Modesty, Modesty... Modesty!

[Nautilus]

I really think Tintin needs to cover up his beard. Personally, his rather deliciously attractive beard has been a major stumbling block in my walk with God and has caused me to think lustfully of such facial hair. MODESTY IS THE KEY. I'm so sick of seeing that beard uncovered. It makes me angry knowing a man of God is walking about, revealing his beard in inappropriate ways. In fact, I'm pointing my finger at my computer screen right now and shaking it about in an angry fashion.

MEN, COVER UP YOUR BEARDS. WE DON'T NEED TO SEE IT.

Sorry my facial hairf is the one point I wont back down on. If it makes women stumble well I understand. Its a glorious beard.

 

[Tintin]

Does this mean we bearded men have to cover our manliness with a beard covering, as women have to cover their heads when in the presence of God?

 

[Calmador]

I went to a Christian college and down the road was the beach. Needless to say, girls would always wear short clothing before heading off to it and even walk back to campus in their bikinis. I agree it's a little upsetting to see. We're supposed to not let our brothers and sisters stray. Something lime that can easily cause one to stumble.

The stumbling thing is a good point but the reason it bothers me most is because it shows a woman to lack character. It makes me think that she just doesn't care or feels ashamed. Also, how am I suppose to trust this woman to raise my girls/daughters, if I have any, to dress appropriately???

 

[Calmador]

While I do agree that as Christians we should dress modestly, we shouldn't look down on or condemn anyone that feels differently. One of my dear friends (bless her heart) dresses in shorts that barely cover her rear end and a tight, sleeveless shirt. I talk to her about modesty and try to help her make more reasonable, God-honoring standards, but that is ultimately HER decision. It is HER walk with The Lord and she will be accountable for making others stumble. As Bible-believing Christians, we should be kind and minister to those women who dress immodestly.

But to answer your question, yes. It is disheartening when I see women (especially Christians) who dress immodestly. But that's just my opinion, and I do not judge others.

Your over-complicating things. This isn't about HER being able to make decisions. Its about the bad decisions some women make. Please try to lighten this up for sin. Immodesty is wrong.

 

[Calmador]

calmador,

well, i know of a few places where you'll find lots of modesty, and many, many burqas. seriously, though...

if there are women that you know who dress that way and have a good relationship with them, maybe you should share your thoughts in a loving way. have you considered the thought that they simply don't know any better? that they are living what they think is what is expected of them, or the standard for which they measure themselves against?

i wasn't raised with values of modesty, but rather, the opposite. i was taught that it was "stupid to cover up what God gave me". i was that a woman's value is first and foremost, what can be seen.

i would encourage you to think about the fact that girls who dress that way are usually doing so because they've been taught that it is either acceptable, or even ideal. they're trying to measure up to what the world says women should be--to be seen of value by the primary currency our world respects. and once you've been doing that for a bit, you really don't even think about it any more.

when i see women who are walking in walmart with their chest jacked up to their chin and wearing tiny shorts, i say a prayer for them. i actually hurt for them, because i have a notion of what it feels like to be in their shoes, and believe that this is their path to acceptance and value.

so many women are so needy for attention and validation they are seeking it in what is probably the most natural way for them to get it. and the world applauds that. the world not only teaches it, but it has so pervasively made female beauty the measuring stick of women's value, that in this day and age, you have to almost have a rebellious spirit (or a very strong faith) to reject it that path.

if you want to know the truth, it takes courage and a lot of self-respect for women not to play that card in this world--especially for young women who are more subject to peer pressure and the very visually-driven social media-crazy world we live in. it's SO much easier to conform to the worlds' standards, especially if you've experienced that kind of validation before.

as a christian, when i grew in spiritual maturity, i radically changed how i dressed because i know it pleases God to respect ourselves, our bodies and to honor him with our words and actions, show loving support to our brothers, as well as preserve our testimony. today, i cringe when i think about how i used to dress --but that feels like a lifetime ago. but just like you, we are all on a path to becoming more christ-like.

before you get angry next time, please think about the soul of that woman. if she's a christian, she's still learning about spiritual maturity and how to separate from the world and it's standards. i would even challenge you to pray for that woman, because she needs to be viewed through the lens of mercy, grace and acceptance, just like i did, and just like you do.

and if that woman isn't a christian, i hope that you can see beyond her bikini, and see her as a truly lost soul. because if we were all just as lost as she is, the very last thing on our minds would be modesty, and it would be the least of our problems.

