Do the good guys give up too easily?

[Liamson]

In my own personal experience I give a little and then I give a little more but, its what I get from her body language that tells me if I should stay. If I walk away, its not because I'm a coward, its because I feel like I'm not getting anywhere. Reciprocation is really important to me. If have come to claim your conversation and your attention, I do so with the expectation that you will claim mine.

I visited a woman where she works a few times a week, because it was the only time we really got to see each other and talk alone. We got along really well and I liked her. I asked her out and she said sure, but she was busy indefinitely. So I showed up less and less until I quit going. I saw her the other day and she looked sad because she wanted me to keep spending time with her at work and asking her out, even though we never did anything else.

Kind of depressing because I went on a date and she told me that she wished I had taken her instead.

 

[kayem77]

I agree with Matthew in MORE ACTION, LESS ANALYSIS. It does look weird the way he left....but maybe he just needs to be sure he is making the right moves. I don't see nothin wrong with showing him that you care. Guys wanna know too! (I've been told recently)

 

[Jullianna]

I ran into the nice guy at the courthouse about an hour ago. He smiled and waved, so I went over and apologized to him that our conversation had been cut short and said that I hoped I hadn't said anything wrong. He smiled and said that he and Studly Dooright have a negative history and he didn't want to draw me into it. Whew......

Like Liamson was saying, it is about body language, etc. When you are having a GREAT conversation..laughing and kidding around, and suddenly it's as if someone threw a bucket of cold water on you, it can be VERY confusing, huh?

I was talking with a guy friend first thing this AM (who just happens to be a gynecologist..NO, not MINE! That would be TOO wierd) about it. He said that he always uses airplane cockpits to explain the difference between men and women. He said that women are like the panel of a 747, with tons of switches and guages. He said that men are like fans. There's one switch - Off and On. hahahaha He agreed with Matthew that women usually overthink things. *sigh* Bless his heart. If ever I felt sorry for a guy having to deal with all sorts of women all day long, it would be HIM! haha

Thanks for your help all!

 

[jandian]

I think it varies from case to case. Still, I don't think guys these days are very assertive and a lot of women are....Nothing is carved in stone, but I personally would like to meet the guy who knows how to pursue a woman in the wisdom and knowledge of God, to me it represents a parallel truth with spiritual implications....but that's just me......... ah mean Ruth seemed a bit pushy to me and apparently God approved; so who knows....

 

[GreenNnice]

Everyone has to do their part to break out of sterotypes and give up the assumptions we start believing as teenagers.

In the scenario you mentioned the guy did give up too easily, because he probably thought now a rugged bad boy is in the frame he has no chance etc...but the woman could easily break down that wall for him by following him away from the bad boy and making an effort to continue with him.

In general I just feel there's way too much anlaysis in Christian circles about roles and where they stop, where they start and should they overlap etc....
When all is said and done male or female you get the rewards for the effort that you make, it's a poor show for a man to give up assuming a woman won't be interested past a certain point but in equal measure a woman shouldn't think that anything less than 100% dedication to her pursuit is unacceptable.

Within human realtions are a thousand variations, we should all just role with the punches and fight for what we want, more action, less analysis

---

allfunfor, you're not doing it all wrong by expressing your opinion, that is your fight response to a topic touchy to your heart. That is fine, so please don't FLIGHT .

OK, so you believe the lady should pursue the nice guy who has left or else she is being 'weak.' So, she should say, maybe, something to the tune of,' Excuse me, but I was having a conversation with '________(nice guy)' that was cut short, and so, _______( rude guy) , I better catch up with him, no hard feelings.'

julieannie, you feel that it was a personal attack on you but I assure you that 'bluntness,' as allfunfor is self-admittedly known for, is not an attack on you but merely her opinion of what she would do IF she liked nice guy and wanted to continue the conversation with him when rude guy so rudely interrupted, or, at least, let's just say, interrupted, and,he did so in a flirtatious way.
(This, of course, sounds to me like the rude guy was trying to mess on the nice guy and you were in the middle of it all, julieannie. Not fair to you, but men can be such (competitive) animals, especially when it comes to work, and, yes, women.(Read John Eldredge book, 'Wild At Heart,' ladies, IF you want a good idea of WHAT a man is after in life, ultimately after. )

So, that is that.

