Girlfriend and girlfriend..

[FSUBoy966]

Repentence is turning away from sin. It doesn't matter whether a person is born gay, straight, or an eight-legged serial killler.

What if God came to you this very moment that you are reading this post, and commanded you to stone your brother to death (think OT)?

You have to realize... most people who "see God" nowadays are a little far off from a "prophet." They're mostly just crazy. And if I saw something that claimed to be God and told me stone my brother, I'd tell him to get away from me in the name of God, b/c that wouldn't be the Lord, that would be the Devil or one of his demons. Jesus died for our sins, and even if homosexuality was a sin, Jesus would not want someone stoned to death before they are able to find him. That's why he died, so others wouldn't have to.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I've already talked about why the translations of Leviticus aren't substantial for this conversation, I won't do it again.

All you do is blurt out, "BAD TRANSLATION BAD TRANSLATION". I ask for information, you provide a couple google results, and I respond to the google results and knock down the claims. You really should either learn more, or stop the "BAD TRANSLATION IF I DISAGREE" non-sense.

The word "sodomite" (or any similar translation) didn't exist in the ancient Hebrew language

Neither was the word Homosexual, the word Homosexual is a relatively new word as well. Languages develop over-time.

that was translated incorrectly LONG after it was written.

Please substantiate this claim or rescind it.

I also said that it's not 100% genetic. It's a mix of genetic, psychological and nurture.

Which gene?

There are people who grow up in households that are conversation Christian that would BEAT the child if they were gay, and they are still gay.

I'm going to assume based on previous posts that this is another "conservative christian = lolsers". To which I'm going to ask for a defining of Conservative, (theology/politics/etc). As well as examples.

That isn't nurture clearly, so explain that.

Romans 7:18 would be something to check on, and then there's this.

The Prevalence of Sexual Abuse in the Childhoods of Homosexuals
The self-serving explanation for homosexual distress, however, is undermined by what we now know about the terrible effects of childhood trauma on the emotional well-being of adults. Many studies demonstrate a sadly disproportionate extent of sexual abuse in the childhoods of homosexual men, suggesting at the least that both homosexual unhappiness and homosexuality itself derive from common causes, and that unhappiness is therefore an inherent accompaniment of homosexuality:

From May 1989 through April 1990, 1,001 adult homosexual and bisexual men attending sexually transmitted disease clinics were interviewed regarding potentially abusive sexual contacts during childhood and adolescence. Thirty-seven percent of participants reported they had been encouraged or forced to have sexual contact before age 19 with an older or more powerful partner; 94 percent occurred with men. Median age of the participant at first contact was 10; median age difference between partners was 11 years. Fifty-one percent involved use of force; 33 percent involved anal sex. Black and Hispanic men were more likely than white men to report such sexual contact. Using developmentally based criteria to define sexual abuse, 93 percent of participants reporting sexual contact with an older or more powerful partner were classified as sexually abused. Our data suggest the risk of sexual abuse may be high among some male youth, and increased attention should be devoted to prevention as well as early identification and treatment.{17}​

The same is true for pedophiles:

The association between perpetration of sexual abuse and the offender's own victimization as a child has been well documented in the literature. Various researchers have examined this relationship by assessing the exclusiveness of the sexual abuser's behavior, the gender of his victims and the gender of his own childhood abuser.... Subjects were 135 pedophiles ... who admitted to their offenses. A total of 42 percent of pedophiles ... reported being sexually victimized in their own childhoods .... [and] appear to choose their age-specific victims in accordance with the age of their own experience of sexual victimization. Although the cause of child molestation remains undetermined, these results support social-learning and modeling theories.{18}​

Is There a "Gay Gene"? <--- click

Twins are physically identical, but not at all mentally, even in their brain structures, functions, likes, dislikes, etc. Saying your twin study is a reason why gays aren't "natural" is illegitimate.

I have a twin brother, and we are not physically indentical. We were two eggs.

Why isn't it legitmate? Care to explain to us?

