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K
I am really enjoying how everyone is putting forth his/her opinion, especially using the Bible to support it. I am learning a lot, but let's be very well aware that there is only one truth to this matter (at least, I think so). We need to be open-minded enough to see what others are saying, so as to sincerely compare our own thoughts and see if, maybe, they get the right idea and their answer(s) is(are) BETTER.
I gave two specific options, but the reason I left the third option opened to anyone's choice is because, although options 1 & 2 have very plausible significance to this particular situation under discussion, and I don't think anyone can really disregard that; however, the question still stands, "What is the MAJOR reason?" If the two options are plausible reasons, which one is major; if both are plausible but none is major to the other, then what other reason do you think is major?
NOTE: Another reason I decided to comment at this point, other than to reiterate the reason for this question and to put our mind back on the main goal of getting the one and absolute correct answer (which I believe there is), is that I am beginning to sense a little bit of tensed remarks from some people (I hope to be very careful and lenient with the aforementioned statement). So once again, please be courteous.
Thank you all very much for your time and for the inputs. Truly, "in multitude of counsellors, there is safety" (Proverbs 11:44; 24:6)
Let's keep it coming....
I gave two specific options, but the reason I left the third option opened to anyone's choice is because, although options 1 & 2 have very plausible significance to this particular situation under discussion, and I don't think anyone can really disregard that; however, the question still stands, "What is the MAJOR reason?" If the two options are plausible reasons, which one is major; if both are plausible but none is major to the other, then what other reason do you think is major?
NOTE: Another reason I decided to comment at this point, other than to reiterate the reason for this question and to put our mind back on the main goal of getting the one and absolute correct answer (which I believe there is), is that I am beginning to sense a little bit of tensed remarks from some people (I hope to be very careful and lenient with the aforementioned statement). So once again, please be courteous.
Thank you all very much for your time and for the inputs. Truly, "in multitude of counsellors, there is safety" (Proverbs 11:44; 24:6)
Let's keep it coming....
W
I'm sorry if I by pass your Question. I think Cain's heart was Murder and jealousy towards Abel. This would also be a type of Satan and his heart,just as Abel is a type of Christ and god's love. In the fulfillment of Gods purposes all this will be revealed ,the man of sin, and the love and salvation of God There is really no outward thing that would condemn Cain. God said sin was lying at the door. I think that "and unto thee shall be his desire,and thou shall rule over him' is God saying Cain would take dominion over Abel and kill him.
W
Cobus Neither Abel's or satans sin, but ,Cains sin lieth at the door if he doest not well. I did not know we were in a contest!!! Are you trying to win a contest?" and unto you shall be his desire,and thou shall rule over him" To me this says that Cain will have power over Abel's desire and Cain will dominate over him. Cain had power over Abel and killed him. This was the sin lying at Cain's door.Yes I am 58 . why is that so amazing to you? Another thought, maybe Cain's real issue was jealousy over Abel's acceptance, I think Satan s sin, or one of them, was jealousy. He wanted to be the highest and most noted. He wanted to be the highest making himself God. Maybe Cain is a type of Satan even in his killing the righteous one . Back to you Cobus, you seem so combative. I think If you are here "to win" or be "the most right" you heart is not in the right place before God. I was trying to convey what I thought God was shewing to me ,that's all. May the peace of God rule your
W
I did not know sin had desires. When lust (desire) hath conceived it bringeth forth sin. Gen.3:16 God speaking to Eve, And thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. ( same Hebrew word) or maybe "unto thy husband shall be eves desire????OR maybe "unto Cain shall be Abel's desire???? The sin lying at the door was the murder of Abel by Cain that God was for telling .God was telling Cain exactly what he was going to do. In my opinion. God said " thou SHALT rule over him"not if you choose, you can rule over you sinful desire!! That's just how I see it ,maybe mistaken!! Gen 27:41 And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing where with his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart.....then will I slay my brother.
Genesis 4:1-7
4*And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
The bible also says that Cain is of his father satan. Either Eve lied, the book is in contrast or our understanding is off base.
2*And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
His father was ALSO a tiller of the ground.
3*And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
"in the process of time" cain, like his father Adam a tiller of the ground (cursed) brought of the fruit of the ground. What is the fruit of a cursed ground?
Galatians 5:19-21
19*Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20*Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21*Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
God has no respect for this fruit, being signified in the TRUE process of time by the death and resurrection of Christ.
4*And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
If abel ALSO brought of the firstlings of his flock, then cain did as well. But his fruit was of the Spirit. Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. This fruit brings the GREATER increase or the "fat" thereof.
5*But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
6*And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7*If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
4*And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
The bible also says that Cain is of his father satan. Either Eve lied, the book is in contrast or our understanding is off base.
2*And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
His father was ALSO a tiller of the ground.
3*And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
"in the process of time" cain, like his father Adam a tiller of the ground (cursed) brought of the fruit of the ground. What is the fruit of a cursed ground?
Galatians 5:19-21
19*Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20*Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21*Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
God has no respect for this fruit, being signified in the TRUE process of time by the death and resurrection of Christ.