Thank for saying all that. It helps brings things in perspective. However, I don't think it justifies it or makes it okay. Regardless of anything, immodesty is wrong.

 

[ChandlerFan]

The stumbling thing is a good point but the reason it bothers me most is because it shows a woman to lack character. It makes me think that she just doesn't care or feels ashamed. Also, how am I suppose to trust this woman to raise my girls/daughters, if I have any, to dress appropriately???

I understand where you're coming from with your original post and everything, but I would say that as men, our focus needs to be on addressing the problems on our side of things related to this issue. To be first to speak to the women implies, whether intentionally or not, that we're doing everything right and that the women need to shape up when in reality that's not the case. So for us as men, let's focus on how we can better keep our minds, hearts, and eyes in check. That's something that I fail at way more often than I should, and I need to be better as I think we all need to be. You're not wrong that there are women out there, Christian women even, who don't dress in a way that honors themselves or their brothers, but that doesn't mean we are incapable of still acting and thinking in a way that is honoring to them, and that's where our focus needs to be. And then I would simply encourage the women to have loving conversations where they need to be had when they see a sister not dressed in an honorable way. That way there is a lot less cross-gender finger-pointing and both sides are pursuing righteousness.

I would also caution against immediately judging all of a woman's character based on her dress because that judgment probably won't be entirely accurate. You know, don't judge a book by its cover, or lack thereof

 

[Calmador]

You know, just to share my thought right after reading your post is that you might have some issues that you need to deal with.

Too strong of words you are using, especially getting so angry???
I don't think one could and should get angry at women, even if they are wearing trashy outfits.
What about prostitutes walking in the dimly lighted street corner? Do you get angry at them?
What about near-naked girls in porn movies? Do you get angry at them?

Whether they wear trashy outfit or modest outfit, first and foremost, they are God's beloved daughters and you and I should consider that fact solemnly.

Really, it's more of a concern that you get so angry - there's usually an underlying reason why you get so angry for certain things and you should look into that; I am speaking from my personal experience.

God bless.

I suppose I just wanted rant a bit. And what's your deal? Your suppose to get angry at sin. Your suppose to gt angry when someone lies, steals, rapes, murderers. Anger is the correct response towards sin. You clearly don't understand that anger can be justified. You can get angry for the right reasons.

Your seeing more than you think. I'm just angry at immodesty and my selection of girls, even in the church, dress trashy.

 

[Calmador]

I can't decide whether to comment....or back away slowly...

You shouldn't back away slowly, you should probably run away screaming in fear!

 

[Calmador]

You mean something like this?

View attachment 86411

I believe those are super old bathing clothes and I'd REALLY REALLY REALLY like a woman who would wear these. It shows a lot more character than a bikini.

 

[Fenner]

You mean something like this?

View attachment 86411

Yes, I wear my bloomers.

 

[ChandlerFan]

I suppose I just wanted rant a bit. And what's your deal? Your suppose to get angry at sin. Your suppose to gt angry when someone lies, steals, rapes, murderers. Anger is the correct response towards sin. You clearly don't understand that anger can be justified. You can get angry for the right reasons.

Your seeing more than you think. I'm just angry at immodesty and my selection of girls, even in the church, dress trashy.

Anger is the correct response towards sin...

...if you never sin yourself.

You can try to keep that as a rule of practice--getting angry at every instance of sin you see (or maybe just the sins that really bug you)--but then you would have to be okay with people responding harshly to you every time you sin.