Homosexual Twin Studies

Two American activists recently published studies showing that if one of a pair of identical twins is homosexual, the other member of the pair will be, too, in just under 50% of the cases. On this basis, they claim that "homosexuality is genetic."

But two other genetic researchers--one heads one of the largest genetics departments in the country, the other is at Harvard--comment:

While the authors interpreted their findings as evidence for a genetic basis for homosexuality, we think that the data in fact provide strong evidence for the influence of the environment.{2}​

The author of the lead article on genes and behavior in a special issue of Science speaks of the renewed scientific recognition of the importance of environment. He notes the growing understanding that:

... the interaction of genes and environment is much more complicated than the simple "violence genes" and intelligence genes" touted in the popular press.The same data that show the effects of genes, also point to the enormous influence of nongenetic factors.{3}​

More Modest Claims to the Scientific Community

Researchers' public statements to the press are often grand and far-reaching. But when answering the scientific community, they speak much more cautiously.

"Gay gene" researcher Dean Hamer was asked by Scientific American if homosexuality was rooted solely in biology. He replied:

"Absolutely not. From twin studies, we already know that half or more of the variability in sexual orientation is not inherited. Our studies try to pinpoint the genetic factors...not negate the psychosocial factors."{4}​

But in qualifying their findings, researchers often use language that will surely evade general understanding making statements that will continue to be avoided by the popular press, such as:

...the question of the appropriate significance level to apply to a nonMendelian trait such as sexual orientation is problematic.{5}​

Sounds too complex to bother translating? This is actually a very important statement. In layman's terms, this means:

It is not possible to know what the findings mean--if anything--since sexual orientation cannot possibly be inherited in the direct way eyecolor is.
Thus, to their fellow scientists, the researchers have been honestly acknowledging the limitations of their research. However, the media doesn't understand that message. Columnist Ann Landers, for example, tells her readers that "homosexuals are born, not made." The media offers partial truths because the scientific realityis simply too unexciting to make the evening news; too complex for mass consumption; and furthermore, not fully and accurately understood by reporters.
Is There a "Gay Gene"? <--- click

 

[jimmydiggs]

You have to realize... most people who "see God" nowadays are a little far off from a "prophet." They're mostly just crazy. And if I saw something that claimed to be God and told me stone my brother, I'd tell him to get away from me in the name of God, b/c that wouldn't be the Lord, that would be the Devil or one of his demons. Jesus died for our sins, and even if homosexuality was a sin, Jesus would not want someone stoned to death before they are able to find him. That's why he died, so others wouldn't have to.

Nice. I'll make sure to close up some loop-holes for you this time.

Hypothetically speaking, Christ pulls you up to heaven. You, God, and Christ (without a doubt) are having a discussion about your brother. God/Christ command you to do it, and give you the reasons.

Who do you chose? God, or your brother?

 

[jimmydiggs]

i thought you say god doesnt follow the old testiment so why would he say that

Hypothetical situation. Although, given that God authorized it in the OT, not sure I could debate it if he re-authorized.

 

[xJoe]

If you see sarcasm in my response whatsoever, you're reading WAY too much into that. There isn't one ounce of sarcasm, that was all truth.
And I am myself. No matter what. I'm not gay and I'm never gonna be gay. But not b/c it's "a sin." B/c I was born straight. Just like my brother was born gay. And I support him and love him no matter what. I know in my heart that God doesn't care either way. Some people just spend too much time worrying who someone is sleeping with to actually fix REAL problems in the world (poverty, starving children, genocide, war.) But they continue to verbally assault people who only want to love the person they fell in love with. How do you NOT see that it is heartless and evil to tell someone "oh you don't actually love her, you're a woman, you CAN'T love her." That's disgusting.

Whats disgusting is approving of Sin.

Ill answer some questions.
Being gay, lets say it is genetic. Does that mean its not a sin?
SIN IS GENETIC! We are all different and tempted differently. Some people are more prone to commit sins of anger as some people are more prone to commit sins of greed.
Some people are born tempted more towards sins of homosexuality and some against sins of a lying.
WE ARE BORN SINNERS.
Could God of allowed someone to be more tempted towards homosexuality? Yes. Is that a gay gene? No. Its a sin gene. We all have them.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Do you think Jesus Redeemed us to live lifes of Sin? Did Christ redeem people who struggle with homosexuality just so they'll go back? God forbid that nonsense.

Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Christ died so we would be FREE from bondage not to excuse it! Your brother struggles with homosexuality much like I struggle with gossip.
I was born a gossiper. Does that mean i should live in it?
Jesus Christ can take away your brothers homosexual tendency! I have heard storys of men who struggled and are now happily married to a woman and have kids. Jesus did it all.
Do you want Jesus to free your brother from Sin? Then don't excuse his Sin! Get him some Godly help and get him some people who will help him conquer it. By no means support it.

 

[xJoe]

Romans 1: 26-27
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Homosexuality is condemned in the old and new testament. do not even try to say God is ok with it. Sin is Sin. God loves sinners and hates sin. Don't change your views on homosexuality just because it suits your situation, do what God says brother.

 

[Saiorse]

----edited-----What kind of a loving god would---edited---- have his children go into eternal agony for the wonderful joy of loving someone? This is the sort of thinking that lead to the --edited-- Crusades and to the Salem Witch Hunts and the Spanish Inquisition. People have the right to love whomever they please. Someone who is trying to be a good Christian, in whatever sense of the failing religion you all choose to believe, should love and respect everyone equally. Unless you are also saying that people of other races are to be hated, of other religions as well, then you should let people do as they wish. If you believe in a God, than ask yourself this: if God wanted only heterosexual love, then why do people feel love towards the same sex at all, shouldn't that be wiped out of our biology that you believe, in such a hopelessly juvenile way, "God" "created" you in? Stop being brainwashed and open up to the real world, it's wonderful out here.

 

[FSUBoy966]

Whats disgusting is approving of Sin.

Ill answer some questions.
Being gay, lets say it is genetic. Does that mean its not a sin?
SIN IS GENETIC! We are all different and tempted differently. Some people are more prone to commit sins of anger as some people are more prone to commit sins of greed.
Some people are born tempted more towards sins of homosexuality and some against sins of a lying.
WE ARE BORN SINNERS.
Could God of allowed someone to be more tempted towards homosexuality? Yes. Is that a gay gene? No. Its a sin gene. We all have them.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Do you think Jesus Redeemed us to live lifes of Sin? Did Christ redeem people who struggle with homosexuality just so they'll go back? God forbid that nonsense.

Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Christ died so we would be FREE from bondage not to excuse it! Your brother struggles with homosexuality much like I struggle with gossip.
I was born a gossiper. Does that mean i should live in it?
Jesus Christ can take away your brothers homosexual tendency! I have heard storys of men who struggled and are now happily married to a woman and have kids. Jesus did it all.
Do you want Jesus to free your brother from Sin? Then don't excuse his Sin! Get him some Godly help and get him some people who will help him conquer it. By no means support it.

You can throw all the same 7 verses at me.. I still am not gonna change my mind... Try less.

 

[xJoe]

Then your in Gods hands not mine. I gave you Gods scripture and I gave you Gods truth along with how God helped people with this problem. The rest is on you.

 

[Stuey]

Romans 1: 26-27
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Homosexuality is condemned in the old and new testament. do not even try to say God is ok with it. Sin is Sin. God loves sinners and hates sin. Don't change your views on homosexuality just because it suits your situation, do what God says brother.

Well said... there are more New Testament Verses I think.

xJoe - You have not replied to my previous three posts, please re-read through them, and consider - is what you believe what god is saying? Or is it what you want to believe?