--and, what is my opinion on this subject besides saying that the Lord leads me through situations in life, and, I especially pray heavy when in the presence of a lady I like ?

I think the guy should STICK around. Leaving is the WRONG thing to do ! Like Brandon7s said, fortitude. And, IF you are in a conversation with a girl, you do NOT give up, you FIGHT for her. You put your BACK into it, gentlemen, and, that, my brothers in Christ, not only shows a faith in God, but a smile on the face of the girl you are fighting for. Again, the Lord leads. But IF you go forth for her with Him, you will be led in the right way. Don't you go out the door just when God decides to see if you are REALLY ready for a girl.

I should go round up the video but one of my favorite guy FIGHT songs is by Tim McGraw: Don't Take The Girl

Because....IF you, gents, can't fight for a girl in just a casual acquaintance situation where something comes up like, gasp!, another guy coming along to COMPETE, then how in the world are you going to fight for her when you have her in your arms and something REALLY BIG comes up in your twos' life??

Well, that wasn't being too blunt I hope, and pray. And, ultimately, THIS is a fact, God has just the right person for you and you, in a strange situation IMHO will find a girl that is wanting to see you be POLITE and just leave the situation of rude guy coming along. But, I feel that is definitely the exception to the rule (stay and FIGHT! and FIGHT!! in a nice way, the Lord leads, God bless that fight in you, gents. Ladies, too, remember, to be supportive AS SOON as nice guy's fought for you just a little ) .

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

It's really not their fault Julianna. Many (not all!) of this generation of young men haven't been taught to be assertive like the men in the 1940s and 1950s were. They were indoctrinated by a modern liberal culture and public education system that constantly praises women for being strong and assertive but criticizes men when they are.

Factor in that more than a few were raised by single mothers without a father figure around. Just a series of boyfriends that treated them like a "pal."

These young men you speak of have never been taught how to stop the c***blocking of other guys and ask you for a date.

We've had some threads about good guys/bad guys, but this one is a little different (I hope).

I was talking with someone a few nights ago about something and wanted to know whether this happens to other ladies: You are talking with a really great guy who makes you think, laugh, etc., but then some studly dooright guy who can't put two words together comes up and interrupts the conversation, and the great smart nice guy just gives up, walks off and leaves me thinking NO! Don't LEAVE! Come back! *sigh*

I've been led to believe that nice christian ladies don't go after them, but if they are going to give up so easily, should we or not?

 

[Jullianna]

Thanks for your input. As I said, I talked with him today and there are no problems.

 

[Ugly]

You know what... these 'good guys' most likely don't feel to battle it out for a woman. I know i don't want to. Either a woman is interested in me or not. If i have to get into some kind of duel over a womans affections, then he can have her. So when someone comes along that seems to take you attention away, we figure fine, shes not interested.. and move on.
Personally, i think its totally nonsense for a woman to stand there and watch a guy she likes walk away because some silly cultural stereotype tells her shes not supposed to go to the guy and say 'hey don't go, i like you'. As if thats such a horrible thing. I wonder how many good relationships, or even marriages never happen because these silly notions that a woman shouldn't speak up about her feelings.

Now before someone twists what i said, i am not saying women need to go around all the time being the aggressor... i'm saying that women should feel fine with speaking up if need be, or if it could help. not lose out because its not 'right' according to... who? to speak up.

 

[Sooner28]

It's really not their fault Julianna. Many (not all!) of this generation of young men haven't been taught to be assertive like the men in the 1940s and 1950s were. They were indoctrinated by a modern liberal culture and public education system that constantly praises women for being strong and assertive but criticizes men when they are.

