Can Faithful Jews Who Worship YHWH, Know the Son of God - Even if They Don't Know It?

[PeteWaldo]

The Jewish people know the Father but not the Son.

I think it is sad and tragic to see a Christian assigning - even in a single sentence - who Jews do or do not know or what Jews do or do not believe, particularly in answer to a babe in Christ. I devoted the thread to this because it isn't a subject that should be flushed away with the typical blizzard of unrelated posts, as it would in the body of the thread of the post that it is in reply to.

How many mediators have there been between man and God?

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

What was Jesus suffering from, from the foundation of the world, if not the burden of sin of mankind?

Psalms 95:1 O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.

I would suggest that Old Testament Jews knew the Son and sang praises to Him (and continue to sing praised to Him), they just didn't know they knew the Son.

Some Jews may remain sovereignly blinded by God to this day:

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

That was penned decades after the cross.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
("until the full number of the Gentiles come in")

Unless someone believes that the full number of Gentiles has been brought to the Lord - even as millions of Muslims are coming to Christ in Africa alone - how can a Christian proclaim that the spirit of slumber has been lifted from the eyes and ears of those Jews whom God chose to cast a veil over?

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.

As you browse this forum there is no shortage of conspicuous examples of what seems to happen in folks hearts, who have gone down the road of proclaiming God's ways and judgments, including assigning beliefs and attributes to Jews as a monolithic group - whether they a reprobate Hollywood movie producer, or one who worships our God YHWH through our Old Testament scriptures and whose life revolves around their temple and faith-based community.

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

SPIRIT OF SLUMBER

“Hence I observe these things, first that the restauration of the Jewish nation so much spoken of by the old Prophets respects not the few Jews who were converted in the Apostles days, but the dispersed nation of the unbelieving Jews to be converted in the end when the fullness of the Gentiles shall enter, that is when the Gospel (upon the fall of Babylon) shall begin to be preached to all nations. Secondly that the prophecies of Isaiah described above by being here cited by the Apostle is limited to respect the time of the future conversion and restitution of the Jewish Nation, and thirdly that the humour which has long reigned among the Christians of boasting our selves against the Jews, and insulting over them for their not believing, is reprehended by the Apostle for high –mindedness and self-conceipt, and much more is our using them despightfully, Pharisaicall and impious”

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel.html

Prophesies indicate that God returned Jews to their land even in unbelief:

KJV Ezekiel 36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. 20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These [are] the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land. 21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

That God did it for the sake of His holy name is certainly enough of a reason for me as I view the stunning fulfillment of prophecy. With Jews developing that land over the last two centuries, from the total desolation visited upon it by 1200 years of Islam, to becoming one of the most productive and vibrant and technologically advanced economies in the world, with invention and innovation through which the whole world has benefited. The freedom of Israeli Jews, Christians, non-Muslim Arabs and Muslims, continues to be protected in those portions of Israel that remain under the protection of the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State. Unlike where Christians are being subjugated to Muslims in Gaza after Godless international anti-Zionist secular powers compelled the Israelis to abandon Gaza, and the protections Christians had formerly enjoyed there.

As far as I know there are no hyper preterists in this forum. As far as I know we are all expecting the resurrection of the dead and the return of Christ to earth for final judgment. Even return to the Holy Land.
Now Holy Spirit led Christians are commanded to love our neighbors and love our enemies and turn the other cheek and such through the Gospel. Not exactly the same for Jews walking in the Spirit of God.

1Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Now I already stated that the sake of God's holy name is enough of a reason for me to recognize the stunning reality of the return of Jews to their land, even as that tiny little strip of land has become the geopolitical focus of the whole world. But it makes me wonder if there may not be more than one reason YHWH restored His people to their land - even in unbelief.

Zechariah 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

ISRAEL IN BIBLE PROPHECY

What do formerly Christian lands in that area look like today?

View attachment 46566

View attachment 46569

A near unanimity of residents are compelled to DISbelieve the crucifixion of Christ, DENY the Son of God and REJECT His shed blood AS ARTICLES OF FAITH in the false prophet Muhammad. Prostrating themselves toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca five times a day, while praying in the vain repetitions of the heathen", in the names of the Arabian pagan deity "Allah" and His "messenger" Muhammad.

[video=youtube;ujUOZyrnewE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujUOZyrnewE[/video]

When a Muslim comes into relationship with Jesus Christ they are subject to the death penalty for "apostasy". Even in Canada by this guy's own mother:
Apostasy in Islam - Ministry Videos

Most everywhere we find murder, mayhem and misery perpetrated around the world today, we find the hand of the followers of the false prophet Muhammad, one of the most consummate - and conveniently self-admitted - terrorists in the history of mankind. His followers obediently doing as Muhammad did, and commanded his followers to do.
JIHAD

 

[PeteWaldo]

If admin could change the last word in the title from "It" to "Him" it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[PeteWaldo]

Scratch that. I titled it correctly. Thank you. Please feel free to delete these two replies if you so desire. Would have actually been a little better as: "Can Faithful Jews Who Worship YHWH, Know the Son of God - Even Though They Don't Know It?

 

[RedTent]

Finally, someone is posting the truth about the Jews. May I add that we are not better than they are because we understand that the Messiah they look to lived in our world in the flesh.

God created that race from Abraham to show us in the world about Him and wants us to listen. We are to listen to what happens when, as they often did, humans turn their backs on Him, too.

During the years that the organized church told everyone that only the few who worked within the church as priests could read scripture, it was the Jews who kept scripture before the world, the ones who read it.

Almost every christian says that you must not follow any of the ways that Jesus lived His life with us, for that is Judaism. They even refuse to learn from studying that lifestyle.

It is a great blessing and privilege that we can know the Messiah as God fulfilled His work in our world. We should be thankful we are given that spirit. But it isn't to be used against God's chosen people. It isn't to be used for a saying that God only meant a certain teaching for Jews. We are to learn from them.

 

[PeteWaldo]

Finally, someone is posting the truth about the Jews. May I add that we are not better than they are because we understand that the Messiah they look to lived in our world in the flesh.

God created that race from Abraham to show us in the world about Him and wants us to listen. We are to listen to what happens when, as they often did, humans turn their backs on Him, too.

During the years that the organized church told everyone that only the few who worked within the church as priests could read scripture, it was the Jews who kept scripture before the world, the ones who read it.

And look how those priests read and understood scripture through punitive supersessionism while wearing their hearts right out there on their sleeves:

Pope Clement VIII: “The Bible itself says that the Jews are an accursed people.”

Pope Innocent III: “The Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude because they crucified the Lord.” (To the Archbishops of Sens and Paris)

Pope Saint Pius V: “In order to make an end of all doubt concerning the colour of the cap and the sign of the women, we declare that the colour must be yellow.” (Romanus Pontifex)

Pope Benedict XIV: “It is fitting for Jews to serve Christians, but not for Christians to serve Jews. On the contrary, the Jews, as slaves rejected by that Saviour Whose death they wickedly contrived, should recognize themselves in fact and in creed the slaves of those whom the death of Christ has set free, even as it has rendered them bondmen.” (Quoting Pope Innocent III, “Etsi Judaeos”)

Pope Innocent III: “When Jews are admitted out of pity into familiar intercourse with Christians, they repay their hosts, according to the popular proverb, after the fashion of the rat hidden in the sack, or the snake in the bosom, or of the burning brand in one’s lap.”

Pope Gregory IX: “Ungrateful for favours and forgetful of benefits, the Jews return insult for kindness and impious contempt for goodness.” (Epistle to the Hierarchy of Germany)

Pope Stephen III: “With great sorrow and mortal anxiety, We have heard that the Jews have in a Christian land the same rights as Christians, that Christian men and women live under the same roof with these traitors and defile their souls day and night with blasphemies.” (Epistle to the Bishop of Norbonne)

Pope Innocent IV: “The wicked perfidy of the Jews - from whose hearts Our Saviour did not remove the veil because of their enormous crimes but caused them justly to continue in their blindness, commit acts of shame which engender astonishment in those who hear, and terror in those who discover it.” (The Wicked Perfidy of the Jews)

Pope Gregory IX: “We order all our brother bishops absolutely to suppress the blasphemy of Jews in your dioceses, churches, and communities, so that they do not dare raise their necks, bent under eternal slavery, to revile the Redeemer.”

Pope Saint Pius V: “Besides usury, through which Jews everywhere have sucked dry the property of impoverished Christians, they are accomplices of thieves and robbers.” (Hebraeorum Gens)

Pope Benedict XIV: “Furthermore, by means of their particular practice of commerce, they amass a great store of money and then by an exorbitant rate of interest utterly destroy the wealth and inheritance of Christians.” (A Quo Primum)

Pope Clement VIII: “All the world suffers from the usury of the Jews, their monopolies and deceit. They have brought many unfortunate people into a state of poverty, especially the farmers, working class people and the very poor. […] Their ethical and moral doctrines as well as their deeds rightly deserve to be exposed to criticism in whatever country they happen to live.”

Pope Innocent III: “The Lord made Cain a wanderer and a fugitive over the earth, but set a mark upon him, making his head to shake, lest anyone finding him should slay him. Thus the Jews, against whom the blood of Christ calls out, although they ought not to be wiped out, nevertheless, as wanderers they must remain upon the earth until their faces are filled with shame and they seek the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Epistle to the Count of Nevers)

Pope Saint Sylvester I at the First Ecumenical Council of Nicea: “Concerning the prohibition of usury and base gain by the clergy; and concerning the prohibition against conversing or eating with the Jews. No priest shall set money out at interest or take unfair profit or be friendly or sociable with Jews; nor should anyone take food or drink with the Jews; for if this was decreed by the holy apostles, it is incumbent upon the faithful to obey their command; and the synod shall excommunicate any one who does not comply with this order.”

Pope Eugene IV: “We decree and order that from now on, and for all time, Christians shall not eat or drink with the Jews, nor admit them to feasts, nor cohabit with them, nor bathe with them. […] They cannot live among Christians, but in a certain street, separated and segregated from Christians, and outside which they cannot under any pretext have houses.”

Pope Alexander III: “Our ways of life and those of the Jews are utterly different, and Jews will easily pervert the souls of simple folk to their superstition and unbelief if such folk are living in continual and intimate intercourse with them.” (Ad Haec)

Pope Martin V: “However, we received a short time ago through credible reports knowledge to our great alarm, that various Jews of both sexes in Cafas and other cities, lands and places overseas, which fall under the jurisdiction of Christians, are of obstinate mind and, in order to conceal swindling and wickedness, wear no special sign on their clothing, so that they are not recognisable as Jews. They are not ashamed to give themselves out as Christians before many Christians of both sexes of these cities, districts and places mentioned, who could not in fact identify them, and consequently commit shameful things and crimes.” (Sedes Apostolica)

Pope Eugene IV: “We decree and order that from now on, and for all time […] All and every single Jew, of whatever sex and age, must everywhere wear the distinctive dress and known marks by which they can be evidently distinguished from Christians.”

Pope Saint Pius V: “With full understanding and in exercising of the apostolic powers, we withdraw from the Jews and their rule (and recognize no right or claim) all properties, which the Jews have in their possession in this city Rome or other places of our domain of rule.” (*** Nos Super)

Pope Paul IV: “It is too absurd and pointless that the Jews, whom their own guilt condemns to slavery, under the pretence that Christian piety suffers and tolerates their coexistence, pay back [with wickedness] the mercy received from Christians.” (*** Nimis Absurdum)

Pope Leo VII: “Let the Gospel be preached unto them and, if they remain obstinate, let them be expelled.”

Pope Adrian I at the Second Ecumenical Council of Nicea: “Since certain, erring in the superstitions of the Hebrews, have thought to mock at Christ our God, and feigning to be converted to the religion of Christ do deny him, and in private and secretly keep the Sabbath and observe other Jewish customs, we decree that such persons be not received to communion, nor to prayers, nor into the Church; but let them be openly Hebrew according to their religion, and let them not bring their children to baptism, nor purchase or possess a slave.”

Pope Innocent IV: “We who long with all our hearts for the salvation of souls, grant you full authority by these present letters to banish the Jews, either in your own person or through the agency of others, especially since, as we have been informed, they do not abide by the regulations drawn up for them by this Holy See.” (To the King of France)

Pope Saint Martin I: “If anyone shall teach a slave, under pretext of piety, to despise his master and to run away from his service, and not to serve his own master with good-will and all honour, let him be anathema.”

Pope Benedict XIV: “It is fitting for Jews to serve Christians, but not for Christians to serve Jews. On the contrary, the Jews, as slaves rejected by that Saviour Whose death they wickedly contrived, should recognize themselves in fact and in creed the slaves of those whom the death of Christ has set free, even as it has rendered them bondmen.” (Quoting Pope Innocent III, “Etsi Judaeos”)

Pope Gregory IX: “They ought to know the yoke of perpetual enslavement because of their guilt. See to it that the perfidious Jews never in the future become insolent, but that they always suffer publicly the shame of their sin in servile fear.” (Epistle to the Hierarchy of Germany)

Pope Alexander III at the Third Lateran Ecumenical Council: “We declare that the evidence of Christians is to be accepted against Jews in every case, since Jews employ their own witnesses against Christians - and that those who prefer Jews to Christians in this matter are to lie under anathema, since Jews ought to be slaves to Christians.” (Canon 26)
The Popes Against The Jews

Pope Innocent III: “The Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude because they crucified the Lord.” (To the Archbishops of Sens and Paris)

Pope Innocent IV: “And that you [King Saint Louis IX] order both the aforesaid abusive books [The Talmud] condemned by the same doctors and generally all the books with their glosses which were examined and condemned by them to be burned by fire wherever they can be found throughout your entire kingdom, strictly forbidding that Jews henceforth have Christian nurses or servants, that the sons of a free woman may not serve the sons of a bondwoman, but as slaves condemned by the Lord, whose death they wickedly plotted, they at least outwardly recognize themselves as slaves of those whom the death of Christ made free and themselves slaves. So we may commend the zeal of your sincerity in the Lord with due praises.” (The Wicked Perfidy of the Jews)

Pope Saint Martin I: “If anyone shall teach a slave, under pretext of piety, to despise his master and to run away from his service, and not to serve his own master with good-will and all honour, let him be anathema.”

Pope Gregory IX: “They ought to know the yoke of perpetual enslavement because of their guilt. See to it that the perfidious Jews never in the future become insolent, but that they always suffer publicly the shame of their sin in servile fear.” (Epistle to the Hierarchy of Germany)

Pope Alexander III at the Third Lateran Ecumenical Council: “We declare that the evidence of Christians is to be accepted against Jews in every case, since Jews employ their own witnesses against Christians - and that those who prefer Jews to Christians in this matter are to lie under anathema, since Jews ought to be slaves to Christians.” (Canon 26)

Almost every christian says that you must not follow any of the ways that Jesus lived His life with us, for that is Judaism. They even refuse to learn from studying that lifestyle.

It is a great blessing and privilege that we can know the Messiah as God fulfilled His work in our world. We should be thankful we are given that spirit. But it isn't to be used against God's chosen people. It isn't to be used for a saying that God only meant a certain teaching for Jews. We are to learn from them.

Indeed with them.

Rom 11:17 And if someof the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

But there has not been any shortage of those that remain "wise in their own conceits".
SPIRIT OF SLUMBER

 

[wdeaton65]

In a word NOOOOOOOOOOOO1!!!!!!!!!!!!! What is it with you pete what dont you get JOHN 14;6 IS THIS NOT PLAIN ENOUGH FOR YOU. You dont even know what a jew is or what makes a jew. You think the talmud is inspired text. It is inspired all right from the enemy!!

 

[PeteWaldo]

In a word NOOOOOOOOOOOO1!!!!!!!!!!!!! What is it with you pete what dont you get JOHN 14;6 IS THIS NOT PLAIN ENOUGH FOR YOU.

Everything in the Gospel is made plain enough to me. However if God had blinded me to the Gospel, it couldn't hardly be.
SPIRIT OF SLUMBER

You dont even know what a jew is or what makes a jew. You think the talmud is inspired text. It is inspired all right from the enemy!!

Why reduce yourself to lying, when I repeatedly explained to you that even Jews, do not consider the Talmud to be inspired? NOBODY considers the Talmud to be inspired.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ng-demon-possessed-persons-4.html#post1004249
The faithful YHWH worshiping Jews that I am acquainted with, worship our God through our Old Testament scriptures. You assign the Talmud to faithful Jews even as you proclaim God's judgment on them. I sometimes wonder if such behavior might not be part of the manifestation of "that man of sin", let alone the synagogue of Satan.

 

[wdeaton65]

Why reduce yourself to lying, when I repeatedly explained to you that even Jews, do not consider the Talmud to be inspired? NOBODY considers the Talmud to be inspired.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ng-demon-possessed-persons-4.html#post1004249
The faithful YHWH worshiping Jews that I am acquainted with, worship our God through our Old Testament scriptures.

You are lieing pete jews do consider them to be inspired and above all never question a rabbi engrained from birth to death. JUST STOP pete you have no idea what a jew believes

 

[wdeaton65]

Hey pete what about washing hands and 6 clay pots do you have a clue as to what that is all about Because I know for a fact what that is all about more importantly Yeshua new what they were for how come you dont know!!!!!
Your this great deffender of us jews help us all out and teach us what this stuff is .

 

[RedTent]

In a word NOOOOOOOOOOOO1!!!!!!!!!!!!! What is it with you pete what dont you get JOHN 14;6 IS THIS NOT PLAIN ENOUGH FOR YOU. You dont even know what a jew is or what makes a jew. You think the talmud is inspired text. It is inspired all right from the enemy!!

And isn't the entire bible plain enough for you? All scripture is breathed by God, all scripture agrees. What scripture you quote is spiritual truth. So is every other scripture. It all must fit, or you are understanding something wrong.

Christ said not to follow the talmud, and Christ said also not to judge men. If you accuse you are to have witnesses and proof. Do you have proof that Redtent believes the talmud is the inspired word of God?

You have opened your heart and mind to Jesus as Savior and that is so wonderful, but you are closing it to much of what God is trying to tell you.

You are saying Yes to one part of scripture, but NOOOOO to other parts. You can't do that and be in God's Kingdom.

 

[PeteWaldo]

Hey pete what about washing hands and 6 clay pots do you have a clue as to what that is all about Because I know for a fact what that is all about more importantly Yeshua new what they were for how come you dont know!!!!!
Your this great deffender of us jews help us all out and teach us what this stuff is .

You choose to join those popes in punitive supersessionism while I don't. You choose to join David Duke and his ilk in mucking about in the Talmud while proclaiming God's judgments against faithful Jews.
I'll let Isaac Newton speak on my behalf:

“Hence I observe these things, first that the restauration of the Jewish nation so much spoken of by the old Prophets respects not the few Jews who were converted in the Apostles days, but the dispersed nation of the unbelieving Jews to be converted in the end when the fullness of the Gentiles shall enter, that is when the Gospel (upon the fall of Babylon) shall begin to be preached to all nations. Secondly that the prophecies of Isaiah described above by being here cited by the Apostle is limited to respect the time of the future conversion and restitution of the Jewish Nation, and thirdly that the humour which has long reigned among the Christians of boasting our selves against the Jews, and insulting over them for their not believing, is reprehended by the Apostle for high –mindedness and self-conceipt, and much more is our using them despightfully, Pharisaicall and impious”

There is perhaps no greater discriminator on earth today, both throughout the secular world as well as in the "church", as fruit of the trees of Zionism and anti-Zionism (I posted this on the other thread but would prefer your response on this more related thread):
The Return of Jews to Israel

 

[ANIOHEVTORAH]

Let me clarify some of this sillyness here. Orthodox jews DO treach the talmud as inspired commentary, as they treat the mishnah as the oral law from Moses being God given authority. Both are garbage and doctrine of hasatan. washing of hands is not biblical. It is common sense to do, but is not a commandment in Torah. I am a Torah observant jew who believes in the fullness of Yeshua and all that He is in the NT. So yes, faithful jews who worship YHVH can know the Son. For ONLY jews who actually worship YHVH know the Son. For those of Israel who keep talmud, mishnah, kabbalah etc. serve a false doctrine which YAH has nothing for. There worship is in vain as scripture is clear on.

 

[ANIOHEVTORAH]

Also, in Ez. 36 YHVH tells us He restores Israel not for their sake, but for His name sake.

