholicism isn't Christianity...

[Consumed]

Saved by Faith
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works lest any man should boast.

Justified by works
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

I said we believe in salvation by faith, not works. That's true 100%
Justifed is not the same word as saved! You should study justifed.
We are saved by faith and by faith with works we are justifed.
What I said is still completely accurate.

The works part I found to be not thinking we have to do this that the other to earn grace, but to love because then one becomes selfless more and more. We can have all the faith in the world but less we have love it's dead. Love will always lend a helping hand, go out of it's way, walk two miles instead of just one, give a drink of water to a antagonist, bless someone who curses them, love them even under duress.
My 2cents on "works"

 

[Scotth1960]

The works part I found to be not thinking we have to do this that the other to earn grace, but to love because then one becomes selfless more and more. We can have all the faith in the world but less we have love it's dead. Love will always lend a helping hand, go out of it's way, walk two miles instead of just one, give a drink of water to a antagonist, bless someone who curses them, love them even under duress.
My 2cents on "works"

Dear Consumed, We are saved by God. Through faith which worketh through love (Gal. 5:6). Salvation is not by faith alone. James 2:24 shows that. But it is by God's mercy alone. Titus 3:5 shows that. And, faith without works is dead (James). What attitude does God require of us: humility. True humility. When we have done what God has prepared for us to do (Eph. 2:10), we are to say, "We are unworthy (unprofitable) servants; we have only done what is our duty to do."
We cannot earn our salvation (Titus 3:5). But we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling (St. Paul says), thus, as James says, we are not saved by faith alone. James 2:24.
In Erie PA July 15/28, 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington

 

[Rosewater]

Life is for those who believe in God (and the divinity of Christ).

The only way a Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist will be spared the fires is if they repent of their false religions and accept Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.

Romans 9:14-15

What are we to say? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses,

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion"

18. So then he has mercy on whomever he chooses, and he hardens the heart of whomever he chooses.

I realize that this goes against Jesus saying that no one goes to the Father except through Him, still what does God will have mercy on whomever He chooses mean then?

 

[Scotth1960]

Romans 9:14-15

What are we to say? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses,

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion"

18. So then he has mercy on whomever he chooses, and he hardens the heart of whomever he chooses.

I realize that this goes against Jesus saying that no one goes to the Father except through Him, still what does God will have mercy on whomever He chooses mean then?

Dear Rosewater,
God wills to have mercy on everyone. Everyone without exception. On all, without exception. All means all. That all do not become saved is not God's election. It's man free will. Only those who believe in the Holy Trinity will be saved (John 3:16).
God wills to have mercy on all people. He does not cause any one to sin.
"who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" 1 Timothy 2:4 NKJV
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not will that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9 NKJV

God bless us in Christ Jesus. Amen. In Erie PA July 15/28, 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington

 

[zackabba]

Romans 9:14-15

What are we to say? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses,

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion"

18. So then he has mercy on whomever he chooses, and he hardens the heart of whomever he chooses.

I realize that this goes against Jesus saying that no one goes to the Father except through Him, still what does God will have mercy on whomever He chooses mean then?

It means just what it says.


He can have mercy on whom He will have mercy, for His glory and to His good pleasure. He is not a respecter of men, and we cannot change his nature.

"Who are you, O man, to talk back to God?"



Grace and Love

 

[zackabba]

No. I certainly don't think so, and neither does the Catholic Church. The Church recognizes that Protestants are united to the Church by virtue of their baptism, and also acknowledges that the Holy Spirit is indeed at work in many Protestant communities. While the Catholic Church does maintain that it is the Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ, it certainly won't deny that there are many who, while not in full communion with the Catholic Church, do profess Him to be Lord, and strive earnestly to follow His teachings to the best of their knowledge.

I'm the first Catholic in my family (that I know of) in over 200 years. And while I do feel that there was a lot I was missing out on in the Christian faith as a non-Catholic, I also know that the Lord IS working in the Protestant churches. I happen to believe, through Scripture and history, that the Catholic Church is the best and most precise way to salvation that Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ intended, but I also put my trust in His mercy and feel confident that He will welcome most sincere Protestant Christians into heaven.

