Modesty, Modesty... Modesty!

[Wandering_Here]

Hmm. I get the feeling that you're taking this particular sin personally. You like a girl, see that she dresses in a way that is not appropriate and you're angry with her for that? So she's not the girl for you, accept it and move on. You're not going to change women by ranting at them.

How are you being an example of modesty? Are you walking the walk, wearing a shirt and long shorts to those Californian beaches?

 

[seoulsearch]

Your seeing more than you think. I'm just angry at immodesty and my selection of girls, even in the church, dress trashy.

Perhaps one strategy that might help is to change your "selection of girls".

Something I find interesting about this topic is that it seems when people complain about modesty, one of the things they are saying is, "All the hot (women or men) I'm interested in dress immodestly!!!" Then they get upset at the person who is engaging in the immodest behavior, which is certainly better than condoning it, but what the underlying thought seems to really be is, "All the hot ones dress like they're easy. WHY OH WHY can't I find a hot girl or guy who covers everything up so I can feel better about being attracted to him/her???"

I could be wrong. Perhaps the complaints lodged here are also about all the "non-hot" people wearing bikinis and immodest clothing as well. But from what I've seen, there are two kinds of complaints about tiny clothes. The first complaint is, as I said, that all the attractive people dress that way and it's more of a lament about not finding a really attractive person who behaves in a more "Christian" manner, because, what the person making the statement is REALLY wanting... is to find an extremely hot opposite gender counterpart to be their significant other. The second complaint will be about people dressing immodestly who, maybe don't have the fittest bodies, and so there is ridicule for that under the guise of saying that they too are dressing immodestly.

Immodest dress is something to get upset about with the right reasons, yes. But I also think it's important to look at one's own heart and motivation as well.

If you find the girls you're attracted too are always dressing immodestly, why not look for the girls who aren't dressing that way and try striking up a conversation with one of them? You know... the girl at the beach who's in shorts and a t-shirt reading... or maybe at the library... (GASP! I know that sounds horrifying but hey, that's where you'll find me.) If you're upset with the pool of women who dress in a way that upsets you, try associating with the women who don't dress that way. You are talking to an audience of women right here on CC who will often fit that bill. A few female coworkers of mine, for years, tried to convince me to buy bikinis and skimpy clothes, saying, "You have the body for it, you need to show it off," but that's just not my style. I am, by and by, a jeans and t-shirt girl and always will be.

Predictably, however... when the suggestion comes up to change who you are looking at or are attracted to... the answer comes back that the women who don't dress that way... aren't the "hot" ones... or at least... aren't "hot enough"... which brings us to other matters of the heart.

 

[ArtsieSteph]

I know how you feel about modesty Calmador. At my church we have an issue of girls wearing strapless dresses, dresses that are a little too high, shirts that show bras slightly at times, girls wearing bikinis at trips, ect. Pastor has talked in the past about modesty, but I feel like in this new generation of youth he may have to go over it again.

When girls wear leggings instead of pants it does look very immodest, and you can hardly find a stupid one piece swimsuit. It's not only a temptation to guys, but it unintentionally makes other women feel inadequate.

It's totally possible to look classy and modest. I personally think it looks prettier.

 

[Calmador]

Also you realize this is just your personal opinion. Like I have no problems with bikinis or leggings. they don't bother me or distract me. Ive seen them both for as long as I can remember.

I don't think its as subjective as you think. Bikinis reveal a lot of a woman's body, your almost naked. (Adam and Eve felt Ashamed when they were naked)

Maybe you have a lot of self-control.

 

[tourist]

I don't think its as subjective as you think. Bikinis reveal a lot of a woman's body, your almost naked. (Adam and Eve felt Ashamed when they were naked)

Maybe you have a lot of self-control.

Adam and Eve were not ashamed of their nakedness. The were ashamed because their sin of disobedience was exposed.

 

[Calmador]

Calmador, are you getting angry because you must cross these girls off your "marriage list"? There seems to be some undercurrent here. If you are feeling anger toward a sinner, there could be a problem there, like Chandlerfan said.

No, but that's by product. It happens often.

How about we keep it simple ... Immodesty is wrong.

 

[ArtsieSteph]

And fortunately, it's correctable

 

[JustAnotherUser]

Its kind of like this... if you meet a guy who lies a lot and you know about it. Your morally outraged at the liar for doing an evil. The liar didn't do anything to you but you still look at the liar in some contempt.

