Where did the idea that the soul is immortal originate?
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R
the 'immortality' of the soul has been regarded as pretty much self evident by practically every culture since the beginning of time...
a much more interesting question is...where did the ideas of mortalism and annihiliationism originate?
the answer is that both came from the apostate spirit of rationalism that had begun to infiltrate the churches in the nineteenth century... one of the primary foundations of the rationalist worldview is the premise of materialism...which basically denies the existence of spiritual things and holds that physical matter is all there is...and claims that everything that has ever happened and ever will happen is merely the result of physical matter acting mechanically under the physical laws of nature...the newtonian 'clockwork universe' taken to a godless extreme...
this view originated in and was very popular within the 'enlightenment' movement of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries...it found its way into the churches in the nineteenth century along with many other rationalistic 'enlightenment' notions such as lyellian geology and darwinian evolution and 'higher criticism' of the biblical text...
the view especially appealed to those who had an emotional need to deny the biblical doctrines of hell and eternal punishment...but who weren't brave enough to embrace the more obviously heretical position of universalism...
today the mortalist and annihilationist views are held primarily by the adventist churches and their offshoots...a movement that not coincidentally appeared in the middle of the nineteenth century when the infiltration of rationalism into the churches had begun in earnest...
of course a lot has happened since then...and empirical testing and formal logic have shown that this view is not only unscriptural but also scientifically untenable...but both atheists and a small fringe of christians continue to hold to this opinion in spite of all evidence to the contrary...
a much more interesting question is...where did the ideas of mortalism and annihiliationism originate?
the answer is that both came from the apostate spirit of rationalism that had begun to infiltrate the churches in the nineteenth century... one of the primary foundations of the rationalist worldview is the premise of materialism...which basically denies the existence of spiritual things and holds that physical matter is all there is...and claims that everything that has ever happened and ever will happen is merely the result of physical matter acting mechanically under the physical laws of nature...the newtonian 'clockwork universe' taken to a godless extreme...
this view originated in and was very popular within the 'enlightenment' movement of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries...it found its way into the churches in the nineteenth century along with many other rationalistic 'enlightenment' notions such as lyellian geology and darwinian evolution and 'higher criticism' of the biblical text...
the view especially appealed to those who had an emotional need to deny the biblical doctrines of hell and eternal punishment...but who weren't brave enough to embrace the more obviously heretical position of universalism...
today the mortalist and annihilationist views are held primarily by the adventist churches and their offshoots...a movement that not coincidentally appeared in the middle of the nineteenth century when the infiltration of rationalism into the churches had begun in earnest...
of course a lot has happened since then...and empirical testing and formal logic have shown that this view is not only unscriptural but also scientifically untenable...but both atheists and a small fringe of christians continue to hold to this opinion in spite of all evidence to the contrary...
You claim God has no body? Jesus is God. He has a body.
So,, you inserted the word "immortal" in your very first post when you referred falsly to an "immortal" spirit returning. You made that up. There is no scripture that says her "Immortal spirit" returned to her. Again,, you made that up.
Only God is immortal. That is what the scripture says. You can spin and twist all you want. the bottom line is this:
Satan is a liar. Satan told Eve; "Ye shall not surely die". Genesis 3:4
God said, "ye shall not eat of it, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." Genesis 2:17
And here you sit siding with Satan over God? I find you utterly amazing!
Suddenly, God is the liar and satan the truthteller?
Satan had a plan. He wanted adam and eve to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and THEN go and eat from the tree of life... Then sin and sinners would be immortal. But if you read on,, God didn't permit Adam nor Eve to eat from the tree of Life after they disobeyed Him! God placed an angel with a sword to guard the entrance to way to the Tree of life.
You probably didn't consider that.
So,, you inserted the word "immortal" in your very first post when you referred falsly to an "immortal" spirit returning. You made that up. There is no scripture that says her "Immortal spirit" returned to her. Again,, you made that up.
