Workers of "iniquity" (KJV), a Word Study!
- Thread starter disciplemike
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
L
this is a pattern all right
a pattern of really really bad biblical exegesis
you combine the old and new testaments as if there was no difference
oh wait
to a Hebrew Roots individual, the OT supersedes the NT
these things do not save
if they did save, Jesus could have just stayed where He was
Hebrew Roots is off kilter and is a sect that is against the gospel as presented in scripture
Last edited:
J
Clinton Is Above The Law, So The Law Is Dead | TheBlaze.com
CLINTON IS ABOVE THE LAW, SO THE LAW IS DEAD
There seems to be a major difference of belief when those who follow Christ and His example and do as He did, verses the "I only follow Paul" group and all that is required is to believe on his name and nothing else after accepting Christ.
Either the scriptures are schizophrenic or the much misunderstood words of Paul are twisted to satisfy Satan's agenda.
Grace-only is above the law, therefore the law is dead?
Obedience to God's laws will bless you, but disobedience curses you. God's Torah, all of it, is our only blueprint how to live set-apart lives and to live morally. What does God say about the 7th day rest?
Exodus 31:The Sign of the Sabbath
12The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 13"But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.14'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.…
Oh, but this is for Israel only. Really, you are not part of Israel?
Can we walk perfectly as Jesus did? I failed before I knew Christ, and then a life of many struggles that had no moral compass to guide me after inviting Jesus into my heart. It wasn't until God drew me to see I am to live like Christ did, and then the blessings flowed like a river and I began to bare fruit. Thankfulness and praise I no longer live observing those pagan ways God and Jesus hate. I no longer live with man-made traditions, Christmas, Easter, Sunday, Good Friday, Sun rise services, swine flesh and other garbage eating disposals. No cross around my neck, just 4 tassels with a thread of blue to wear on the 4 corners of my garments. No nativity scene or Easter bunnies that lay chicken eggs. No Santa Claus or elves from the North Pole.
Yes, the church I attended did all of those things that I came to unlearn the lies and then leaving opened to learning truth. The truth really does set you free. I love God's Torah and enjoy fellowship with other Messianics on the Sabbath. I love the rest and peace that comes with the Sabbath. Jesus (I call Him Yeshua) Is truly LORD of the Sabbath and our remembering and guarding the Sabbath identifies who you belong to.
It is truly about loving others enough to share the unwanted truth.
There is much in Christian traditions that is wrong, and you should seek God's ways, which Christ walked out before us to show us the way to His gospel of the Kingdom.
Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be they name (LORD=YHWH), thy kingdom come, thy will be done (as Yeshua showed us), on Earth as it is in Heaven. Forgive us our trespasses (see OT Law of trespass) as we forgive others of their trespasses (love those who offend unconditionally). Give us this day our daily bread (trust God in His choices of what is food, clean and nourishing and provided from Him).
Matthew 6:13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
I am disturbed in my spirit at how many believers will continue to be blind from the true light giver, the LORD GOD OF ISRAEL AND HIS OUTSTRETCHED ARM OF THE LORD. Remember, the arm cannot do anything on its own.
Ezekiel 33:Ezekiel as Israel's Watchman
…5'He heard the sound of the trumpet but did not take warning; his blood will be on himself. But had he taken warning, he would have delivered his life. 6But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blowthe trumpet and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will requirefrom the watchman's hand.' 7"Now as for you, son of man, I have appointed you a watchman for the house of Israel; so you will hear a message from My mouth and give them warning from Me.…
CLINTON IS ABOVE THE LAW, SO THE LAW IS DEAD
There seems to be a major difference of belief when those who follow Christ and His example and do as He did, verses the "I only follow Paul" group and all that is required is to believe on his name and nothing else after accepting Christ.
Either the scriptures are schizophrenic or the much misunderstood words of Paul are twisted to satisfy Satan's agenda.
Grace-only is above the law, therefore the law is dead?
Obedience to God's laws will bless you, but disobedience curses you. God's Torah, all of it, is our only blueprint how to live set-apart lives and to live morally. What does God say about the 7th day rest?
Exodus 31:The Sign of the Sabbath
12The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 13"But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.14'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.…
Oh, but this is for Israel only. Really, you are not part of Israel?
Can we walk perfectly as Jesus did? I failed before I knew Christ, and then a life of many struggles that had no moral compass to guide me after inviting Jesus into my heart. It wasn't until God drew me to see I am to live like Christ did, and then the blessings flowed like a river and I began to bare fruit. Thankfulness and praise I no longer live observing those pagan ways God and Jesus hate. I no longer live with man-made traditions, Christmas, Easter, Sunday, Good Friday, Sun rise services, swine flesh and other garbage eating disposals. No cross around my neck, just 4 tassels with a thread of blue to wear on the 4 corners of my garments. No nativity scene or Easter bunnies that lay chicken eggs. No Santa Claus or elves from the North Pole.
