Workers of "iniquity" (KJV), a Word Study!

[DP]

I guess Apostle Paul was teaching Hebrew Roots movement stuff here, since he was teaching these things from God's law still being in effect under Christianity...

1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV

 

[FreeNChrist]

Are you now, or have you ever been, associated with Communists? Just curious, since you seem to have issues with God's law as written in His Word, and in wanting to 'lay' the law aside.

What does the reality that Christians are not under the Law have to do with Communism?

 

[FreeNChrist]

I guess Apostle Paul was teaching Hebrew Roots movement stuff here, since he was teaching these things from God's law still being in effect under Christianity...

1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV

So you are an unrighteous man. Noted.

 

[posthuman]

What does the reality that Christians are not under the Law have to do with Communism?

i was under the impression that communist regimes were extremely far from being lawless places??

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by LaurenTM

Question: "What is the Hebrew Roots movement?"

Answer: The premise of the Hebrew Roots movement is the belief that the Church has veered far from the true teachings and Hebrew concepts of the Bible. The movement maintains that Christianity has been indoctrinated with the culture and beliefs of Greek and Roman philosophy and that ultimately biblical Christianity, taught in churches today, has been corrupted with a pagan imitation of the New Testament gospels.

you know, that sounds just like your tagline:

I believe Scriptures. I also believe that the church has been duped. We were tricked with fake names, fake holy days, and grace-overrides-everything theology. It's time to come out of Babylon.

Those of the Hebrew Roots belief hold to the teaching that Christ's death on the cross did not end the Mosaic Covenant, but instead renewed it, expanded its message, and wrote it on the hearts of His true followers. They teach that the understanding of the New Testament can only come from a Hebrew perspective and that the teachings of the Apostle Paul are not understood clearly or taught correctly by Christian pastors today. Many affirm the existence of an original Hebrew-language New Testament and, in some cases, denigrate the existing New Testament text written in Greek. This becomes a subtle attack on the reliability of the text of our Bible. If the Greek text is unreliable and has been corrupted, as is charged by some, the Church no longer has a standard of truth.



you and other forum members, myself included, had this conversation when you first joined

unless you have left the movement, the above is what you believe

Ah, come on, you know disciplemike isn't teaching that stuff. What you're doing is indeed... slandering.

disciplemike is teaching that we need to go back to the Law for living. He is teaching an anti-Christ belief system. If you want to confirm this. Click on his name and see the threads he has created and they were created to try to get people to live by the Law of Moses now. Check it out.

This is the sign of a Judaizer and it is NOT Christian in any form.

There is nothing wrong with people doing things that they want as far as observing things in the Law - if they want.

Where the perversion of the gospel comes in when Judaizers say "If you don't obey the Law - you are not obeying God's commandments". That is the anti-Christ belief system in manifestation.

I love the Hebrew words and to see Christ in the Law and temple sacrifices but the true Christian is dead to the Law SO THAT we could be joined to Another - Christ Himself.

 

[posthuman]

There are 613 laws in the Torah -- the old covenant made with ethnic Israel at Sinai.

There are over 1,000 commands, injunctions and imperatives in the new testament of the new covenant under Jesus Christ.

The idea that Christians, saved by grace and dead to the Law, not bound to the old covenant but brought in under the new, are 'lawless' is complete rubbish. A lie.

Please stop spreading it. You slander the Bride of the Lamb.

 

[posthuman]

To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
(1 Corinthians 9:20-21)​

 

[jcha]

"Lawlessness is not becoming obedient to the faith of Jesus Christ and His finished work. "

John 4:34. Jesus explained,“My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to finish His work.

John 5:30 I can do nothing by Myself;I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.


John 5:36. But I have testimony more substantial than that of John. For the works that the Father has given Me to accomplish--the very works I am doing--testify about Me that the Father has sent Me.

John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.

Deuteronomy 18: A New Prophet
14"For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you to do so. 15"The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen, you shall listen to him. 16"This is according to all that you asked of the LORD your God in Horeb on the day of the assembly, saying, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, let me not see this great fire anymore, or I will die.'…

Acts 3:22
For Moses said, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to Him in everything He tells you.

Grace only refuse to walk as Jesus walked and taught the Kingdom, which has the very same laws, a King (Jesus), and the whole earth will be his to rule.