Factor in that more than a few were raised by single mothers without a father figure around. Just a series of boyfriends that treated them like a "pal."

These young men you speak of have never been taught how to stop the c***blocking of other guys and ask you for a date.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Sooner28]

We've had some threads about good guys/bad guys, but this one is a little different (I hope).

I was talking with someone a few nights ago about something and wanted to know whether this happens to other ladies: You are talking with a really great guy who makes you think, laugh, etc., but then some studly dooright guy who can't put two words together comes up and interrupts the conversation, and the great smart nice guy just gives up, walks off and leaves me thinking NO! Don't LEAVE! Come back! *sigh*

I've been led to believe that nice christian ladies don't go after them, but if they are going to give up so easily, should we or not?

Complicated situation but it is really rude to interrupt someone who is already engaged in a conversation, unless you already know them previously and are just giving a quick hi. Whether I left would depend on the woman's body language. If she signaled that she would rather talk to the other guy there would be no point in staying. If not then I would stick around until the other guy left. But you already talked to him about it anyway .

 

[Lecrae]

You know what... these 'good guys' most likely don't feel to battle it out for a woman. I know i don't want to. Either a woman is interested in me or not. If i have to get into some kind of duel over a womans affections, then he can have her. So when someone comes along that seems to take you attention away, we figure fine, shes not interested.. and move on.
Personally, i think its totally nonsense for a woman to stand there and watch a guy she likes walk away because some silly cultural stereotype tells her shes not supposed to go to the guy and say 'hey don't go, i like you'. As if thats such a horrible thing. I wonder how many good relationships, or even marriages never happen because these silly notions that a woman shouldn't speak up about her feelings.

Now before someone twists what i said, i am not saying women need to go around all the time being the aggressor... i'm saying that women should feel fine with speaking up if need be, or if it could help. not lose out because its not 'right' according to... who? to speak up.

WELL said. I agree with everything you said.

 

[Johnoble]

I get the feeling that the good guys aren't desperately looking for a mate as the rest. Maybe because their relationship with God isn't as deteriorated that they need to be looking for an identify or happiness in other ladies. And if they get rejected, they usually don't take from a fatalistic perspective as other guys do. This is what happens when you have a strong relationship with God.

 

[andrew12]

this topic is very interesting i like a lot. hhmm..i think all depends on how the girl reacts when the bad boy comes, who does she pay more attention,to the bad guy or the good guy?? if i were with a girl talking to her and then i know a bad guy comes and she starts talking to him more and ignores me, i wouldnt waste my time and just leave.

but i think when a good guy gives up so easly not having a good reasons, i think God needs heal something in that man.

 

[Jullianna]

I think Ugly outlined the problem pretty well. Whether we like it or not (and many times I don’t haha), there are lines and expectations. I know where society says the lines are. I know where God says the lines are. They don’t always line up… In the end, each of us has to decide where our own lines are drawn. I know where mine are, but that doesn’t mean I’m interested in judging someone who may draw them elsewhere.

Most of my friends are men and my co-workers have always been men for the most part. The ones I would have considered to be “my type” out of the billions (okay..that might be a BIT of a stretch, but it’s close ) who have cried on my shoulder during stakeouts and long hours on patrol have told me that they don’t like it when a woman “chases” them or they feel she is being too aggressive. They say that it’s flattering initially, but annoying and controlling later on. The guys who did like it seemed to be those with insecurity issues and/or guys that had infidelity issues (which often boiled down to insecurity issues as well).

