Gay Christian?

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Lad

Guest
Lad: I don't believe it's my place as a Christian to judge nonChristians. However, within the body of Christ, we have an obligation to each other in regards to accountability. That said, everything that comes out of my mouth should be kind:

Col. 4:6
New International Version (©1984)
Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

And Eph. 4:29
New International Version (©1984)
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

Also, there is a vast difference between someone who is "living in sin" and someone who is a sinner. I personally believe it's a matter of the heart, that even people who struggle with sin and fall to temptation can still be saved. We know that God's word says:

1Jhn 5:18
New International Version (©1984)
We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.

But I think a better understanding of the original Greek can be found in:

New Living Translation (©2007)
We know that God's children do not make a practice of sinning, for God's Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot touch them.

I think this link is REALLY good for a more in-depth look at this passage:

Blue Letter Bible - Commentaries - Chuck Smith - Chuck Smith Sermon Notes

Lad, I am so glad God delivered you from that life. It is a hard road for you, standing up both against the nonChristians who would say you never sinned (or that you betray everyone who is "born" a homosexual), and also against your fellow Christians who would be less than understanding. I really admire your courage and strength, to be that witness to God's healing power and bring understanding to people who have never known that a gay man can change his entire life through Jesus Christ.
I completely agree, it is our duty as brothers and sisters of our fellow christians to be a support and loving accountability system for them to fall back on when they sin, but as you said it should all be in love.

And thanks, all glory to God.
 
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TDWP22

Guest
Upfront (not that it matters), I am not gay.

That being said, I don't know how I feel about whether or not being gay and acting on it is a sin or not...but right now, I'm thinking that it's not. Again: I DON'T KNOW ECACTLY HOW I FEEL.

I know all of the verses that people use to point out that it is wrong and not how God created it.

BUT, I've also heard views on the other side of it. I also study a bit of ancient history in school and know that man-on-man action in the Bible wasn't what it is today. Then, it was talking about rape and that has never been ok. (I also don't have all the facts on this.)

I know Christians who are gay and are ok with God. They feel that it is not a sin (and I know they aren't justifying their sin by saying this--they've actually experienced God's comfort in who they are with this...meaning that they are gay).

So, I was wondering if anyone on here is gay and would like to share how they feel in their relationship with God on this.

Comments from straight people are welcome, too, of course.

I've just been incredibly curious and confused about this for a while.
Gays have always been there...it is mentioned in the Bible, example Sodom and Gomorrah..God says it is abomination to his eyes
 
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Brandon777

Guest
Gay Christians only exist if they are very misinformed.

Upfront (not that it matters), I am not gay.

That being said, I don't know how I feel about whether or not being gay and acting on it is a sin or not...but right now, I'm thinking that it's not. Again: I DON'T KNOW ECACTLY HOW I FEEL.
My intent is not to sound harsh, but in all matters to do with theological beliefs, it doesn't matter how you feel. It only matters what God says about the matter because what we feel as Christians should stem from what God would have us feel based on the world-view that He gave us based in His Spirit of Truth (John 16:13).

I know all of the verses that people use to point out that it is wrong and not how God created it.
Refer to statement above. Here are the verses that have nothing to do with rape and clearly outline the depravity of homosexuality along with some other sins.
Romans 1:24-27
24Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, that their bodies might be dishonored among them. 25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Timothy 1:7-11But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

BUT, I've also heard views on the other side of it. I also study a bit of ancient history in school and know that man-on-man action in the Bible wasn't what it is today. Then, it was talking about rape and that has never been ok. (I also don't have all the facts on this.)
That is called a lie. And Satan is the father of all lies. Although there are references to rape in the Bible there are also these verses that say that it is forbidden with no mention of rape involved. Here they are: Leviticus 18:22 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13
13'If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

I know Christians who are gay and are ok with God. They feel that it is not a sin (and I know they aren't justifying their sin by saying this--they've actually experienced God's comfort in who they are with this...meaning that they are gay).
Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is desperately sick: who can know it?" Meaning that their hearts deceive themselves into thinking something unholy is something holy. This is only fueled by the evil messages from the world telling them it's alright. They are comforting themselves through what the world says. How does anyone know if it's alright? Only through the Word of God. That's how societies and the world gets it's standards. Think about a tribe away from civilization. They act immoral and have no one to tell them what is right and wrong to do. They only have there built in conscious, which tends to be much weaker without the influence of the written Word of the Christian Holy Bible.

Also I would question if someone is really a Christian who goes around saying that. True repentance means turning from the old life to a new life of wholesome goodness with Christ. Not everyone who says they're a Christian actually follow Christ. Christian means Christ follower... as it should.
 
