The Return of Jews to Israel

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PeteWaldo

Guest
#1
This subject keeps getting raised in other threads, but then buried, so I thought it would be constructive to dedicate a thread to it. Nobody can deny the physical matter of fact of Jews ruling Israel today. History reveals that 1200 years of Islamic rule had rendered Israel a denuded, desertified, depopulated, desolate, wasteland. Then 200 years ago Jews began to return to Israel, to develop what has become one of the most vibrant and technologically advanced economies in the world, while that tiny little strip of land became a global geopolitical focus.

It's constructive to begin this dialog by setting aside the terms "Palestine" and "Palestinian". The Philistines have been gone for thousands of years. From a Christian perspective there is really no such place as "Palestine" because the Gospel refers to that land as "Israel", and never as Palestine.

Mat 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life. 21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel.

As Walid Shoebat put it, “One day during the 1960’s I went to bed a Jordanian Muslim, and when I woke up the next morning, I was informed that I was now a Palestinian Muslim, and that I was no longer a Jordanian Muslim.”

The term "Palestine" was first coined by a 2nd century Roman ruler, in place of the name Israel, to insult the Jews after he had vanquished them. Thus what began as an insult to Jews, was perhaps used sporadically, and later popularized by the British and is today perpetuated by the secular politically correct media.

The tragic effect of the term - whether intended or not - is that it obscures the identities of the actors in the Israeli theater. This helps governments put forward the hopelessly naive and wishful idea that they are not at war against Islam, but rather at war against a word, or against a method - of terrorism. Yet even if this were possible that would still pit them against Islam, since the false Muhammad was one of the most consummate - as well as conveniently self-admitted - terrorists in history:

Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

While reports from the pop-media and many others, create the false impression that it is a conflict between Jews and non-Jews, that is easily dispelled:

Wikipedia article: "In contrast, a poll of 507 Arab-Israelis conducted by the Israeli Democracy Institute in 2007 found that 75 percent profess support for Israel's status as a Jewish and democratic state which guarantees equal rights for minorities. Israeli Arab support for a constitution in general was 88 percent.[31]"

Which makes perfect sense and would be difficult to argue. What non-Muslim Israeli would want Israel turned into just another Middle East sharia law ruled, black stone idol venerating, multiple wife and concubine beating, little girl circumcising (FGM), fathers-"honor killing"-daughters and husbands-wives, Christian and Jew beheading, despotic, totalitarian, imperialistic conquering Islamic slave state?

Thus the two sides in conflict are the same as they have been for 1400 years - at least from an Islamic perspective. The dar al-Salaam VS the dar al-Harb. The "house of peace" VS the "house of war". If you are a Muslim you are in the house of peace, but if you are a non-Muslim you are in the house of war, and while you may not be at war against Islam, Islam has been at war against you for 1400 years.

Bukhari, V1 B2 #24 Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle.....

The fact of the matter is there are 1.5 billion antichrists in the world today - that's 1/4 of mankind - that are commanded by the false prophet Muhammad to conquer all kingdoms, and subjugate all people, to DISbelieving the crucifixion of Christ, DENYING the Son of God, and REJECTING the blood He shed for us all, which are articles of their faith in Muhammad alone. The command of conquest and subjugation cannot be reasonably argued in the light of Islam's own books, 1400 years of Islamic history.
JIHAD

Nor can it be denied in the light of the present day reality, of over 20,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11. The vast majority of which, of course, have nothing whatsoever to do with Jews. And then there's the so-called "Arab Spring" prelude to nuclear winter, with the Muslim Brotherhood consolidating power and beginning the implementation of Sharia law in countries like Egypt, that had in better days been quite cosmopolitan. This while Christians are persecuted and churches burned.
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time

Christians have been turning the other cheek to Muhammad's true followers throughout much of Africa, as well as the rest of the world, with predictable results:
united copts .org - Statement by Father Juan Carlos Martos cmf

Since the penalty for leaving Islam is death, and in 53 (mostly Islamic) countries around the world today the Gospel and/or Christian materials are banned or restricted, much of the world is given over to virtually impenetrable darkness.

AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."