 

[The-Prodical-Son]

Hello m'dear
I'm not here to judge or anything but i've been in a sort of similar situation as you. Okay I'm wanting to go out with a girl (I'm a lad so it's slightly different) but i can't all because she's not a Christian. She's wanted me to ask her out 4 times now but I haven't because the Bible says you shouldn't be unequally yoked. You may really like this girl and might not want to say no but the very fact you are questioning it in your heart suggests to me that you know it's wrong.
Honour God in this m'dear and he'll honour you, maybe not immediately but in time God will

God Bless.. Do the right thing in God's eyes, not any one elses
xx

 

[juliet84]

----edited-----What kind of a loving god would---edited---- have his children go into eternal agony for the wonderful joy of loving someone? This is the sort of thinking that lead to the --edited-- Crusades and to the Salem Witch Hunts and the Spanish Inquisition. People have the right to love whomever they please. Someone who is trying to be a good Christian, in whatever sense of the failing religion you all choose to believe, should love and respect everyone equally. Unless you are also saying that people of other races are to be hated, of other religions as well, then you should let people do as they wish. If you believe in a God, than ask yourself this: if God wanted only heterosexual love, then why do people feel love towards the same sex at all, shouldn't that be wiped out of our biology that you believe, in such a hopelessly juvenile way, "God" "created" you in? Stop being brainwashed and open up to the real world, it's wonderful out here..

My dear,..Im going to throw that question you asked to yourself. If one finds that they are struggling with homosexual thoughts, they must be strong to avoid all temptations, and not transfer those thoughts into homosexual acts. Temptation must be dealt with according to what God has in mind for us; a heterosexual relationship. In 1 Corinthians 10: 13 tells us that, &#8220;No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.&#8221;

God provides a way in any forms of temptation, or impure thought! God is there for all those who are struggling with homosexual thoughts and a homosexual orientation. Those struggling with a homosexual orientation can definitely call themselves Christian, and be justified in their assertion. Further on that point; we can compare a homosexual mindset with the alcoholic person. One who is struggling with alcoholism may have thoughts about drinking. Does this make them any less justified in grace before the eyes of God? No! As long as the alcoholic is doing his/her best to keep their urges under control, they cannot be condemned. This is analogous with homosexual thoughts; as long as one keeps their thoughts under control, and continues to pursue God, as well as living a chased life, they are saved by the grace of God.

This is not about hating those who are homosexual. We are here to make known to people who lack knowledge about this act which clearly is a sin according to Scriptures. Jesus said in Luke 17:3, if thy brother sin, rebuke him...

All you do is blurt out, "BAD TRANSLATION BAD TRANSLATION". I ask for information, you provide a couple google results, and I respond to the google results and knock down the claims. You really should either learn more, or stop the "BAD TRANSLATION IF I DISAGREE" non-sense.

I agree.

I've already talked about why the translations of Leviticus aren't substantial for this conversation, I won't do it again.
The word "sodomite" (or any similar translation) didn't exist in the ancient Hebrew language, that was translated incorrectly LONG after it was written.

I also said that it's not 100% genetic. It's a mix of genetic, psychological and nurture. There are people who grow up in households that are conversation Christian that would BEAT the child if they were gay, and they are still gay. That isn't nurture clearly, so explain that. Twins are physically identical, but not at all mentally, even in their brain structures, functions, likes, dislikes, etc. Saying your twin study is a reason why gays aren't "natural" is illegitimate.

You are here giving out information which is not substantiated with any references, especially from the Scriptures. Probably you should learn more about this.

 

[P-2-BGeekyJess]

If you're into this girl and if she's into you, there should be nothing standing in the way of you two being together. If you didn't think God would punish you if you were to go out with her, would you go out with her? If the answer is yes then go be happy with this girl. There is NOTHING wrong with this situation whatsoever.
If you know you would be happy if you two got together, why are you even asking for advice. Live the way you want. Not by any other plan. Love comes in all forms and none of it should be discriminated.

Veg, there is indeed something wrong with it. Ya see, when God put us on this earth he planned on us having children.. Genesis Ch35:11 "And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins". Men cannot have children with men, and women cannot have children with women.. It's just not at all possible. Also, if God had thought about people "being gay" then why this- Genesis 2:18 "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a help meet for him" God made women(Eve) the help meet(partner) for Adam. Veg, he could have made a "Steve" if he thought it was right.