Yes, the church I attended did all of those things that I came to unlearn the lies and then leaving opened to learning truth. The truth really does set you free. I love God's Torah and enjoy fellowship with other Messianics on the Sabbath. I love the rest and peace that comes with the Sabbath. Jesus (I call Him Yeshua) Is truly LORD of the Sabbath and our remembering and guarding the Sabbath identifies who you belong to.
It is truly about loving others enough to share the unwanted truth.
There is much in Christian traditions that is wrong, and you should seek God's ways, which Christ walked out before us to show us the way to His gospel of the Kingdom.
Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be they name (LORD=YHWH), thy kingdom come, thy will be done (as Yeshua showed us), on Earth as it is in Heaven. Forgive us our trespasses (see OT Law of trespass) as we forgive others of their trespasses (love those who offend unconditionally). Give us this day our daily bread (trust God in His choices of what is food, clean and nourishing and provided from Him).
Matthew 6:13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
I am disturbed in my spirit at how many believers will continue to be blind from the true light giver, the LORD GOD OF ISRAEL AND HIS OUTSTRETCHED ARM OF THE LORD. Remember, the arm cannot do anything on its own.
Ezekiel 33:Ezekiel as Israel's Watchman
…5'He heard the sound of the trumpet but did not take warning; his blood will be on himself. But had he taken warning, he would have delivered his life. 6But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blowthe trumpet and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will requirefrom the watchman's hand.' 7"Now as for you, son of man, I have appointed you a watchman for the house of Israel; so you will hear a message from My mouth and give them warning from Me.…
Sorry, I don't see disciplemike doing that anywhere in his writings that I have read. Someone who would put the keeping of the law as the requirement to be saved instead of Christ's Blood shed on the cross would be the Judaizer you speak of. I don't see him promoting that anywhere in his writings.
What I do see him adominshing is respect for God's laws while keeping the faith in Jesus Christ The Savior. That, every devout believer on Jesus born of the Jews is naturally going to do, (I am assuming he does have a Jewish heritage).
Haven't you guys ever read Genesis 49 where God through Jacob gave prophecy for the last days to his 12 sons? Judah was told the sceptre rule and care of the law would not leave his hand until Shiloh (Jesus) come, and to Him would the gathering of the people be. So God has ordained Judah to maintain His law all the way up to Christ's return!
And which law is that? It's the portions of God's law which our Lord Jesus did NOT nail to His cross. The Ten Commandments is a start on that. Other laws like Paul showed in 1 Timothy 1 are about what? The are civil and social laws that are still... in EFFECT in our society, laws against thefts, murder, perjury, etc. Paul covered some of them again in Galatians 5, a foundation Book of Christianity.
Well the problem today indeed is, a lot of Christian Churches aren't following what Apostle Paul warned on those kind of things, and he was emphatic that those who practice such lawlessness would not enter into the kingdom of Heaven (Gal.5).
So when disciplemike gives you the Biblical truth... about what Jesus said to those who work "iniquity" to get away from Him, that is right in line with God's Word as written. Some of you folks just haven't yet understood how some of the mainstream Christian organizations have been taken over by political correctness, and they are towing the globalist's line on all religions being the same and equal.
What I do see him adominshing is respect for God's laws while keeping the faith in Jesus Christ The Savior. That, every devout believer on Jesus born of the Jews is naturally going to do, (I am assuming he does have a Jewish heritage).
Haven't you guys ever read Genesis 49 where God through Jacob gave prophecy for the last days to his 12 sons? Judah was told the sceptre rule and care of the law would not leave his hand until Shiloh (Jesus) come, and to Him would the gathering of the people be. So God has ordained Judah to maintain His law all the way up to Christ's return!
And which law is that? It's the portions of God's law which our Lord Jesus did NOT nail to His cross. The Ten Commandments is a start on that. Other laws like Paul showed in 1 Timothy 1 are about what? The are civil and social laws that are still... in EFFECT in our society, laws against thefts, murder, perjury, etc. Paul covered some of them again in Galatians 5, a foundation Book of Christianity.
Well the problem today indeed is, a lot of Christian Churches aren't following what Apostle Paul warned on those kind of things, and he was emphatic that those who practice such lawlessness would not enter into the kingdom of Heaven (Gal.5).
So when disciplemike gives you the Biblical truth... about what Jesus said to those who work "iniquity" to get away from Him, that is right in line with God's Word as written. Some of you folks just haven't yet understood how some of the mainstream Christian organizations have been taken over by political correctness, and they are towing the globalist's line on all religions being the same and equal.
