'Pedophilia is OK,' says Priest

[RickyZ]

The programs they go through are not just lists of check-offs, to move them through pages in a book. The programs are to teach them life-patterns and safety procedures. To develop habits and instinctive reactions. And one of the first things they teach themselves is to be aware of ages of others (looking to avoid minors)... then they get automatically imprinted to remove themselves from potentially dangerous situations.

There are hundreds of other things, but it would take weeks to tell you all of them, and months for you to understand the whys and wherefores of their meanings and the usage of them as preventatives and safe guards.

They also learn that they DO NOT "get cured". But, rather, they learn to restructure their thinking and perceptions. One thing every Sex Offender knows is that they (and actually each of us... "Yes", you and me) are but one "trigger" from being a law breaker... whether it be their way, or another that each of us may be more susceptible to.

So, although I am not understanding the confusion you seem to express, I do want to make it clear that Sex Offenders are no more "cured" of their problems than you or I are "cured" of that particular thing we used to fight, but now try to claim we have completely licked. All of us just learn how to live without those things disrupting our lives anymore..... as long as we avoid the triggers and situations that wreck our train.

I've re-read the thread, and while you've flip flopped like a Republican after the primaries on an issue or two, perhaps I've confused you with Ken. Sorry.

Stick with your Harvard study, I'm 99% with you on it. But for the 100% I still have to go back to the Bible and Matthew13:58 - And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith. Sure that 1% is a longshot bet, but I've seen them pay off none the less.

 

[Willie-T]

I've re-read the thread, and while you've flip flopped like a Republican after the primaries on an issue or two, perhaps I've confused you with Ken. Sorry.

Stick with your Harvard study, I'm 99% with you on it. But for the 100% I still have to go back to the Bible and Matthew13:58 - And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith. Sure that 1% is a longshot bet, but I've seen them pay off none the less.

What Harvard study?

And please feel free to post where I "flip-flopped." (But please post MY replies, not someone else's.)

 

[Utah]

I'm not sure I follow you. We have a guy saying leopards never change their spots; you and I argue that while it's rare it does happen, guy 1 equates being forgiven with getting off the hook, I say no forgive but keep them on the hook until such time as they can prove their trustworthiness, and now you say I'm out to lunch on that, it never happens. Willie, where did we go wrong?

YOu were wrong for disagreeing with me in the first place.

Just kidding, Brother. Hope all is well with you and yours tonight, and always.

 

[Oncefallen]

I want you to carefully read the following:

"I want to describe a child molester I know very well. This man was raised by devout Christian parents. As a child he rarely missed church. Even after he became an adult, he was faithful as a church member. He was a straight A student in high school and college. He has been married and has a child of his own. He coached Little League baseball. He was a choir director at his church. He never used any illegal drugs. He never had a drink of alcohol. He was considered a clean-cut, all-American boy. Everyone seemed to like him. He was a volunteer in numerous civic community functions. He had a well-paying career job. He was considered “well-to-do” in society. But from the age of thirteen years old he sexually molested little boys. He never victimized a stranger. All of his victims were friends…I know this child molester very well because he is me!"

-- Salter, A. (2004). Predators: Pedophiles, rapists, and other sex offenders. New York City: Basic Books. p. 36-37.
​

A man by the last name of Raines, quoted above, was in prison for a short time then was let out on parole. He almost immediately infiltrated a church and became the director of the children’s choir. He was incarcerated two more times after this. Dr. Anna Salter, who met him in prison, followed this direct quote from the man, saying, “I believe in my heart the next time Mr. Raines gets out of prison, he will successfully ingratiate himself in youth activities in a church once more. He will do this even though he now has at least three criminal convictions for child molestation and likely more, all of which any church could have discovered. But who will check criminal records for such an outstanding, polite, well-spoken young man? After all, volunteers are hard to come by” (Salter, 37).

Thankfully, since Dr. Salter had this book published 11 years ago, churches do background checks on all volunteers, for the most part. But I'm sure Raines can find a small rural church that doesn't bother, and when he does, he will repeat.

Forgiveness is necessary, yes, even when the person does not seek it, though until he/she does, there is no need to vocalize it to him/her. But I reiterate, trust must be earned back, and no one can trust a man like Raines. He should be incarcerated for the rest of his natural life, and if you think he has a chance in hell of being "rehabilitated," you are too naïve for the work you volunteer to do.