Europe is rapidly being conquered, as a result of Islam filling the void created, by secularization and the prophesied apostasy:

"Muslims in Europe are increasingly converting empty Christian churches into mosques.
The proliferation of mosques housed in former churches reflects the rise of Islam as the fastest growing religion in post-Christian Europe."

"As Islam replaces Christianity as the dominant religion in Europe, more and more churches are set to become mosques, which increasingly serve not only as religious institutions but also function as the foundational political building blocks for the establishment of separate, parallel Muslim communities in Europe that are based on Islamic Sharia law."

When global secular powers compelled Israel to abandon control over Gaza, in exchange for yet another false promise of peace, could any other result of Islamic rule have been expected other than the beginning of subjugation and dhimmitude of Christians to Islam?

"Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, an Islamist militant leader in Gaza told WND in an exclusive interview."
"This missionary activity is endangering the entire Christian community in Gaza,"
"His comments come after gunmen on Sunday attacked Gaza's Latin Church and adjacent Rosary Sisters School, reportedly destroying crosses, bibles, pictures of Jesus and furniture and equipment. The attackers also stole a number of computers."
Christians warned: Accept Islamic law

"'Arab Spring' becoming Nightmare For Christians":
"Christians can In the case of Ayyad, who managed the only Christian bookstore in Gaza, his body was discovered riddled with gunshot and stab wounds."
"The witnesses said they saw three armed men, two of whom were wearing masks, beat Ayyad repeatedly with clubs and the butts of their guns while they accused him of attempting to spread Christianity in Gaza. The witnesses said that after sustaining the beating, Ayyad was shot by all three men."
‘Arab Spring’ becoming nightmare for Christians

Make no mistake. The conflict in Israel is the same as most everywhere we find murder, mayhem and misery around the world today (with a little of it perpetrated by communists which is another doctrine that cannot stand the light of the truth of the Gospel).
The term "Palestinian" is nothing more than a smokescreen that serves to mask that the conflict is:

Israeli Muslims (as well as the rest of Middle East Muslims) VS Israeli Jews, Christians and non-Muslim Arabs.

Islam VS the non-Islamic world.

Sahih Bukhari B52 #177 Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "the Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Prophet Genocide - Every Jew must be murdered - YouTube

When Muslims tell you Islam is a peaceful religion, in spite of 1400 years of Islamic history and the commands in their own books, they are wishfully ignorant and hopelessly uninformed, or simply leaving the heavy lifting to their fundamental - true followers of Muhammad that do as Muhammad did and commanded his followers to do - brethren. The peacenicks are the only true "radicals" as they are considered apostate and may even be subject to punishment under the law of renegades and infidels. Either that or those that suggest Islam is a religion of peace are engaging in taqiyyah, or lying in the way of Allah.

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Surah 33:26 "Allah took down the People of the Scripture Book. He cast terror into their hearts. Some you slew, and some you made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, giving you a land which you had not traversed before. And Allah has power over all things."

From a Christian perspective it would be absurd to suggest, that the restoration of Jews to Israel is nothing more than some freaky accident, that happened in a spiritual vacuum. Let alone that Jews remained a group through 2500 years of being scattered among the Gentile nations.

Matthew Henry: "If God will build Jerusalem for the people and their comfort, they must inhabit it for him and his glory. The promises and privileges with which God's people are blessed, should engage us to join them, whatever it costs us."

Isaac Newton “Hence I observe these things, first that the restauration of the Jewish nation so much spoken of by the old Prophets respects not the few Jews who were converted in the Apostles days, but the dispersed nation of the unbelieving Jews to be converted in the end when the fullness of the Gentiles shall enter, that is when the Gospel (upon the fall of Babylon) shall begin to be preached to all nations. Secondly that the prophecies of Isaiah described above by being here cited by the Apostle is limited to respect the time of the future conversion and restitution of the Jewish Nation, and thirdly that the humour which has long reigned among the Christians of boasting our selves against the Jews, and insulting over them for their not believing, is reprehended by the Apostle for high –mindedness and self-conceipt, and much more is our using them despightfully, Pharisaicall and impious”

I would appreciate it if members began their replies as to whether you believe the restoration of Jews to Israel is of the Lord, as millions believe was prophesied - and as Christians anticipated long before that restoration began to take place - or whether you believe it is of Satan, and why, or offer another alternative.
 
