Workers of "iniquity" (KJV), a Word Study!

[Grace777x70]

He has said many times it is not for salvation and that he is saved.

I think we have to take him at his word.

It's not for salvation - it's for life and living that disciplemike says we need to go back to the Law. Life does not come from keeping the Law - it comes from Christ 's life in us only.

Disciplemike says that if we don't keep the Sabbath - we are sinning and breaking God's Law as well as we need to keep the dietary laws and the feast days. This is one of the doctrine of devils that Paul warned about in the last days. Paul called it "departing from the faith" by telling people not to eat certain foods. Here is a link that talks about it.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138679-hebrews-6-4-6-not-seems-6.html#post2697692


Disciplemike is trying to teach believers in Christ to go back to the Law for life and living. He is teaching a perversion to the gospel of the grace of Christ just like the Judaizers did to Paul. I suggest you read Galatians again and do not be deceived by this false religion. It is anti-Christ in it's beliefs.

 

[garee]

Do you even know what the word "Hebrew" means?

Yes Hebrew = "one from beyond" an alien or pilgrim in a land that represents the eternal promised land..This is in respect to Christ's kingdom, not of this world which can be called Zion.

Abram before he was called Abraham is called a Hebrew.His place of birth is of the land of Canaan; His father was an Amorite, and mother an Hittite.. God used Abraham as a metaphor to show us how he grafted the Gentiles to be used to represent His people. He later in respect to a promise (Isaiah 62:2 ) renamed them and called them “Christians” This was at the time of reformation.

It is name word that denotes residents of the city in respect to their new birth rite as born again creatures. The founder is Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God.

Genesis 14:13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.

 

[Grace777x70]

It would seem Brother Mike is not leaving Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God out, but rather turning the work of the Holy Spirit into a shadow.

It’s interesting that law keepers pick and choose which law the want to keep. Ignoring laws that command us not to judge in respect to shadows.

Let no man "therefore judge you" in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col 2:16

This is where the perversion of the gospel is taking place before our very eyes. This is rejecting Christ's work by saying we need to go back to the Law - the shadow. He gives lip service to Christ while trying to get people to go back to the Law. It's anti-Christ in it's belief system now matter how we look at it.

 

[SCHISM]

Jesus didn't say they cast out demons.
The people claimed that they had cast out demons. A lot of people today do the same thing, and make big bucks doing it. Where is the proof? There is none. Anyone can claim to be casting out demons.

That is the answer I thought immediately this morning. So, who in their right mind would attempt to lie to Jesus, saying they gave prophesy and cast out devils in his name? Or did they honestly believe at the time that they were doing those things in good faith? Could there be such delusion?

 

[LaurenTM]

He has said many times it is not for salvation and that he is saved.

I think we have to take him at his word.

well, thing is, we don't make the rules for salvation

he thinks he does

 

[LaurenTM]

Do you even know what the word "Hebrew" means?

Paul would have had such fun with you

you try to appear so edu-ma-cated with what you think is a challenging retort

you are a follower of Hebrew Roots...that's all anyone needs to know

 

[FreeNChrist]

Sorry, I don't see disciplemike doing that anywhere in his writings that I have read. Someone who would put the keeping of the law as the requirement to be saved instead of Christ's Blood shed on the cross would be the Judaizer you speak of. I don't see him promoting that anywhere in his writings.

What I do see him adominshing is respect for God's laws while keeping the faith in Jesus Christ The Savior. That, every devout believer on Jesus born of the Jews is naturally going to do, (I am assuming he does have a Jewish heritage).

Haven't you guys ever read Genesis 49 where God through Jacob gave prophecy for the last days to his 12 sons? Judah was told the sceptre rule and care of the law would not leave his hand until Shiloh (Jesus) come, and to Him would the gathering of the people be. So God has ordained Judah to maintain His law all the way up to Christ's return!

And which law is that? It's the portions of God's law which our Lord Jesus did NOT nail to His cross. The Ten Commandments is a start on that. Other laws like Paul showed in 1 Timothy 1 are about what? The are civil and social laws that are still... in EFFECT in our society, laws against thefts, murder, perjury, etc. Paul covered some of them again in Galatians 5, a foundation Book of Christianity.

Well the problem today indeed is, a lot of Christian Churches aren't following what Apostle Paul warned on those kind of things, and he was emphatic that those who practice such lawlessness would not enter into the kingdom of Heaven (Gal.5).

So when disciplemike gives you the Biblical truth... about what Jesus said to those who work "iniquity" to get away from Him, that is right in line with God's Word as written. Some of you folks just haven't yet understood how some of the mainstream Christian organizations have been taken over by political correctness, and they are towing the globalist's line on all religions being the same and equal.

Sigh*. Birds of a feather.....

 

[UnderGrace]

Definitely the law does not bring life and it never did so I understand why you take issue with him on this.

However, I personally do not get a clear sense of what he is teaching.

He has not responded to my question yet, so I guess I could go back and read his other threads at some point, however I really see no difference between celebrating Christmas or Passover, people celebrate Christmas because it makes them happy, if it makes disciplemike happy to celebrate Passover why is that a problem. I have not read where he says it is for salvation.

But I think this thread that was started to discuss iniquity, I just get this idea he is trying to say that the law is our point of reference to know what is right and what is wrong?

So disciplemike it is up to you to explain, because I agree to an extent, most all of knew the ten commandments before we were born again, but someone who has no idea about them and then they were born again wouldn't we tell them about love by teaching them some of the activities that go against love like stealing for example?