But you wouldn't know the guy's a liar until you get to know him. It's looking past the appearance for you to determine this. And believe me, many guys who lie can be great deceivers since they want you to think that they're the perfect, nice guy and take long enough for you to suck into that idea about them. Some even go to great extents and a woman will believe them enough and it'd be too late to simply walk away once they find out. I'd wonder which would hurt more because to you all that is needed is to take one look at a woman before you decide whether if she's right for you or not.

 

[Calmador]

Hmm. I get the feeling that you're taking this particular sin personally. You like a girl, see that she dresses in a way that is not appropriate and you're angry with her for that? So she's not the girl for you, accept it and move on. You're not going to change women by ranting at them.

How are you being an example of modesty? Are you walking the walk, wearing a shirt and long shorts to those Californian beaches?

I suppose that's wrong of me. You'd be right.

Actually... the only change that can happen socially IS by "ranting" or better yet talking about it. haha

I actually thought about and like the idea of wearing a shirt at the beach just in-case. I don't go to the beach often but I wouldn't be against wearing a shirt for the sake of women.

All that being said, immodesty is still on the table and it should be looked down upon and "thrown away."

 

[seoulsearch]

How about we keep it simple ... Immodesty is wrong.

Immodesty is wrong, yes, and becoming angry about it in a righteous manner is also not wrong. But God also calls us to be effective agents of change, not just people who rant and rave and point fingers at the ones committing the sins, because that in itself can also be just as wrong as what you're ranting about.

It's good that this topic is important to you, Calmador. When you have your prayer time with God, do you tell Him, "Lord, I'm really tired of seeing women, especially ones in the church, dress like prostitutes..." Do you tell God everything you're telling us here? And when you do, what falls on your heart? Are there people you need to maybe speak to or pray for?

Immodesty is a passionate subject for you. The things we feel strongly about are often a clue as to what God wants us to change. What are you passionately doing to make a positive impact and change regarding immodesty?

P.S. Wearing a shirt at the beach is a great idea. I personally believe all men should, especially if they themselves have problems with the immodesty of others. It doesn't matter if the world says it's ok for a man to have his shirt off--both genders need to actively practice modesty, despite what our culture says is ok.

 

[ArtsieSteph]

I meant immodesty is correctable. For some reason it sounded like I was criticizing, sorry about that.

 

[Calmador]

Perhaps one strategy that might help is to change your "selection of girls".

Something I find interesting about this topic is that it seems when people complain about modesty, one of the things they are saying is, "All the hot (women or men) I'm interested in dress immodestly!!!" Then they get upset at the person who is engaging in the immodest behavior, which is certainly better than condoning it, but what the underlying thought seems to really be is, "All the hot ones dress like they're easy. WHY OH WHY can't I find a hot girl or guy who covers everything up so I can feel better about being attracted to him/her???"

I could be wrong. Perhaps the complaints lodged here are also about all the "non-hot" people wearing bikinis and immodest clothing as well. But from what I've seen, there are two kinds of complaints about tiny clothes. The first complaint is, as I said, that all the attractive people dress that way and it's more of a lament about not finding a really attractive person who behaves in a more "Christian" manner, because, what the person making the statement is REALLY wanting... is to find an extremely hot opposite gender counterpart to be their significant other. The second complaint will be about people dressing immodestly who, maybe don't have the fittest bodies, and so there is ridicule for that under the guise of saying that they too are dressing immodestly.

Immodest dress is something to get upset about with the right reasons, yes. But I also think it's important to look at one's own heart and motivation as well.

If you find the girls you're attracted too are always dressing immodestly, why not look for the girls who aren't dressing that way and try striking up a conversation with one of them? You know... the girl at the beach who's in shorts and a t-shirt reading... or maybe at the library... (GASP! I know that sounds horrifying but hey, that's where you'll find me.) If you're upset with the pool of women who dress in a way that upsets you, try associating with the women who don't dress that way. You are talking to an audience of women right here on CC who will often fit that bill. A few female coworkers of mine, for years, tried to convince me to buy bikinis and skimpy clothes, saying, "You have the body for it, you need to show it off," but that's just not my style. I am, by and by, a jeans and t-shirt girl and always will be.