 

[wolfywolfs]

Hypothetical situation. Although, given that God authorized it in the OT, not sure I could debate it if he re-authorized.

what will your feelings be if he did re authorized i mean its not impossible god can do what he likes and hes done it once before there nothing to stop him from doing that

 

[jimmydiggs]

You can throw all the same 7 verses at me.. I still am not gonna change my mind... Try less.

I take it you don't believe the bible to be the inspired word of God?

So God can't change your mind?

Your stubbornness makes me try more.

 

[jimmydiggs]

what will your feelings be if he did re authorized i mean its not impossible god can do what he likes and hes done it once before there nothing to stop him from doing that

If God says so, I'd have to.

See Abraham and Isaac.

Why did God tell Abraham to sacrifice Isaac? <--- click

 

[FSUBoy966]

I take it you don't believe the bible to be the inspired word of God?

So God can't change your mind?

Your stubbornness makes me try more.

The Bible IS the INSPIRED word of God. That's the problem. Humans got their hands on it. Humans with our hatred, racism, prejudice, greed, self-serving opinions and ignorance. I don't trust anything 100% except that Jesus died for my sins and the God is "up there" somewhere and that the basic premise of the Bible is 100% true.

And judge me all you like, I honestly couldn't care less.

 

[jimmydiggs]

The Bible IS the INSPIRED word of God.

Good start.

That's the problem. Humans got their hands on it. Humans with our hatred, racism, prejudice, greed, self-serving opinions and ignorance.

How do you know you aren't falling to self-serving opinions and ignorance? I take it you are immune to this. Given that everyone else is at fault.

I don't trust anything 100% except that Jesus died for my sins and the God is "up there" somewhere and that the basic premise of the Bible is 100% true.

Wait, you just said it was inspired, but that you only believe the basics. What qualifies as the basics?

And judge me all you like, I honestly couldn't care less.

How am I judging you? Accusations should always be provided with evidence.

 

[xJoe]

Well said... there are more New Testament Verses I think.

xJoe - You have not replied to my previous three posts, please re-read through them, and consider - is what you believe what god is saying? Or is it what you want to believe?

I just read them. And it has nothing to do with what we believe. it has to do with what is written. I wish the Bible told me to avenge myself but it doesn't. No matter how much i deny or fight against it, its still there.
All sin can be overcome.

I have a few questions.

If a person is born gay, is it a sin?

If a person is born with a body that desires to sleep with every girl he meets, is it a sin?

We are all born with a sinful heart - yet we do have the choice as to whether to act on those urges. Through prayer god can change our hearts, change our desires, I understand that this issue is pretty close to your heart... yet Jesus does say that we must love him above our own family. I am not saying you should not love your brother - on the contrary you should show him all the love you can. However, the bible is clear on this issue... it is sinful, and like if any couple was engaging in premarital sex, as a christian, we have to view it as sin. Rather than simply accepting the world's view of these issues and going 'oh as long as they aren't harming anyone.'

Cheers,

Stuey

No. When i get mad i get tempted to react in anger. How i handle my temptation is what is considered sin or not. You might have gay homosexual tendencys, but if you try not to dwell and not act on them what sin are you committing? No sin.

And no. Thats flesh nature. I want to gaze at woman and I want sex. But i do neither. Jesus was tempted by Satan. Did that mean he sinned because he had the temptation?
We can only control what we dwell on and our actions. Feelings we can not control. Thats why Christ tells us to deny our self.

 

[xJoe]

The Bible IS the INSPIRED word of God. That's the problem. Humans got their hands on it. Humans with our hatred, racism, prejudice, greed, self-serving opinions and ignorance. I don't trust anything 100% except that Jesus died for my sins and the God is "up there" somewhere and that the basic premise of the Bible is 100% true.

And judge me all you like, I honestly couldn't care less.

You speak foolishly. DO YOU THINK God is not big enough to keep his word Accurate? DO YOU THINK God is not powerful enough to give us his inspired words? Or do you honestly think that Man Triumphed over God and corrupted his Word? If you think one part of the bible is false you might as well throw it all out. A corrupted book is trash.
Believe God and actually Believe in his power instead of limit him to say that man can change his word.