Years ago Colorado changed their sentencing laws for sex offenders because of cases like this one. Prior to the law change S/O's were sentenced to a specific duration and once the sentence was completed DOC was obligated to release the offender regardless of their risk to re-offend. Literally an offender could tell prison officials that they would definitely re-offend once they got out but DOC could not hold them beyond their mandatory release date (they tried in a couple of cases and lost when the offender sued).

Currently S/O's here are sentenced to indeterminate sentences whether they are sentenced to DOC time or probation. An offender going to DOC will be sentenced 4 to life or six years to life in which case the parole board has no obligation to release them until they are no longer deemed to be a high re-offense risk. Even those men who are sentenced to supervised probation within the community typically are sentenced to 10 years to life. If at the end of ten years they haven't met the criteria they will continue on supervised probation until such time as they meet the criteria for release.

As much as I agree with Willie on most of his stances on this subject, I do agree with Colorado's change in laws in this area.

 

[Willie-T]

Years ago Colorado changed their sentencing laws for sex offenders because of cases like this one. Prior to the law change S/O's were sentenced to a specific duration and once the sentence was completed DOC was obligated to release the offender regardless of their risk to re-offend. Literally an offender could tell prison officials that they would definitely re-offend once they got out but DOC could not hold them beyond their mandatory release date (they tried in a couple of cases and lost when the offender sued).

Currently S/O's here are sentenced to indeterminate sentences whether they are sentenced to DOC time or probation. An offender going to DOC will be sentenced 4 to life or six years to life in which case the parole board has no obligation to release them until they are no longer deemed to be a high re-offense risk. Even those men who are sentenced to supervised probation within the community typically are sentenced to 10 years to life. If at the end of ten years they haven't met the criteria they will continue on supervised probation until such time as they meet the criteria for release.

As much as I agree with Willie on most of his stances on this subject, I do agree with Colorado's change in laws in this area.

Since that law was passed "years ago", I assume Colorado no longer has any child molesting going on. Have you checked recently to see what change, if any, there has been in the rate of those crimes? Yeah, I know.

Here's just a part of it.
Number of children abused or neglected in Colorado rises - The Denver Post

 

[Kefa54]

Personally..Over the years I have learned to look a a person and see them as a human with dreams,feelings, likes,dislikes,problems. choices both good and bad.

We are just human. I have very much learned that being able to love the human despite their behavior is both rewarding and peaceful. No one is all bad OR all good.

I separate the person from the behavior or sin in my spirit. If I had gone through what they did. Might i be the same?

God and governmental law will judge their behavior/sin. It isn't my job to judge their behavior or crimes.

Before you think I have no experience in forgiving or accepting. I am a sexual abuse survivor. In a world of the flesh run buy the flesh. Things happen.
I was just a young boy in the wrong place at the wrong time. My abuse wasn't personal. They didn't set out to hurt Kefa. Any male body would have sufficed.


Kefa

 

[Oncefallen]

Since that law was passed "years ago", I assume Colorado no longer has any child molesting going on. Have you checked recently to see what change, if any, there has been in the rate of those crimes? Yeah, I know.

Here's just a part of it.
Number of children abused or neglected in Colorado rises - The Denver Post

I wasn't arguing that the law in some way was a miracle cure to the rate of sex offenses (in reality the article you posted doesn't even reference sexual abuse) since I am well aware that the majority of sex offense convictions are first timers (at least first time caught), but that for those persons who (based on criteria set by the Sex Offender Management Board) are a very high risk to re-offend, or for those offenders who openly admit that they will re-offend the ability to keep them incarcerated until their risk level drops to specified criteria will help to cut the already low re-offense rates since most re-offenses are committed within a couple of years of release by high risk offenders.

 

[Willie-T]

I wasn't arguing that the law in some way was a miracle cure to the rate of sex offenses (in reality the article you posted doesn't even reference sexual abuse) since I am well aware that the majority of sex offense convictions are first timers (at least first time caught), but that for those persons who (based on criteria set by the Sex Offender Management Board) are a very high risk to re-offend, or for those offenders who openly admit that they will re-offend the ability to keep them incarcerated until their risk level drops to specified criteria will help to cut the already low re-offense rates since most re-offenses are committed within a couple of years of release by high risk offenders.

My apologies. I have heard so much of the stupidity that thinks killing offenders or locking them up till they die is somehow going to stop the rising rate of offences and supposedly protect our children... that I thought you were beating the drum that this barbaric action was somehow a "cure-all" for the problem.