Why do Catholics break the Commandment about Idols?

[God4me]

Dear God Me

I would ask that you quote Cathoilc documents when citing what you think the Church teaches
I have no problem if you disagree with the teachings of the Church. That is your choice
It is another thing to make up what you think the Church teaches. If you want to disagree with Church teaching please at least get the doctrine right.
A good easy source you can use with biblical references is
The Catechism of the Cstholic Church. On line version. It's free and easy to use

Anyone can go on youtube, or any internet wedsite and see what the Catholics believe, So what I say is true.
As you should know.

 

[God4me]

"Catholic" simply means "universal." It seems the Roman Catholic Church strictly applies this name to the Roman Catholic institution. I've heard people who attend the Church of Christ quote Romans 16:16, which says "All the churches of Christ greet you" and apply that name to themselves in an effort to try and prove they are the "True Church" as well, because the Bible spelled out the name of their Church. I suppose people who attend the Church of God may try and make the same claim after reading these passages of Scripture (Acts 20:28; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 10:32; 11:22 etc..).

Ignatius didn't mean the RCC

 

[DeaconMike]

It does explain a lot, The Catholics are taught that Jesus started there church through Peter, But history proves otherwise.

Dear God 4 me

The Catholic Church was founded by Christ and the apostles. Very easy to prove from history.
Patristics is kind of my specialty. So if you can find another Church in the late 1st 2nd 3rd centuries that had a Eucharistic liturgy , bishops priests and deacons , practiced infant baptism and called themselves Catholic. I would be interested.

What you won't find is any record of " accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior" to replace baptism. No altar calls no " worship services with preaching and singing. You will find tons of Eucharistic prayers and instructions on how to carry out the Liturgy
So my friend have at it. Let me know what you come up with.
Gods blessings

 

[DeaconMike]

It does explain a lot, The Catholics are taught that Jesus started there church through Peter, But history proves otherwise.

Anyone can go on youtube, or any internet wedsite and see what the Catholics believe, So what I say is true.
As you should know.

Dear God 4 me

Thst is not true. People misrepresent the Church all the time.
If I wanted to learn about something I go to the source. If you want to learn to play golf you don't go to a sky shop

Quote Catholic teaching if you want people , at least educated people that know what the Church actually teaches to take you seriously. Without an educated response you just sound like another mid informed fumdemetslist.

 

[mailmandan]

Dear Mailmadan

That is incorrect. The Roman Rite is just one Rite of 21 various Rites that make up the Church. Thst is why the Church is universal. Because it has the Liturgy in each culture in thre own time.

The Church, the body of Christ, is universal because it is made up of all genuine born again Christians in the world and is not simply a church building with a name stamped on it.

 

[God4me]

Dear Polycarp
St Ignstiius was not from The Roman Rite. He was actually from Antioc which would have made him an Eastern Rite bishop. Although that early in history the various Rites were not defined as they are today
So there are 23 different Rites within the Catholic Church. The Latin Rite which is the largest is what people think of as the RCC
But in all actuality all the Rites make up the Catholic Church. There are Byzintine Catholics Marion Rite Catholics Chaldean Catholics and so on. Each have there own bishops and Liturgy generally in there own language.
So when St Ignstuius is refering to the Catholc Church he is refering to all the Rites thst make up the Church. That is "where the bishop is so is Christ".
That is because the bishop holds the fullness of apostoiilc succession

There is no such Biblical thing as Apostolic succession.
First there were the twelve Apostles of the Lamb, Who had to be an eye witness of the life, Ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus, And no one since those Apostles, are an eye witness, So no one can succeed those Apostles.
Then there were the foundational Apostles, And there are no foundational Apostles today, So no can succeed them.
Then after that, Jesus gave the Ministers, Eph 4 : 11. and God set them in the Church, 1 Cor 12: 28.
Please note, God gives Apostles, No mention of succession.

Besides, even if there were such a thing as succession, It wouldn't be the Catholic church, It would be born again Christians.

 

[mailmandan]

Ignatius didn't mean the RCC

You and I know that, but Roman Catholics don't.

 

[God4me]

Dear God 4 me

Thst is not true. People misrepresent the Church all the time.
If I wanted to learn about something I go to the source. If you want to learn to play golf you don't go to a sky shop

Quote Catholic teaching if you want people , at least educated people that know what the Church actually teaches to take you seriously. Without an educated response you just sound like another mid informed fumdemetslist.

People might misrepresent the Catholics, But a lot of people give the truth about the erroneous Catholic church.

I can prove all your doctrines wrong, With the Bible and the Greek, And I won't twist it like the Catholics do.