Predictably, however... when the suggestion comes up to change who you are looking at or are attracted to... the answer comes back that the women who don't dress that way... aren't the "hot" ones... or at least... aren't "hot enough"... which brings us to other matters of the heart.

1st Paragraph was funny. lol

I guess it could be like you said, a lot of people may just be disappointed that unattractive Christian might be dressed immodestly.

Regardless, of anything, its still wrong for a woman individually to dress immodestly. (nothing to do with other people) In this perspective, everything you said, doesn't apply.

Good tips though. I should look for women in libraries then. lol

 

[Nautilus]

I don't think its as subjective as you think. Bikinis reveal a lot of a woman's body, your almost naked. (Adam and Eve felt Ashamed when they were naked)

Maybe you have a lot of self-control.

When you grow up near a beach and a lake you see bikinis constantly. There is nothing special to it anymore. Itsd something Ive seen a thousand times. And it doesnt take a lot of self control not to lust.

 

[seoulsearch]

One other thing I've noticed when men complain about immodesty--and this may or may not apply--but another reason for their complaint is that they have an interest in a particularly attractive woman and they are angered by her rejection or disinterest in them, and so they accuse her of, as you've alluded to, "dressing like a whore." Reactions like this are quite common.

What's really going on is that they're mad that this girl hasn't returned their interest and they are displacing their anger or, they start to think, "She's getting so much attention from other guys... If she would just ACT A BIT MORE GODLY and cover up, fewer men would notice her and I'd actually have a chance."

Getting upset about immodesty isn't wrong, but the motivations, reasoning, and reactions for it must also be in the right place.

I also wanted to point out that we live in a culture rampant with sexual abuse. Many women dress in certain ways because they are taught from a young age that their bodies are their only worth, and when you're brought up with that mindset, you might not know any better. People will also react to such situations in different ways--some may dress in blankets and shun other people entirely, others may choose the "sexiest" clothing possible because they believe it's the only way they can get attention or approval.

While I certainly agree with a call for modesty, I think we also have to approach others with grace and compassion because we don't know what they might have been through that's causing them to dress in a particular manner. I am NOT saying, of course, that every person who dresses immodestly has been abused... but in my experience, you will often be very surprised... shocked... and sad... to hear the truth behind why a person is doing what they're doing.

 

[seoulsearch]

1st Paragraph was funny. lol

I guess it could be like you said, a lot of people may just be disappointed that unattractive Christian might be dressed immodestly.

Regardless, of anything, its still wrong for a woman individually to dress immodestly. (nothing to do with other people) In this perspective, everything you said, doesn't apply.

Good tips though. I should look for women in libraries then. lol

Yes, Calmador, immodesty is wrong. Just wondering... do you have anything else to say about it?

And what is your strategy for working against it in a Godly manner?

 

[Calmador]

I know how you feel about modesty Calmador. At my church we have an issue of girls wearing strapless dresses, dresses that are a little too high, shirts that show bras slightly at times, girls wearing bikinis at trips, ect. Pastor has talked in the past about modesty, but I feel like in this new generation of youth he may have to go over it again.

When girls wear leggings instead of pants it does look very immodest, and you can hardly find a stupid one piece swimsuit. It's not only a temptation to guys, but it unintentionally makes other women feel inadequate.

It's totally possible to look classy and modest. I personally think it looks prettier.

ITS WAY WAY CLASSIER AND PRETTIER.



The last time I saw a girl wear a dress. It was at a bus. She was a highschool girl who had a dress with flowers on it. I thought was very classy and pretty. There was a pure-ness to it and she was beautiful because of it. She sat right next to me too and an old lady next to her. The old lady instantly took a tip of her dress that fell on her and she started to tell her how beautiful her dress was. I took that as an opportunity to also tell her what I thought as-well. She was way too young for me but if I was a high school guy.. I'd totally go for a girl like that. Easily. Only a guy with a lack of common sense wouldn't appreciate a woman with modest taste in clothing.

 

[Calmador]

Yes, Calmador, immodesty is wrong. Just wondering... do you have anything else to say about it?

And what is your strategy for working against it in a Godly manner?

Someone here pointed out that some girls are "brain-washed" into thinking its okay for women to dress that way. That gave me some perspective. I remember back in high school, I heard it often said and implied that its okay for guys to mess around with girls... use em up for sex and dump them. That this was what men do and its masculine. I can relate to women being "brain-washed."