I think grace is a much better and more effective response to sin than anger as far as we as humans go. (The only exception here could be matters of injustice.)

 

[Calmador]

If you notice someone, say at the beach, with little clothing on, I don't think that's a sin. But when you act on the temptation to take another, closer look - that's lusting. I'm certainly not perfect, but I've been pretty good at averting my eyes in those sorts of situations. I guess it helps that I'm fairly shy in large public groups where I don't know people. By the way, you can totally appreciate the beauty/attractiveness of a person without lusting after them. It may be difficult at first, when the temptation to lust comes, but that just means you'll need to train your eyes to keep to themselves.

Its crystal clear that women should dress modestly. Its not about guys being tempted although that is another good point... stumbling another brother. The main point is that women have a moral duty to dress modestly. For me... it shows a woman has respect and dignity. Its an outward expression (like just about anything) that shows her following God's word.

 

[Fenner]

I hope I didn't come across as thinking we must protect the men folk from the lusting thoughts type attitude. I think like others said, we need to control ourselves too. I want to protect my child that's why I watch what she wears and myself to. Not saying that if you're 3 year old wears a bikini she's destined for trouble. There are a lot of perverts out there and I just want to make sure she's safe. Plus like Raine said I want her to understand it's not all about looks, something along those lines.

 

[Calmador]

I used to be a wearer of such clothes. Got in fights with my mom who did not like me leaving the house dressed in barely anything. Girls seek approval and admiration from males. I find this funny because then we complain that we only get the guys who only want us for our bodies and yet that is what we are advertising.

Now, my style has changed. To the horror of many, I am very much into granny sweaters. I DO NOT wear leggings just by themselves. I cannot stand girls who do because those are not pants! They are meant to be worn underneath skirts and such since some are practically see-through.

If I am a princess, (God's daughter), I picture myself walking down halls with my head held high, while I carry myself with poise and elegance. Trashy clothes that only exploits and leads guys astray since guys are visual, does not go with the picture I paint in my head when being the King's daughter.

It is difficult to not follow with the culture and its latest trends such as high-waisted short shorts and bikinis that could pass as dental floss. I understand why girls wear them, which is why I try my hardest to get them to realize and see their value and that they do not need to flaunt their body so. (unless its for their husband at home) They will not attract the right guy that way. Only scavengers.
Remember, most of these girls did not grow up with a daddy who would have instilled upon them that they are a Princess

Marry me?

You see, I really like that, love it even. Now that's something I'd like in the person I want to marry someday. That attribute is long-term, marriage, relationship material.

Your absolutely right, that kind of clothing will attract men that have immoral reasons... lust and those guys will look at women as objects. Its a lose lose for everyone when a woman attracts a man with appearances only.

 

[tourist]

If I am a princess, (God's daughter), I picture myself walking down halls with my head held high, while I carry myself with poise and elegance. Trashy clothes that only exploits and leads guys astray since guys are visual, does not go with the picture I paint in my head when being the King's daughter.

You are painting guys with broad brushstrokes by saying that guys are visual. True men are also spiritual and they find that same quality in a woman desirable. Clothes on a woman may be the cover on the book that attracts the guys but it is the words inside the book that men find alluring.

 

[Calmador]

Thats literally my favorite scene in the entire movie. Captain: Dr. Banner, you should get angry. Hulk: Thats my secret captain...Im always angry.

I just like how it ties into the end of the edward norton movie where he learns to control the transformation.

anyways back to the topic...yeah everytime someone complains about modesty all i hear is 'Im too weak to control my own eyes and mind, please cover yourselves so I dont have to work at fixing my faults.'

Nautilus ...................... It isn't much about me being tempted. I never mentioned being tempted. I have moral outrage against a woman dressing immodestly. It shows her in a cheap trashy perspective.

