Yes I am a Calvinist

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DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
839
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#41
Watchmen, honestly I think your creed is slander against God. You make God sound weak and like He puts the burden of His childrens salvation squarely on their shoulders. You tread close to a works salvation. Look back at your posts if you like, your wording puts the responsiblity on the mans shoulders. Because of the acceptance on sin in churches today you demand that goats act like sheep. Any commitment a man has to God is put on his soul by God. It doesn't come from the man himself. The important thing, which I've heard a true armenian understands is that man has no ability to win or keep his salvation. Which the majority of people who protest calvinism do not believe.

I think the main difference armenian vs calvinist comes down to is this, calvinist believe God's will is stronger than man's will and armenians believe man's will is stronger than God's will? Which do you believe?
 
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Cako53

Guest
#42
Watchmen, honestly I think your creed is slander against God. You make God sound weak and like He puts the burden of His childrens salvation squarely on their shoulders. You tread close to a works salvation. Look back at your posts if you like, your wording puts the responsiblity on the mans shoulders. Because of the acceptance on sin in churches today you demand that goats act like sheep. Any commitment a man has to God is put on his soul by God. It doesn't come from the man himself. The important thing, which I've heard a true armenian understands is that man has no ability to win or keep his salvation. Which the majority of people who protest calvinism do not believe.

I think the main difference armenian vs calvinist comes down to is this, calvinist believe God's will is stronger than man's will and armenians believe man's will is stronger than God's will? Which do you believe?
I think you have it totally wrong!!!! Calvinist believe that God pre decides everything! and armenian believe that God created us with a free will so he wouldn't just have an "army" of unthinking "robots" worshipping him.
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
#43
Watchmen, honestly I think your creed is slander against God. You make God sound weak and like He puts the burden of His childrens salvation squarely on their shoulders. You tread close to a works salvation. Look back at your posts if you like, your wording puts the responsiblity on the mans shoulders. Because of the acceptance on sin in churches today you demand that goats act like sheep. Any commitment a man has to God is put on his soul by God. It doesn't come from the man himself. The important thing, which I've heard a true armenian understands is that man has no ability to win or keep his salvation. Which the majority of people who protest calvinism do not believe.

I think the main difference armenian vs calvinist comes down to is this, calvinist believe God's will is stronger than man's will and armenians believe man's will is stronger than God's will? Which do you believe?
Maybe, just maybe an all-powerful God can create humans who are free-moral beings and He respects their choice?

We aren't predestined robots as the calvinists claim. God gives us the choice to live with Him or to live without Him. And yes I can provide Scripture of people rejecting God's "irresistible" grace..

Romans 8:18-32, Romans 11:11-36, Hebrews 6:1-8.. I'll post that one as an example expecting you will read those other passages which are too long to post.

Hebrews 6
1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this we will do if God permits.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

Who are you to control how God judges just because your idea of God, given that circumstance you consider "weak".. Who are you to speak against God and make up lies to try and make Him sound stronger?
 

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
839
19
18
#44
Maybe, just maybe an all-powerful God can create humans who are free-moral beings and He respects their choice?

We aren't predestined robots as the calvinists claim. God gives us the choice to live with Him or to live without Him. And yes I can provide Scripture of people rejecting God's "irresistible" grace..

Romans 8:18-32, Romans 11:11-36, Hebrews 6:1-8.. I'll post that one as an example expecting you will read those other passages which are too long to post.

Hebrews 6
1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this we will do if God permits.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

Who are you to control how God judges just because your idea of God, given that circumstance you consider "weak".. Who are you to speak against God and make up lies to try and make Him sound stronger?
Who are you to question God's election, as Paul asked in romans 9 i believe.
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
#45
Who are you to question God's election, as Paul asked in romans 9 i believe.
Um you wouldn't be trying to contradict Scripture with Scripture would you?

Paul'was talking about Gentiles receiving salvation in Romans 9 .. God will have mercy on whoever He wants.

Let me post part of Romans 11...

Romans 11
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.
15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
 

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
839
19
18
#46
Hmm you say I lie about God, then when I ask you why you question God's election as Paul did in scripture to the romans, you then accuse me on contridicting scripture with scripture?

Your understanding that he was just talking about the jews vs the gentiles doesn't hold water.

rom 9:24 even us whom He called, not of the jews only, but also of the gentiles?

anyway I'm sure this verse has showed you election before and you have hurried threw scripture to explain it away. Have fun.

Why aren't you in school by the way?
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
#48
Hmm you say I lie about God, then when I ask you why you question God's election as Paul did in scripture to the romans, you then accuse me on contridicting scripture with scripture?

Your understanding that he was just talking about the jews vs the gentiles doesn't hold water.

rom 9:24 even us whom He called, not of the jews only, but also of the gentiles?

anyway I'm sure this verse has showed you election before and you have hurried threw scripture to explain it away. Have fun.