Only God is immortal. That is what the scripture says. You can spin and twist all you want. the bottom line is this:
Satan is a liar. Satan told Eve; "Ye shall not surely die". Genesis 3:4
God said, "ye shall not eat of it, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." Genesis 2:17
And here you sit siding with Satan over God? I find you utterly amazing!
Suddenly, God is the liar and satan the truthteller?
Satan had a plan. He wanted adam and eve to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and THEN go and eat from the tree of life... Then sin and sinners would be immortal. But if you read on,, God didn't permit Adam nor Eve to eat from the tree of Life after they disobeyed Him! God placed an angel with a sword to guard the entrance to way to the Tree of life.
You probably didn't consider that.
Cessation of existence? Nah.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Thus Satan won't cease to exist and neither will the unsaved souls. Annihilationism is unbiblical.
I presume you're referring to this...
Malachi 4:1-3
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
You are aware of figurative language, right?
The unsaved dead are currently in hades (Luke 16:23) which is the temporary hell that will eventually be cast into the lake of fire after the final judgment (Rev 20:14).
That's your opinion, Sir. The bible is the ultimate authority of Truth. Just like the three Hebrew boys were in the fire and not consumed, it'll be likewise for those in lake of fire. There's no such thing as annihilation. The bible says the unsaved will be tormented eternally, just as God is eternal. Even the worms in hell fire will not die as per Mark 9:48. So why couldn't it be the same for the souls in there?
Figurative language.
The death spoken of is the second death, which is eternal (ENDLESS) separation from God in the lake of fire.
The existence in hell is not termed 'eternal life', but eternal death. However it is not death in the sense of cessation of existence (annihilation).
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Thus Satan won't cease to exist and neither will the unsaved souls. Annihilationism is unbiblical.
I presume you're referring to this...
Malachi 4:1-3
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
You are aware of figurative language, right?
The unsaved dead are currently in hades (Luke 16:23) which is the temporary hell that will eventually be cast into the lake of fire after the final judgment (Rev 20:14).
That's your opinion, Sir. The bible is the ultimate authority of Truth. Just like the three Hebrew boys were in the fire and not consumed, it'll be likewise for those in lake of fire. There's no such thing as annihilation. The bible says the unsaved will be tormented eternally, just as God is eternal. Even the worms in hell fire will not die as per Mark 9:48. So why couldn't it be the same for the souls in there?
Figurative language.
The death spoken of is the second death, which is eternal (ENDLESS) separation from God in the lake of fire.
The existence in hell is not termed 'eternal life', but eternal death. However it is not death in the sense of cessation of existence (annihilation).
You say "satan wont cease to exist".. .. well,, what does God say about that?
"By the iniquity of your trading: Therefore I brought fire from your midst: it devoured yo, And I turned you to ashes upon the earth. In the sight of all who saw you. All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you:
You have become a horror, And shall be no more forever." Ezekiel 28:18,19.
You probably think "eternal fire" never goes out either,,, right?
"By the iniquity of your trading: Therefore I brought fire from your midst: it devoured yo, And I turned you to ashes upon the earth. In the sight of all who saw you. All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you:
You have become a horror, And shall be no more forever." Ezekiel 28:18,19.
You probably think "eternal fire" never goes out either,,, right?
I don't really understand how you can quote Romans and not understand the words you quoted.
For the wages of sin is death.
Mankind was not created to die. We die because of sin. Adam and Eve did not drop dead when they ate the forbidden fruit but they did die just as God told them. Notably opposite of what Satan told them. IF we were not created eternal then we would have been paying a price (death) for something we had not done wrong. (sin) There are two deaths. One is the death of the body the other is the death of the soul. What is written? Do not be afraid of the one who can only destroy the body but be afraid of the one who can destroy both body and soul.
Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
So the answer to your question is simple. The idea that our souls are immortal comes directly from scripture.
For the wages of sin is death.
Mankind was not created to die. We die because of sin. Adam and Eve did not drop dead when they ate the forbidden fruit but they did die just as God told them. Notably opposite of what Satan told them. IF we were not created eternal then we would have been paying a price (death) for something we had not done wrong. (sin) There are two deaths. One is the death of the body the other is the death of the soul. What is written? Do not be afraid of the one who can only destroy the body but be afraid of the one who can destroy both body and soul.
Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
So the answer to your question is simple. The idea that our souls are immortal comes directly from scripture.
Matthew 10:28 is Proof that the soul is NOT Immortal! If it was,, it would be indestructable. Jesus Himself says fear Him who CAN destroy it.
Immortality is a gift bestowed to the Rightous. Do you realize that even the unfallen worlds were in danger of contracting the sin virus had Jesus failed in His mission to withstand the Temptations of Satan?
We were created to be Immortal. but not by our own accord. Only God is immortal.
Are you going to claim Satan is immortal? God says that He will destroy Satan with fire and turn him to ash upon the face of the earth, and he will be no more. Ezekiel 28: 18,19.
Only God hath Immortality. (1 timothy 6:15,16) Man is mortal, Job 4;17.
If we were immortal, we would have no need of a God, or a Savior for that matter. Souls die, And the Bible says so:
"The soul that sinneth shall die." Ezekiel 18:4. And, "Every living soul died in the sea." Revelation 16:3
Wrong. . .that is your own invention, and has absolutely no Biblical basis.
Only if the Holy Spirit (pneuma) is only breathed air can the spirit of the girl (pneuma) simply be the "breath of life."
The Greek of the text does not allow her spirit (pneuma) to be simply her breath (pnoe),
and nowhere in the NT is "spirit" ever used of "breath."
It is your premise that is false here.
You've got some reckoning to do with the Scriptures.
Only if the Holy Spirit (pneuma) is only breathed air can the spirit of the girl (pneuma) simply be the "breath of life."
The Greek of the text does not allow her spirit (pneuma) to be simply her breath (pnoe),
and nowhere in the NT is "spirit" ever used of "breath."
It is your premise that is false here.
You've got some reckoning to do with the Scriptures.
You know God said that if they ate from the Tree of knowledge of good and evil they would die.
You know Satan contested that fact, when he said ,, "Ye shall not surely die."
And it is quite apparent that you have sided with Satan on this issue, even though God distinctly tells you they would die.
I sure hope you reconsider your position. Satan has long readied earths people to believe the dead are alive.
Goodluck.
You know Satan contested that fact, when he said ,, "Ye shall not surely die."
And it is quite apparent that you have sided with Satan on this issue, even though God distinctly tells you they would die.
I sure hope you reconsider your position. Satan has long readied earths people to believe the dead are alive.
Goodluck.
Wrong. . .that is your own invention, and has absolutely no Biblical basis.
Time to revisit Lk 8:55.
Only if the Holy Spirit (pneuma) is simply breathed air can the spirit of the girl (pneuma) simply be the "breath of life."
The Greek of the text does not allow her spirit (pneuma) to be simply her breath (pnoe),
and nowhere in the NT is "spirit" ever used of "breath."
It is your premise that is false here.
So all ten of these are still on the table unaddressed:
Indignant posturing is a poor substitute for addressing the Scriptures here.
If you expect to be taken seriously, you must address these.
Failure to do so simply shows you are not serious, you are just venting.
1) We see the living (immortal) spirit return to the body in Lk 8:55.
2) Then there is what Jesus said:
Mt 22:31-32 - "In the account of the bush (Lk 20:37-38), have you not read what God said to you, 'I am (present tense) the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
Two hundred years after the death of the patriarchs, God declared he is (present tense) the God of the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Ex 3:6). Since he is (present tense) the God only of the living, and not the God of the dead, what part of the patriarchs are still living?
Lk 16:22-26 - "The time came when the beggar man died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. . .he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to. . .cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
But Abraham replied. . .'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
Jesus presented the rich man in hell, with he and Abraham conversing with one another after their deaths.
So if their bodies are dead, what parts of them are conversing with each other?
Lk 8:51 - "If anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."