When something like that happens, you realize you need to do SOMETHING, but what the “something” might be was the part that wasn’t clear, especially when there were so many other questions rolling around in my brain at the moment:

What just happened here?
Did I say/do something wrong?
These guys clearly know one another. Am I being set up?
Did he send studley some sort of signal to come over here and interrupt?
Is this a test (and if I find out it IS, I’m going to be reeeeeeeally ticked off)?
It’s rude of Studley to interrupt, but it’s also kinda rude for Mr Nice Guy to just walk off like that too….
Is Mr Nice Guy a quitter? If so, that won’t work for me…

Mr. Nice Guy had taken me to dinner a day or so before (even brought daisies) and HE was the one who initiated the conversation. We were have a great talk. I was not paying attention to anyone or anything else. We were joking, etc., so I knew I was giving him positive feedback and surely my own body language reading skills hadn’t tanked that badly… he was interested… So, I was at a loss…

In the end, I think the way it all went down was exactly the way I would be most comfortable with in the event it happened again. I simply excused myself, went to the restroom and did not continue the conversation with Studley. I gave myself some time to think about it, let the dust settle and at the first signal from him, I took the opportunity to ask him what happened in a polite, rational way, and he was straightforward about it.

Still….as a result, I have a nagging question in my mind as to whether Mr Nice Guy is the sort that will bolt at the first bump in the road. I’m all for letting him know I’m interested, but I’m not going to be the aggressor/leader in any relationship. That just won’t work for me. I need a guy who is strong enough to stand his ground and tell me “no”. I’m not getting the impression that he’s that guy, but I am glad that we were able to resolve the situation and won’t have to be uncomfortable around one another because our paths cross a lot.

I do appreciate the feedback. Thanks!

 

[Henry_YZ]

In my own personal experience I give a little and then I give a little more but, its what I get from her body language that tells me if I should stay. If I walk away, its not because I'm a coward, its because I feel like I'm not getting anywhere. Reciprocation is really important to me. If have come to claim your conversation and your attention, I do so with the expectation that you will claim mine.

I think the same way you do Liamson. I think you nailed it with the reciprocation part.

If you want a guy to stay around, then let him know. You can't expect people to read minds.

 

[Jullianna]

Okay. Liamson and Henry, we want you both to stick around haha Sorry...couldn't resist

 

[Henry_YZ]

Okay. Liamson and Henry, we want you both to stick around haha Sorry...couldn't resist

I will make use of reciprocation and say that I want you to stick around too Julianna

 

[allforfun]

Most of my friends are men and my co-workers have always been men for the most part. The ones I would have considered to be “my type” out of the billions (okay..that might be a BIT of a stretch, but it’s close ) who have cried on my shoulder during stakeouts and long hours on patrol have told me that they don’t like it when a woman “chases” them or they feel she is being too aggressive. They say that it’s flattering initially, but annoying and controlling later on. The guys who did like it seemed to be those with insecurity issues and/or guys that had infidelity issues (which often boiled down to insecurity issues as well).
]

I was going to leave this alone, but I changed my mind. There is a HUGE pendulum between letting a guy know you are interested in him and chasing him. To ignore that space is seeing things pretty black and white. I agree, chasing guys is a dead end road. But letting them know you are interested? Doesn't make us the aggressor, doesn't mean the relationship has been put in our hands. Why this is so hard to see? I don't know, but I hope other people don't see it as this black and white, or I will have to give up on humanity as a whole entirely.

 

[Jullianna]

I clearly agree that there's a difference between expressing interest and "chasing", since I expressed interest in my own way. As I explained in the first paragraph, my concern was where the line was between the two. It was merely something I wanted to give thought to rather than blindly jumping into a very wierd, awkward situation and perhaps losing a friend in the end.

 

[Jullianna]

Since you have decided to re-enter the conversation, I, too, have something to say now that you know the whole story. It would appear to me that a “stupid, weak” woman would not pause to take a step back and learn the whole story before deciding upon the wisest course of action; but would jump to conclusions with both feet and possible say judgmental things that can be forgiven, but not undone, and my friendship with him could have been irreparably damaged. As it is, my friendship with him remains intact. A side benefit is that an issue that is a huge red flag to me about entering into a relationship with him has been exposed. Perhaps this is why the scriptures say:

James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath