Will Christ set up His literal Kingdom on earth in the future?

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Ahwatukee

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For those who buy into whole of the Pre Trib Dispensationalist view a literal 1000 year earthly kingdom is essential because without it their whole 'house of cards' collapses.


That is not true tanakh! The information regarding the gathering of the church is not dependent upon the millennial period. The gathering of the church is however, dependent upon this event taking place prior to God's wrath being poured out. If you remove the millennial period, the gathering of the church must still take place prior to God's wrath, therefore your assumption is just that, an assumption. The millennial kingdom is just what follows the time of God's tribulation.

The foundational belief is that there are two separate plans of salvation for Jews and Gentiles In this system Jews can be saved by observance of the Law which includes a Temple, animal sacrifices and Priesthood.


The church is made up of both Jew and Gentile and is a separate dispensation from the nation Israel. God has unfinished business with Israel, namely that last seven years of the seventy seven sets of seven years that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem as revealed in Daniel 9:24, which you guy's continue to not understand and reject. What God has written in His word must take place. That said, the following must take place regarding Israel:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,He will remove godlessness from Jacob.And this is My covenant with themwhen I take away their sins.”

Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.

Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.For God has consigned all men to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am amazed at the amount of so-called Christian's who are against Israel, stating that God has abandoned them and is no longer concerned with them. This is the equivalent of boasting against the branches. Anyone with this belief is an enemy of Israel and God. It puts the believer at odds with the Lord, because they are his chosen people, for it is written "all nations will be blessed through you." If anything, prophecy regarding them is currently being fulfilled. They're back in their land and are a nation after almost 2000 years. It was a desert wasteland and now it is flourishing land of abundance. And the nations hate Israel just as scripture says they would. President Trump did not sign the waiver and thereby recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, which is very significant.

God told Abraham regarding Israel "I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

Those words above are still in operation. Therefore, if I were you I would reconsider my position regarding Israel.

The promised gathering of the church is quickly approaching, which you and others do not believe in nor anticipating, is just about to take place. When it does, then you will know that we had the truth of God's word.


 
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Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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For those who buy into whole of the Pre Trib Dispensationalist view a literal 1000 year earthly kingdom is essential because without it their whole 'house of cards' collapses.
That's just silly. The Resurrection-Rapture has nothing to do with the Millennium, and Bible doctrine is not a *house of cards*. Just as the Rapture is embedded in Scripture, so in the Millennium, but they are not connected.

(quote) The foundational belief is that there are two separate plans of salvation for Jews and Gentiles In this system Jews can be saved by observance of the Law which includes a Temple, animal sacrifices and Priesthood. (quote)

This too is nonsensical. Why don t you just sit down and do a proper study of Ezekiel and the other prophets (Q) You might learn some things which you have never considered.
 

tanakh

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That is not true tanakh! The information regarding the gathering of the church is not dependent upon the millennial period. The gathering of the church is however, dependent upon this event taking place prior to God's wrath being poured out. If you remove the millennial period, the gathering of the church must still take place prior to God's wrath, therefore your assumption is just that, an assumption. The millennial kingdom is just what follows the time of God's tribulation.



The church is made up of both Jew and Gentile and is a separate dispensation from the nation Israel. God has unfinished business with Israel, namely that last seven years of the seventy seven sets of seven years that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem as revealed in Daniel 9:24, which you guy's continue to not understand and reject. What God has written in His word must take place. That said, the following must take place regarding Israel:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,He will remove godlessness from Jacob.And this is My covenant with themwhen I take away their sins.”

Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.

Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.For God has consigned all men to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am amazed at the amount of so-called Christian's who are against Israel, stating that God has abandoned them and is no longer concerned with them. This is the equivalent of boasting against the branches. Anyone with this belief is an enemy of Israel and God. It puts the believer at odds with the Lord, because they are his chosen people, for it is written "all nations will be blessed through you." If anything, prophecy regarding them is currently being fulfilled. They're back in their land and are a nation after almost 2000 years. It was a desert wasteland and now it is flourishing land of abundance. And the nations hate Israel just as scripture says they would. President Trump did not sign the waiver and thereby recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, which is very significant.

