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Brother Oyster.
The Scriptures you posted in support of the first post you published on this Thread, while well intended, do not actually support the assertion of "I want to be the one able to say Yes Lord to anything God asks of me."
This passage of Scripture has nothing to do with one slaying their child on an alter.
Jesus Christ Himself died once, for all mankind, for all time, and, NEVER AGAIN will God require a blood sacrifice for ANY REASON! To entertain the idea that He would is to "spit on" the sacrifice of Christ in my opinion. While not intended to be, it is an insult of great magnitude, and borders on heresy in my opinion.
The quoted passage of Scripture is in support of the teachings of Jesus concerning "in all things, put God first." He is teaching that we are NEVER for any reason to abandon our love for Him, and our faith, because we love another more. That would be putting THEM first in our hearts/lives.
Even if we have a father. mother, brother, sister who does not love God, who is not of the Faith, and demands that we abandon our God and our Faith, we ARE NOT TO DO SO.
That is all it is teaching.
GOD WILL NEVER AGAIN REQUIRE A BLOOD SACRIFICE BY ANYONE FOR ANY REASON.
It truly saddens my heart to realize that there are people who would entertain such a thought, for it so very much discounts the sacrifice of Christ, and the Word of God.
I do not want these words of mine to be taken as stern rebuke, for they are not intended to be. Rather, they are published with Christian love, and a desire to relieve ANYONE from entertaining such a possibility as is put forth in the Title of this OP. In my personal opinion, threads with such a subject, such an inflammatory subject matter, should be deleted from the Forums as soon as they are identified. For they are so very much against the Word of God as to border on open heresy.
The Scriptures you posted in support of the first post you published on this Thread, while well intended, do not actually support the assertion of "I want to be the one able to say Yes Lord to anything God asks of me."
This passage of Scripture has nothing to do with one slaying their child on an alter.
Jesus Christ Himself died once, for all mankind, for all time, and, NEVER AGAIN will God require a blood sacrifice for ANY REASON! To entertain the idea that He would is to "spit on" the sacrifice of Christ in my opinion. While not intended to be, it is an insult of great magnitude, and borders on heresy in my opinion.
The quoted passage of Scripture is in support of the teachings of Jesus concerning "in all things, put God first." He is teaching that we are NEVER for any reason to abandon our love for Him, and our faith, because we love another more. That would be putting THEM first in our hearts/lives.
Even if we have a father. mother, brother, sister who does not love God, who is not of the Faith, and demands that we abandon our God and our Faith, we ARE NOT TO DO SO.
That is all it is teaching.
GOD WILL NEVER AGAIN REQUIRE A BLOOD SACRIFICE BY ANYONE FOR ANY REASON.
It truly saddens my heart to realize that there are people who would entertain such a thought, for it so very much discounts the sacrifice of Christ, and the Word of God.
I do not want these words of mine to be taken as stern rebuke, for they are not intended to be. Rather, they are published with Christian love, and a desire to relieve ANYONE from entertaining such a possibility as is put forth in the Title of this OP. In my personal opinion, threads with such a subject, such an inflammatory subject matter, should be deleted from the Forums as soon as they are identified. For they are so very much against the Word of God as to border on open heresy.
that is
S
thank you all for your responses...
i find them at the same time revealing and disturbing.
the disagreement makes it clear to me that there are ground in the bible for actually saying, "yes, i would sacrifice my child". those who said so apparently consider themselves good christians.
many of you responded in the negative saying that god would not ask that, and that is what i want to believe, but i'm affraid the truth is, the bible leaves it as a possibility that God would ask such a thing and that you would then have to comply. who are you to argue with God, or to presume what he would ask or not? what do you know? maybe God has higher plans you are not aware of.
so i think it is clear that God could ask such a thing, and that while most would balk, me the first, a true christian would be complelled to comply. some, like it has been done here, would rationalize, saying that maybe it is for the best for the sacrificed child. such talk is horrible, people who advocate this are monsters, I am increasingly disturbed to count them as coreligionists. they would do that in the name of the bible?