To walk as Jesus did, means to keep the Sabbath, eat clean food, observe Yah's Feast Days, and yes, even some Jewish traditions that does not have to tell lies, Christ's birthday, mixed with a whole lot of pagan practices, the lie that Christ died on a Friday and resurrected on Sunday, lie about Easter and the bunnies and eggs and ham dinner. All traditions that Christians hold on dearly to in such away they are now blind toTruth and Satan desires they hold on to the "Finished Work of Christ" lie.

 

[jcha]

"Lawlessness is not becoming obedient to the faith of Jesus Christ and His finished work. "

John 4:34. Jesus explained,“My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to finish His work.

John 5:30 IcandonothingbyMyself;I judgeonly asI hear.AndMyjudgmentisjust, becauseI do not seekMyownwill,butthewillof Him whosentMe.


John 5:36. But I have testimony more substantial than that of John. For the works that the Father has given Me to accomplish--the very works I am doing--testify about Me that the Father has sent Me.

John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.

Deuteronomy 18: A New Prophet
14"For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you to do so. 15"The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen, you shall listen to him. 16"This is according to all that you asked of the LORD your God in Horeb on the day of the assembly, saying, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, let me not see this great fire anymore, or I will die.'…

Acts 3:22
For Moses said, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to Him in everything He tells you.

Grace only refuse to walk as Jesus walked and taught the Kingdom, which has the very same laws, a King (Jesus), and the whole earth will be his to rule.

To walk as Jesus did, means to keep the Sabbath, eat clean food, observe Yah's Feast Days, and yes, even some Jewish traditions that does not have to tell lies, Christ's birthday, mixed with a whole lot of pagan practices, the lie that Christ died on a Friday and resurrected on Sunday, lie about Easter and the bunnies and eggs and ham dinner. All traditions that Christians hold on dearly to in such away they are now blind toTruth and Satan desires they hold on to the "Finished Work of Christ" lie.

 

[Grace777x70]

What is the will of the Father? It is not to go back to live by the Law of Moses but to believe in His Son's work.

Jesus was born under the law to redeem those that were under the Law.
Galatians 4:4-5 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law
,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.


Jesus did the "will of God"...and delivered us from this present evil world

Galatians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:


It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

The Will of the Father in the New Covenant is to believe on Jesus.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)

[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

 

[disciplemike]

What is the will of the Father?

​I delight to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart."

Psalms 40:8 (ESV2011, MBM)

 

[MikeHenderson]

Romans 2:17-29
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God, [SUP]18 [/SUP]and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, [SUP]19 [/SUP]and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, [SUP]20 [/SUP]a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth, [SUP]21 [/SUP]you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal? [SUP]22 [/SUP]You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? [SUP]23 [/SUP]You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? [SUP]24 [/SUP]For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. [SUP]26 [/SUP]So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? [SUP]27 [/SUP]And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? [SUP]28 [/SUP]For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. [SUP]29 [/SUP]But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Even you cannot keep the whole Law disciple. Do you not teach yourself, do you teach not to steal but yet you steal? Everyone who walks with Jesus is a "Jew" in the eyes of God. We walk by the Spirit, not by keeping the Law.

 

[disciplemike]

We walk by the Spirit, not by keeping the Law.

Ok, when you are walking by the Spirit, which laws do you not want to keep?

 

[MikeHenderson]

There is a difference in God's Laws and Man's Laws. God only had a few Laws, the Jewish religion had also mixed in Man's laws.

You tell us disciple what Law's are we to keep. Make a list of all the Law's we need to keep.

After you list the Law's we need to keep, then we can talk about keeping the Law but not before.

 

[disciplemike]

There is a difference in God's Laws and Man's Laws. God only had a few Laws, the Jewish religion had also mixed in Man's laws.

You tell us disciple what Law's are we to keep. Make a list of all the Law's we need to keep.

After you list the Law's we need to keep, then we can talk about keeping the Law but not before.

First off, it is not a matter of what I say you need to do. I am just a man. Believe it or not, I can be wrong sometimes.
However, this is a good place to begin - The Bible teaches that we should observe the Holy Days of God, including His Sabbaths and His Feast Days, that He calls His Own, as listed in Leviticus 23.
(And NOT celebrate the fake pagan holidays that we have been tricked with)

 

[Grace777x70]

​I delight to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart."

Psalms 40:8 (ESV2011, MBM)

Just what is this law that is in the believer's new heart created in righteousness and holiness because we are in Christ?