God told Abraham regarding Israel "I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

Those words above are still in operation. Therefore, if I were you I would reconsider my position regarding Israel.

The promised gathering of the church is quickly approaching, which you and others do not believe in nor anticipating, is just about to take place. When it does, then you will know that we had the truth of God's word.


Your answer is so predictable.. The original dispensational teaching as taught by Irvin, Darby and Schofield who made all this nonsense popular through his 1909 notes was grounded on the concept of two separate methods of salvation for the Jews and Gentiles. It was claimed that the Church was only created because the Jews rejected Christs offer of the kingdom and that
the rapture was to remove the church so that God could once again concentrate on Israel.

It is a pity that you don't do some background reading on the history of this system. From reading past posts It appears according to you it all came from just reading the Bible and not from any other source whatsoever. I have some doubts as
to this Pauline experience. After having a vision of Jesus and spending three years in Arabia even he went to consult the Disciples to check that what he was teaching was accurate.

You keep banging on about Gods wrath which falls only on unbelievers and the Jews who without the protection of the Holy Spirit manage to survive it. Its strange that God has to resort to removing the Church to protect it but not them. According to this scenario the Holy Spirit leaves at the rapture. The truth is that the rapture happens at the one and only second coming as Peter says Christ remains in Heaven until the culmination of all things which to any sane person would include Gods wrath and not before.
 
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Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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Your answer is so predictable.. The original dispensational teaching as taught by Irvin, Darby and Schofield who made all this nonsense popular through his 1909 notes was grounded on the concept of two separate methods of salvation for the Jews and Gentiles.


As is your response above. And as I have made clear in so many times in the past, I have yet to read anything by any of those mentioned above. My understanding of these two dispensation's comes from scripture. I can plainly see the promises to Israel as well as the program for the church. How do you explain what I posted regarding what Paul said regarding Israel? He said that a partial hardening has come upon Israel. Just as God had mercy on us Gentiles when we were disobedient, so now Israel has been given over to disobedience so that God may also have mercy upon them. Not only that, but the angel Gabriel made Israel's position with God very clear:

"
You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” - Luke 1:31

Now either the above is true and must take place regarding Israel, or God lied when He wrote it. Which one do you think it is?

As I have said many times before, I do not come to my conclusions by the teachings of men, but from the word of God. You and others on the other hand seem to repeat what you read from the writings of men and what you hear.

I have some doubts as to this Pauline experience. After having a vision of Jesus and spending three years in Arabia even he went to consult the Disciples to check that what he was teaching was accurate.


Now you are treading on thin ice regarding what you said about Paul. Scripture also has an answer for those who are against Paul and that because the words that he wrote are the Lord's word. If you are against Paul, you are against the Lord.

"
Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

So let's see:

1) You are against Israel because you claim that they are no longer God's people

2) You are not having faith in the blessed hope, the promise of the Lord to gather his church prior to his wrath

3) You have doubts about Paul's letters as being God-breathed

Not too good tanakh! You definitely need to seek God on these things, because they do not put you in good standing with Him.

I have nothing against you or anyone at all on this site. My only desire is that you and others would believe these Biblical truths regarding these issues. However, I do adamantly contend for the truth of God's word when I see it being falsely taught. The world is full of false teachers and teachings and God's word is being distorted on just about every Biblical topic in these last days. Therefore someone needs to proclaim the truth in the midst of all the lies.

ou keep banging on about Gods wrath which falls only on unbelievers and the Jews who without the protection of the Holy Spirit manage to survive it. Its strange that God has to resort to removing the Church to protect it but not them.


As I continue to teach, God pronounced seventy seven sets of years upon Israel. Sixty-nine of those where fulfilled when the Messiah was cut off/crucified. At that time God put a hold on that last seven years to be fulfilled in conjunction with the end of the age and began to build his church. Once the church has been completed, the Lord will gather his church taking them back to the Father's house. Following that God will pick up right where he left off in fulfillment of that last seven years in fulfillment of Daniel 9:24.

I hope that you will truly consider these issues, because I can tell you without a doubt that your belief is in serious error with what you are believing above.
 