Well, all those to whom Jesus spoke those words are now dead.
And God told Adam that the day he ate of the fruit he would die, but he lived for centuries.
So what died, and what did not die?
Jn 5:24 - "Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal llife. . .he has crossed over from death to life."
So what was dead? . . .it wasn't their bodies.
From what death did they cross over?
3) We find the same thing in the epistles:
1Jn 3:14 - "We know we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. . .no murderer has eternal life in him."
Again, what was dead? . . .it wasn't their bodies.
From what death did they pass?
Col 2:13 - "When you were dead in your sins. . .God made you alive with Christ."
Eph 2:1,3 - "You were dead in your transgressions and sins. . .by nature objects of wrath."
Again, what was dead? It wasn't their bodies.
Php 1:23 - "I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ which is better by far, but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."
The NT plainly states that when believers die, they are with Christ, apart from their body.
So what part of them is with Christ, apart from their body?
Heb 12:18, 22-24 - "You have not come to a mountain that is burning with fire. . .You have come to Mount Zion. . .You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant. . ."
The NT reveals that the spirits of former righteous believers (e.g., Abel and Noah, vv.4, 7) are immortal
and are waiting for the resurrection.
You've got some reckoning to do with the Scriptures if you expect to be taken seriously, and not as an amateur.[/QUOTE]
Time to revisit Lk 8:55.
Only if the Holy Spirit (pneuma) is simply breathed air can the spirit of the girl (pneuma) simply be the "breath of life."
The Greek of the text does not allow her spirit (pneuma) to be simply her breath (pnoe),
and nowhere in the NT is "spirit" ever used of "breath."
It is your premise that is false here.
So all ten of these are still on the table unaddressed:
Indignant posturing is a poor substitute for addressing the Scriptures here.
If you expect to be taken seriously, you must address these.
Failure to do so simply shows you are not serious, you are just venting.
1) We see the living (immortal) spirit return to the body in Lk 8:55.
2) Then there is what Jesus said:
Mt 22:31-32 - "In the account of the bush (Lk 20:37-38), have you not read what God said to you, 'I am (present tense) the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
Two hundred years after the death of the patriarchs, God declared he is (present tense) the God of the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Ex 3:6). Since he is (present tense) the God only of the living, and not the God of the dead, what part of the patriarchs are still living?
Lk 16:22-26 - "The time came when the beggar man died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. . .he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to. . .cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
But Abraham replied. . .'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
Jesus presented the rich man in hell, with he and Abraham conversing with one another after their deaths.
So if their bodies are dead, what parts of them are conversing with each other?
Lk 8:51 - "If anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."
Well, all those to whom Jesus spoke those words are now dead.
And God told Adam that the day he ate of the fruit he would die, but he lived for centuries.
So what died, and what did not die?
Jn 5:24 - "Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal llife. . .he has crossed over from death to life."
So what was dead? . . .it wasn't their bodies.
From what death did they cross over?
3) We find the same thing in the epistles:
1Jn 3:14 - "We know we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. . .no murderer has eternal life in him."
Again, what was dead? . . .it wasn't their bodies.
From what death did they pass?
Col 2:13 - "When you were dead in your sins. . .God made you alive with Christ."
Eph 2:1,3 - "You were dead in your transgressions and sins. . .by nature objects of wrath."
Again, what was dead? It wasn't their bodies.
Php 1:23 - "I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ which is better by far, but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."
The NT plainly states that when believers die, they are with Christ, apart from their body.
So what part of them is with Christ, apart from their body?
Heb 12:18, 22-24 - "You have not come to a mountain that is burning with fire. . .You have come to Mount Zion. . .You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant. . ."
The NT reveals that the spirits of former righteous believers (e.g., Abel and Noah, vv.4, 7) are immortal
and are waiting for the resurrection.
You've got some reckoning to do with the Scriptures if you expect to be taken seriously, and not as an amateur.[/QUOTE]
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[/QUOTE]
They are on your table to deal with it. Not mine.
