Why do you believe the law is not binding on Christians?

Timeline · May 31, 2014

Sin was always sin. But the Law gives power to it. But, as Paul tell us, the Law is not bad, because it makes us aware of sin. Under the New, the power of sin has been removed. Jesus defeated sin for us because we were never worthy or able.

Galatians 3
You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? [SUP]5 [/SUP]So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

Romans 9:32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,

Romans 3:27-31
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.[SUP]29 [/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, [SUP]30 [/SUP]since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.[SUP]31[/SUP]Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

People often read verse 31 to say that we are still under the Law of Moses, but if we live our lives under the direction of the Holy Spirit, then the Law is established in the non-believer, though we are not under it. I am not great man, but even through my bumbling, sinful self people have noticed that Jesus is in me. They somehow pick up that I am a Christian even when I have not said anything regarding spiritual matters. If read a little further, we see:

1 Timothy
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, [SUP]9 [/SUP]realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers[SUP]10 [/SUP]and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, [SUP]11 [/SUP]according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

So the Law is for those that are not led by the Spirit. The Law led/leads us to Jesus, who freely offers us the Holy Spirit, who is a trustworthy guide - We just need to listen to Him. But we, being led by the Spirit, show the love and the Law of God.

Timeline · May 31, 2014

gamlet said:

Matthew 19:16-22
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” [SUP]17 [/SUP]And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” [SUP]18 [/SUP]Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;[SUP]19
[/SUP]Honor your father and mother;
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” [SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go andsell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” [SUP]22 [/SUP]But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.

Is there a reason that Jesus did not include the Sabbath? If you want to worship on Saturday, then you are not sinning. But understand that we are not under the Law of Moses, if we have truly accepted Jesus.

Matthew 22:34-40
[SUP]34 [/SUP]But when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered themselves together. [SUP]35 [/SUP]One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, [SUP]36 [/SUP]“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” [SUP]37 [/SUP]And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the great and foremost commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ [SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

The Law of Grace and Love, instead of the Law of Sin and Death.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death (this is talking about the Law of Moses).

Romans 8:3-4
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

The fault lies, not in the Law, but in the flesh. But if we try to live by the Law of Moses:

John 5:39-47
[SUP]39 [/SUP]You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; [SUP]40 [/SUP]and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. [SUP]41 [/SUP]I do not receive glory from men; [SUP]42 [/SUP]but I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves. [SUP]43 [/SUP]I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him. [SUP]44 [/SUP]How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God? [SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. [SUP]46 [/SUP]For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. [SUP]47 [/SUP]But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Moses and the prophets foretold Jesus. Jesus is the answer, our hope, and the only door.

I am not OSAS, and I do not believe in a works based salvation, but I do believe that we carry out the will of God, though the Spirit, while we are still in imperfect flesh.

Romans 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

Hoffco · May 31, 2014

The moral law has never ceased to be the moral standard for all mankind to live by, the law is still the school master to lead us to Christ. After Jesus saves us He tells us we must keep the moral laws and that we now have a new heart and the power to keep the moral laws of God, the only difference now is , when we brake a law , we go to Christ for forgiveness, then continue to walk in the light of Jesus which is all His laws for us in the N.T.. We are not relieved of laws ,Yet forgiven and now empowered by God to keep them ,Yet nor 100% all the time, Love to all Hoffco

gamlet · May 31, 2014

Timeline said:

Do you find it strange that Jesus didn't make the 10th leper go to the priest? Yes, he told them to go, as it had been written in the Law of Moses. But when the 10th leper came back and thanked Jesus, what did Jesus tell him? Why did Jesus tell him that he didn't need to go to the Priest? Do you think Jesus was in violation of the Law of Moses when He said this? Is Jesus not in us? Why does Paul say that accepting circumcision is denying Jesus? Why didn't Jesus have the "adulterer" and the one she committed adultery with, stoned to death? Why does Jesus take the Law out of the letter and place it in the heart? Why does the NT tell us that the Temple is no longer a structure/building, but it the body of Jesus Christ - and that we are all a part of it? Why are we all called priests and saints - and Jesus is our high priest? Why did Jesus have to die in the flesh? Dying to the Law of Moses?