In short, most Catholics recognize that Protestants are Christians, we just think you guys are missing out on quite a few things and want to share them with you.

It's good that you don't believe in that falsehood. However, the Catholic Church does indeed believe that.

Others who are not Catholic can be saved by "invisible ignorance."


This doctrine is one of the sole reasons I'm not a Catholic. I almost did become a Catholic, and was very, very close. The doctrine of Sola Scriptura seemed ridiculous, among other reasons.

Thankfully, God led me away and showed me the falsehood in what they believe. No, the pope is not infallible, nor is the Church.


The only head of our church is Jesus Christ. "For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." (Ephesians 5:23)

(I know you wouldn't deny this, but the pope seems to be the head of the church, and not Christ as much. Whatever he says, goes.)



Grace and Love my brother in Christ

 

[Scotth1960]

It means just what it says.


He can have mercy on whom He will have mercy, for His glory and to His good pleasure. He is not a respecter of men, and we cannot change his nature.

"Who are you, O man, to talk back to God?"



Grace and Love

On whom does God will to have mercy? Scripture says: All. All men.
1 Timothy 2:4 NKJV
2 Peter 3:9 NKJV

Or, are you going to ignore these verses, because you "believe in Calvinism" more than
you believe in the Word, of God, the words of Saint Paul and of Saint Peter in the New Testament?
Who are you, o man, to talk back to 1 Tim. 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9?
That would be to talk back to God, it would be.

 

[Scotth1960]

It's good that you don't believe in that falsehood. However, the Catholic Church does indeed believe that.

Others who are not Catholic can be saved by "invisible ignorance."


This doctrine is one of the sole reasons I'm not a Catholic. I almost did become a Catholic, and was very, very close. The doctrine of Sola Scriptura seemed ridiculous, among other reasons.

Thankfully, God led me away and showed me the falsehood in what they believe. No, the pope is not infallible, nor is the Church.


The only head of our church is Jesus Christ. "For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior." (Ephesians 5:23)

(I know you wouldn't deny this, but the pope seems to be the head of the church, and not Christ as much. Whatever he says, goes.)



Grace and Love my brother in Christ

Dear Zackabba, I believe the catholics say it's "invincible ignorance", not invisible ignorance. Hope you don't take offense that I point out to you your mistake. Someone pointed out to me my ignorance of the fact that the Holy Spirit does NOT proceed from both the Father AND THE SON. JOHN 15:26 PROVES THAT JESUS CHRIST SAID THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT OF TRUTH PROCEEDS FROM GOD THE FATHER ALONE. AMEN. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
PS GOD BLESS YOU ZACKABBA. God bless those who in invincible ignorance believe "who proceeds from the Father" AND THE SON (FILIOQUE). FILIOQUE IS HERESY!

 

[zackabba]

On whom does God will to have mercy? Scripture says: All. All men.
1 Timothy 2:4 NKJV
2 Peter 3:9 NKJV

Or, are you going to ignore these verses, because you "believe in Calvinism" more than
you believe in the Word, of God, the words of Saint Paul and of Saint Peter in the New Testament?
Who are you, o man, to talk back to 1 Tim. 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9?
That would be to talk back to God, it would be.

1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


He's talking about all kinds of men here.


The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Just look in the context of the passage.



Grace and Love

 

[zackabba]

Dear Zackabba, I believe the catholics say it's "invincible ignorance", not invisible ignorance. Hope you don't take offense that I point out to you your mistake. Someone pointed out to me my ignorance of the fact that the Holy Spirit does NOT proceed from both the Father AND THE SON. JOHN 15:26 PROVES THAT JESUS CHRIST SAID THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT OF TRUTH PROCEEDS FROM GOD THE FATHER ALONE. AMEN. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
PS GOD BLESS YOU ZACKABBA. God bless those who in invincible ignorance believe "who proceeds from the Father" AND THE SON (FILIOQUE). FILIOQUE IS HERESY!