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As is your response above. And as I have made clear in so many times in the past, I have yet to read anything by any of those mentioned above. My understanding of these two dispensation's comes from scripture. I can plainly see the promises to Israel as well as the program for the church. How do you explain what I posted regarding what Paul said regarding Israel? He said that a partial hardening has come upon Israel. Just as God had mercy on us Gentiles when we were disobedient, so now Israel has been given over to disobedience so that God may also have mercy upon them. Not only that, but the angel Gabriel made Israel's position with God very clear:
Two dispensation's? Did you mean the reformed one restored at the time of reformation when that previous time period as a parable was over?. It brought great tribulation for the outward Jew as never before in history it remains today shown by the wailing wall . The time of Jacobs trouble.

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure(parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them “until the time of reformation”. Heb 9:8

Regarding Israel a word that denotes those regardless of the flesh who wrestles with God and man and overcome as in all Israel do not have the born again Spirit of Christ in them. But rather just those one that are born again as an inward Jew born of the “Spirit of Christ”.

The gospel has nothing to do with pitting the flesh of one nation against another .Our father is the Holy one father of many nations to include the Jews.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:9

There simply is no such thing as working diffidently in different dispensations. We walk by the faith of Christ that works in us to both will and perform his good pleasure .Why murmur as if we walked by sight, in respect to an outward Jew?

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by (work of His) faith. Act 15:7
 
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In order for Jesus to have returned, you would have to ignore the above. And that's just one of many of the characteristics that will exist during the millennial period. Here's are some others:
I would think some ignore the fact the veil is rent for the one time outward demonstration of the work of His Spirit, as the Son of God, not seen. we are not to commit faith to the things the eyes see.

We walk or understand by faith, the unseen eternal, not by sight after the temporal as that seen. It’s the goal of the father of lies to turn that upside down

It is more like now you see me because I clothed myself in temporal flesh that can die for an outward demonstration of the Son of God not seen using the temporal corrupted flesh of the Son of man seen .

Sort of like now you see me, now you do not ....a disappearing act..using the Son of man as that seen and the Son of God the comforter not seen

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. Joh 14:1

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.2Corinthians 5:16

No fleshly Jesus We have his authority in these earthen bodies of death but would never assume it, the faith of Christ could be after us.

As the Son of man as that seen, by the Spirit of Christ not seen He resisted any attempt of making the Son of God seen in respect to the Son of God not seen. When being worshipped as good teacher . jesus as the Son of man would answer only God not seen is good. From the moment he finished the outward demonstration he informs us even though some did see him we know him no more forever more after the ‘ flesh ‘In the twinkling of the eye when he disappeared out of sight he showed him self working in man to both will and do His good pleasure. Some are waiting for him to appear as the Son of man as if
God was a man as us. We continue to walk by the unseen eternal and not after that seen the temporal . The one time demonstration is over . Some still hear the bleating of sheep.

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith (Christ's) , not by sight:)
 

Nehemiah6

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We continue to walk by the unseen eternal and not after that seen the temporal . The one time demonstration is over . Some still hear the bleating of sheep.
What you are forgetting is that we do not walk by faith eternally. There comes a day when all the saints see Christ face to face, appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ, become a part of the Lamb's Wife, and descend with Christ and His holy angels to earth. Then live and reign with Christ eternally.

One cannot take what is applicable BETWEEN the first and second comings of Christ and apply it to what happen AFTER the Resurrection/Rapture and the Marriage of the Lamb. Evidently you have accepted the Preterist ideas without checking them out for yourself. They are COMPLETELY DELUSIONAL.
 

tanakh

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As is your response above. And as I have made clear in so many times in the past, I have yet to read anything by any of those mentioned above. My understanding of these two dispensation's comes from scripture. I can plainly see the promises to Israel as well as the program for the church. How do you explain what I posted regarding what Paul said regarding Israel? He said that a partial hardening has come upon Israel. Just as God had mercy on us Gentiles when we were disobedient, so now Israel has been given over to disobedience so that God may also have mercy upon them. Not only that, but the angel Gabriel made Israel's position with God very clear:

"[/COLOR]You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” - Luke 1:31

Now either the above is true and must take place regarding Israel, or God lied when He wrote it. Which one do you think it is?

As I have said many times before, I do not come to my conclusions by the teachings of men, but from the word of God. You and others on the other hand seem to repeat what you read from the writings of men and what you hear.



Now you are treading on thin ice regarding what you said about Paul. Scripture also has an answer for those who are against Paul and that because the words that he wrote are the Lord's word. If you are against Paul, you are against the Lord.

"
Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

So let's see:

1) You are against Israel because you claim that they are no longer God's people

2) You are not having faith in the blessed hope, the promise of the Lord to gather his church prior to his wrath

3) You have doubts about Paul's letters as being God-breathed

Not too good tanakh! You definitely need to seek God on these things, because they do not put you in good standing with Him.

I have nothing against you or anyone at all on this site. My only desire is that you and others would believe these Biblical truths regarding these issues. However, I do adamantly contend for the truth of God's word when I see it being falsely taught. The world is full of false teachers and teachings and God's word is being distorted on just about every Biblical topic in these last days. Therefore someone needs to proclaim the truth in the midst of all the lies.



As I continue to teach, God pronounced seventy seven sets of years upon Israel. Sixty-nine of those where fulfilled when the Messiah was cut off/crucified. At that time God put a hold on that last seven years to be fulfilled in conjunction with the end of the age and began to build his church. Once the church has been completed, the Lord will gather his church taking them back to the Father's house. Following that God will pick up right where he left off in fulfillment of that last seven years in fulfillment of Daniel 9:24.

I hope that you will truly consider these issues, because I can tell you without a doubt that your belief is in serious error with what you are believing above.
You really should read replies to your posts properly before answering because it is obvious to me that you didn't with my last response. Lets go over your accusations about me.

1 My position regarding Israel is as follows:

The true Israel consists of all those who believe in Christ and are born again of the Holy Spirit, regardless of what nationality they belong to. I said in an earlier posting neither Adam or Abraham were Jewish. Christ is not called the second Adam for nothing. Paul said there is no Jew and Gentile and that we are all one in Christ Jesus. Christ stated that he had sheep not of this fold and that there would be one fold with one Shepherd. His Disciples were all Jewish. He called Nathaniel a TRUE ISRAELITE which would infer that there were false ones. The early church was led by Jews in Jerusalem up until AD70 down the centuries there have been many Jewish Christians. Which dispensational camp do they fit in with, Israel or the Church? Talking of Israel where do the Jewish Diaspora fit in, do they all have to emigrate to qualify? There is only one way to salvation as Jesus said of himself I am the way the truth and the light NO MAN can come to the Father except by me
The Bible teaches that a remnant of Jews will be saved, but through belief in Christ not by Israeli citizenship.

Where you get the idea that I have anything against Paul just illustrates how little you pay attention to other peoples posts. It wasn't Paul I was attacking but YOU. No one with hand on heart can honestly state they have not been influenced in what they believe. It could be from Books, A Pastors Preaching, Other Church members or some other input. For you to say that you have got your view just by studying the Bible beggars belief. The whole system is too complex for someone to just come to it with no other influence. My reference to Paul was my way of suggesting that by insisting on this you appear to suggest that you alone have no need to consult anyone or anything to confirm your position outside the Bible. Unlike him who despite his amazing experiences stillmade sure his message was correct. He says so himself

Daniels weeks
If you read the text properly you will find that Messiah the Prince is cut off (Crucified) after the 69th week not in it. It happens in the 70th week which according to my numerical knowledge would follow the 69th without 2000 plus years in between. The 70th week started with him being annointed at his Baptism. His crucifiction took place halfway through the week.

To sum up the only thin ice I have been on lately has been due to the nasty whether we have been having in the UK
 
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Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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The true Israel consists of all those who believe in Christ and are born again of the Holy Spirit, regardless of what nationality they belong to.
God is also going to deal with the literal nation of Israel during that last seven years. As I said before, the church is made up of both Jew and Gentile, which is separate from the nation Israel, who did not recognize Jesus as their Messiah and still consider themselves as being under the law of Moses.

Those of the church both Jew and Gentile, will be removed from the earth according to the promise. After this God is going to deal with the literal nation of Israel, fulfilling that last seven years of the decree.

If you read the text properly you will find that Messiah the Prince is cut off (Crucified) after the 69th week not in it.
The Messiah was cut off at the end of the sixty-ninth seven. I have never said that the Messiah was cut off in the sixty ninth seven. You won't fine me saying that anywhere in any post.