So then to teach someone something is wrong does put them under the law if they are born again. Isn't that part of growing in Jesus knowing what love is by knowing what love is not?

I think it is worthy of discussion if that is the intent of this OP.

It's not for salvation - it's for life and living that disciplemike says we need to go back to the Law. Life does not come from keeping the Law - it comes from Christ 's life in us only.

Disciplemike says that if we don't keep the Sabbath - we are sinning and breaking God's Law as well as we need to keep the dietary laws and the feast days. This is one of the doctrine of devils that Paul warned about in the last days. Paul called it "departing from the faith" by telling people not to eat certain foods. Here is a link that talks about it.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/138679-hebrews-6-4-6-not-seems-6.html#post2697692


Disciplemike is trying to teach believers in Christ to go back to the Law for life and living. He is teaching a perversion to the gospel of the grace of Christ just like the Judaizers did to Paul. I suggest you read Galatians again and do not be deceived by this false religion. It is anti-Christ in it's beliefs.

 

[DP]

This is always an interesting debate.

Those who work iniquity in the Matthew verses of the original post, they knew Jesus as Lord, they claimed having done good works in his name, even so much as casting out devils.

Weren't we told in the gospel that devils couldn't be cast out by devils?
Weren't we told that all who believe in his name shall be saved?

Then how could Jesus refuse those who cast out devils by the power of the Holy Spirit in his name????

That just doesn't add up to me.

They clearly had faith in his name and the Holy Spirit at some point, but to say He Never Knew Them????

He can't lose that which is his.

How many times did Jesus say this in the gospel? Is there more than one witness?

Perhaps you argue over a stumbling block?

I hope I used enough question marks to convey the idea that I'm really not to sure about this. God bless.

The matter is more understandable than you might think. The problem is most don't study their Bible to the depth to understand how Christ's future 1,000 years reign is going to be, nor are that many pastors relaying it to the congregations. I've tried to impart some of that understanding here on this forum at times, as the Ezekiel 40 thru 47 chapters contains some things about that time. But there's still a lot of brethren here who are bent on their salvation meaning living up in the clouds somewhere, not involving an earth at all, so how do you convince them about this in God's Word, because it is written?

What did our Lord Jesus mean when He promised His faithful elect would be made priests and kings in His Kingdom? We already know the 12 thrones over the 12 tribes of Israel is reserved for Christ's Apostles. What about the thrones of the other nations and peoples in His Kingdom, because the idea of 'nations' are still going to exist, even to eternity? (Rev.20; Isaiah 19).

I believe only Christ's faithful elect, those who gave up all and suffered for Him, will be those who reign with Him, and are able to approach Him at His table, which Ezekiel 44 suggests.

Those who believe but fall away, I believe they will be on probation throughout the 1,000 years, as Ezekiel 44 shows a difference between the Levites who went astray when Israel went astray compared to the Zadok (The Just) who didn't go astray. That chapter also shows many will stand in judgment through that time, and will be taught the difference between the clean and unclean, between the holy and the profane.

 

[disciplemike]

I think it is worthy of discussion if that is the intent of this OP.

The only purpose of this "OP" is to show who was the subject of Matthew 7:23 - who was the Messiah speaking to.
I hear all sorts of theological sounding explanations, but you know what, I think the Messiah chose His words very wisely.
He said what He meant to say.

Again, did He say, "depart from me all of you who try to keep the law"?
no

did He say, "depart from me all of you who do not have Me in your heart"?
no

He carefully chose His own words and said, "depart from me, you workers of law-less-ness".

 

[LaurenTM]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Torah-observant groups justify their position on the basis of selected verses, while ignoring others[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. Much is made of the term "forever" used in regard to some Old Testament laws, while verses such as Hebrews 8:13 that speak of the first covenant as being "obsolete," are not dealt with.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Further, they ignore what theologians commonly call the "history of redemption[/FONT][FONT=&quot]," the progress of God's dealings with humankind throughout history. Jesus has indeed brought something new, but the Torah-observant groups minimize the newness that the coming of the Messiah has meant.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]In addition, they minimize the way much Old Testament law functioned to distinguish Israel from the nations. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]While there is indeed distinctiveness to the Jewish people, not all the Old Testament distinctions apply. For example, one can make a good argument that the food laws were intended to symbolize the separation of Israel from the nations.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Under the New Covenant, Jewish and Gentile believers in Jesus become one in the Messiah (Ephesians 2:14) in a way not realized under the Mosaic Covenant. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]As a result, one can build a good case that the mandatory keeping of kosher laws is no longer required for a Jewish believer in Jesus.

source[/FONT]

 

[UnderGrace]

Yes Jesus did pick the words lawlessness.

Lawlessness is sin seen in 1 John 3:4, because it defines “lawlessness” (what the KJV calls “iniquity”)

"Everyone doing sin also does lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness."

So obviously these people were hypocrits while they thought they were doing all these things for God by casting out demons etc., their hearts were far from Him and not doing His will because He says depart from me I never knew you.

Obviously this passage shows that the works they were boasting about do not save which actually goes against your whole point.

Unless you can elaborate how this aligns with keeping the law?

The only purpose of this "OP" is to show who was the subject of Matthew 7:23 - who was the Messiah speaking to.
I hear all sorts of theological sounding explanations, but you know what, I think the Messiah chose His words very wisely.
He said what He meant to say.

Again, did He say, "depart from me all of you who try to keep the law"?
no

did He say, "depart from me all of you who do not have Me in your heart"?
no

He carefully chose His own words and said, "depart from me, you workers of law-less-ness".