 

[God4me]

Dear God 4 me

The Catholic Church was founded by Christ and the apostles. Very easy to prove from history.
Patristics is kind of my specialty. So if you can find another Church in the late 1st 2nd 3rd centuries that had a Eucharistic liturgy , bishops priests and deacons , practiced infant baptism and called themselves Catholic. I would be interested.

What you won't find is any record of " accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior" to replace baptism. No altar calls no " worship services with preaching and singing. You will find tons of Eucharistic prayers and instructions on how to carry out the Liturgy
So my friend have at it. Let me know what you come up with.
Gods blessings

Catholic weren't founded by Jesus. History proves they came from a pagan church who believed in many gods, Hence the many gods to whom the Catholics pray to.
The Catholic church is nothing like the Biblical Church.
The Biblical Church has Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers.
The Catholic church has, Pope's Unbiblical priests and unbiblical type of bishops.
The Biblical Church is regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
The Catholic church is regenerated by water baptism, [Or so they say].
The Biblical Church only has one heavenly mediator.
The Catholic church has many heavenly mediators.
The Biblical Church believes the blood of Jesus cleanses from all sins.
The Catholic church believes works, penance, indulgencies and purgatory are needed to cleans them.
The Biblical Church believes in water baptism by total immersion.
The Catholic church believes in infant baptism [Which is witchcraft].
The Biblical Church speaks in tongues when they are baptised in the Holy Ghost.
The Catholic church don't speak in tongues at their confirmation, [Which is supposed to be their receiving the Holy Ghost].

Need I go on??.

 

[God4me]

Dear God 4 me

The Catholic Church was founded by Christ and the apostles. Very easy to prove from history.
Patristics is kind of my specialty. So if you can find another Church in the late 1st 2nd 3rd centuries that had a Eucharistic liturgy , bishops priests and deacons , practiced infant baptism and called themselves Catholic. I would be interested.

What you won't find is any record of " accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior" to replace baptism. No altar calls no " worship services with preaching and singing. You will find tons of Eucharistic prayers and instructions on how to carry out the Liturgy
So my friend have at it. Let me know what you come up with.
Gods blessings

As for, "" accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour", Read.
Jn 1: 12. Acts 9; 6. Acts 16: 30--31. All these indicate that we have to receive Jesus, And He has to be your personal saviour.

 

[DeaconMike]

The Church, the body of Christ, is universal because it is made up of all genuine born again Christians in the world and is not simply a church building with a name stamped on it.

Dear Mailmadan

I agree with that definition of Church wholeheartedly. The faith is not an institution. As Pope Benedict XVI said " it is about a person Jesus Christ. "
Gods blessings to you

 

[DeaconMike]

As for, "" accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour", Read.
Jn 1: 12. Acts 9; 6. Acts 16: 30--31. All these indicate that we have to receive Jesus, And He has to be your personal saviour.

Dear God 4 me

I agree. Accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior is neccessary ( if you read the CCC you would know that the Church teaches that)

But that dousnt mean other things are not required in Sacred Scrioture as well. We must have faith , keep the commandments , love our neighbor. Ask for forgivness, be baptized. Scripture teaches all these things are neccessary for Salvation. Thst is what St Paul means by the " obedience of faith" or " faith working through love" Gal 5

 

[DeaconMike]

Catholic weren't founded by Jesus. History proves they came from a pagan church who believed in many gods, Hence the many gods to whom the Catholics pray to.
The Catholic church is nothing like the Biblical Church.
The Biblical Church has Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers.
The Catholic church has, Pope's Unbiblical priests and unbiblical type of bishops.
The Biblical Church is regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
The Catholic church is regenerated by water baptism, [Or so they say].
The Biblical Church only has one heavenly mediator.
The Catholic church has many heavenly mediators.
The Biblical Church believes the blood of Jesus cleanses from all sins.
The Catholic church believes works, penance, indulgencies and purgatory are needed to cleans them.
The Biblical Church believes in water baptism by total immersion.
The Catholic church believes in infant baptism [Which is witchcraft].
The Biblical Church speaks in tongues when they are baptised in the Holy Ghost.
The Catholic church don't speak in tongues at their confirmation, [Which is supposed to be their receiving the Holy Ghost].

Need I go on??.

Dear God Me

Yes please do. Only I adk that you either quote Church documents or historical Eccesial Patristic documents showing thd roots of all these. If not its just someone who had a grudge about the Church

I had a professor in the seminary use to say when challenged " show me the money"

What you have is a bunch of statements with no evidence to back it up. And please don't cite some anti Catholic website that goes through a laundry list with no historical data

As I said before. If your going to make statements about the Church. Get your facts straight.