The Law Written on Our Hearts is not the Ten Commandments

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time,” says the Lord. “I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.” (Heb 10:16)

“This is obviously a reference to the law of Moses,” says the law-preacher. “The Ten Commandments were written in stone, now they’re written in the hearts and minds of God’s people.”

Not true. Here are seventeen reasons why God has not written the Ten Commandments on your heart:

1. The law inflames sin (Rom 5:20) and the strength of sin is the law (1 Cor 15:56). Why would God want to stir up sin in your life?

2. The law condemns (2 Cor 3:9), yet there is no condemnation to those in Christ.

3. The law ministers death (2 Cor 3:7), but God wants you to enjoy abundant life.

4. Law and grace don’t mix. You are under grace, not law (Rom 6:14).

5. Living by the law will alienate you from Christ (Gal 5:4).

6. Living by the law is cheating on Jesus (Rom 7:1-6). Why would God do anything to encourage spiritual adultery?

7. We’re to live by faith but the law is not of faith (Gal 3:12). The law encourages us to depend on ourselves instead of Jesus.

8. Those who live under the law are under a curse (Gal 3:10). Why would God curse those he has blessed?

9. The law binds and enslaves (Rom 7:6), but Jesus wants you free.

10. The law keeps you immature for it makes nothing perfect or complete (Heb 7:19).

11. We have died to the law so that we may serve in the new way of the Spirit and “not in the old way of the written code” (Rom 7:6).

12. When there has been a change of priesthood, the law must be changed also (Heb 7:12). For God to write the old law on our hearts would be like saying Aaron is greater than Jesus.

13. God found fault with the law-keeping covenant and made it obsolete (Heb 8:7,13). Why would God insult his Son’s sacrifice by giving you the very thing his sacrifice rendered obsolete?

14. The law is a shadow of the good things to come and not the reality (Heb 10:1). Why would God give you the shadow instead of “the good thing”?

15. The Jews considered the law to be ordained by angels (Heb 2:2). If so, says the author of Hebrews, then it is inferior to the gospel of Jesus (Heb 1:4). Why would God give you an inferior gift?

16. Some Christians think that God gives them the law as a guide to live by, but why would God want you to repeat the mistake of the Galatians (Gal 3:2)? Why would God do anything to make you fall from grace?

17. The old law-keeping covenant required an accounting or remembering of sin, but the new covenant is characterized by God forgiving and forgetting on account of Jesus (Heb 10:17). If the law that God writes in our hearts is the law of Moses, then Jesus died for nothing.

If God has written the Ten Commandments on your heart and mind, you should be able to list all ten with no trouble. Can you? What’s the seventh commandment? You can’t do it because it’s not there, and a very good thing that is too! If the law that God writes in our hearts is the law of Moses, you’re in big trouble.

The good news is that God has written in us a far better law. What is this new and better law?

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/...-commandments/

 

[wvbeliever]

Rather than trust in the Law to save us we are trust in Christ to save us. We are freed from the Law’s bondage by Jesus and His once for all sacrifice Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. And Peter I Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: That scripture in Peter says Jesus is the only just one according to the Law and no one else. That matches I Timothy 1 8-9 perfectly showing Jesus is the only one righteous under the law everyone else is unrighteous. When Jesus died on the cross He put an end to the Old Testament law Galatians 3: 23-25 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Believers are to live in Christ now who fulfilled the Law and paid the price for the wraith that the law works Romans 4:15 because no flesh can be saved by the law only by Jesus Christ Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. We do this when we fulfill the two greatest commandments as Jesus gave in Matthew Chapter 22 37-40 [SUP]
36 [/SUP]Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Our motivation for overcoming sin should be love, not a desire to legalistically obey a series of commandments. We are to obey the law of Christ because we love Him not so that we can check off a list of commands that we successfully obeyed.

 

[Grace777x70]

​I delight to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart."

Psalms 40:8 (ESV2011, MBM)

You continually leave out Christ.

Ok, so we know that it is NOT the law of Moses that is on our hearts in the New Covenant - but it is Christ Himself that is written on our hearts.

BTW: I am not doing this for you but for others so that they will not be deceived into this anti-Christ religion of going back to the Law for life and living and deserting Christ. Gal. 1:6.

What is this new law that is written on our hearts seeing as we know it's not the ten commandments in the form given in the Law.

What is this New Covenant that Ezekiel is prophesying about that was to come and now is here manifested in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection?

What is the Law Written on Our Hearts?