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PeteWaldo

Guest
#2
By the way, that Wikipedia quote regarded non-Muslim secular Arabs.
Wikipedia article: "In contrast, a poll of 507 Arab-Israelis conducted by the Israeli Democracy Institute in 2007 found that 75 percent profess support for Israel's status as a Jewish and democratic state which guarantees equal rights for minorities. Israeli Arab support for a constitution in general was 88 percent.[31]"
 
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psychomom

Guest
#3
Hi there, Pete.

Just wondering (and perhaps this was not your intent) why we are elevating unsaved Jews
over unsaved Muslims?

Don't Muslims need Jesus as much as anyone?

Thanks!
-ellie
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#4
Yup, i tend to take the ot prophecies literal. They were literally fulfilled concerning Christ no neeed to think they wont be concerning Israel's regathering as in Ezek 35-38 and elsewhere.
 
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PeteWaldo

Guest
#5
Hi there, Pete.

Just wondering (and perhaps this was not your intent) why we are elevating unsaved Jews
over unsaved Muslims?

Don't Muslims need Jesus as much as anyone?

Thanks!
-ellie
Jews worship our God YHWH as He revealed Himself to them through our Old Testament scriptures. Tens of millions of Christians understand that the "good olive tree" in Romans 11 is a figure for Jews, and the "wild olive tree" for Gentiles. In that discussion regarding God's people we read:

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Now that verse was penned decades after the cross. So if God didn't blind Jews to condemn them, it's difficult to conclude other than He did so, to preclude them from sinning against the Gospel. We have all been saved by the Son, before He was even made manifest:

Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

We learn that some of those branches are broken off because of unbelief:

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.

So it is natural branches that are broken off. I would suggest atheist or agnostic Jews:

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Particularly when we learn:

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.

The cult of Islam on the other hand prostrates themselves to the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca five times a day, while praying in "vain repetitions of the heathen" in the names of the Arabian pagan deity "Allah" and his "messenger" Muhammad. Muslims are required to DISbelieve in the crucifixion of Christ, DENY the Son of God, and REJECT the blood that would save them, as articles of their faith in Muhammad alone.

For a Muslim to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, or even pray in Jesus' name, would be to commit the single-most egregious - and only unforgivable sin in Islam - a sin worse than, for example, child rape or cold-blooded mass murder.
UNFORGIVABLE SIN OF SHIRK

Many amusingly proudly proclaiming to be of the seed of Ishmael, which are the children of the flesh. So no wonder they are obligated to travel to Mecca and march around that black stone idol 7 times as the Arabian moon, sun and star worshipers did, even kissing it on each time around as Muhammad did or if too crowded at least pointing to it on each trip around, and even running back and forth between al-Safa and al-Marwah (two hills) as the Arabian jinn-devil worshipers did. The pagan rituals having been adopted and then thinly veneered by the false prophet Muhammad.

Unfortunately it is Roman Church styled punitive supersessionism, and unsound pop-jesuit inspired eschatology, that tends to blind Christians to the history of the Christian era, which includes 1400 years of Islamic conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims.
 
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PeteWaldo

Guest
#6
Yup, i tend to take the ot prophecies literal. They were literally fulfilled concerning Christ no neeed to think they wont be concerning Israel's regathering as in Ezek 35-38 and elsewhere.
Then how do you explain the physical matter of fact of the restoration of Jews to their land?
I would think you would agree that it did not take place in a spiritual vacuum. So from a Christian perspective it is either of the Lord, or it is of Satan, wouldn't you agree?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#7
Jews worship our God YHWH as He revealed Himself to them through our Old Testament scriptures. Tens of millions of Christians understand that the "good olive tree" in Romans 11 is a figure for Jews, and the "wild olive tree" for Gentiles. In that discussion regarding God's people we read:

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Now that verse was penned decades after the cross. So if God didn't blind Jews to condemn them, it's difficult to conclude other than He did so, to preclude them from sinning against the Gospel. We have all been saved by the Son, before He was even made manifest:

Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

We learn that some of those branches are broken off because of unbelief:

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.