 

[wdeaton65]

You choose to join those popes in punitive supersessionism while I don't. You choose to join David Duke and his ilk in mucking about in the Talmud while proclaiming God's judgments against faithful Jews.
I'll let Isaac Newton speak on my behalf:

“Hence I observe these things, first that the restauration of the Jewish nation so much spoken of by the old Prophets respects not the few Jews who were converted in the Apostles days, but the dispersed nation of the unbelieving Jews to be converted in the end when the fullness of the Gentiles shall enter, that is when the Gospel (upon the fall of Babylon) shall begin to be preached to all nations. Secondly that the prophecies of Isaiah described above by being here cited by the Apostle is limited to respect the time of the future conversion and restitution of the Jewish Nation, and thirdly that the humour which has long reigned among the Christians of boasting our selves against the Jews, and insulting over them for their not believing, is reprehended by the Apostle for high –mindedness and self-conceipt, and much more is our using them despightfully, Pharisaicall and impious”

There is perhaps no greater discriminator on earth today, both throughout the secular world as well as in the "church", as fruit of the trees of Zionism and anti-Zionism (I posted this on the other thread but would prefer your response on this more related thread):
The Return of Jews to Israel

See how it works newton was a kabalst that is a fact!!!!! So now we know who you trust.

 

[PeteWaldo]

And isn't the entire bible plain enough for you? All scripture is breathed by God, all scripture agrees. What scripture you quote is spiritual truth. So is every other scripture. It all must fit, or you are understanding something wrong.

Christ said not to follow the talmud, and Christ said also not to judge men. If you accuse you are to have witnesses and proof. Do you have proof that Redtent believes the talmud is the inspired word of God?

You have opened your heart and mind to Jesus as Savior and that is so wonderful, but you are closing it to much of what God is trying to tell you.

You are saying Yes to one part of scripture, but NOOOOO to other parts. You can't do that and be in God's Kingdom.

This is simply intended as food for thought. Makes me wonder about "that man of sin". Could pop-approaches to prophecy that divide the body of Christ have blinded the church to this subject by suggesting it was either fulfilled in the first century, or won't be fulfilled until some future someday, yet in the future? The following verse informs us that we can't know God's judgments, yet there are those that believe they are standing up for Jesus, while proclaiming His judgments against faithful YHWH worshiping Jews.

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Let's look at 2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

There has only been one temple of God ever since Jesus built it in three days.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

So shouldn't Christians be on the lookout for "that man of sin" to be within the body of Christ - the temple of God?

What is all that is called God that is worshiped?

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

If someone proclaims God's judgments on others, aren't they exalting themselves above the Word of God that informs us we can't know God's judgments? Could they be acting as God while sitting in the temple of God?
Let's look at Strong's for "shewing":

Strong's:
New Testament Greek Definition:
shewing
584 apodeiknumi {ap-od-ike'-noo-mee}
from 575 and 1166;; v
AV - approve 1, prove 1, set forth 1, show 1; 4
1) to point away from one's self, to point out, show forth, to
expose to view, exhibit
2) to declare, to show, to prove what kind of person anyone is,
to prove by arguments, demonstrate
MAN OF SIN

 

[wdeaton65]

And isn't the entire bible plain enough for you? All scripture is breathed by God, all scripture agrees. What scripture you quote is spiritual truth. So is every other scripture. It all must fit, or you are understanding something wrong.

Christ said not to follow the talmud, and Christ said also not to judge men. If you accuse you are to have witnesses and proof. Do you have proof that Redtent believes the talmud is the inspired word of God?

You have opened your heart and mind to Jesus as Savior and that is so wonderful, but you are closing it to much of what God is trying to tell you.

You are saying Yes to one part of scripture, but NOOOOO to other parts. You can't do that and be in God's Kingdom.

What are you talking about redtent what scriptures have I denied and show me your proof thanks

 

[RedTent]

What are you talking about redtent what scriptures have I denied and show me your proof thanks

I think that scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, uses the Jews to help explain God to us. You are taking the fact that this race has some misunderstandings mean that you only want to understand from the point of view that Judaism is all wrong. This means that your mind is as firmly against much of scripture as the Jews are against that their Messiah lived with us in the form of Jesus. So, it is the entire bible I am talking about.

All of what Jesus said was about growing on from Judaism. In Romans, chapters are devoted to this.