You've mentioned a Parable of the rich man, Abraham & Lazarus....lol,, It's a parable!!!! Surely you don't think we all will live on the chest of Abraham for the rest of eternity? do you also believe that a sip of water would satify those in the lake of fire? lol... Jesus taught one parable after another,, parable of the barren fig tree,, the parable of the Mustard seed, the parable of the Leaven, the Parable of the great supper, the parable of the lost sheep, the parable of the lost coin, the parable of the lost son, the parable of the unjust steward......Then we finally reach the Parable of the Rich man and Lazarus. These Parables are all in a row in the book of Luke,, and you finally get to the Parable of the rich man and Lazarus and decide THAT ONE is REAL STORY???????? Wow!
Have you considered what Job 14:12,21 have to say???????
"So man lieth down and riseth not, til the heavens be no more, they shall not awake nor be raised from their sleep."
How does that scripture go with your beleiving that the dead can communicate with the living? Doesn't work too well does it?
Or how about this scripture: "The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything. Also their love, and their hatred and their envy is now perished." "There is no knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, wither thou goest."
You have taken a Parable and decided it's a factual truth... No wonder you are so bent on believing the dead are alive.
They are on your table to deal with it. Not mine.
You've mentioned a Parable of the rich man, Abraham & Lazarus....lol,, It's a parable!!!! Surely you don't think we all will live on the chest of Abraham for the rest of eternity? do you also believe that a sip of water would satify those in the lake of fire? lol... Jesus taught one parable after another,, parable of the barren fig tree,, the parable of the Mustard seed, the parable of the Leaven, the Parable of the great supper, the parable of the lost sheep, the parable of the lost coin, the parable of the lost son, the parable of the unjust steward......Then we finally reach the Parable of the Rich man and Lazarus. These Parables are all in a row in the book of Luke,, and you finally get to the Parable of the rich man and Lazarus and decide THAT ONE is REAL STORY???????? Wow!
Have you considered what Job 14:12,21 have to say???????
"So man lieth down and riseth not, til the heavens be no more, they shall not awake nor be raised from their sleep."
How does that scripture go with your beleiving that the dead can communicate with the living? Doesn't work too well does it?
Or how about this scripture: "The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything. Also their love, and their hatred and their envy is now perished." "There is no knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, wither thou goest."
You have taken a Parable and decided it's a factual truth... No wonder you are so bent on believing the dead are alive.
Are you advocating for soul sleep or annihilation of the soul? Sounds like JW cultism to me.
And whosoever was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:15 They are not casting ashes into the lake of fire. Nope says in vss 12-13 they was dead but they stood before God and were judged then they was cast into the lake of fire. They did not go voluntarily they was cast. Dead folks can't resist. Just sayin'
For the cause of Christ
Roger
And whosoever was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:15 They are not casting ashes into the lake of fire. Nope says in vss 12-13 they was dead but they stood before God and were judged then they was cast into the lake of fire. They did not go voluntarily they was cast. Dead folks can't resist. Just sayin'
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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D
Seventh Day Adventism started by a woman who started to see visions after she was hit in the head by a rock. It is now well known that she copied (plagiarized) other writers work and claimed she got them from God. ..and you actually believe the lies that came out of this whacked woman and how show explained away the clear teachings of scripture? Good luck with that.
Well michael ima put it to you this way pretty much everyone one here disagrees with you an there showing clear scripture to back up there points an you counter by saying there wrong an posting your on scripture to argue your point but all your scripture isnt clear it can be interpeted in diffrent ways an some of it cwn just be called symbolic so what makes more sence beliving those scriptures who clearly state something like eternal punishment or beliving a humans interpetation of vauge scriptire.... also you keep pointing out satan swying you shall not surely die what exwctly does that have to do with hell?
Did Jesus refer to death as a sleep? He did when he was referring to Lazarus, whom He raised.
John 11:11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that i may wake Him up."
Then His disiples said , "Lord , if he sleeps he will get well." However Jesus spoke of his death but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
Then Jesus said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead."