U
I agree that it is silly to observe Easter and Christmas but then think it is a huge sin to go back and observe the feast days, dietary laws and the sabbath.
The big question for me is do you keep these because you want to observe them or do you believe you have to observe them? I do think it is an important distinction.
Jesus told us to keep His Commandments.
He did not tell us to keep His Feast Days, His Dietary Laws. These have been done away with when Jesus showed Peter he could eat everything.
Therefore you are nothing more then a non believer trying to put the True Believers of Jesus back under the Law instead of Grace.
Keeping the Laws of the O.T. cannot save you disciplemike. You need to repent and ACCEPT Jesus as your Savior. Following and keeping the Law cannot Save you. Its only by the Grace of God through His Faith that we receive Salvation.
The Law cannot Save and the Law cannot forgive you for all your sins.
He did not tell us to keep His Feast Days, His Dietary Laws. These have been done away with when Jesus showed Peter he could eat everything.
Therefore you are nothing more then a non believer trying to put the True Believers of Jesus back under the Law instead of Grace.
Keeping the Laws of the O.T. cannot save you disciplemike. You need to repent and ACCEPT Jesus as your Savior. Following and keeping the Law cannot Save you. Its only by the Grace of God through His Faith that we receive Salvation.
The Law cannot Save and the Law cannot forgive you for all your sins.
Something else I must add. Although I do not go as far and thinking that today we must keep to a strict ritual sabbath, the requirement for that will return when Jesus comes back. We will keep it in the Millennium. Under Christ we now have liberty to worship on any day of the week. It doesn't have to be Friday at sunset to Saturday sunset. But in the future Millennium, we will be required to keep God's sabbaths as written.
How many didn't know that in the U.S. we are still following God's law on property rights, including livestock getting lose to cause damage to another's property, and that person being able to seek reparations? There are many, many areas where God's law is still on the laws books in the U.S. states.
So when one is talking about God's law today, they shouldn't be ignorant of that above.
How many didn't know that in the U.S. we are still following God's law on property rights, including livestock getting lose to cause damage to another's property, and that person being able to seek reparations? There are many, many areas where God's law is still on the laws books in the U.S. states.
So when one is talking about God's law today, they shouldn't be ignorant of that above.
It definitely is an important distinction, because God's law cannot save anyone. But you guys need to understand why the majority of believing Jews simply are not going to dump understanding and wanting to keep God's laws. But when we Gentiles, naturally by following The Holy Spirit keep God's laws, why is that treated by some as if there were no more law?
Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; [SUP]9 [/SUP]not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
We are saved by Grace. We are saved by Faith. Salvation is a Gift. We do not receive our Salvation by Works.
There is nothing we can do to be Saved. Its a Gift from God.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; [SUP]9 [/SUP]not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
We are saved by Grace. We are saved by Faith. Salvation is a Gift. We do not receive our Salvation by Works.
There is nothing we can do to be Saved. Its a Gift from God.
U
Good point!!
I just think doing an activity as an activity that a person finds meaningful and enjoyable (like the dietary laws, feasts and Sabbath keeping) is far far different than doing an activity to fulfill the law as obligation to the law giver.
Having said that if a person does not find these particular activities enjoyable and does not want to do them, are you disciplemike saying that is lawlessness? I would have to disagree with that.
I just think doing an activity as an activity that a person finds meaningful and enjoyable (like the dietary laws, feasts and Sabbath keeping) is far far different than doing an activity to fulfill the law as obligation to the law giver.
Having said that if a person does not find these particular activities enjoyable and does not want to do them, are you disciplemike saying that is lawlessness? I would have to disagree with that.
All of them, but keeping the ceremonial if different than keeping the moral laws.
There are two kinds.
(1) ........The letter of the law which shows we are sinners and need to born again from above .They would be the ones we are to judge or evaluate as we love one another. It is represented by the verse below.
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Col 2:15
(2)......And ceremonial laws needed up until the reformation as shadow. Because they are ceremonial the law Our God requires we do not judge each other in regard to that kind, as represented below..
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col 2:17
Will you obey the commandment and keep the law that informs us we are to let no man therefore judge another in respect to the shadows which stood only in meats and fleshly ordinances until the time of reformation.
Has the reformation come, or are we still waiting for Christ to come in the flesh?
In Hebrews the Holy Spirit helps to emphasize the idea of shadows used in parables called a figure perform nothing.
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure/parable for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. Heb 9:8
There are two kinds.
(1) ........The letter of the law which shows we are sinners and need to born again from above .They would be the ones we are to judge or evaluate as we love one another. It is represented by the verse below.