You and I need a couple of days in my study, the bible open between us with a very good concordance to use to find all scripture on a subject.

 

[PeteWaldo]

I moved this from the demon possession thread as this is a more appropriate thread:

Why dont you share with all of us what is zionism and show me that word in the Bible I will wait.
I will be waiting a long time wont I pete. Go ahead you know I read and write Biblical Hebrew there is no such word as ZIONISM END OF STORY!!!!!!!

Of course even you must recognize that doesn't even begin to "end" the "story". That a late 19th century term coined for the restoration of Jews to Israel doesn't exist in scripture, does not change the matter of fact historical reality of the restoration of Jews to Israel, as anticipated by Christians through prophecy, centuries before that restoration ever began to take place.
ZIONISM IN CHRISTIANITY

I can understand why you wish the "story" would end there, when we consider the fruit of the tree of those in the church who believe the restoration of Jews to Israel is of the Lord, and those who reject that the restoration of Jews to their land is of the Lord. The fruit of the trees of Zionists and anti-Zionists, whether secular or of faith:

Israeli residents break down as follows:

The majority of those in the following Israeli groups are pro-Zionism:

Israeli Christians
Israeli non-Muslim and secular Arabs
Israeli Messianic Jews
Israeli Torah Jews
Israeli secular Jews

The majority of those in the following Israeli group are anti-Zionism:

Israeli Muslims


Now let's take a look at how non-Israeli groups composed of folks who weren't born in Israel, and/or don't have to or want to live in Israel, break down.

Among non-Israeli groups that proclaim themselves to be Christian, the majority of those in the following groups are pro-Zionism:

Tens of millions of denominational and non-denominational Evangelical Christians, including a near unanimity of futurists, like Hal Lindsay and Tim LaHaye
The Christadelphian cult

Among non-Israeli groups that proclaim themselves to be Christian, the majority of those in the following groups are anti-Zionism:

Jeremiah Wright and his flock (even endorsing the Iran backed "March on Jerusalem")
Arnold Murray and his Serpent Seed cult
David Duke and the KKK
Ted Pike (who seems to have suffered the consequences) and his followers
The "Christian Identity" movement
The liberal left wing of the church some of which also ordain women and homosexuals (these are a little difficult to nail down because they are as reluctant to admit to anti-Zionism, as some folks in this forum were, to answer to only request I made in the last paragraph in the OP of this thread)
Perhaps those groups that discussed divestment of Israeli assets could give us a clue:
Disinvestment from Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Presbyterian Church (USA)
World Council of Churches
United Church of Christ
United Methodist Church
With the ECUSA suggesting "“a negotiated two-state solution” and “positive investment” rather than divestment from Israel." (in other words likely financing Islamic terrorism, since that is the so-called "Palestinian's" largest (and perhaps nearly only?) industry in which one can invest).


Among non-Israeli groups, that are not Christian, the majority of whose members are pro-Zionism:

These groups might be hard to categorize. For example I have chatted with at least one English atheist that understands what is going on, from having investigated Islam after Muslims took over his neighborhood, who does not want his heirs to be subjugated to prostrating themselves toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca and praying in the vain repetitions of the heathen five times a day.
We can perhaps suffice it to say that any group in favor of the continuation of freedom, liberty and right to self-determination and self-rule provided by the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State, to the benefit of Israeli Jews, Christians, non-Muslim Arabs and Muslims (where Muslims enjoy more freedom than they do in any Muslim controlled country on earth), would fit here.

Among non-Israeli groups, that are not Christian, the majority of whose members are anti-Zionism:

A near unanimity of Muslim antichrists around the world
Nazis
Louis Farrakan and the Nation of Islam
Communist Soviets
George Soros and his Center for American Progress
The U.N.
White supremacists
Skinheads
Anti-semites of all stripes
Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee
Some small Jewish cults
Israel or Palestine?