i have to ask them something, those who said yes:
At what point would you try to acertain it was really God speaking to you, and not your deluded brain making it up? how could you ever be certain it was God telling you to sacrifice your child? And what if you were indeed deluded about it and killed your child anyway?
have any of you ever heard of a crazy mormon called Dan Lafferty? that's what he did, he sacrificed a child (and his mum too) and felt no remorse because he claims God told him to. I think all here would agree he is a nutcase. you who said yes, how would you acertain you are not one as well?
i find them at the same time revealing and disturbing.
the disagreement makes it clear to me that there are ground in the bible for actually saying, "yes, i would sacrifice my child". those who said so apparently consider themselves good christians.
many of you responded in the negative saying that god would not ask that, and that is what i want to believe, but i'm affraid the truth is, the bible leaves it as a possibility that God would ask such a thing and that you would then have to comply. who are you to argue with God, or to presume what he would ask or not? what do you know? maybe God has higher plans you are not aware of.
so i think it is clear that God could ask such a thing, and that while most would balk, me the first, a true christian would be complelled to comply. some, like it has been done here, would rationalize, saying that maybe it is for the best for the sacrificed child. such talk is horrible, people who advocate this are monsters, I am increasingly disturbed to count them as coreligionists. they would do that in the name of the bible?
i have to ask them something, those who said yes:
At what point would you try to acertain it was really God speaking to you, and not your deluded brain making it up? how could you ever be certain it was God telling you to sacrifice your child? And what if you were indeed deluded about it and killed your child anyway?
have any of you ever heard of a crazy mormon called Dan Lafferty? that's what he did, he sacrificed a child (and his mum too) and felt no remorse because he claims God told him to. I think all here would agree he is a nutcase. you who said yes, how would you acertain you are not one as well?
R
i disagree...the bible does -not- leave open any such possibility...
deuteronomy 13:1-5..."If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your God is testing you to find out if you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall follow the Lord your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has counseled rebellion against the Lord your God who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, to seduce you from the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from among you."
God does not send anyone 'messages' that tell people to disobey what he has already commanded...
deuteronomy 13:1-5..."If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your God is testing you to find out if you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall follow the Lord your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has counseled rebellion against the Lord your God who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, to seduce you from the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from among you."
God does not send anyone 'messages' that tell people to disobey what he has already commanded...
S
He doesn't?
Then how did the prophets knew that some of the old laws in the Old testament were now obsolete, such as offerings (Exodus 22:29 is a good example)? you don't do that, I don't do that, why not, because elsewhere in the bible some prophets wrote about God telling them such "offerings" were not good.
I asked earlier if God could change his mind, somebody responded "yes, he did 27 times". i haven't checked but i take it he was probably correct. so if God did not send anybody "messages" how did the word got out about the new thing God wanted? are you saying the prophets just made it up in their heads?
there is the new coveneant of Jesus of course, but that's not the whole story, there were also things that were made obsolete in the OT itself, so how else that through prophets did God convey the message?
Then how did the prophets knew that some of the old laws in the Old testament were now obsolete, such as offerings (Exodus 22:29 is a good example)? you don't do that, I don't do that, why not, because elsewhere in the bible some prophets wrote about God telling them such "offerings" were not good.
I asked earlier if God could change his mind, somebody responded "yes, he did 27 times". i haven't checked but i take it he was probably correct. so if God did not send anybody "messages" how did the word got out about the new thing God wanted? are you saying the prophets just made it up in their heads?
there is the new coveneant of Jesus of course, but that's not the whole story, there were also things that were made obsolete in the OT itself, so how else that through prophets did God convey the message?
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Clearly, you don't have a clue about christianity. The New Covenant is the end of the story and the beginning of the new creation. This new creation (the church, the kingdom of God) is based on love and of forgiveness. Christ said "I want mercy, not sacrifice".
If someone (even an angel) comes and asks you sacrifices you should know it is not from God. Saint Paul warned us about this. You mentioned a mormon who sacrificed his child and his mother. Aren't the mormons those that ADDed things to the revelation, those that claim an angel dictated them a new testament? Why talk about mormons on a CHRISTIAN chat. They are obviously not christian since they go against what Saint Paul said (which is not to trust angels who teach you differently than what he thought).
