Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

[Starcrash]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

Wouldn't the simple application of the Bible scripture (2Tim 2:23, 3:16) be enough to resolve the cross talking and un-Christian behavior?

No. Because...

1. Words have ambiguity. Not everyone reads the same thing the same way, so using scripture doesn't necessarily back one's point because others can read it differently. I've cited Jesus' response to the Rich Young Ruler many times, where Jesus is asked how to gain eternal life and He gives an answer that doesn't even mention belief. Can you imagine how many different ways this has been explained away?

2. The bible contains contradictions. One of the first posts I responded to was "whether John the Baptist was Elijah", and I said that I could see either answer as correct because Matthew says he was but John says he wasn't. One of my personal frustrations was not that scripture wasn't being cited, but rather that citing scripture was the only thing people did. In this case, it wasn't enough to report what the bible said because you still had to resolve the problem of countering other arguments also made from citing scripture.

3. Not all Christian beliefs come from the bible. You won't find scripture against using swear words -- verses against "cursing" don't refer to this practice, and "curse words" are not defined within the bible (your culture defines profanity), so no one could cite those, either. You won't find scripture backing up the necessity to dress up for church, or a command to read the scriptures (for hundreds of years, only the clergy possessed bibles and it was in a dead language). So bible citations are useless in debates centered around Christian rituals found outside the bible.

 

[Quickfire]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

I read most of this jumble of nonsense but I must say , looney toon. Sorry but your post sounds crazy. You have some decent points but mostly just ramble about nothing.

well whatever may be may be,
at least my post had more words than you, ner ner ,,my post may be a ramble but your post is the most intelectual post i have ever seen, byeeeeee gotta race have fun

 

[notuptome]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

My beliefs are based on the Scripture and on the Saint Tradition(2 John 1, 12). I am an eastern orthodox christian; the fathers of our church say that the christian teachings were transmitted not only through letters but also orally. The christian orthodox church is the oldest church. In 1054 the Church had split into Catholic Church, or western church, on one hand and into Christian Orthodox Church (or eastern church) on the other hand. After this split, there was another split whithin the catholic church - here comes the protestants (Luther was the starter) and there comes another split whithin the protestants - the neoprotestants. The "sola scriptura" concept occured when the catholic church made abuse of its power and started to act more like a political entity than like a theological one. So, if I don't have any evident Scripture support for my opinions is maybe because they are from the Saint Tradition.

Oral traditions or traditions of any kind are difficult. They are especially dangerous when they clearly contradict what is written in the bible. I believe it is unwise to place any traditions or church teaching above the bible or even of equal authority to the bible. Scripture does declare itself sufficient. 2 Tim 3:15-17

Church traditions are fine for determining if the worship service is formal or casual but the foundational doctrines are from the scriptures alone.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

Regardless of what/how you believe, how is this reconciled between us? It is this that is lacking in the world.

What good is it if we agree and both are wrong? If we fail to agree with God we have most miserably failed. God sent His Truth into the world and the world preferred it's truth over God's Truth. Go figure.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[just-me]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. [SUP]9 [/SUP]In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. [SUP]12 [/SUP]No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us." 1 John 4:7-12

PS. I always post my verses in red. I think the whole Bible is God's word to us, so I believe the whole Bible should be in red. I also know if I don't see red words in my posts, I am getting off track, and not using the Word of God as my most important source!

This is a very good scripture. Now if everybody interpreted the "love" of God, and the "love" for our fellow man the same way, that would alleviate arguments also. Now that some think that the law of God is extinct, and some people revere the law, there will be major problems in agreement concerning that. Just saying what I have seen. Can't win for loosing. The real problem lies in the fact that the carnal mind has greatly infiltrated the concepts of truth.

Isaiah 59:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.
Romans 3:7-9 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Ephesians 4:25-27 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Neither give place to the devil.

 

[Simona25]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

Simona, I am curious as to which bible you use. I'm assuming a translation into your language of the Greek Septuagint?

It is a version of the Bible that tries to respect as loyal as possible the Greek Septuagint but it also takes in account the Ebraic Version and also confront with other 13 versions (besides the original texts) that are both in Romanian and other languages.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

If I were to follow through with this, I would say the same about your view, but is this important?