You're right, it's invincible not invisible. My bad. Thanks for pointing that out

Grace and Love

 

[zackabba]

On whom does God will to have mercy? Scripture says: All. All men.
1 Timothy 2:4 NKJV
2 Peter 3:9 NKJV

Or, are you going to ignore these verses, because you "believe in Calvinism" more than
you believe in the Word, of God, the words of Saint Paul and of Saint Peter in the New Testament?
Who are you, o man, to talk back to 1 Tim. 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9?
That would be to talk back to God, it would be.

How does the Bible say that people come to God, come to believe in God?


Grace and Love

 

[Scotth1960]

How does the Bible say that people come to God, come to believe in God?


Grace and Love

God's mercy (Titus 3:5), to "whosoever believeth in Him" (Christ): (John 3:16). People come to believe in God by believing in God; God's mercy comes to them; they choose to believe in Him. It's divine and human co-operation. A great mystery. When we believe in Christ (John 3:1)6 we are saved by God's mercy (Titus 3:5)

 

[Katy-follower]

THE BIBLE
Isaiah 8:20: “To the law and to the testimony; if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them”



No where does the Bible say there is a Purgatory. It condemns praying and teaching in unknown languages (1 Cor 14:9). And Jesus forbids ceaseless praise of Mary (Luke 11:27-28)
Prayers to Mary forbidden (Matt 11:28; Luke 1:46; Acts 10:25-26; Acts 14:14-18)
Universal Bishop title forbidden (Luke 22:24-26; Eph 1:22-23; Col 1:18; 1 Cor 3:11)
Kissing of Pope’s feet forbidden (Acts 10:25-26; Rev 19:10; Rev 22:9)
Power over lands forbidden (Matt 4:8-9; Matt 20:25-26; John 18:38)
The worship of any image forbidden (Ex 20:4; Ex 3:17; Dent 27:15; Psalm 1:15)

EVERY Believer is a saint! (Romans 1:7; 1 Cor 1:2)

Fasting and Lent forbidden (Matt 15:10; 1 Cor 10:25; 1 Tim 4:1-3)
Mass forbidden (Heb 7:27; Heb 9:26-28; 10:10-14)
Celibacy forbidden (1 Tim 3:2, 5 and 12; Matt 8:14-15)
Rosary forbidden (Matt 6:5-13)
Transubstantiation is idolatrous! Presence implied! (Luke 22:19-20; John 6:35; 1 Cor 11:26)
Confess to God and ONLY GOD (Psalm 51:1-10; Luke 7:48; Luke 15:21; 1 John 1:8-9)
Wafer adoration? Idolatrous! (John 4:24)
And Catholics once forbid the Bible? (John 5:39; 2 Tim 3:15-17)
The cup is not supposed to be refused (Matt 26:27; 1 Cor 11:26-29)
Purgatory is not in the bible.
Christ ordained only TWO ordinances (Matt 28:19-20; Matt 26:26-28)
Jesus HATES tradition (Mark 7:7-13; Col 2:8; Rev 22:18)
Gal 1:8 and Rev 22:8-9 condemn the creed of Pope Pius IV and the apocrypha
Immaculate Conception condemned (Romans 3:23; Romans 5:12; Psalm 51:5; Luke 1:30, 46, 47)
Papal Infallibility is BLASPHEMOUS
Mother of God title condemned by MARY! (Luke 1:46-49; John 2:1-5)


2 Thess 2:4: “He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call God and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God”

And this “man of sin” is the same head guy of the beast in Revelation 13 which is the same as the “Little Horn” in Daniel 7 and the “whore of Babylon” in Rev 17.

Thomas Hobbes: “The papacy is no other than the ghost of the deceased Roman Empire, sitting crowned upon the grave thereof”
Guilty of killing over 50,000,000 this great Beast/Whore/Horn is guilty of, as well as putting itself in God’s shoes one too many times.