So no, God wouldn't ask you to sacrifice your child and if you knew your own faith you would have known this.
If someone (even an angel) comes and asks you sacrifices you should know it is not from God. Saint Paul warned us about this. You mentioned a mormon who sacrificed his child and his mother. Aren't the mormons those that ADDed things to the revelation, those that claim an angel dictated them a new testament? Why talk about mormons on a CHRISTIAN chat. They are obviously not christian since they go against what Saint Paul said (which is not to trust angels who teach you differently than what he thought).
So no, God wouldn't ask you to sacrifice your child and if you knew your own faith you would have known this.
Hi, the question is are you saved? Do you know for sure that if you die today, are you 100% going to heaven?
If not yet sure:
1. Accept that you are sinner Romans 3:23
2. Believe in Christ died for your sins and that He was buried and resurrected for you and me
3. Confess him in your heart to become your Saviour.
God bless
If not yet sure:
1. Accept that you are sinner Romans 3:23
2. Believe in Christ died for your sins and that He was buried and resurrected for you and me
3. Confess him in your heart to become your Saviour.
God bless
S
My point is that the bible is actually pretty confusing about this as clearly indicated by the number of people who answered yes, i would. Are you saying they Are not christians and know nothing about their faith? I think instead it shows that the message is unclear and open to interpretation, hence my doubts and confusion. ( not about sacrifice though, i would NOT sacrifice my child even if God asked).
My doubts now are more about the validity of the communication with God, about how we can know what He wants. The bible appears unreliable and open to interpretation, as my recent search about how many christian denominations there are demonstrate: more than 40000. That leaves direct communication but that doesnt seemvery reliable to me either since it is very subjective So what s left? Nothing i m afraid. We can t be sure what God wants or expect of us. I find that disturbing.
My doubts now are more about the validity of the communication with God, about how we can know what He wants. The bible appears unreliable and open to interpretation, as my recent search about how many christian denominations there are demonstrate: more than 40000. That leaves direct communication but that doesnt seemvery reliable to me either since it is very subjective So what s left? Nothing i m afraid. We can t be sure what God wants or expect of us. I find that disturbing.
Abraham knew that Gods word is true. God had promised to bless Abraham through Isaac Abraham had reasoned that God would raise Isaacc from the dead because He is faithful to His word. I'm glad Abraham obeyed, that was the beginning of the new covenant. Gods ways are higher than ours in the end though, isaacc was unharmend and the world was offered salvation, so it worked out amazing by trusting God as Abraham did expressing it through his obedience because He believed God, Just as were supposed to do because we believe Jesus.
You are right. You are not the only one who is clueless about christianity (don't take this as an insult). You are also right (unfortunately) when you say that there are more than 40.000 christian denominations. So, almost each christian has its own christianiy and worships his own Jesus Christ.
There is something left to do: study christianity. Nowadays, information is at our reach.
There is something left to do: study christianity. Nowadays, information is at our reach.
the 4 gospels are the actual account of Jesus, so if wed all just go learn those 4 books, wed all know the true Jesus. we see how he treats others, we see all of his teachings of how to live, we see all he did for us, we see who Jesus is, learn His character, His Love, His power and authority. I cant understand why all the disputes don't just all go to the words of the One Jesus, if we have trouble understanding, james 1 :5 " if anyone lacks wisdom he should ask God who gives generously without finding fault."
God wants us to know Jesus, that's why we have the detailed account of His ministry and His crucifixion and resurrection the rest of the nt we have all of his followers telling us about Him, all of the ot we have telling us hes coming, hes the savior, hes the Lord, Hes the one, hes the messiah.....the nt, Hes the Lord, the savior, the king, the messiah. the high priest, the good shepherd, the WORD of God, the first and last, the alpha and omega......The Son of the Living God, Jesus, the Christ. anyone who ever wants to know the real true Jesus, just has to believe in His real true Words. to say I believe, should mean I believe in Him, I believe what He is saying, I trust Jesus enough to believe Him, not just that He exists, but that what He is saying is true, and eternal. He says that it is. matthew, mark, Luke, and John is how we know who Jesus is and all that He said to do, and be. its really quite simply laid out in the bible.
this is just some thinking from your comment, not directed towards you in any way just what you said about everyone having thoier own Jesus made me think how the one true Christ is detailed in the gospel
But the whole deal boils down to " trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding". This applied to Abraham, AND to us.