So it is natural branches that are broken off. I would suggest atheist or agnostic Jews:

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Particularly when we learn:

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.

The cult of Islam on the other hand prostrates themselves to the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca five times a day, while praying in the names of the Arabian pagan deity "Allah" and his "messenger" Muhammad. Muslims are required to DISbelieve in the crucifixion of Christ, DENY the Son of God, and REJECT the blood that would save them, as articles of their faith in Muhammad alone.

For a Muslim to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, or even pray in Jesus' name, would be to commit the single-most egregious - and only unforgivable sin in Islam - a sin worse than, for example, child rape or cold-blooded mass murder.
UNFORGIVABLE SIN OF SHIRK

Many amusingly proudly proclaiming to be of the seed of Ishmael, which are the children of the flesh. So no wonder they are obligated to travel to Mecca and march around that black stone idol 7 times as the Arabian moon, sun and star worshipers did, even kissing it on each time around as Muhammad did or if too crowded at least pointing to it on each trip around, and even running back and forth between al-Safa and al-Marwah (two hills) as the Arabian jinn-devil worshipers did. The pagan rituals having been adopted and then thinly veneered by the false prophet Muhammad.

Unfortunately it is Roman Church styled punitive supersessionism, and unsound pop-jesuit inspired eschatology, that tends to blind Christians to the history of the Christian era, which includes 1400 years of Islamic conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims.
Thats all fine and dandy, but for a jew to accept jesus would be just as damning to their religion than a muslim. They are still our enemy concerning the gospel.. because they do not have the gospel in their heart, and they will lead people to hell their way..
 
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PeteWaldo

Guest
#8
Thats all fine and dandy, but for a jew to accept jesus would be just as damning to their religion than a muslim. They are still our enemy concerning the gospel.. because they do not have the gospel in their heart, and they will lead people to hell their way..
If you will explain why you find the bold blue font necessary I will respond to it as is. Otherwise it makes it too laborious to put quote breaks in your post if our chat is to continue beyond this one.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#9
If you will explain why you find the bold blue font necessary I will respond to it as is. Otherwise it makes it too laborious to put quote breaks in your post if our chat is to continue beyond this one.
1. It makes it easier for me to see my posts.

2. It makes it easier to put quotes, and find the breaks between my posts and someone elses post.

I have used this font since I have been here.. It is me..
 
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PeteWaldo

Guest
#10
1. It makes it easier for me to see my posts.

2. It makes it easier to put quotes, and find the breaks between my posts and someone elses post.

I have used this font since I have been here.. It is me..
Then I'll accept it as a vision difficulty and do my best. It strains my eyes. If you hold "ctrl" and put "+" repeatedly you can enlarge the font on any internet page.
 
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PeteWaldo

Guest
#11
Thats all fine and dandy, but for a jew to accept jesus would be just as damning to their religion than a muslim.


It is true that Jews are ostracized by their community, and I think I've read that they might even hold a funeral for them, while they are still alive.

A far cry from the death penalty for "apostasy" - or leaving Islam.

They are still our enemy concerning the gospel.. because they do not have the gospel in their heart, and they will lead people to hell their way..
As we learn in the actual parable of the fig tree, when the tree withers and can produce no more fruit, Jews have been precluded from proselytizing. I believe Jews heavily proselytized, right up until a 2nd century Roman ruler outlawed it. Today only about 0.02% of the global population are Jews.
So there has not been a lot of, as you put it leading "people to hell" as a result of worshiping the great God of the bible YHWH, through Jewish proselytizing.

In stark contrast Islam was spread by the sword. 1.5 billion people are commanded to conquer and subjugate all people to DISbelieving the crucifixion of Christ, and DENYING the Son of God, and REJECTING His shed blood, as articles of faith in the false prophet Muhammad.

Almost succeeded in conquering the whole known world during the Islamic First Jihad until stopped in Tours France and Vienna Austria

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 73:Narrated 'Abdullah bin Abi Aufa: Allah's Apostle said, "Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords."