Seven sevens = Restore and rebuild Jerusalem

Sixty two sevens = Equaling sixty nine, at the end of which the Messiah was cut off

One seven = He (antichrist) makes a covenant with Israel for one seven which is still future
 

tanakh

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God is also going to deal with the literal nation of Israel during that last seven years. As I said before, the church is made up of both Jew and Gentile, which is separate from the nation Israel, who did not recognize Jesus as their Messiah and still consider themselves as being under the law of Moses.

Those of the church both Jew and Gentile, will be removed from the earth according to the promise. After this God is going to deal with the literal nation of Israel, fulfilling that last seven years of the decree.



The Messiah was cut off at the end of the sixty-ninth seven. I have never said that the Messiah was cut off in the sixty ninth seven. You won't fine me saying that anywhere in any post.

Seven sevens = Restore and rebuild Jerusalem

Sixty two sevens = Equaling sixty nine, at the end of which the Messiah was cut off

One seven = He (antichrist) makes a covenant with Israel for one seven which is still future
And AFTER three score and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off but not for himself
and the people of the Prince that shall come shall destroy destroy the City and the
sanctuary.

And he shall CONFIRM the the Covenant with many for one week and in the midst
of the week he shall CAUSE the Sacrifice and oblation to cease

Daniel 9 .26-27 KJV

Please note that the text says After three score and two weeks. There is a huge difference between something happening at an end and happening after

Christs ministry lasted three and a half years and then he was crucified. Leading up to that event He confirmed the New Covenant. Again there is a huge difference between making something and confirming it. The covenant was already promised through Jeremiah. Jesus confirmed it. His death and resurrection caused the oblations and Sacrifices to cease. This did not happen immediately but they were null and void as soon as Christ died. Thats why the Temple Veil was torn apart. They actually ceased in AD70.

The People of the Prince

Christ is called Messiah the Prince in Daniel 9.25

Peter called him Prince and Saviour Acts 5.31

The Roman Army that made the Temple an Abomination of Desolation in AD 70 were the people of the Prince
They were used to judge Israel just as the Babylonian army were used by God for the same purpose

There is no mention of an Antichrist in the Daniel passage nor is there any mention of an Antichrist in the Daniel passage
You can search all you like and not find any mention of a huge 2000 plus year gap between week 69 and 70.
 
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tanakh

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Please note the repeat typo in my 110 post remains because of the unsatisfactory 5 minute ruling which should be extended or got rid of.
 

TMS

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Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Dispensationalism has formed this false doctrine about the 70th week. The 70th week has pasted.
vs 25 "unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:" the messiah would come after 69 weeks, and Jesus was baptized exactly at the right time and announced His mission. In the middle of the 70th week the messiah was cut off. "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease," He was cut off which meant the sacrifices and offerings came to an end.
The disciples were told to go first to the house of Israel but most rejected their message and the temple was destroyed as a result. 1Pe_4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.



There is no biblical way to prove that the 70th week is in the future, it is a false teaching of futurism. Are you making the same mistake that most of Israel was made, Are you looking for a kingdom here on Earth, when Jesus said to store your treasures in Heaven.
Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
 

TMS

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To answer the question of this thread, Yes God will set up His kingdom here on earth but not until there 1000 years have past.
The first resurrection = the saved going with Jesus to be with Him in Heaven, He has a mansion prepared for us in heaven where He is now. The unsaved are raised after 1000 years (2nd resurrection), they die from the brightness of His coming (no second chance), and than God will come to the Earth in the heavenly city with the saved, and destroy all that is sinful and recreate the earth new.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.



Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.



It isn't in order because that's how it was written in those days' but you can put it together and see the order.
 

Ahwatukee

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To answer the question of this thread, Yes God will set up His kingdom here on earth but not until there 1000 years have past.


Hello TMS,

The thousand years is the kingdom. After that is the great white throne judgment and then the new heaven, new earth and the new Jerusalem.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


The resurrection mentioned in Rev.20:5 is of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history. The first resurrection is of the great tribulation saints and not the church.
 