Why dont you answer some of the tough questions about Yeshua like what was the whole text about Mt.15 and Mt. 23 who is HE slamming and why. How about John 2;6-7 what is this all about why would they fill those 6 clay waterpots to the brim.
Dont tell me the jews dont believe that the talmud is inspired. These very scriptures proves that they did and still do believe the lies of the teachers of the oral laws or the talmud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wdeaton65]

I moved this from the demon possession thread as this is a more appropriate thread:



Of course even you must recognize that doesn't even begin to "end" the "story". That a late 19th century term coined for the restoration of Jews to Israel doesn't exist in scripture, does not change the matter of fact historical reality of the restoration of Jews to Israel, as anticipated by Christians through prophecy, centuries before that restoration ever began to take place.
ZIONISM IN CHRISTIANITY

I can understand why you wish the "story" would end there, when we consider the fruit of the tree of those in the church who believe the restoration of Jews to Israel is of the Lord, and those who reject that the restoration of Jews to their land is of the Lord. The fruit of the trees of Zionists and anti-Zionists, whether secular or of faith:

Israeli residents break down as follows:

The majority of those in the following Israeli groups are pro-Zionism:

Israeli Christians
Israeli non-Muslim and secular Arabs
Israeli Messianic Jews
Israeli Torah Jews
Israeli secular Jews

The majority of those in the following Israeli group are anti-Zionism:

Israeli Muslims


Now let's take a look at how non-Israeli groups composed of folks who weren't born in Israel, and/or don't have to or want to live in Israel, break down.

Among non-Israeli groups that proclaim themselves to be Christian, the majority of those in the following groups are pro-Zionism:

Tens of millions of denominational and non-denominational Evangelical Christians, including a near unanimity of futurists, like Hal Lindsay and Tim LaHaye
The Christadelphian cult

Among non-Israeli groups that proclaim themselves to be Christian, the majority of those in the following groups are anti-Zionism:

Jeremiah Wright and his flock (even endorsing the Iran backed "March on Jerusalem")
Arnold Murray and his Serpent Seed cult
David Duke and the KKK
Ted Pike (who seems to have suffered the consequences) and his followers
The "Christian Identity" movement
The liberal left wing of the church some of which also ordain women and homosexuals (these are a little difficult to nail down because they are as reluctant to admit to anti-Zionism, as some folks in this forum were, to answer to only request I made in the last paragraph in the OP of this thread)
Perhaps those groups that discussed divestment of Israeli assets could give us a clue:
Disinvestment from Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Presbyterian Church (USA)
World Council of Churches
United Church of Christ
United Methodist Church
With the ECUSA suggesting "“a negotiated two-state solution” and “positive investment” rather than divestment from Israel." (in other words likely financing Islamic terrorism, since that is the so-called "Palestinian's" largest (and perhaps nearly only?) industry in which one can invest).


Among non-Israeli groups, that are not Christian, the majority of whose members are pro-Zionism:

These groups might be hard to categorize. For example I have chatted with at least one English atheist that understands what is going on, from having investigated Islam after Muslims took over his neighborhood, who does not want his heirs to be subjugated to prostrating themselves toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca and praying in the vain repetitions of the heathen five times a day.
We can perhaps suffice it to say that any group in favor of the continuation of freedom, liberty and right to self-determination and self-rule provided by the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State, to the benefit of Israeli Jews, Christians, non-Muslim Arabs and Muslims (where Muslims enjoy more freedom than they do in any Muslim controlled country on earth), would fit here.

Among non-Israeli groups, that are not Christian, the majority of whose members are anti-Zionism:

A near unanimity of Muslim antichrists around the world
Nazis
Louis Farrakan and the Nation of Islam
Communist Soviets
George Soros and his Center for American Progress
The U.N.
White supremacists
Skinheads
Anti-semites of all stripes
Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee
Some small Jewish cults
Israel or Palestine?

This is why GOD says do not add or subtract from HIS WORD!!!! This is the beginning of you error no word as ZIONISM for a reason GOD didnt forget did HE if it cant be found through it out. This is to keep us safe from bad teachers.........

 

[PeteWaldo]

This is why GOD says do not add or subtract from HIS WORD!!!! This is the beginning of you error no word as ZIONISM for a reason GOD didnt forget did HE if it cant be found through it out. This is to keep us safe from bad teachers.........

I'm sure you would agree that the tiny little strip of land of Israel, growing from near total desolation at the beginning of the 19th century to becoming a geopolitical focus of the world today, is no accident.

So do you believe the return of Jews to Israel is of the Lord, or do you believe it is of Satan?