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Brandon777

Guest
Jesus Christ is the Light of the World

I believe homosexuality is a sin.
Why would your belief be any stronger than someone else’s unless it has some base to stand on? The book of Judges says that the people did what was right in their own eyes. That is instead of going by the Holy Book.
I know that the natural order is for us to be man and woman as one.
How? Again, the answer is the Good Book. The Word of God told you that. It stands as the authority over simply your opinion.
Just because you may feel that something is right doesn’t make it right. You’ve received your answer from scripture by many others yet you depend on the same man that is a natural born sinner to tell you what is right to them because of how you may feel about a subject. The only one that gives answers of right or righteousness is God.
Right on the money!!!

BUT IN GOD EYES ALL SIN IS EQUAL YOU PEOPLE!
Consider these verses. Proverbs 6:16-19 There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him, then it lists six and a seventh. So no, not all sins are equal. Logically speaking stealing to live is a lesser crime than stealing for revenge to kill someone.
WE ARE ALL LIVING IN SIN!
True. Here is Good Book support. Romans 6:23 “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.”
I dont see how they can truly beleive it isnt a sin but if they do truly beleive that then I think they arent going to hell.
This verse says nothing about what the sinner believes when he commits an irreversible sin against God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
It is comments on threads like these that always make me question now whether I am going to heaven or not. I thought that if you tried to follow jesus even TRIED then you were going to heaven :(
Read all of the book of Romans. That will answer your questions about your faith. If not, message me any questions you have. If you’re a true Christ follower than your life should have changed. If your life hasn’t changed, as in you’re doing good things, then you might need to grow or you might not be a Christian. Fear God; and be serious about this, because God has plans for you. Find out what they are with Him. Yes, He gives grace to the humble, yet He is also a God of justice that does not overlook justice. To accept Christ you must believe that He lived a sinless life, died and rose again on the third day, confess that you are in need of salvation from your filthy deeds AND turn from your wicked ways. We won’t be able to do that fully until God comes back for us, but if you are saved than your life should show that through the fruits of the Spirit. Here they are: Goodness, Love, Gentleness, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Meekness, Patience, Self-Control, Faithfulness, Kindness
 
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Brandon777

Guest
No, this is completely wrong. You don't get to say who is and who is not a Christian.

Definition of effeminate
–adjective | (of a man or boy) having traits, tastes, habits, etc., traditionally considered feminine, as softness or delicacy.

So are you saying that men who have soft or delicate traits cannot be Christians? See how ridiculous this is? People can be Christians regardless of whatever sins you believe they've committed. The only requirement to be a Christian is in Jesus, no one is disqualified. Please start showing the love and acceptance of Jesus instead of telling people they cannot be a Christian for whatever reason. :(
The word there in the Greek is malakos meaning: of uncertain affinity; soft. In other words gay. You are arguing against the logic of the Bible. That doesn't work because as Christians we derive our logic and reasoning from that book. Jesus does know and will discern who is and is not a Christian. He will tell us. And although we may not know the hearts of men, we do see what fruits they do or do not produce. The Bible tells us that we should have discernment over the people that claim to be apart of the brethren, but are really in the church for their own selfish motives. Having discernment in general is good as backed by the Bible.

No we don't get to say who comes into the Kingdom, but we can, for the most part tell if people are headed there by there words and actions. Not only can we, but we are expected to to protect the Church from intruders (Matthew 5:17).
 
Jun 16, 2011
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YES- BEING GAY IS A SIN! NO I AM NOT GAY! Why are gay people always trying to justify their sin! IT IS SIN. Not sayin you are,as you have said you arent: but homossexuality is an abomination before God and man alike-unless you are gay,of course! (or so they would have people believe).
When god created us it wasn't adam and steve-it was adam and eve!! also note that most gay people are also Catholic=think about this when the catholic priests are caught MOLESTING YOUNG BOYS! There is nothing to be unclear about,this is exactly right-homos will all be judged by God-and it won't go well for them. I'll get away from this now,or I will get vexed even more..
You are a very narrow minded bigoted individual I have to say, to compare Homosexuals to Peadophiles is a very misguided opinion you have you do know a lot of people who consider to be hetrosexuals do disgusting things to children I think you need to realise there is a clear difference between the two. I am no Gay myself but I don't see it as offensice or wrong it's the individuals life and they choose to live it the way they want just like some people choose the muslim faith or other people are Catholics and by the way not all Catholic people are Peadophiles either this is just a gross generalisation you have made and an ignorant one at that.
 
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Lad

Guest
all it comes down too is that the Bible is the Bible and it says that God hates homosexuality. Our lives are not ours to live once we accept yeshua as LORD and saviour and therefore we should be constantly striving to please Him and keep holy which we cant do while sinning. And actively pursuing and staying in homosexuality is a sin.
 
Jun 16, 2011
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Homosexuality is not the same as Peadophilia though is it and to band them in together is wrong and offensive.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
Homosexuality is not the same as Peadophilia though is it and to band them in together is wrong and offensive.
Same in the sense that both are sins, and evil rebellion against a holy God.

On atheism, what makes it wrong to "band" them together?
 
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Lad

Guest
Homosexuality is not the same as Peadophilia though is it and to band them in together is wrong and offensive.
No you are right, as a healed homosexual i was nothing like a pedophile. Though both are sins, and both go against God, they shouldnt be chucked into the same category.
 
Jun 16, 2011
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Because how is molesting children the same as an adult loving relationship? think with your head Jimmy even religious people can recognise this distinction, cmon man.
 
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Lad

Guest
i wouldnt call it an adult loving relationship if someone is a christian but i see your point.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
Because how is molesting children the same as an adult loving relationship? think with your head Jimmy even religious people can recognise this distinction, cmon man.

I don't believe I said they were the same Moral crimes.

This is what I said..
Diggs said:
Same in the sense that both are sins, and evil rebellion against a holy God.

However, many of the arguments I've heard for normalization of homosexuality and affirmation, can be used for just about anything else considered sexually taboo by a society.
 
Jun 16, 2011
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you also said "What makes it wrong to band them together?" and that's what I stated they are 2 different things if you are saying they are both sins why not saying adultry is just as bad?
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
you also said "What makes it wrong to band them together?"
Yes, because I wanted to know if you as an atheist have an Objectively Moral reason to object to doing so. Also, when you reject Objective morals, you also reject epistemic duties.



and that's what I stated they are 2 different things
What would be Objectively wrong about doing so? (Objective Ontologically, not scientifically)

if you are saying they are both sins why not saying adultry is just as bad?
Adultery is just as bad. In fact, I would say sodomy is a form of Adultery if we understand adultery as being a violation of the Marriage Covenent, which would also by implication make Fornication and Lust Adultery as well... In fact, Christ already said that Lust was adultery of the heart.

EDIT:
As far as not mentioning adultery, that is because so far the two threads you and I have been cooresponding in have been threads on homosexuality.
 
Jun 16, 2011
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It's not as bad, have you listened to yourself, Adultry and Peadophilia are the same to you? You don't make any logical sense honestly you don't. In your mind if you and your wife were separated and she decided to sleep with somebody else then that would be just as bad as some strange man molesting your dayghter/son? You live in a very strange and scary world you really do.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
Says who? You?

have you listened to yourself
Well, no. This is a text-based forum.

, Adultry and Peadophilia are the same to you? You don't make any logical sense honestly you don't.
This is where you equivocate. (this is a fallacy)
I stated that they were the same in that they are both sins. I then when on to say that they are both the same in that they are violations of the Marriage Covenant. I did not say the were the same crimes. Otherwise, I would not give them two different names.


In your mind if you and your wife were separated and she decided to sleep with somebody else then that would be just as bad as some strange man molesting your dayghter/son?
Bad analogy. If she slept with someone else, that would be a man who likely was a stranger to me, and in a way the actions would be similar to a molestation, except that she would be a willing participant.

The point I think you seek to make is based on your equivocation, as I pointed out above.

You live in a very strange and scary world you really do.
It's not as strange when I can account for the existance of Logical Truths, science, or for that matter Moral truths. It is scary in the manner that there's 7 billion fallable sinful humans.
 
Jun 16, 2011
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yep 7 billion sinful humans for sure. You are pointless to talk to I'm an open minded person and think even if I believe in something different to you it doesn't matter so much but you just add to the stereo type of religious preachers who can't accept other opinions and talk utter nonsense.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
yep 7 billion sinful humans for sure.[/qoute]
I'm glad we agree.

You are pointless to talk to I'm an open minded person
Don't lie to yourself. You've remained just as dedicated to your position as I have, even though I've presented all sorts of information and argumentation that would change most people's views.

and think even if I believe in something different to you it doesn't matter so much but you just add to the stereo type of religious preachers who can't accept other opinions and talk utter nonsense.
Why should I accept opinions?

How is it utter nonsense?

EDIT:Also, I would like for those reading this now or in the future to take note of the unanswered questions posed to psymon23. Given that inumerable amount of questons he never once responded to (including intellectuals such as WLC), we must assume based on the evidence from these two threads we've been cooresponding, that he has no refutations, and they stand as true. It appears that his lack of response is a concession on his part.
 
Jun 16, 2011
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Unanswered questions is the foundation of Christianity isn't it? do you really think I'm going to have any supporters on here. I admit i obviously don't know as much as yourself about the bible but you talk like a bigot that lives in the past it's the 21st century and these days atheists and agnostics are growing rapidly and I think one day it will surpass Christianity. What is your take on other faiths for example i.e Muslims?