4*And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
If abel ALSO brought of the firstlings of his flock, then cain did as well. But his fruit was of the Spirit. Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. This fruit brings the GREATER increase or the "fat" thereof.
5*But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
6*And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7*If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
The same message is taught throughout the Bible regarding the desire of sin. God told Cain to rule over temptation, likewise we are to do the same.
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Psa 81:11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.
Psa 81:12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.
1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Rom_6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom_13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Eph_2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Psa 81:11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.
Psa 81:12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.
1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Rom_6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom_13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Eph_2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
G
Cain did sin, Cain received 'death,' just like Romans 6:23 says, 'For the wages of sin is death.'
However, Cain's death was getting banished from the land as a vagabond and a wanderer. It may have ended up worse for Cain, no, I can surely say it would have ended up worse but when God told Cain his punishment, Cain said that it was too much to bear, that everyone seeing him would kill him. So, because Cain had FAITH IN GOD by letting God know his punishment was too much to bear, God then listened to Cain and gave Cain a mark on his head so that anyone seeing him would not kill him. Not only is this 'death' forgiven by God, as I see it, for just stated reason, but also it says that Cain went and built a city. I am not sure exactly what that means but it does mean that Cain built a city
This does seem like God listened to Cain and even so blessed Cain, who had a wife and a child too when he got older. This does not excuse what Cain did, murdering his brother, he suffered much for it, but, it does all this PUT a real perspective into our forgiving God, who tells us all to forgive someone who has wronged you 70x7 times.
However, Cain's death was getting banished from the land as a vagabond and a wanderer. It may have ended up worse for Cain, no, I can surely say it would have ended up worse but when God told Cain his punishment, Cain said that it was too much to bear, that everyone seeing him would kill him. So, because Cain had FAITH IN GOD by letting God know his punishment was too much to bear, God then listened to Cain and gave Cain a mark on his head so that anyone seeing him would not kill him. Not only is this 'death' forgiven by God, as I see it, for just stated reason, but also it says that Cain went and built a city. I am not sure exactly what that means but it does mean that Cain built a city
This does seem like God listened to Cain and even so blessed Cain, who had a wife and a child too when he got older. This does not excuse what Cain did, murdering his brother, he suffered much for it, but, it does all this PUT a real perspective into our forgiving God, who tells us all to forgive someone who has wronged you 70x7 times.
G
Excellent answer, stilledwater.
Cain did not 'do good,' either, because God said, '“Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7If you do what is
right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is
crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it.”
In this case, Cain needed to have offered all the fruit from his field, instead of 'some.' Or, needed to offer the very best of his fruit pickings, neither of which Cain did. God surely spoke to Cain to reconsider, while Satan was saying something to the effect of: 'Consider this your best offering to God, Cain' even though, Satan knew it was not Cain's best.
Then, when sin fruited, so to speak, it led to death, Abel's, and, Cain's, who was punished by God. What I liked, as I said in my above post, Cain was not exactly acceptive of his punishment but he was respectful to God and not just spouting off like a rebellious child. He just asked God to lessen the punishment because of the magnitude of it, he was acceptive of it, actually, but he was true to God, saying his punishment was too much to bear.
Cain did not 'do good,' either, because God said, '“Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7If you do what is
right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is
crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it.”
In this case, Cain needed to have offered all the fruit from his field, instead of 'some.' Or, needed to offer the very best of his fruit pickings, neither of which Cain did. God surely spoke to Cain to reconsider, while Satan was saying something to the effect of: 'Consider this your best offering to God, Cain' even though, Satan knew it was not Cain's best.
Then, when sin fruited, so to speak, it led to death, Abel's, and, Cain's, who was punished by God. What I liked, as I said in my above post, Cain was not exactly acceptive of his punishment but he was respectful to God and not just spouting off like a rebellious child. He just asked God to lessen the punishment because of the magnitude of it, he was acceptive of it, actually, but he was true to God, saying his punishment was too much to bear.
As I understand it, Cain's heart was not right. Abel was righteous by faith, but Cain was trying to please God on his own terms.
Hebrews 11:4: "By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous"
Hebrews 11:6: "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him"
Yet God still gave Cain a second chance.... Genesis 4:6-7: "So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted?"
Cain had wickedness, pride and hate in his heart, which is why he killed Abel. His actions revealed his heart.
There are many future scriptures that liken people to the ways of Cain, as follows.....
1 John 3:10-12: "In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous"
(Old & New Apostates)
Jude 1:11: "Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah"
Hebrews 11:4: "By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous"
Hebrews 11:6: "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him"
Yet God still gave Cain a second chance.... Genesis 4:6-7: "So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted?"
Cain had wickedness, pride and hate in his heart, which is why he killed Abel. His actions revealed his heart.
There are many future scriptures that liken people to the ways of Cain, as follows.....
1 John 3:10-12: "In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous"
(Old & New Apostates)
Jude 1:11: "Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah"