"Work out your own salvation ..."

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wanderer6059

wanderer6059

Senior Member
#81
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
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48
#81
[FONT=&quot]17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.[/FONT]
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#83
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#83
FreeNChrist said:
Do you? He alone is worthy of honor.
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Yes, I do, and I respect all people who obey his commandments.

[9] Let love be genuine; hate what is evil, hold fast to what is good;
[10] love one another with brotherly affection; outdo one another in showing honor. Romans 12:9-10 RSV
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#85
#85
resurrection33 said:
Yes, I do, and I respect all people who obey his commandments.

[9] Let love be genuine; hate what is evil, hold fast to what is good;
[10] love one another with brotherly affection; outdo one another in showing honor. Romans 12:9-10 RSV
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Amazing. Truly amazing. :rolleyes:
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#86
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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#86
wanderer6059 said:
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
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Ok, but what are these works that one has to have faith to do? Do we have to have faith to feed the poor?
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#88
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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#88
For I say, through the grace given unto me, Romans 12:3

Rom 12:6　 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us,

Rom_5:5　 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

All of grace. The Power of God working within us.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#89
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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#89
Obedience is to believe what saith the Lord and then act.

Disobedience is unbelief.
 
wanderer6059

wanderer6059

Senior Member
#90
Oct 27, 2013
1,282
57
48
#90
stonesoffire said:
Ok, but what are these works that one has to have faith to do? Do we have to have faith to feed the poor?
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James speaks of works done in obedience to the gospel, and as the proper and necessary effects and fruits of sound believing in Christ Jesus.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#92
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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#92
Certainly you know some people who obey the commandments.
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Something is written on our hearts when born from above, true? Theres a word again...grace. I hope you don't think I'm picking on you. Its not my goal.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#93
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#93
stonesoffire said:
Something is written on our hearts when born from above, true? Theres a word again...grace. I hope you don't think I'm picking on you. Its not my goal.
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It is good that the Lord should forgive us of our sins, and it is good that we should repent of those sins. It seems rather simple.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#96
Apr 7, 2014
25,069
13,082
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#96
wanderer6059 said:
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
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In James 2:14, we read of one who says-claims he has faith but has no works (to back up his claim). This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" He is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. So James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
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In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#98
Jan 13, 2016
16,687
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#98
mailmandan said:
In James 2:14, we read of one who says-claims he has faith but has no works (to back up his claim). This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" He is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. So James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
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James is telling his audience, the twelve tribes scattered abroad, that works plus faith justify them.

James 2:24, Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Are you and I justified by faith alone or by works also?
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#99
Apr 7, 2014
25,069
13,082
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#99
John146 said:
James is telling his audience, the twelve tribes scattered abroad, that works plus faith justify them.

James 2:24, Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Are you and I justified by faith alone or by works also?
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The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; 5:1). James, however is using the term to describe those who would prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

Man is saved through faith and not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#100
Jan 13, 2016
16,687
3,545
113
#100
mailmandan said:
The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; 5:1). James, however is using the term to describe those who would prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

Man is saved through faith and not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
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Who is the man in James justified before? Does man really justify himself before God by his works?

In order to make them mesh, you have to change what justified means. I don't want to do that. I want to allow the Scripture to be as honest to me as possible.
 
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