1 Corinthians 3
Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some, letters of commendation to you or from you? [SUP]2 [/SUP]You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; [SUP]3 [/SUP]being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, [SUP]6 [/SUP]who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, [SUP]8 [/SUP]how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? [SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; [SUP]16 [/SUP]but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Romans 7
Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the married woman (the married woman would be God's wife -Jeremiah 3:8 - at the bottom of this post) is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband (this would be God / Jesus Christ) dies, she is released from the law (this would be the Law of Moses - from God) concerning the husband. [SUP]3 [/SUP]So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress (how many times in the OT did God call Israel/Judah a harlot) ; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law (again this is the Law of Moses), so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man (This would be the resurrected Jesus, which is explained below with actual scripture, instead of my humble words).
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; [SUP]10 [/SUP]and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; [SUP]11 [/SUP]for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. [SUP]17 [/SUP]So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. [SUP]20 [/SUP]But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, [SUP]23 [/SUP]but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

We see in verses 7-13 that the Law was not bad, but man is incapable of keeping it. We are not perfect, in the flesh, but are made perfect in the spirit, through Jesus Christ.

Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away and given her a writ of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear; but she went and was a harlot also.

Israel was restored as the Church. But, anyone that was a bloodline descendant of Jacob was not excluded if they accepted/accept Jesus. Jesus was the first fruit. And we, if we continue in Him, produce the same fruit - although it is not us, but Christ in us.

I think the tenth leper had also been to the priests. "And as they went, they were cleansed." (Luke 17:14). They all went to the Priests but only one returned to Jesus. Circumcision as a qualification for acceptance with God is abominable, but circumcision for health reasons is an acceptable practice today.

Regarding the woman caught in adultery, the law states that both the woman and the man had to be brought to trial, but they brought only the woman because they had trapped one of Jesus' followers (tradition holds this to be Mary Magdalene) to serve as a bait for Jesus. But He saw through their plot. Jesus died to set us free from sin, not from the law.

It is the veil that covers the Law that is removed so that it can now be understood in Christ. Romans 7 says that the Law was used by Satan to deceive Christians into believing that they could be justified by keeping it. That is the basic problem with the Law--Christians are tempted into depending on it for salvation as the Jews did (Romans 2:17). The proper function of the Law is to teach what is right and wrong. So it was given to those who have been saved just as the Law was given to Israel after they were freed from slavery in Egypt. So the Law was given so that the redeemed in Christ might have some specifics of a life of love.

Hoffco · May 31, 2014

The biggest error in churches today is the 2nd blessing doctrine which teaches all saved persons are only Justified and not sanctified. So most all pastors teach a victorious benefit we get if we start obeying Jesus as our Lord. With this yielding to the control of the Spirit we can live the victorious christian life and gain victory over ruling sin in our christian life. This way of having the christ life living in us, we gain the victory over sin that rules our christian life, because Jesus does the living for us in us.. This is a damnable heresy. the "carnal christian" heresy, which great men of the pass hated and great men of today hate, . A.B.Simpson taught it But His own dem.'s A.W. Tozor hated it. It has divided churches for centuries. Love to all. Hoffco

CWJ · May 31, 2014

gamlet said:

Are you of Jewish descent, Gamlet? You aren't?
Then why should you consider yourself to be under the law of Moses?

* For the law was given by God, through Moses to the Children of Israel, as part of a covenant arrangement, and with no other nation

All of mankind is under the law of sin and death, yes, but the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ is delivered from that law and it's consequence. (Rom.8:2).

'For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus
hath made me free from the law of sin and death.'

The law of conscience is something which all of mankind is subject to of course. (Rom 2:13-16)

'(For not the hearers of the law are just before God,
but the doers of the law shall be justified.
For when the Gentiles,
which have not the law,
do by nature the things contained in the law,
these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
'Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
their conscience also bearing witness,
and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another'

This constant argument concerning the law is so unnecessary.

All Scripture is FOR US, but not all is ABOUT US.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Timeline · May 31, 2014

gamlet said:

I disagree, I believe it is clear that he did not make it to the priest. As they walked, they were healed. And the 10th showed gratitude by returning to thank Jesus. And Jesus said that his faith made him well.