623 - Battle of Waddan
623 - Battle of Safwan
623 - Battle of Dul-Ashir
624 - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
624 - Zakat becomes mandatory
624 - Battle of Badr
624 - Battle of Bani Salim
624 - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
624 - Battle of Bani Qainuqa
624 - Battle of Sawiq
624 - Battle of Ghatfan
624 - Battle of Bahran
625 - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
625 - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
625 - Battle of Banu Nudair
625 - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
626 - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
626 - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
626 - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
627 - Battle of the Trench
627 - Battle of Ahzab
627 - Battle of Bani Quraiza
627 - Battle of Bani Lahyan
627 - Battle of Ghaiba
627 - Battle of Khaibar
628 - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
630 - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
630 - Battle of Hunsin.
630 - Battle of Tabuk
632 - Muhammad dies.
632 - Abu-Bakr, Muhammads father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to enforce Islam in Arabia.
633 - Battle at Oman
633 - Battle at Hadramaut.
633 - Battle of Kazima
633 - Battle of Walaja
633 - Battle of Ulleis
633 - Battle of Anbar
634 - Battle of Basra,
634 - Battle of Damascus
634 - Battle of Ajnadin.
634 - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
634 - Battle of Namaraq
634 - Battle of Saqatia.
635 - Battle of Bridge.
635 - Battle of Buwaib.
635 - Conquest of Damascus.
635 - Battle of Fahl.
636 - Battle of Yermuk.
636 - Battle of Qadsiyia.
636 - Conquest of Madain.
637 - Battle of Jalula.
638 - Battle of Yarmouk.
638 - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
638 - Conquest of Jazirah.
639 - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
641 - Battle of Nihawand
642 - Battle of Ray in Persia
643 - Conquest of Azarbaijan
644 - Conquest of Fars
644 - Conquest of Kharan.
644 - Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
647 - Conquest of the island of Cypress
644 - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
648 - Campaign against the Byzantines.
651 - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
654 - Islam spreads into North Africa
656 - Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
658 - Battle of Nahrawan.
659 - Conquest of Egypt
661 - Ali is murdered.
662 - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
666 - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
677 - Siege of Constantinople
687 - Battle of Kufa
691 - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
700 - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
700 - Military campaigns in North Africa
702 - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
711 - Muslims invade Gibraltar
711 - Conquest of Spain
713 - Conquest of Multan
716 - Invasion of Constantinople
732 - Battle of Tours in France.
740 - Battle of the Nobles.
741 - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
744 - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
746 - Battle of Rupar Thutha
748 - Battle of Rayy.
749 - Battle of lsfahan
749 - Battle of Nihawand
750 - Battle of Zab
772 - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
777 - Battle of Saragossa in Spain
 
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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
#12
This comes to mind :

John 4

15The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw. 16Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 17The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 18For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. 19The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee amhe.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
#13
John 6

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.41The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. 42And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? 43Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48I am that bread of life. 49Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
John 14

Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.8Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#14


It is true that Jews are ostracized by their community, and I think I've read that they might even hold a funeral for them, while they are still alive.

A far cry from the death penalty for "apostasy" - or leaving Islam.


Does this even really matter?

A person who is trying to get to God through Islam is no more saved, or no more condemned eternally than a person trying to get to God through Judaism.. Both are in eternal danger.

As we learn in the actual parable of the fig tree, when the tree withers and can produce no more fruit, Jews have been precluded from proselytizing. I believe Jews heavily proselytized, right up until a 2nd century Roman ruler outlawed it. Today only about 0.02% of the global population are Jews.
So there has not been a lot of, as you put it leading "people to hell" as a result of worshiping the great God of the bible YHWH, through Jewish proselytizing.

In stark contrast Islam was spread by the sword. 1.5 billion people are commanded to conquer and subjugate all people to DISbelieving the crucifixion of Christ, and DENYING the Son of God, and REJECTING His shed blood, as articles of faith in the false prophet Muhammad.

Almost succeeded in conquering the whole known world during the Islamic First Jihad until stopped in Tours France and Vienna Austria

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 73:Narrated 'Abdullah bin Abi Aufa: Allah's Apostle said, "Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords."