Six-hundred years before Jesus came, the prophet Jeremiah spoke of a new covenant that God would make with his people:

“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.” (Jer 31:33-34)

What is the law that God writes on our hearts and minds? Here are three things it is not:

• It is not the law of Moses. As we saw in the last post, if God wrote the Ten Commandments on our hearts then Jesus died for nothing.

It is not a new and improved version of the law. It is not the new commands of Jesus or the New Testament. We cannot please God by keeping a new law any more than we could please him by keeping an old one.

• It is not the knowledge of right and wrong that was bestowed upon us – against the Lord’s wishes – by Adam.

So what is this law that the Lord writes on our hearts and minds and embeds in our very being?

It is Christ Himself.

Let’s look at three things the New Testament says about the new law in our hearts.

1. The law of love

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (John 13:34)

Under the old law covenant, love was demanded from you. “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.”

But under the new covenant of grace, love is given to you – “As I have loved you” – and out of the overflow of Christ’s measureless love we are able to love others.

How does it happen?

God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. (Rom 5:5)

God abundantly pours his love into our hearts by giving us the Holy Spirit, a.k.a. the Spirit of Christ. Do you see the difference between the old and new?

• Under the old, the law was a rule for weak men to obey. Under the new, the Law is the Spirit of Christ given to us, loving us, and loving others through us.

• Under the old, you loved others because you feared punishment. But under the new, you love because a Lover lives in you and it is his nature to love.

• Under the old, you had to make an effort to obey. But under the new you have to make an effort to disobey. It’s a whole new way of life.

2. The law of the Spirit of life

It’s important that you understand the difference between the old law (a written code you can’t keep) and the new Law (Christ himself, living in you). Try and live by the old laws, as Paul did, and it make you miserable:

What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? (Rom 7:24)

Paul couldn’t keep the old law no matter how hard he tried. He needed a new law and that new law is a Who:

Who will rescue me…? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 7:24-25a)

Do you see? The old law is a what; the new law is a Who. The old law ministers condemnation and death (2 Cor 3:7-9), but the new “law of the Spirit gives life” (Rom 8:2).

For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Cor 3:6)

Who gives life? Not a set of rules, but the Spirit of Christ within you. The new law is a Who.

3. The perfect law of liberty

James wrote of “the perfect law that gives freedom” (Jas 1:25), which can be contrasted with the law of Moses that binds (Rom 7:6). What is the perfect law that gives freedom? Well, what is the implanted word that can save you (Jas 1:21)? It’s not the Ten Commandments or the Bible. It’s Jesus, the living Word who sets us free.

The perfect law of liberty describes what Jesus has done (perfectly fulfilled or completed the law) and the fruit he will bear in our lives (liberty) if we trust him.

But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it – not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it – they will be blessed in what they do. (Jas 1:25)

Look into the mirror of Moses’ law and you will be miserable, for it exposes all your faults. But look into the perfect law which is Jesus and you will be blessed, for it reveals his righteousness.

“Don’t just listen but do what it (the perfect law of liberty) says” (Jas 1:22). In other words, allow the Spirit of Christ to convince you that in him you are righteous and holy.

Don’t walk away from the perfect law and forget who you are in Christ. Fix your eyes on Jesus. Look intently with an unveiled face and be transformed into his likeness.

The Law written in our hearts is Jesus

Jeremiah said those who had the new law written on their hearts would know the Lord and would no longer need others to teach them. This is describing your union with Christ. One with the Lord you have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16). His Spirit dwells in you and teaches you all things (John 14:26).

The law of the Lord written into your members is your Father’s spiritual DNA. It is the seed of God birthed in you by the Holy Spirit. It’s Jesus Himself.

How do you know He’s there? Because you are a new creation with new hopes and desires. You no longer want to sin. Your desire is to love God and others and that desire has nothing to do with old rules written in stone.

Christian, you are who you are because Christ lives in you. He is the new law written, by God, in your heart and mind.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/04/...on-our-hearts/

 

[disciplemike]

Follow the pattern.
God chose Israel to be a light to the nations.
God established His covenant with them and gave them instructions.
Israel failed to keep the instructions.
God punished Israel.
God also, implemented a plan, to restore His people, because He had made a promise to Abraham.
You can have faith in God's promise, but, keep in mind, God expects His people to be a light by obeying His instructions.

 

[MikeHenderson]

Then give us a list of all the instructions you claim we need to keep. I'm also still waiting for your COMPLETE list of ALL the Laws we have to keep!