Gods blessings to you. I'm sorry about all those terrible things happening in Europe. You are in my prayers.

 

[thepsalmist]

Exodus 20:3-5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“You shall have no other gods before Me.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]You shall not worship them or serve them.

Statues and Pictures of Mary are Idols because Catholics do pray to them.

So how can they Justify their Praying to Mary which God has said we are not to do?

Why do Muslims pray to a cube?
Why do atheists say there is no God?
Why do some "marry frogs" in the hopes of rain?

They all are bound with the spirit of the world, the spirit of error, still in their sins ... needing Jesus to be reconciled to God.

 

[LaurenTM]

we might as well ask why do Christians, non-Catholic ones, continue in sin or hate on each other

same difference

people need Jesus and they need to get their act together and take God's word seriously and not as something that applies to someone else

does anyone here really think that any one person, or bunch of persons as in denomination, has it all together?

nothing to be gained in offense or defense here IMO

divide and conquer works every time and lets not even talk about the 5th column

disclaimer: I'm not Catholic so don't go there thinking that is why I said what I did

thanks

 

[God4me]

Dear God 4 me

I agree. Accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior is neccessary ( if you read the CCC you would know that the Church teaches that)

But that dousnt mean other things are not required in Sacred Scrioture as well. We must have faith , keep the commandments , love our neighbor. Ask for forgivness, be baptized. Scripture teaches all these things are neccessary for Salvation. Thst is what St Paul means by the " obedience of faith" or " faith working through love" Gal 5

The only quaification for salvation, is to believe and receive Jesus as Lord and saviour.
See Eph 2: 8--9. Titus 3: 5.

Please note, no mention of baptism.
Water baptism doesn't save, and if you knew the Bible and the Greek, you would know it.
Plus, baptism is by total immersion, so most Catholics AREN'T saved, if they believe baptism saves.

 

[God4me]

Dear God Me

Yes please do. Only I adk that you either quote Church documents or historical Eccesial Patristic documents showing thd roots of all these. If not its just someone who had a grudge about the Church

I had a professor in the seminary use to say when challenged " show me the money"

What you have is a bunch of statements with no evidence to back it up. And please don't cite some anti Catholic website that goes through a laundry list with no historical data

As I said before. If your going to make statements about the Church. Get your facts straight.

Gods blessings to you. I'm sorry about all those terrible things happening in Europe. You are in my prayers.

It's you I want to know how wrong the Catholics are, and you will know all the statements.
Also, most people will know the catholic doctrines.
For example, Catholics teach that Mary was an ever virgin.
But I can prove from the Bible and the Greek, that she had at least seven other children.

You know very well that you have to twist the scriptures and the Greek, to get your teaching of Mary being a virgin.

 

[DeaconMike]

The only quaification for salvation, is to believe and receive Jesus as Lord and saviour.
See Eph 2: 8--9. Titus 3: 5.

Please note, no mention of baptism.
Water baptism doesn't save, and if you knew the Bible and the Greek, you would know it.
Plus, baptism is by total immersion, so most Catholics AREN'T saved, if they believe baptism saves.

Dear God 4 me
Then you tell Jesus the next time you talk to him that you don't need to kerp the commandments or ask for forgivness or clothe the naked or repent

Let me know how that goes for you!!
Peace my friend.

 

[HQ]

A Catholic response: God's blessings

Some Protestants accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped one of the 10 Commandments. "You're idolators! You worship statues! And because you do, your Church dropped the commandment against graven images!"

The truth, of course, is that the Catholic Church did not and could not change the Ten Commandments. Latin Catholics and Protestants simply list them differently. It is incredible that such a pernicious lie could be so easily spread and believed, especially since the truth could easily be determined by just looking into the matter. But the rumor lives.

Now, below are the ways in which Protestants and Roman Catholics enumerate the Commandments:
[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif] Most common Protestant listing: [/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour
Thou shalt not covet [/FONT]​

[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Latin Catholic listing: [/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not have other gods besides Me
Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember to keep holy the Lord’s day
Honor thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not murder
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods[/FONT]​

[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]So what the heck? What did happen to the commandment about graven images in the Catholic listing? Did the Church just "drop" a commandment?

