Donald Trump Bans Transgenders in the Military

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,680
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This whole issue is not about ideology. It's about military readiness.
if a person's gender or lack thereof was a matter of military readiness, we need to have the conversation about women in the armed forces again. :p

being identified in one form or another as transgender doesn't necessarily mean a person is medically & physically unfit to serve. if it were about military readiness, we would be talking about requiring anyone seeking unnecessary, cosmetic 'surgeries' to defer them until they were discharged, & if it were about cost we would be talking about requiring any such people to pay out of their own pocket ((which i think is a most important point to be made: taxpayer dollars should not pay for any attempted gender reassignment))

but see, none of this makes sense. the solid arguments on this topic don't reasonably lead to banning all transgender people from service, and the arguments for doing it are irrational & or ideological.
the idea of the whole thing being a stab at unblocking an argument in congress so money for his wall can try to get appropriated, and simultaneously drumming up his ultra right-wing base & momentarily grabbing and directing the attention of the nation away from the election-tampering investigation, doesn't seem far-fetched to me. obfuscation & misdirection is 'the art of the deal'
 
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Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
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if a person's gender or lack thereof was a matter of military readiness, we need to have the conversation about women in the armed forces again. :p

being identified in one form or another as transgender doesn't necessarily mean a person is medically & physically unfit to serve. if it were about military readiness, we would be talking about requiring anyone seeking unnecessary, cosmetic 'surgeries' to defer them until they were discharged, & if it were about cost we would be talking about requiring any such people to pay out of their own pocket ((which i think is a most important point to be made: taxpayer dollars should not pay for any attempted gender reassignment))

but see, none of this makes sense. the solid arguments on this topic don't reasonably lead to banning all transgender people from service, and the arguments for doing it are irrational & or ideological.
the idea of the whole thing being a stab at unblocking an argument in congress so money for his wall can try to get appropriated, and simultaneously drumming up his ultra right-wing base & momentarily grabbing and directing the attention of the nation away from the election-tampering investigation, doesn't seem far-fetched to me. obfuscation & misdirection is 'the art of the deal'
We do need to talk about women in the military. I remember qhen the gulf war started up, a lot of women who received orders to deploy, suddenly became pregnant. Not too long ago, during the Afghan war, the theater commander had to change policy to discharge women who became pregnant. It is a problem, but everyone wants to stick their head in the sand, and bleed from their pathetic heart.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
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I love America. I'd die for this country if it came down to it.

But the common "you can be anything" presents a challenge to our grip of reality at times.

We do need to talk about women in the military. I remember qhen the gulf war started up, a lot of women who received orders to deploy, suddenly became pregnant. Not too long ago, during the Afghan war, the theater commander had to change policy to discharge women who became pregnant. It is a problem, but everyone wants to stick their head in the sand, and bleed from their pathetic heart.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
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I still can't believe the women's draft question at a the Republican debate.

Half the candidates were just repeating idiotic bromides of "I tell my daughter she can do anything she likes."

We're not talking hopes and dreams, you morons. We're talking about forced conscription of women. It's immoral.

The only one with any sense that night was Ted Cruz.
 
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ROSSELLA

Guest
Always good to know why. Are you for people joining the military to get their "gender reassignment" surgery at the cost of Americans and those in the military?

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/26/trump-transgender-military-ban-behind-the-scenes-240990
No. But one can stop funding sex changes and still allow transgenders to serve in the military. If they pass a psych. and physical evaluation, I see no reason why transsexuals shouldn't be allowed to serve.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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I love America. I'd die for this country if it came down to it.

But the common "you can be anything" presents a challenge to our grip of reality at times.
I totally agree with that, and it's one of my pet peeves. No, you cannot become "anything you want" -- it's a lie and is pure sensationalism and empty emotionalism. People are hoodwinked by this so it's no wonder that Joel Osteen has such a following.
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,151
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I love America. I'd die for this country if it came down to it.

But the common "you can be anything" presents a challenge to our grip of reality at times.
I can't be Chris Pratt, no matter how much I want to.
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,151
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No. But one can stop funding sex changes and still allow transgenders to serve in the military. If they pass a psych. and physical evaluation, I see no reason why transsexuals shouldn't be allowed to serve.
Go start an army, and let all of them you want in.
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,151
113
I still can't believe the women's draft question at a the Republican debate.

Half the candidates were just repeating idiotic bromides of "I tell my daughter she can do anything she likes."

We're not talking hopes and dreams, you morons. We're talking about forced conscription of women. It's immoral.

The only one with any sense that night was Ted Cruz.
The hell if my daughter is going to war. She is to marry a kind and wealthy man, and she can give birth to as many soldiers as she pleases.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
I think gender fluidity is an interesting concept, less cringeworthy than other things. What does the bible have to say about it? It doesn't because its a newly formed concept. Surely people should be allowed to not be judged by the physical flesh they live in. I'm not a homophobe like it appears some uneducated people on this thread are, although it doesn't mean I agree with it. I think it is better to be accepting of people rather than to suppress them.

Suppression is an evil in itself. How can you bring people into the light if you suppress them, and unwittingly push them into dark places, and into the wrong hands, and the wrong crowd. There are gays and there are gays, just like there are straight people and straight people, both capable of wicked things.

However it is easy for a Christian to scapegoat that which the bible appears to 'allow them' to. Of course forget about Jesus talking about love, forget about that one. Even the majority of Muslims are peaceful, but those who are not, or those that come from deprived nations (not real Muslims), do the same thing, they take context out of their holy book and use it for their own agenda 'against the wicked'. Often when people do that, they themselves are wicked. And it is wicked because it is without love, to be against 'an enemy'. Just like people might talk here. Say something loving for a change.
What the Bible has to say about it:
Matt. 19:[FONT=&quot]3 And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?”[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?”[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” 11 But he said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”[/FONT]
 
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ROSSELLA

Guest
So what? I work for a government agency, and the public knows more about what goes on with our work than we do. Always been that way.
There's a difference between the public knowing more about a topic than officials and officials knowing absolutely nothing. Clearly whoever was in charge of speaking to the Press wasn't even given a five minute briefing or a short statement about the decision. Our generals may not be perfect but I trust them enough to think they've been through too many media outcries to not prepare for...well, anything.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
No. But one can stop funding sex changes and still allow transgenders to serve in the military. If they pass a psych. and physical evaluation, I see no reason why transsexuals shouldn't be allowed to serve.
That's nice, but we're not talking transsexuals. We're talking transgender.

They can't pass the physical! There is the problem. Transgender is very much a mental problem. No one is transgender and mentally fit.

As for transsexuals? Real transsexuals? No idea what becomes of them. Do you?
 
R

ROSSELLA

Guest
Go start an army, and let all of them you want in.
The U.S.A already has one, and Trump isn't the only one who gets to decide who's allowed in. There's no way this isn't going to court.
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,151
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There's a difference between the public knowing more about a topic than officials and officials knowing absolutely nothing. Clearly whoever was in charge of speaking to the Press wasn't even given a five minute briefing or a short statement about the decision. Our generals may not be perfect but I trust them enough to think they've been through too many media outcries to not prepare for...well, anything.
Why do you care?
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,151
113
The U.S.A already has one, and Trump isn't the only one who gets to decide who's allowed in. There's no way this isn't going to court.
It ain't going nowhere in court, and the legislature has given the president the authority to do this.