Its kind of like this... if you meet a guy who lies a lot and you know about it. Your morally outraged at the liar for doing an evil. The liar didn't do anything to you but you still look at the liar in some contempt.

Nautilus, you not in the same context as me. But, since you mentioned it... the stumbling a brother is another issue that comes as a by product of women dressing immodestly. And its a good and valid point to make. Its not just about women following God's word but to also be concious about your brothers and sisters next to you.

 

[tourist]

Nautilus ...................... It isn't much about me being tempted. I never mentioned being tempted. I have moral outrage against a woman dressing immodestly. It shows her in a cheap trashy perspective.

Its kind of like this... if you meet a guy who lies a lot and you know about it. Your morally outraged at the liar for doing an evil. The liar didn't do anything to you but you still look at the liar in some contempt.

Nautilus, you not in the same context as me. But, since you mentioned it... the stumbling a brother is another issue that comes as a by product of women dressing immodestly. And its a good and valid point to make. Its not just about women following God's word but to also be concious about your brothers and sisters next to you.

I find these sentiments of yours to be cloying in nature. For myself, there are more important matters to be morally outraged about then the type of clothing that woman wear. You may form a perspective on what you consider to be trashy women but this opinion is only valid in your own eyes. One man's trash is another man's treasure. That is my perspective based on my humble opinion.

 

[Tintin]

Calmador, I'm all for modesty, I'm all for both men and women being more responsible, I'm all for righteous anger at sin. That's not my problem with this thread. Your general attitude towards women stinks and pointing the finger, like you're without sin, is wrong. Frankly, this CC topic was tired before King David was cool.

 

[Calmador]

Word. That's pretty much my thoughts on the subject. Also, there's kind of a million bajillion more important things to think about. Modesty and lusting aren't the problem, they're merely a symptom. Bring it to the Lord and ask Him to change your heart. He'll tell you what's up. Don't blame a woman's choice of apparel for where your heart and mind reside. Otherwise, in this crazy, sex-driven society of ours, you're pretty much screwed.

Your thoughts are off topic then.

I just responded to Nautilus. Just like Nautilus, you jumped to conclusions which is sort of understandable I guess since maybe thats one of the main reasons people post about modesty.

My point is just character. If I notice a woman dressed immodestly then I think she's showing herself to be lacking in character. That's sad.

Its like if you notice someone who lies a lot. The liar isn't doing me any harm but you still look at the liar in sin and you may be morally angry at him/her for the liar's sin.

Also, you don't want to marry a liar do you? That'd probably be the worst decision you'd make in your life. In a similar way, I think I wouldn't want to marry a girl who dresses immodestly. I'd like a girl who respects me enough to not show her body off to the public. I'd like a girl who'd have the moral sensitivity to see immodesty as shameful and NOT something to teach my daughters. So, it also sucks that girls that dress this way make up a large portion of my selection of women to date.

 

[Calmador]

I should also note that I have a daughter and I so don't condone hooker wear, but*I*get frustrated hearing so much negativity towards women on this matter and so much pressure on us to, essentially, protect men's hearts and minds and rarely does anyone talk about how it IS possible to grow and mature to a place where a woman's body won't be a stumbling block and that that is not our responsibility, but the man's. Living in other countries where women walk around topless but heaven forbid you show your knees! kinda makes me wonder, if a man who has difficulty keeping his heart and mind on point with a girl in tight clothes were to go on a missions trip to a country where women walk around topless, how effective would he be for God's kingdom? He would HAVE to change his heart and mind or he'd spend the entire time beating himself up for lust. That's insane!
I say, for women to ask the Holy Spirit with a sincere heart, what He wants and cares about, then go from there. Don't let anyone's wardrobe choice get in the way of what God is doing in and through you.

Your buying into a false "system"

There's a womans responsibility to do what's right and a man's responsibility. And sometimes they affect each other. I think that's how it really is.

In my op I'm upset with the lack of character of individual women. I wasn't even thinking about how they stumble men. That's a different issue.