Um, no. The Old Testament was around long before the time of the Apostles, and the Decalogue, which is found in three different places in the Bible (Exodus 20 and Exodous 34 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21), has not been changed by the Catholic Church. Chapter and verse divisions are a medieval invention, however, and numbering systems of the Ten Words (Commandments), the manner in which they are grouped, and the "short-hand" used for them, vary among various religious groups. Exodus 20 is the version most often referred to when one speaks of the Ten Commandments, so it will be our reference point here. Here's how the relevant portion of Exodus 20 reads: [/FONT]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]2 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]3 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]4 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]5 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]6 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]7 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]8 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]9 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: [/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]10 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]11 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]12 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]13 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not kill. [SUP]1[/SUP] [/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]14 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not commit adultery. [/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]15 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not steal. [/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]16 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. [/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]17 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]So we have 16 verses and Ten Commandments (this we know because of Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 4:13 which speak of the "Ten Words" of God). How to group these verses and Commands? Here's how different groups have handled this: [/FONT]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #eee9e9, colspan: 3"][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif] Verses Grouped Together[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 10%, bgcolor: #eee9e9"][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Counted as Commandment # [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 30%, bgcolor: #f5f5f5"][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Jewish [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 30%, bgcolor: #f5f5f5"][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Latin Catholic, Lutheran [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 30%, bgcolor: #f5f5f5"][FONT=verdana, sans-serif]Eastern Catholic, Orthodox, Most Protestant[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]1[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]2 (commandment to believe)[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]3, 4, 5, 6[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]3[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]2[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]3, 4, 5, 6[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]7[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]4, 5, 6[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]3[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]7[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]8, 9, 10, 11[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]7[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]4[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]8, 9, 10, 11[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]12[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]8, 9, 10, 11[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]5[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]12[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]13 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]12[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]6[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]13 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]14[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]13 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]7[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]14[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]15 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]14[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]8[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]15 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]16[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]15[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]9[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]16[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]17a (commandment against lust) [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]16[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]10[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]17 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]17b (commandment against greed) [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]17[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]When the Commandments are listed, they are often listed in short-hand form, such that, for ex., verses 8, 9, 10 and 11 concerning the Sabbath become simply "Remember the Sabbath and to keep it holy." Because Latin Catholics group 3, 4, 5 and 6 together as all pertaining to the concept "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me," we are accused of having "dropped" the commandment against idols. That Eastern Catholics list the Commandments differently never enters the equation for people who think this way; they are simply against those they probably call the "Romish popers" and that's that (I hope it doesn't bother them that Jews would accuse them of totally forgetting the First Commandment, or that Latin Catholics could accuse some Protestants of skipping lightly over the commandments against lust. And why don't the Protestants who have a problem with our numbering system go after the Lutherans for the same thing, anyway?).

Bottom line: [/FONT]

• [FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]chapter and verse numbering in the Bible came about in the Middle Ages[/FONT]
  
  
• [FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]the Catholic Church (which includes Eastern Catholics, too) has two different numbering systems for the Commandments given, one agreeing with the most common Protestant enumeration; [/FONT]
  
  
• [FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]the Latin Church's numbering is the most common in the Catholic Church and is the one referred to by Protestants who, ignoring Eastern Catholic Churches, accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped a Commandment;[/FONT]
  
  
• [FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif] no Commandment has been dropped, in any case, but the Latin Church's shorthand for the Commandments looks different than the typical Protestant version because of how the Commandments are grouped; [/FONT]
  
  
• [FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]everyone knows how to find Exodus 20 in the Bible, anyway -- even us stoopid Latin Catholics; and [/FONT]
  
  
• [FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]we don't care how they are grouped together; we only care that they are understood and obeyed -- not because we are under the Old Testament Moral and Ceremonial Law with its legalism and non-salvific ritual (we aren't!), but because we are to obey God as children of the New Covenant, whose moral law includes the Two Great Commandments (to love God and to love our neighbor) which surpass the Decalogue, and whose Sacraments surpass empty ritual, being media of grace.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Footnote:
[SUP]1[/SUP] The Septuagint, the Latin Vulgate (the official Scripture of the Church), and the original Douay-Reims phrase the Fifth Word as "Thou shalt not murder"; later Douay-Reims versions, such as the Challoner, and the King James Bible, etc., phrase it as "Thou shalt not kill." "Thou shalt not murder," however, is the original intent and the meaning of the earliest texts. Catholics, of course, have 2,000 years of Church teaching and the Magisterium to interpret Scripture, and the meaning of the Fifth Commandment is that one is not to take innocent life. It doesn't entail pacifism, ignoring the needs of self-defense and justice, worrying about squashing bugs, etc.[/FONT]

A request DeaconMike...could you please limit the size of your posts? When you post a huge missive 1) It tears up a lot of real estate, 2) Many people just ignore them, and 3) it's very hard to respond to everything in the post. Thanks.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Simple explanation..because they are deceived..