"Work out your own salvation ..."

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John146

Senior Member
#121
Jan 13, 2016
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#121
Grace777x70 said:
I have heard this theory before but I just can't see where James would write a letter to the Jews of his day and it really means - this is not for you today - but for some far out time in the future. Are those Jews going to read the NT book of James in this tribulation period?

To me - James is one of the first books to be written and thus it was addressed to the Jews. I doubt that James even knew that the gospel was for the gentiles at this stage.

James is thought to have been written in 49 A.D. prior to the Jerusalem council held in 50 A.d.

Epistle of James | Theopedia

The dispersal had been on for a while. The Pharisees even thought that Jesus was going to go to those in the dispersal.

John 7:35 (NASB)
[SUP]35 [/SUP] The Jews then said to one another, "Where does this man intend to go that we will not find Him? He is not intending to go to the Dispersion among the Greeks, and teach the Greeks, is He?










The Jews then said to one another, "Where does this man intend to go that we will not find Him? He is not intending to go to the Dispersion among the Greeks, and teach the Greeks, is He?
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There is much of Scripture written to a future audience without the author realizing it's intent.

I view the Bible chronologically with Paul's letters written to the body of Christ. The body of Christ is raptured then the tribulation occurs followed by the Lord's second coming. Those books following Paul is for this time period. However, many of the principles in those writings is true no matter what dispensation one is living.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#122
Aug 15, 2009
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#122
Correction. Jame wrote to the 12 tribes scattered abroad, but still about salvation, for everyone is saved the same.

One only needs to read Acts to see Jews were already scattered..... the tongues spoken on Pentecost was to scattered Jews of many dialects.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#123
#123
Stephen63 said:
Correction. Jame wrote to the 12 tribes scattered abroad, but still about salvation, for everyone is saved the same.
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And nobody is saved by their works keeping them saved. :rolleyes:
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#124
Jan 18, 2011
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#124
here is a thing- a real true Christian does not need someone standing over them, " making ' them do good. they will do so, bearing fruit.

an apple tree bears apples because it is apple tree. it does not have to be " made " to do so. it does not bear fruit to prove it is a apple tree, it does so because it is.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#125
Nov 22, 2015
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#125
The other thing to remember about James and other Jewish writers is that they referred to their "Jewish brethren" whether saved or unsaved as "brother and brethren". Anyone "Jewish" was a brother or brethren to them.

Here is Peter speaking to the other disciples about choosing Judas replacement.

Acts 1:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Here is Peter speaking to the unsaved Jewish "brethren"

Acts 2:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Here are these unsaved "brethren" speaking back to Peter and the disciples standing with him.

Acts 2:37 (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Here is Paul speaking to Jewish unbelievers about his conversion to Christ.

Acts 22:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
And yet again ...

Acts 23:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#126
Jan 13, 2016
16,646
3,535
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#126
Stephen63 said:
Correction. Jame wrote to the 12 tribes scattered abroad, but still about salvation, for everyone is saved the same.

One only needs to read Acts to see Jews were already scattered..... the tongues spoken on Pentecost was to scattered Jews of many dialects.
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The believing Jews were scattered not the whole nation. When the term "twelve tribes" is used in Scripture it is always a reference to the whole nation of Israel not a called out few. To use it to mean only those believers would contradict every other usage in Scripture. I don't want to do that. I want the Scripture to be honest.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#127
Jan 13, 2016
16,646
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#127
gb9 said:
here is a thing- a real true Christian does not need someone standing over them, " making ' them do good. they will do so, bearing fruit.

an apple tree bears apples because it is apple tree. it does not have to be " made " to do so. it does not bear fruit to prove it is a apple tree, it does so because it is.
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Only a maturing tree bears fruit. There are many Christians still in the immature, baby stage.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#128
Aug 15, 2009
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#128
gb9 said:
here is a thing- a real true Christian does not need someone standing over them, " making ' them do good. they will do so, bearing fruit.