The Holy Spirit will reveal more and more understanding as you grow in Christ.
So the trust (faith) we have that Jesus' Sacrifice was sufficient is enough to KNOW that a request given such as killing your child would not be from God, but from the evil one.
Peace love and Grace to you.
The Holy Spirit will reveal more and more understanding as you grow in Christ.
So the trust (faith) we have that Jesus' Sacrifice was sufficient is enough to KNOW that a request given such as killing your child would not be from God, but from the evil one.
Peace love and Grace to you.
S
The authorship of the Gospels is far from clear. I think it is far from unanimously accepted by biblical scholars that the apostles actually did write the gospels themselves, in fact the gospels were written decades after the events so it seems extremely unlikely they were written by actual eyewitnesses with any kind of accuracy, to say the least. I had a friend who was undergoing seminary training and he explained to me some of the stuff they learn there and that he was struggling with, honnestly, I was shocked as well. It is far from certain that we know what Jesus actually said and did and that is what they teach wannabe preachers because there is no way around it. If you are not aware of it, just ask your pastor.
So in fact she is right, everyone have their own Jesus. And that is what I'm struggling with. We can't be sure what God wants or expect of us. If you are saying you can, I'd like you to explain to me how. The bible by itself is not clear enough and reliable enough, it is too open to interpretation, as this thread shows clearly. How many contradictory responses did I get for my simple question about such a morally important subject? And there are many other subjects upon which there is no definitive answer. That is a problem to me. And it goes further than just christianity, if the truth is availaible and obvious, then why isn't everybody on this planet a christian? Why muslims and hindous and whatnots? it doesn't make sense. it is extremely confusing. I don't want to just believe whatever people tell me, i want to know.
So in fact she is right, everyone have their own Jesus. And that is what I'm struggling with. We can't be sure what God wants or expect of us. If you are saying you can, I'd like you to explain to me how. The bible by itself is not clear enough and reliable enough, it is too open to interpretation, as this thread shows clearly. How many contradictory responses did I get for my simple question about such a morally important subject? And there are many other subjects upon which there is no definitive answer. That is a problem to me. And it goes further than just christianity, if the truth is availaible and obvious, then why isn't everybody on this planet a christian? Why muslims and hindous and whatnots? it doesn't make sense. it is extremely confusing. I don't want to just believe whatever people tell me, i want to know.
S
peace unto you too, but frankly, my heart pumps blood.
If God didn't want us to "lean on our own understanding" as you say, why did he give us a brain to reason with?
1 Peter 3:15
but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;
Isaiah 1:18
"Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD, "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.
Isaiah 43:26
"Put Me in remembrance, let us argue our case together; State your cause, that you may be proved right.
Acts 17:1-3
Now when they had traveled through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the Christ."
If it is good for them it is good for me. I cannot trust the Lord for no reason. If I do not have the bible for that, then what?
blind trust?
why not believe in Allah or Ganeesha or the flying spagueti monster then?
Maybe it was a mistake for me to come discuss this here, you people are making me believe less and less.
If God didn't want us to "lean on our own understanding" as you say, why did he give us a brain to reason with?
1 Peter 3:15
but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;
Isaiah 1:18
"Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD, "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.
Isaiah 43:26
"Put Me in remembrance, let us argue our case together; State your cause, that you may be proved right.
Acts 17:1-3
Now when they had traveled through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the Christ."
If it is good for them it is good for me. I cannot trust the Lord for no reason. If I do not have the bible for that, then what?
blind trust?
why not believe in Allah or Ganeesha or the flying spagueti monster then?
Maybe it was a mistake for me to come discuss this here, you people are making me believe less and less.