Luke 17:11-19
[SUP]11 [/SUP]While He was on the way to Jerusalem, He was passing between Samaria and Galilee. [SUP]12 [/SUP]As He entered a village, ten leprous men who stood at a distance met Him; [SUP]13 [/SUP]and they raised their voices, saying, “Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!” [SUP]14 [/SUP]When He saw them, He said to them, “Go and show yourselves to the priests.” And as they were going, they were cleansed. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Now one of them, when he saw that he had been healed, turned back, glorifying God with a loud voice, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and he fell on his face at His feet, giving thanks to Him. And he was a Samaritan. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then Jesus answered and said, “Were there not ten cleansed? But the nine—where are they? [SUP]18 [/SUP]Was no one found who returned to give glory to God, except this foreigner?” [SUP]19 [/SUP]And He said to him, “Stand up and go; your faith has made you well.”
Yes, you are correct, both should have been stoned. The Law of Moses says that both should be stoned, but Jesus showed mercy. He did not sin, even though He did not command that the man be brought and both of them to be stoned.

John 8:1-11
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. [SUP]3 [/SUP]The scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, [SUP]4 [/SUP]they *said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” [SUP]6 [/SUP]They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. [SUP]9 [/SUP]When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” [SUP]11 [/SUP]She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]

So you believe that Jesus broke the Law of Moses to avoid a trick? This is not accurate. Jesus appealed to their awareness of their own sins. He pointed out that they were all sinners. And they could not deny this, so they walked away. Under the Law of Moses, no one is saved, ALL die. Jesus fulfilled the Law and died to it, so that we could LIVE through the Spirit in the New Law of Grace.

CWJ · May 31, 2014

CWJ said:

Regarding the law, and the believing Jew:-

'But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying,
That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
And when there had been much disputing,
Peter rose up, and said unto them,
"Men and brethren,
ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us,
that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts,
bare them witness,
giving them the Holy Ghost,
even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them,
purifying their hearts by faith.
Now therefore why tempt ye God,
to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples,
which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
But we believe
that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ
we shall be saved, even as they.'

Act 15:5-11

gamlet · May 31, 2014

Timeline said:

The commandments mentioned by Jesus had to do with the second tablet--those dealing with love for fellowmen. Jesus was providing medicine for the problems of the rich young ruler. He had no problems with keeping the Sabbath and with worship of idols and with profaning God's name. He did have a problem loving his neighbor.

Timeline said:

The two commandments of love summarize the Ten Commandments. They first 4 commandments on the first tablet of stone have to do with loving God. Commandments 5-10 on the second tablet have to do with loving fellowmen. Being summaries they do not take away what is summarized. So the ten are still there but this time with the explanation that their ultimate goal is love. The commandment against murder is really about not hurting others even with your words. If you keep the Sabbath without love, then you're not really keeping it. But they're still there. One of the characteristics of the faithful is that they keep the commandments (Revelations 14:12).

Timeline said:

Set us free from the Law as a means of righteousness.

Timeline said:

The Law could not serve as a means for righteousness because it could not be obeyed perfectly. So a Christian must not consider his obedience to the Law as a means to righteousness or salvation. The Law was given to help us differentiate right from wrong.

Timeline said:

Life in the Spirit is a life of obedience to the Law of Liberty....

Timeline said:

I hope that you accept the fact that it is possible for a Christian who is saved by grace to live a life of obedience. The fact is that antinomianism or the attitude that says that law need not be kept crept into the Church at a very late period even after Augustine.

CWJ · May 31, 2014

gamlet said:

The commandments mentioned by Jesus had to do with the second tablet--those dealing with love for fellowmen. Jesus was providing medicine for the problems of the rich young ruler. He had no problems with keeping the Sabbath and with worship of idols and with profaning God's name. He did have a problem loving his neighbor.

The two commandments of love summarize the Ten Commandments. They first 4 commandments on the first tablet of stone have to do with loving God. Commandments 5-10 on the second tablet have to do with loving fellowmen. Being summaries they do not take away what is summarized. So the ten are still there but this time with the explanation that their ultimate goal is love. The commandment against murder is really about not hurting others even with your words. If you keep the Sabbath without love, then you're not really keeping it. But they're still there. One of the characteristics of the faithful is that they keep the commandments (Revelations 14:12).

Set us free from the Law as a means of righteousness.

The Law could not serve as a means for righteousness because it could not be obeyed perfectly. So a Christian must not consider his obedience to the Law as a means to righteousness or salvation. The Law was given to help us differentiate right from wrong.