You would be seriously wrong.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

The eastern orthodox church try to keep the truth as it was given from the real apostoles. If suddenly, some Joseph Smith would wake up and contradict the Scripture and the Saint Tradition, than yes, you can say that we no longer keep the five folds ministry. But, in a way, we actually try to keep it by not letting Joseph Smith contradict the original truth. In our credo, we say that our church is One, Universal and Apostolic Church. So, you could understand both: that we don't have the five folds ministry or, on the contrary, that we have it.

Unfortunately the Eastern Orthodox church missed the part about preaching the Gospel.

 

[Stephen63]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

Scriptures should never be twisted to fit a person's view, rather one's view should be changed according to what scriptures say.

When a person aligns themselves with a particular camp or theology it affects the way they view all scriptures. They put on a pair of spectacles and only see the scriptures based on their chosen view. A view influences a person to twist certain scriptures, which then leads to the manipulation of others until the bible becomes one big confusing mess, but the person viewing it with their chosen view still does not see how they have drifted far far away.

It was this site that exposed me to all of the major divisions among believers, especially theologies of men, and it's become more evident that theologies dramatically change the way a person views all the scriptures.

This I think is the majority of the problems, Katy. The scriptures speaks of this:
2 Timothy 3:1-9 (KJV) 1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

We don't seem to see such people falling under this description, but if you will stop and take a close look, more than you think falls under this category.

Lovers of their own selves- self righteous and never wrong.
covetous- of being the answer man
boasters, proud- take pride in their "knowledge"
blasphemers- their personal views blaspheme God's word
trucebreakers- Their doctrine break their covenant with God
false accusers - accusing true believers of heresy
despisers of those that are good- belittles & mocks true believers
Traitors- end up being against the very God they believe they serve (Saul of Taursus)
heady, highminded- cannot be convinced of the truth..... they think they are the only one with true knowledge
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.- dedicated to their religion & doctrine, but not God. Also denies that God's power to work in the church is mostly gone.
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth- speaks for itself
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith- They will resist no matter how much scripture you show them
But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was- everyone who know the truth can see the obvious, but they can't. They can 't go any farther than arguing their beliefs into the ground.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

Unfortunately the Eastern Orthodox church missed the part about preaching the Gospel.

The word preach actually means proclaim. Are you suggesting that they are not faithful witnesses proclaiming the death and resurrection of Christ, which is the gospel?

 

[nathan3]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

I find that most often, both parties aren't really wrong......just at different levels of understanding......which will appear "wrong" to those at a different level than the one posting...........What is right for one at that particular point in their walk with Christ, might not be right for another at a different point in their walk with Christ.......

I understand that happens a lot and can be the case. I been trying to keep that in mind more often when I might talk to different people..... On the other hand you do have things like people babbling and rapture, and doom and gloom teachings, all just don't aline with scripture very well, or not at all.

 

[Praus]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

Unfortunately the Eastern Orthodox church missed the part about preaching the Gospel.

The word preach actually means proclaim. Are you suggesting that they are not faithful witnesses proclaiming the death and resurrection of Christ, which is the gospel?

Proclaim with a baseball bat?

Priest Smacked Her Around for Years, Woman Says | Pokrov

Priest Smacked Her Around for Years, Woman Says
Author: Rose Bouboushian
Date Published: 10/07/2013
Publication: Courthouse News Service

(CN) – An Antiochian priest kicked, bit, slapped, hit with a baseball bat and sexually abused a parishioner during her so-called therapy sessions, she claims in court.

Susan Manter, of Holden, Mass., sued the Rev. Michael Abdelahad, St. George’s Antiochian Orthodox Cathedral of Worcester; three Antiochian Orthodox Christian archdioceses; and 13 individuals associated with those organizations in Worcester Superior Court.

From 2007 to September 2010, Abdelahad, “under the ruse of providing to the plaintiff Susan Manter psychological ‘therapy,’ hit, kicked, bit and slapped the plaintiff in the body and head with his hands, fists, feet, and objects (including a baseball bat), resulting in serious bodily injury,” the complaint states (parentheses in original).

Neither the church nor diocese returned a request for comment.

Manter further alleges that “Abdelahad abused plaintiff physically, emotionally, and sexually” from 2009 to September 2010.

The abuse “typically occurred” in the priest’s church office in Worcester, Manter says.

“Plaintiff sustained broken bones, concussions, and other serious bodily injuries as a result of the physical harm inflicted upon her by defendant Michael Abdelahad, requiring hospitalization, multiple trips to doctors, and multiple trips to dentists,” according to the complaint.