Prayers to the dead and the sign of the cross: 310AD
Wax Candles: 320AD
Veneration of angels and dead saints: 375AD
The Mass as daily celebration: 394AD
Worship of Mary: 431AD
Priests dress differently than Laity: 500AD
Purgatory: introduced in 593AD and officially decreed in 1439AD
Latin Language for Prayer: 600AD
Prayers directed to Mary: 600AD
Pontifes Maximus is a PAGAN TITLE
Kissing of Pope’s feet: 709AD
Temporal Power of Popes: 750AD
Worship of cross, images and relics: 788AD
Holy Water: 850AD
Veneration of St Joseph: 890AD
Baptism of Bells: 965AD
Canonization of dead saints: 995AD
Fasting on Fridays and during Lent: 998AD
Mass: 11th Century
Celibacy: 1079
Rosary: 1090
Inquisition: 1184
Indulgences: 1190
Transubstantiation: 1215
Confession of sins to priest: 1215
Adoration of wafer: 1220
Bible forbidden to lay people: 1229
Scapula: 1287
Cup forbidden to Laity: 1414
Purgatory: 1439
7 Sacraments: 1439
Ave Maria: 1508
Tradition equal to Bible: 1545
Apocrypha: 1546
Creed of Pope Pius IV: 1560
Immaculate Conception: 1854
Papal Infallibility: 1870
Public Schools condemned: 1930
Mother of God: 1931
Assumption of Virgin Mary: 1950

 

[Katy-follower]

Regarding faith-v-works....... It may look like there are contradictions in the bible where Paul and James say different things, but if you read closely you'll see that it's made clear several times what Paul really meant by his words "good works"


Ephesians 2:8-9 – “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them”



James 2:26 – “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without worksis dead also" (in other words - if you have faith alone and the holy spirit within you, then you will NATURALLY bear the fruit of that. The fruit is the outcome of having faith alone. For example, you naturally want to do good things. You can't buy your way into heaven by doing good deeds. Having faith alone-asking Jesus into your life and for forgiveness-you have the holy spirit working within you and you WANT to do good things, so this is the fruit of faith alone - the works.)

James 2:17-19 – “Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works”. Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well” (In other words - if you do not bear the fruits, then are you genuinely saved? - because one who has faith (and asks Jesus into his life and for forgiveness) will bear the fruits naturally.

 

[Elizabeth619]

I don't even agree with the Catholic faith, but even I am not so bold to tell someone that how they have been taught for years...even a religon they were born in to is wrong.

I am not seeing where one "Christian" telling another "Christian" they are WRONG is very Christian.

So, I am getting like this visual of God up in Heaven looking at his golden laptop and reading this thread and he is probably thinking "Katy, you're doing it wrong." just sayin....

Aggressiveness is not the best way to approach people.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

Salvation by faith! I think you could read the list of things in the post by Katy and say that none of those things save anyone. Catholics on the other hand put faith in these traditions. God save the Catholics.

 

[zackabba]

I don't even agree with the Catholic faith, but even I am not so bold to tell someone that how they have been taught for years...even a religon they were born in to is wrong.

I am not seeing where one "Christian" telling another "Christian" they are WRONG is very Christian.

So, I am getting like this visual of God up in Heaven looking at his golden laptop and reading this thread and he is probably thinking "Katy, you're doing it wrong." just sayin....

Aggressiveness is not the best way to approach people.

Say that to Jesus in the Temple

No, not necessarily aggressiveness is the best way. Truthfulness is.

"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)

 

[Elizabeth619]

Say that to Jesus in the Temple

No, not necessarily aggressiveness is the best way. Truthfulness is.

"I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)

You're young. Full of energy. One day when you are faced with an actual circumstance that is not internet related you will see that approaching someone with Love, and kidness is rather effective.


If you, for instance came up to me and siad my faith was wrong I would look at you, knock you over the head and put you in time out.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

You're young. Full of energy. One day when you are faced with an actual circumstance that is not internet related you will see that approaching someone with Love, and kidness is rather effective.


If you, for instance came up to me and siad my faith was wrong I would look at you, knock you over the head and put you in time out.

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

 

[resurrection33]

Catholics are Christians.