Life in the Spirit is a life of obedience to the Law of Liberty....

I hope that you accept the fact that it is possible for a Christian who is saved by grace to live a life of obedience. The fact is that antinomianism or the attitude that says that law need not be kept crept into the Church at a very late period even after Augustine.

Hi Gamlet,

I think that we are in agreement.
The law is good, it is a guide for living in a manner which will honour God.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Bookends · May 31, 2014

phil112 said:

We are freed from the written law, not of the law of Christ or of Love in which God writes upon the heart of a born again person. We no longer need a written law to show us the "dos" and "do nots" because of the law of Christ is now in the believer and shows us, convicts us, teaches us how to love and behave.

1 Corinthians 9;

[h=3]Serving All Men[/h]19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; 20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law,[c] that I might win those who are under the law;21to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; 22 to the weak I became as[f] weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.

Galatians 6;

2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Mark 12;

28 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving[d] that He had answered them well, asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?”

29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is:‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Dan_473 · May 31, 2014

gamlet said:

'Fulfilling the spirit of the law would not lead one to violating the letter of the law.'

well this is a part of scripture that we interpret differently... 'as iron sharpens iron, so a man's face is sharpened by his friend'... so, my friend, let's see if we can discuss this and both come away with 'sharper' (more godly) faces... because, of course, the goal of any christian discussion imo would be the edification of both people...

in matt 12, Jesus is asked if it is lawful to heal on the sabbath... in six days God did creative, miraculous work... creating the heavens and the earth... God then rests on the seventh day, rests from miraculous work... Jesus doesn't say that a miracle is ok to do on the seventh day because it isn't work... rather, he says it is ok to do work on the sabbath if you're doing good... that's something i haven't found in the letter of the law... maybe it's there and i haven't seen it yet... so, imo, Jesus does violate the letter of the law by working on the sabbath, but he doesn't violate the Spirit... he is led by the Spirit...

looking forward to your answer!
grace and peace to you!

Ariel82 · May 31, 2014

gamlet said:

1. i don't lump all the laws of the OT together in one heap. I lump all the laws Moses gave in one heap because they are ALL part of the OLD Covenant. However, I believe there are universal laws that God has that doesn't change. I just don't believe they are the 10 commandments. I believe they are deeper and more profound. the 10 commandments are just the letter of the law. the Spirit is much more and requires more than the letter.

2. the first crime/sin Cain committed was his offering to God, then his anger at not being accepted, then his anger at his brother for no just reason, then the outward form of sin/ rebellion: murder.

therefore the transgression began in Cain's initial offering, and came to fruition in his act of violence upon Abel.

I'm not sure if you see the significance.

Also I"m not sure what "Sabbath" you think was in place. Just as murder was not the law/sin that God reprimanded Cain for, neither is the commonly pushed "sabbath keeping" what God intended people to do NOW or in the beginning of time.

God intends for us to rest from our labors one day a week.

that does not mean castrating others if they decide to clean their house, cook dinner, go shopping, go to work, etc.

It does not require that people read their Bibles, volunteer to help others do things they don't want to do or can't do, donate money to charity, etc.

the Sabbath was given to man for man's benefit. Men were NOT made for the Sabbath but the sabbath was suppose to be a blessing for man to trust and rejoice in the abundance of God's love and gifts.

too many "Sabbath keepers" have made it a curse and a burden and that truly is a shame.

Ariel82 · May 31, 2014

the priest of God profane the sabbath and are held blameless (they make sacrifices: kill and butcher animals is hard and messy work)

Jesus profane/did work on the sabbath and was sinless.

Keeping the Sabbath is to do NO work. some may deceive themselves and say they "keep" the sabbath, but its a lie.

However, its NOT a sin.

to do God's work on the Sabbath is to profane it, however, you are blameless because you are doing God's work.

In the same regard if you dedicate your WHOLE life and everything you do to God then your work (even though you may get paid and use it to buy food and shelter) is still for the Glory of God because you give it to Him and do not claim it as your own.

that is how some people can value each day the same and still walk in God's way.

However, if you are weak in faith and wish to be renewed once a week by keeping the Sabbath, then God says its okay. You can do that. It may be part of you growing.

In the same regard you should not judge those who choose not to follow your convictions concerning the Sabbath. Just as they should not condemn you or look down on you for needing that day to boost your faith and reliance on God.

symbols help us to remember to keep our eyes focused on God and are not bad in themselves. it is when the heart condemns others that sin is given ground to take root.

just as the letter of the law says not to murder, the spirit says not to be angry at your brother without cause.

the letter of the law says no work on the Sabbath, but the Spirit says rest from your labors and trust fully in God to take care of you and the world. If God places in your heart to do work on the Sabbath, then like the OT priest you may profane the sabbath and do His work and be held blameless. For the New Covenant call us His holy temple and His priesthood to show the world the glory of His love.

Matthew 12:5 Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?

cxjonz · May 31, 2014

faroukfarouk said:

"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 It is true that the law was changed after Jesus' crucifixion, resurrection and ascension. But the law was changed by adding a word. Only those who have the faith to comply with what the added law requires are those whom God will declare righteous. There are no exceptions.

gleener · Jun 1, 2014

People please read your bibles The law is with us and always will be it is our school master which brought us to Christ without the law and breaking it we need not our Savior but since all have sinned Romans 3:23 we need Jesus and his works that were obeying the law and not breaking any, No not 1 did He break or His works would not be able to save us matt 5; 17 -19 Says not one law would be removed or abolish until heaven and earth pass away. Hello earth is still here. even the food law still applies because God says in Leviticus 20 25 -26 make sure we do not make ourselves an abomination but eating something that is not food or is unclean for us to eat the word unclean is used over 30 times in Leviticus 11 and is also in Galatians 5 19 In which Paul writes and says those who practice uncleanness do not inherit heaven. We follow Christ not the law. Christ obeyed the law so ought we not to walk as Christ walked 1 john 2 vs 6 God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. Christ did not eat pork or shell fish so why would any one who calls him or herself a believer want to do something Christ would not do? Not one jot or tittle will ever be removed from the law. Since we follow Christ and not the law, the law has no power over us. but do we then make void of the law certainly not we uphold it romans 3 vs 31 All I have left is don't be right do right by the word of God go and sin no more! Love to all

2Thewaters · Jun 1, 2014

The devil hates the law and wants you to ignre it s yu cant be saved.

1 Tim 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

Faith = trust and bedience t the word of God and his law.

that is what faith is.

Abraham had faith
obedience to the words God spoke

2Thewaters · Jun 1, 2014

Some false teachers twist faith to mean something else

but faith is obedience to aLL the words God spoke

Noah had faith he obeyed Gods word
Abraham had faith he obeyed Gods word
The three hebrews in the fiery furnace had faith, they follwed and obeyed God's word even though theyw ould kill them

Daniel had faith he prayed like God told him to

christians who have faith follow and obey the Bible
those who don't follow the Bible because Jesus died on the cross have no faith.
Following and obeying the Bible is faith
faithlessness are those not doing what they read.

Kerry · Jun 1, 2014

I don't believe that law is binding to Christians for the simple reason that my faith is based in the cross and not what I do and also because by that faith I am a child of Abraham and Abraham had no law.

Ariel82 · Jun 1, 2014

faith is more than just obedience to the law.

faith is throwing your heart and trust into God's hands and allowing Him to lead and shape your life.

Faith is surrendering your own works and your filthy rags for the cleansing blood of Christ.

Faith is putting others needs before your own.

Faith is hearing the Holy Spirit in every aspect of your life.

Faith is the beginning of your walk with Christ.

Faith is built upon when you gain virtue ( the indwelling Holy Spirit), and knowledge of what is right and wrong. Then the Holy Spirit will teach you self-control and only through perseverance will you obtain godliness. Eventually you will be healed enough to see past your hurts, wants and needs and be able to offer others brotherly kindness and agape love.

2 Peter 1
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, [SUP]7 [/SUP]to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

don't confuse new believers by placing the cart before the horse.

Faith is NOT obedience to the law, but it can lead to godliness by giving one the desire to learn self control and gain wisdom from above.

Why do you believe the law is not binding on Christians?

Senior Member

Senior Member

Hoffco

Guest

gamlet

Guest

Hoffco

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

gamlet

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Ariel82

Guest

Ariel82

Guest

Banned

gleener

Guest

2Thewaters

Guest

2Thewaters

Guest

Kerry

Guest

Ariel82

Guest