“Plaintiff sustained serious emotional and psychological injuries as a result of the physical, sexual, and emotional harm inflicted upon her by defendant Michael Abdelahad, requiring hospitalization,” Manter claims.

The defendants allegedly “knew or should have known of the abuse sustained by plaintiff by defendant Michael Abdelahad.”

The Worcester Telegram & Gazette reported last year reported that Abdelahad was sentenced to 90 days of a two-year prison term after being found guilty in a bench trial of physically abusing a female parishioner during counseling sessions. Abdelahad is named in the article as Charles Michael Abdelahad.

Manter asserts claims for negligence, therapeutic malpractice, assault and battery, and emotional distress, and seeks damages and a jury trial.

She is represented by Dana Lauer with Stephen Gordon & Associates in Worcester.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

Proclaim with a baseball bat?

Priest Smacked Her Around for Years, Woman Says | Pokrov

Oh I didn't realize that the Eastern Orthodox Church is just one priest. I'm sure glad there are no abuses in the Protestant world!

 

[Praus]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

Oh I didn't realize that the Eastern Orthodox Church is just one priest. I'm sure glad there are no abuses in the Protestant world!

Toronto police lay 7 more sex assault charges against Orthodox priest | Pokrov

Toronto police lay 7 more sex assault charges against Orthodox priest
Author: The Canadian Press
Date Published: 10/30/2013
Publication: CTV Toronto (Toronto ON Canada)

TORONTO — Toronto police say a Romanian Orthodox priest is facing seven more sexual assault charges in addition to one laid earlier this month.

Ioan Pop, 54, of Toronto was arrested in early September and charged with one count of sexual assault after a woman was allegedly assaulted at All Saints Romanian Orthodox Church in the city’s east end.

At the time police released a photograph and said they believed there may be more victims.

Det. Teresa Curtis of the sex crimes unit says several more women have since come forward with allegations against Pop, who is now charged with eight counts of sexual assault and one count of forcible confinement.

She says the new charges relate to alleged incidents that happened between 2005 and 2011 and that the additional seven complainants were between 24 and 43 years old at the time of the alleged offences.

Curtis says Pop is in custody.

Police still believe there may be more complainants and are asking anyone with any further information to come forward.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

Toronto police lay 7 more sex assault charges against Orthodox priest | Pokrov

OK... two priests then.

 

[Praus]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

OK... two priests then.

A choir...


[video=youtube;y6EurgsdeF8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6EurgsdeF8[/video]

 

[Starcrash]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

Toronto police lay 7 more sex assault charges against Orthodox priest | Pokrov

Correlation doesn't prove causation. No number of examples will ever be able to prove your point logically... you'd have to demonstrate how Eastern Orthodox faith necessarily leads to evil.

Besides, HeRoseFromTheDead could come up with similar examples from your own faith, whatever specific branch of Christianity that is. I'm sure that even you accept that your fellow Christians still sin, and that doesn't prove that their faith is "wrong".

 

[Praus]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

Correlation doesn't prove causation. No number of examples will ever be able to prove your point logically... you'd have to demonstrate how Eastern Orthodox faith necessarily leads to evil.

Jesus Christ warned us about mendacious worldviews.

Matt 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Besides, HeRoseFromTheDead could come up with similar examples from your own faith, whatever specific branch of Christianity that is.

Similar examples? Really?

I'm sure that even you accept that your fellow Christians still sin, and that doesn't prove that their faith is "wrong"

I suggest that once someone is ordained by a church in some capacity, like priesthood, it's time to stop beating people with a baseball bat--people don't typically go church seeking a Wilhelm Reich experience.

 

[notuptome]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

How did this devolve into a bashing of others? Get back on track or go home.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[just-me]

Re: Why don't the "Christians" here, use the scriptures to support their statements?

Everything concerning the way we identify the Words of God brings argument within the Christian realm in this day. Isn't that amazing? I've always said to myself, that if there seems to be a contradiction within the Word of God, there has to be a misunderstanding on my part. So when ever you see and argument, and read the scriptures being presented, (if any) use the common sense that God has given, and judge yourself by that with the truth of the Word of God. Don't make the mistake of judging the Word according to your own understanding.
Proverbs 6:18-19 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 20:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?