623 - Battle of Waddan
623 - Battle of Safwan
623 - Battle of Dul-Ashir
624 - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
624 - Zakat becomes mandatory
624 - Battle of Badr
624 - Battle of Bani Salim
624 - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
624 - Battle of Bani Qainuqa
624 - Battle of Sawiq
624 - Battle of Ghatfan
624 - Battle of Bahran
625 - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
625 - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
625 - Battle of Banu Nudair
625 - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
626 - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
626 - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
626 - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
627 - Battle of the Trench
627 - Battle of Ahzab
627 - Battle of Bani Quraiza
627 - Battle of Bani Lahyan
627 - Battle of Ghaiba
627 - Battle of Khaibar
628 - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
630 - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
630 - Battle of Hunsin.
630 - Battle of Tabuk
632 - Muhammad dies.
632 - Abu-Bakr, Muhammads father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to enforce Islam in Arabia.
633 - Battle at Oman
633 - Battle at Hadramaut.
633 - Battle of Kazima
633 - Battle of Walaja
633 - Battle of Ulleis
633 - Battle of Anbar
634 - Battle of Basra,
634 - Battle of Damascus
634 - Battle of Ajnadin.
634 - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
634 - Battle of Namaraq
634 - Battle of Saqatia.
635 - Battle of Bridge.
635 - Battle of Buwaib.
635 - Conquest of Damascus.
635 - Battle of Fahl.
636 - Battle of Yermuk.
636 - Battle of Qadsiyia.
636 - Conquest of Madain.
637 - Battle of Jalula.
638 - Battle of Yarmouk.
638 - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
638 - Conquest of Jazirah.
639 - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
641 - Battle of Nihawand
642 - Battle of Ray in Persia
643 - Conquest of Azarbaijan
644 - Conquest of Fars
644 - Conquest of Kharan.
644 - Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
647 - Conquest of the island of Cypress
644 - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
648 - Campaign against the Byzantines.
651 - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
654 - Islam spreads into North Africa
656 - Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
658 - Battle of Nahrawan.
659 - Conquest of Egypt
661 - Ali is murdered.
662 - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
666 - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
677 - Siege of Constantinople
687 - Battle of Kufa
691 - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
700 - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
700 - Military campaigns in North Africa
702 - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
711 - Muslims invade Gibraltar
711 - Conquest of Spain
713 - Conquest of Multan
716 - Invasion of Constantinople
732 - Battle of Tours in France.
740 - Battle of the Nobles.
741 - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
744 - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
746 - Battle of Rupar Thutha
748 - Battle of Rayy.
749 - Battle of lsfahan
749 - Battle of Nihawand
750 - Battle of Zab
772 - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
777 - Battle of Saragossa in Spain
A false gospel is false. it does not matter how big it is or how small it is. We do not hold up one false gospel over anything. This is not of God.

Palestinains need God just as bad as the jews do..
 
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PeteWaldo

Guest
#15
This comes to mind :

John 4
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

That verse was penned decades after the cross. Why would God blind some Jews?

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.

How can someone be an enemy of the Gospel but beloved?
 
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psychomom

Guest
#16
So...you believe God has 2 different covenants going with mankind?
Two different ways to be in covenant with Him, one through the Law and one through the Lord Jesus?
 
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PeteWaldo

Guest
#17
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#18
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So you drank the kool-aid.
Why would you prefer the invention of a Roman ruler than the biblical term "Israel"?


So they are not a people. and we should love on a bunch of jews who deny their messiah, and hate on some gentiles who need God just as bad as they do. A name is just a name. THEY ALL NEED GOD.

So feel you can confidently proclaim God's judgments on faithful Jews, that worship YHWH through our Old Testament scriptures?

Who is talking about them? They are not what we are talking about. we are talking about jews today, who still reject Christ!~
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
#20
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So you drank the kool-aid.
Why would you prefer the invention of a Roman ruler than the biblical term "Israel"?

So feel you can confidently proclaim God's judgments on faithful Jews, that worship YHWH through our Old Testament scriptures?


Are you serious?

Faithful Jews?

Have you read the Bible?