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Ahwatukee

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Dispensationalism has formed this false doctrine about the 70th week. The 70th week has pasted.


You can't have the last seven years as being past without literal fulfillment. No seven year agreement was established with Israel by the antichrist, no abomination has been set up in the temple from the time that Jesus quoted Daniel until the time the temple was destoyed, ergo, this event is still future, which God is going pick up with right where he left off once the church has been removed. Not only that, but at the end of the seven years is when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom. And we certainly haven't seen that fulfilled yet.

There is no biblical way to prove that the 70th week is in the future, it is a false teaching of futurism. Are you making the same mistake that most of Israel was made, Are you looking for a kingdom here on Earth, when Jesus said to store your treasures in Heaven.


There is a Biblical way to prove it, which is that there has been no literal fulfillment of those events of that last seven years, which means that they must still be fulfilled. You would also have to explain Rev.19:6-8, which reveals the Bride/church in heaven receiving her fine linen at the wedding of the Lamb and then following the Lord out of heaven to the earth to end the age riding on white horses. It would demonstrate that the bride/church is already in heaven and will be returning with Christ.
 

TMS

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Chiastic structure, or chiastic pattern, is a literary technique in narrative motifs and other textual passages. An example ofchiastic structure would be two ideas, A and B, together with variants A' and B', being presented as A,B,B',A'.
This was [FONT=arial, sans-serif]employed[/FONT] by the writers of [FONT=arial, sans-serif]revelation[/FONT] and the order isn't [FONT=arial, sans-serif]chronological[/FONT], like we expect but points are repeated and highlighted at different places.

So you need to put it together from the [FONT=arial, sans-serif]description[/FONT], rather than the order. look it up.
 

Ahwatukee

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Chiastic structure, or chiastic pattern, is a literary technique in narrative motifs and other textual passages. An example ofchiastic structure would be two ideas, A and B, together with variants A' and B', being presented as A,B,B',A'.
This was employed by the writers of revelation and the order isn't chronological, like we expect but points are repeated and highlighted at different places.


That is not true! John wrote exactly what he was shown, God is the author. There is nothing in Revelation of John's own influence or imagination. He wrote exactly what he saw and heard. The events of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments listed within chapters 6 thru 18, the Lord's return to the earth in Rev.19:11-15, the beast and the false prophet being thrown into the lake of fire alive in Rev.19:20, Satan being thrown into the Abyss in Rev.20:1-3, the millennial period referred to in Revelation 20:1-7, the resurrection of the great tribulation saints, the end of the millennial period, the great white throne judgment, the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem, are all in chronological order, i.e. they will take place in the same order they appear in print.

The technique of mankind does not apply here. This is God's word.
 

TMS

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There is a Biblical way to prove it, which is that there has been no literal fulfillment of those events of that last seven years, which means that they must still be fulfilled. You would also have to explain Rev.19:6-8, which reveals the Bride/church in heaven receiving her fine linen at the wedding of the Lamb and then following the Lord out of heaven to the earth to end the age riding on white horses. It would demonstrate that the bride/church is already in heaven and will be returning with Christ. [/COLOR]
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

What has not been fulfilled
He (Jesus) confirmed the covenant with many for one week (He preached and did signs and wonders for the Jews and when He left the disciples took over what Jesus was preaching and doing). and in the midst of the week Jesus caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (the blood of offerings was no longer needed and the temple veil was turn) and for the overspreading of abominations He shall make it desolate. It was preached that the sacrifices and offerings was useless from than on and the new covenant was to take it's place. They didn't listen so God let the temple be destroyed.

All was fulfilled. Notice that Paul wasn't asked or the disciples to take the Gospel to the gentiles for about 3 and a half years after Christ died. 1 week was given to the Jews to accept the Messiah, the Gospel and the new covenant.
 

Ahwatukee

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What has not been fulfilled
He (Jesus) confirmed the covenant with many for one week (He preached and did signs and wonders for the Jews and when He left the disciples took over what Jesus was preaching and doing). and in the midst of the week Jesus caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (the blood of offerings was no longer needed and the temple veil was turn) and for the overspreading of abominations He shall make it desolate. It was preached that the sacrifices and offerings was useless from than on and the new covenant was to take it's place. They didn't listen so God let the temple be destroyed.