an apple tree bears apples because it is apple tree. it does not have to be " made " to do so. it does not bear fruit to prove it is a apple tree, it does so because it is.
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There's all kinds of sinners that do good works galore for a church. So that doesn't float
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#129
Jan 18, 2011
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#129
Stephen63 said:
There's all kinds of sinners that do good works galore for a church. So that doesn't float
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o.k. since , by Biblical standards, we are all sinners, then what you just said doesn't float either, it just sinks.
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#130
Jan 18, 2011
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#130
above we have the legalist mindset- no matter what you say, if does not pass under their tiny microscope, it ' doesn't count '. nothing is ever good enough for them.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#131
Jan 13, 2016
16,646
3,535
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#131
Stephen63 said:
Correction. Jame wrote to the 12 tribes scattered abroad, but still about salvation, for everyone is saved the same.

One only needs to read Acts to see Jews were already scattered..... the tongues spoken on Pentecost was to scattered Jews of many dialects.
Click to expand...
James 1:21, Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Obviously, there were those in James' audience who had not received the word of God and their souls were not saved.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#132
Nov 22, 2015
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#132
FreeNChrist said:
And nobody is saved by their works keeping them saved. :rolleyes:
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Unfortunately this is one of the things wrong with the Pentecostal religion - one must work for their salvation or Christ leaves them even though scriptures and Jesus say the exact opposite. ( There are many good things about some of the beliefs of the Pentecostals too )

They are reading warning scriptures about walking according to the flesh and this will destroy us in this earth and equating that with salvation as in going to be with the Lord for eternity.

Take up shooting heroin in your arms and we will see this truth being manifested rather quickly. Other things of the "flesh" take longer to manifest but still bring destruction - lie male and slandering - they are in the same verses as homosexual sinning.

But us "religious" Christians do not acknowledge that. We are all possible Pharisees in the making. Thank God for the grace of Christ in all our lives.

This works-based mindset does not accurately know the love of God yet for people and the magnificence of Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection but the Lord is changing all this to those who have a heart for the Lord.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#133
Aug 15, 2009
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#133
gb9 said:
o.k. since , by Biblical standards, we are all sinners, then what you just said doesn't float either, it just sinks.
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How can the scriptures say "NOW are we the sons of God" & you say we're sinners? Guess who I will believe?
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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#134
Apr 7, 2014
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#134
FreeNChrist said:
Yep. James concern is that people have real saving faith, not counterfeit faith. Real saving faith in Jesus Christ will be evident as Christ will necessarily be expressing His character, the fruit of His Spirit, through the person whose faith is genuine.
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Amen! Again, in James 2:14, we read of one who says-claims he has faith but has no works (to back up his claim). This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when

James asks, "Can that faith save him?" He is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks the resulting evidential works, one must doubt that he truly has genuine saving faith.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#135
Nov 24, 2013
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#135
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment cameupon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Wasnt Paul at odds with James at one point in Acts?
 
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garee

Banned
#136
Mar 28, 2016
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#136
stonesoffire said:
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment cameupon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Wasnt Paul at odds with James at one point in Acts?
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If they were the thoughts of James or Paul that could be possible. They are both saying the same thing coming from the same mind of God.. We are saved by the work of Christ's faith according to His labor of love..

From my experience not discerning whose faith is in view, from what direction, towards us coming from Christ, or our faith towards Him.

It is where things get turned upside down .It's is His work of faith in Ephesian not our towards him. But His faith working in us. The same faith of Christ we are warned not to have the faith of God in respect to men in the opening statement of James. It seems to get ignored as if it was not a law not subject to change.

We defend the faith of Christ, as it works in us as if it came from us, it is like armor.... not of ourselves.

Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of "our Lord Jesus Christ", the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

Neither James nor Paul are the author of our faith.

Some translation replace the word of with the word in. The idea of God having faith seems to be a stumbling block
 
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