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Col 2:15
(2)......And ceremonial laws needed up until the reformation as shadow. Because they are ceremonial the law Our God requires we do not judge each other in regard to that kind, as represented below..
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col 2:17
Will you obey the commandment and keep the law that informs us we are to let no man therefore judge another in respect to the shadows which stood only in meats and fleshly ordinances until the time of reformation.
Has the reformation come, or are we still waiting for Christ to come in the flesh?
In Hebrews the Holy Spirit helps to emphasize the idea of shadows used in parables called a figure perform nothing.
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure/parable for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. Heb 9:8
This is always an interesting debate.
Those who work iniquity in the Matthew verses of the original post, they knew Jesus as Lord, they claimed having done good works in his name, even so much as casting out devils.
Weren't we told in the gospel that devils couldn't be cast out by devils?
Weren't we told that all who believe in his name shall be saved?
Then how could Jesus refuse those who cast out devils by the power of the Holy Spirit in his name????
That just doesn't add up to me.
They clearly had faith in his name and the Holy Spirit at some point, but to say He Never Knew Them????
He can't lose that which is his.
How many times did Jesus say this in the gospel? Is there more than one witness?
Perhaps you argue over a stumbling block?
I hope I used enough question marks to convey the idea that I'm really not to sure about this. God bless.
Those who work iniquity in the Matthew verses of the original post, they knew Jesus as Lord, they claimed having done good works in his name, even so much as casting out devils.
Weren't we told in the gospel that devils couldn't be cast out by devils?
Weren't we told that all who believe in his name shall be saved?
Then how could Jesus refuse those who cast out devils by the power of the Holy Spirit in his name????
That just doesn't add up to me.
They clearly had faith in his name and the Holy Spirit at some point, but to say He Never Knew Them????
He can't lose that which is his.
How many times did Jesus say this in the gospel? Is there more than one witness?
Perhaps you argue over a stumbling block?
I hope I used enough question marks to convey the idea that I'm really not to sure about this. God bless.
It would seem Brother Mike is not leaving Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God out, but rather turning the work of the Holy Spirit into a shadow.
It’s interesting that law keepers pick and choose which law the want to keep. Ignoring laws that command us not to judge in respect to shadows.
Let no man "therefore judge you" in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col 2:16
It’s interesting that law keepers pick and choose which law the want to keep. Ignoring laws that command us not to judge in respect to shadows.
Let no man "therefore judge you" in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Col 2:16
All of the good works we can do are done in Christ's name. Without him we can do nothing.
I would think those works were done in the name of Christ, which means the authority of God. Jesus did not say that Christ, the Holy Spirit did not perform them as the person handed the gospel . If Christ applied the gospel to their hearts the demons came out . If he declared the word of God he prophesied. So it not a mater of if but who was the work accredited to.
The work of iniquity had do with thinking the work in the end was performed by human hands accrediting it to the person holding out the gospel which is to blaspheme the holy name by which we are called.. It was a pride issue. God is not served by human hands. We are to have no gods before our living God.
I would think those works were done in the name of Christ, which means the authority of God. Jesus did not say that Christ, the Holy Spirit did not perform them as the person handed the gospel . If Christ applied the gospel to their hearts the demons came out . If he declared the word of God he prophesied. So it not a mater of if but who was the work accredited to.
The work of iniquity had do with thinking the work in the end was performed by human hands accrediting it to the person holding out the gospel which is to blaspheme the holy name by which we are called.. It was a pride issue. God is not served by human hands. We are to have no gods before our living God.
Seeing he did not call him a lair in respect to that or prophesying. The casting out of demons in the name/authority of Christ in respect to the gospel of Christ it is the way they were cast out.
When they tried to cast them out in regard to their own name they could not. The key to that verse is whose name as a immutable authority.
When they tried to cast them out in regard to their own name they could not. The key to that verse is whose name as a immutable authority.
disciplemike has no Jewish heritage. He is just trying to be Jewish - he is a gentile like most of us.
You have NOT obviously read his threads on going back to the Law. His belief system is anti-Christ.
Lawlessness is disobedience to the call to be obedient to the faith of Christ for salvation and life. - NOT the Law. Matt. 7:15-23 shows that the "workers of iniquity" were those that by "their good works" tried to be righteous and Jesus said "He never knew them at all".
You seriously need to tread his threads as he is telling people to live by the Law.
You have NOT obviously read his threads on going back to the Law. His belief system is anti-Christ.
Lawlessness is disobedience to the call to be obedient to the faith of Christ for salvation and life. - NOT the Law. Matt. 7:15-23 shows that the "workers of iniquity" were those that by "their good works" tried to be righteous and Jesus said "He never knew them at all".
You seriously need to tread his threads as he is telling people to live by the Law.