First of all, Jesus is not the "He" of Daniel 9:27. Grammatically speaking, since the "He" is not identified in the scripture, you would have to go back to the last person mentioned, which is found in Dan.9:26, which is "the ruler" of the people, which is referring to that future antichrist.

Another reason why Jesus cannot be the "He" of the scripture, is because the one mentioned performs the following:

* Confirms a strong covenant with Israel

* In the middle of the seven years "He" puts and end to sacrifices and offerings.

* In the middle of the seven years "He" also sets up the abomination in the holy place

That said, if Jesus were the "He" in the context, he would also be the one who sets up the abomination, which is against God. The word "bdelugma" is defined as a "reeking stench that goes up before God, a
moral horror as a stench to God, an abominable thing, an accursed thing. Therefore, if Jesus was the "He" in the context, he would be setting up the abomination against God blaspheming himself and God the Father. Jesus cannot be the "He" of Daniel 9:27.


 

TMS

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That is not true! John wrote exactly what he was shown, God is the author. There is nothing in Revelation of John's own influence or imagination. He wrote exactly what he saw and heard. The events of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments listed within chapters 6 thru 18, the Lord's return to the earth in Rev.19:11-15, the beast and the false prophet being thrown into the lake of fire alive in Rev.19:20, Satan being thrown into the Abyss in Rev.20:1-3, the millennial period referred to in Revelation 20:1-7, the resurrection of the great tribulation saints, the end of the millennial period, the great white throne judgment, the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem, are all in chronological order, i.e. they will take place in the same order they appear in print.

The technique of mankind does not apply here. This is God's word.

Some sections are in order and some more so than orthers, but some sections are repeated for emphasis. For example.

[TABLE="class: ChiasmSmall"]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"][/TH]
[TH="align: left"][/TH]
[TH="align: left"][/TH]
[TH="align: left"][/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: ChiasmLevel"]A [/TD]
[TD="colspan: 3"]No one can serve two masters;[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: ChiasmLevel"]B [/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]for either he will hate the one[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: ChiasmLevel"]C [/TD]
[TD]and love the other,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: ChiasmLevel"]C′[/TD]
[TD]or he will be devoted to one[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: ChiasmLevel"]B′[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]and despise the other.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: ChiasmLevel"]A′[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 3"]You cannot serve God and wealth.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: verticalaligntop, colspan: 3"](Matt 6:24)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: ChiasmSmall"]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"][/TH]
[TH="align: left"][/TH]
[TH="align: left"][/TH]
[TH="align: left"][/TH]
[TH="align: left"][/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: ChiasmLevel"]A [/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, where are You going?” Jesus answered, “Where I go, you cannot follow Me now; but you will follow later.” (v13:36)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: ChiasmLevel"]B [/TD]
[TD="colspan: 3"]Peter said to Him, “Lord, why can I not follow You right now? I will lay down my life for You.” (v13:37)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: ChiasmLevel"]C [/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Jesus answered, “Will you lay down your life for Me? Truly, truly, I say to you, a rooster will not crow until you deny Me three times. (v13:38)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: ChiasmLevel"]X [/TD]
[TD]“Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. (v14:1)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: ChiasmLevel"]C′[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. (v14:2)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: ChiasmLevel"]B′[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 3"]If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.” (v14:3)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: ChiasmLevel"]A′[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]And you know the way where I am going.” (v14:4)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: verticalaligntop, colspan: 4"](John 13:36-14:4 NASB)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
We can start with the observation that some of the words and phrases at the beginning of Revelation are also found at the end. For example, the phrases “To show his servants the things which must shortly take place” (Revelation 1:1, 22:6) and “The time is near” (Revelation 1:3, 22:10) are not only identical at the beginning and end of the book, but are found nowhere else in Revelation or even in the rest of the Bible. It turns out that there are quite a number of identical or analogous phrases at the beginning and end. This is the first clue that Revelation is organized as a chiasm.

I'm not going to go into detail but if you take time to look up "
chiastic examples in Reverlation" you'll find many web sites that back up what i'm saying.

Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

There is a bit of back and forth in these verses some points repeated and retold, but over all you get the idea.
 
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