My strategy at the moment is just speaking out against it.

 

[ArtsieSteph]

Someone here pointed out that some girls are "brain-washed" into thinking its okay for women to dress that way. That gave me some perspective. I remember back in high school, I heard it often said and implied that its okay for guys to mess around with girls... use em up for sex and dump them. That this was what men do and its masculine. I can relate to women being "brain-washed."

My strategy at the moment is just speaking out against it.

I wonder if the best way to fight against it is, once we Christian men and women become parents, to teach our children to dress modestly. And more importantly teach they WHY they should dress modestly.

 

[seoulsearch]

Someone here pointed out that some girls are "brain-washed" into thinking its okay for women to dress that way. That gave me some perspective. I remember back in high school, I heard it often said and implied that its okay for guys to mess around with girls... use em up for sex and dump them. That this was what men do and its masculine. I can relate to women being "brain-washed."

My strategy at the moment is just speaking out against it.

I wonder if the best way to fight against it is, once we Christian men and women become parents, to teach our children to dress modestly. And more importantly teach they WHY they should dress modestly.

The world we live in is truly crazy and I feel a lot of empathy for parents trying to raise Godly kids.

Recently I encountered a situation: Boy barely in his teens is graphically sexting girls in his class (as all the other boys are doing.) Parents catch him, dole out appropriate punishment, and make him apologize to the girls. Girls write back, "What are you apologizing for?" We live in a culture that teaches even preteen girls that sexually abusive comments are "compliments" and "flattering."

Conversation with a guy just out of high school at work, about his experience at school: "Yeah, I was just there for the basketball and the b******." He had no idea what he was saying was offensive to me and I said to him, "Could you please say, 'girls' instead of that word?" But we have songs on the radio daily that call women derogatory names and praise their physical assets as their only worth.

I believe we must be very careful in how we address others who are doing things we don't approve of. This will be too graphic for some, but imagine a young girl (or boy... it happens to both genders at almost an equal rate these days) is being sexually abused by her own father, uncle, brother, step-relative... etc... from childhood on. Like anyone, she is desperate for her father's (or male) approval, but the only way she gets that attention is by being used as a sexual object. No love, no unconditional acceptance, just "You are a plaything for me to use as I like because you belong to me."

Is that person going to have some issues when they get older, including with how they dress? Some women dress that way because they have been taught, since they could understand, that "sexiness" is the only way to get attention from a man. And if all you've known is the wrong attention, how can you possibly be able to distinguish something genuine or real, and how to go about achieving it?

Just some things to think about when encountering "immodest" women. God may be calling you to have compassion on them and pray for them.

 

[Rachel20]

ITS WAY WAY CLASSIER AND PRETTIER.



The last time I saw a girl wear a dress. It was at a bus. She was a highschool girl who had a dress with flowers on it. I thought was very classy and pretty. There was a pure-ness to it and she was beautiful because of it. She sat right next to me too and an old lady next to her. The old lady instantly took a tip of her dress that fell on her and she started to tell her how beautiful her dress was. I took that as an opportunity to also tell her what I thought as-well. She was way too young for me but if I was a high school guy.. I'd totally go for a girl like that. Easily. Only a guy with a lack of common sense wouldn't appreciate a woman with modest taste in clothing.

It erks me that there are a lot of women with a lack of character... I wasn't even thinking about women being a stumbling block. Your jumping to conclusions.

I believe those are super old bathing clothes and I'd REALLY REALLY REALLY like a woman who would wear these. It shows a lot more character than a bikini.

Ok, listen up Mister.


Firstly, before we all go praising God for your righteous and holy anger, let's just point out, you judge a woman's character by the way she dresses?


If I remember correctly, God looks at the heart and not the appearance.

But wait, you just want classy and pretty women right?

It's interesting how Jesus hung out with some really trashy men and women, so much so that even the Pharisees were disgusted. There were some really trashy women, like Mary Magdalene, who woke up early in the morning to go and cry for the Lord at his tomb.

Some character she must have had.

Oh not to forget Ruth! She was a Moabite woman, and Moab was a country born out of an incestuous relationship. Such trash.

I also recall, Rahab , a prostitute who showed compassion to the Israelite spies. What a trashy woman.