Why aren't you in school by the way?
Well it's really interesting when you read Romans 9, you can also read Romans 10, than Romans 11 etc etc!!.. Scripture usually... (wait for it)....EXPLAINS Scripture!

it's not "my" understanding of it. It's exactly what Paul says in Romans 11 (that was after he wrote Romans 9)..So I highly doubt he's contradicting himself.
My purpose of posting Hebrews 6, Romans 1:18-32 and Romans 11 was so maybe you could give me your explanation of those verses that contradict the doctrine of irresistible grace. Not to mention there is no need for grace if we are predestined :p but that's just another example of Calvinism and it's inconsistency.
 
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DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
839
19
18
#49
Well it's really interesting when you read Romans 9, you can also read Romans 10, than Romans 11 etc etc!!.. Scripture usually... (wait for it)....EXPLAINS Scripture!

it's not "my" understanding of it. It's exactly what Paul says in Romans 11 (that was after he wrote Romans 9)..So I highly doubt he's contradicting himself.
Actually I believe romans 10 is right after romans 9, but thats just 'my' understanding of it. :)
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
#50
Actually I believe romans 10 is right after romans 9, but thats just 'my' understanding of it. :)
You don't believe 11 comes after 10 which comes after 9?

But that is what a happens a lot of the times in debates, people who have weak arguments can not stay consistent with them so they make personal attacks.
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
#52
Yes and with this understanding I also believe that revelations 3 comes after romans 11.
Seeing how you didn't even touch on any Scripture I posted I'm jut going to stop because it's really pointless arguing with someone who is not willing to admit they may be wrong. You just try to contradict Scripture with the Scripture I posted which makes absolutely no sense because the Scripture I posted is also in your bible.
 

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
839
19
18
#53
Seeing how you didn't even touch on any Scripture I posted I'm jut going to stop because it's really pointless arguing with someone who is not willing to admit they may be wrong. You just try to contradict Scripture with the Scripture I posted which makes absolutely no sense because the Scripture I posted is also in your bible.
I totally agree with you on this.
 
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Phoenix

Guest
#54
I think you have it totally wrong!!!! Calvinist believe that God pre decides everything! and armenian believe that God created us with a free will so he wouldn't just have an "army" of unthinking "robots" worshipping him.
Ok..wait a minute falsly painting calvinism alert.
We do not belive we are robots. yes we have been predestined for hell or for heaven. we believe in a free will to an extent but it is prone to more sin than good. we love our sin and hate God. so we are either slaves to our sins or slaves to righteousness(i am trying to remember a scripture it sounds familiar but it'll come to me later) A perfect example is Jacob and Esau. God loved Jacob yet hated Esau.

oh and sorry for the random caps. 1.I type like that sometimes. 2. I was tired when writing that. but I do not see myself at the same level with God by typing random caps.
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
#55
Phoenix, so you believe we were predestined for heaven and hell. Can I ask, honestly what is the point of evangelism?

I say that with these thoughts in mind and maybe this example will help.

--
Bob was predestined to go to heaven.
Bill was predestined to go to hell.

There is nothing Bill or Bob can do to change their eternity. Bill will go to hell no matter how many seeds someone plants and God waters.

Bob will got to heaven if he has confessed Jesus as Lord or not.
--

So my question is why preach the gospel if it has no effect? Why would we preach to those who are predestined to go to heaven? They are going to go there anyway!

Why would we preach to those who were predestined to go to hell? They are going to go there no matter what!

Edit: Please do not post calvinistic doctrines, I honestly want to hear you, your opinion on the matter.
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
#56
maybe with this Scripture in mind.

James 5
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

I just don't see how eternal predestination fits in with that.
 
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Phoenix

Guest
#57
Phoenix, so you believe we were predestined for heaven and hell. Can I ask, honestly what is the point of evangelism?

I say that with these thoughts in mind and maybe this example will help.

--
Bob was predestined to go to heaven.
Bill was predestined to go to hell.

There is nothing Bill or Bob can do to change their eternity. Bill will go to hell no matter how many seeds someone plants and God waters.

Bob will got to heaven if he has confessed Jesus as Lord or not.
--

So my question is why preach the gospel if it has no effect? Why would we preach to those who are predestined to go to heaven? They are going to go there anyway!

Why would we preach to those who were predestined to go to hell? They are going to go there no matter what!

Edit: Please do not post calvinistic doctrines, I honestly want to hear you, your opinion on the matter.
Friend you are making it seem as though God won't change Bob. If Bob truly is an elect God will call him before the man dies or in his last breath.
 
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Phoenix

Guest
#58
maybe with this Scripture in mind.

James 5
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

I just don't see how eternal predestination fits in with that.
i'm guessing you missed the first part of the verse. it is talking about showing a christian to bring him back to the truth and away from false teachings
 
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Phoenix

Guest
#59
I evangelize more and more because I know God has His people out there and I do not know who they are so I preach because there is purpose. there will be people saved
 
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
5
0
#60
Watchmen, honestly I think your creed is slander against God. You make God sound weak
And what creed is that.

I think the main difference armenian vs calvinist comes down to is this, calvinist believe God's will is stronger than man's will and armenians believe man's will is stronger than God's will? Which do you believe?
I believe in the all loving, true God of the Bible that sent His Son so no one would have to suffer in Hell. Calvinist believe in an evil God that decided that most humans would burn in Hell before He even created the earth.
 
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