I am a 7th day Adventist,,but I do beleive that the Jehovahs witnesses have it right when it comes to the state of the dead.
John 11:11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that i may wake Him up."
Then His disiples said , "Lord , if he sleeps he will get well." However Jesus spoke of his death but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
Then Jesus said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead."
I am a 7th day Adventist,,but I do beleive that the Jehovahs witnesses have it right when it comes to the state of the dead.
D
Here are a few verses I don't think you have seen yet.
1) " And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Mathew 25:46
2) "If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, that person was thrown into the lake offire." Rev. 20:15
3) "And just as people are appointed to die once, and then to face judgment" Hebrews 9:27
4) "The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him." John 3:36
5) "“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels!" Mathew 25:41
6) “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth” Mathew 13:50
7) " “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”" Mark 9:48
8) “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone” Revelation 14:10
9) “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night” Revelation 14:11
1) " And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Mathew 25:46
2) "If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, that person was thrown into the lake offire." Rev. 20:15
3) "And just as people are appointed to die once, and then to face judgment" Hebrews 9:27
4) "The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him." John 3:36
5) "“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels!" Mathew 25:41
6) “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth” Mathew 13:50
7) " “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”" Mark 9:48
8) “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone” Revelation 14:10
9) “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night” Revelation 14:11
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That could be prophecy concerning the ruin of the king of Tyre. The destruction into ashes isn't alluding to annihilation in hell fire.
What do you then say about Rev 20:10, Sir? Do you disregard that clear passage concerning the fate of the devil?
Undoubtedly. Scripture attest an inextinguishable fire: Mark 9:43 "...the fire that never shall be quenched".
What do you then say about Rev 20:10, Sir? Do you disregard that clear passage concerning the fate of the devil?
Undoubtedly. Scripture attest an inextinguishable fire: Mark 9:43 "...the fire that never shall be quenched".
I've seen them all,, and I also believe you know that I have.
Eternal punishment is eternal Death! It's not lingering on alive and in torture forever and ever.
The lake of fire is the Earth on fire. God will set this earth ablaze. That fire will accomplish two things:
It will destroy the wicked & it will cleanse the earth. Then when the fire goes out (it will go out) God will make a new Earth.
There will not be found anything on this planet that will remind us of sinful earth and it's worldy offerings. Not a bottle cap will be found, nor a cigarette butt.
The only sign that sin ever existed will be found in the scars of the savior, who will forever bare the scars of His crucifiction!!!
The fire that consumes the wicked cannot be quenched,, That is,, it will not go out until it completes it's consuming work! Same with the worm,, it eats til there is nothing left to consume. When sin is finished, it bringeth forth death. Not life everlasting in the lake of fire.
Besides the Bible says the "former things" shall pass away. Would the "former things" really pass away if the wicked remained alive in the lake of fire and sin always existed, forever and ever?
The weeping and nashing of teeth is a result of the wicked finally realizing their position and the choices they have made to get them where they are at.
The wicked will become ashes. Read Malachi chapter 4. We (the saved) shall trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of our feet.
Notice also that satan is destroyed and becomes ashes as well. Read Ezekiel 28:18,19.
The smoke of their torment: They will be burned up, become stubble, become ashes,, naturally the smoke from all of this will rise and dissapate into the atmosphere. The smoke from any fire does the same thing,, rises and disapates into the atmosphere.
Thanks for the question.
Eternal punishment is eternal Death! It's not lingering on alive and in torture forever and ever.
The lake of fire is the Earth on fire. God will set this earth ablaze. That fire will accomplish two things:
It will destroy the wicked & it will cleanse the earth. Then when the fire goes out (it will go out) God will make a new Earth.
There will not be found anything on this planet that will remind us of sinful earth and it's worldy offerings. Not a bottle cap will be found, nor a cigarette butt.
The only sign that sin ever existed will be found in the scars of the savior, who will forever bare the scars of His crucifiction!!!
The fire that consumes the wicked cannot be quenched,, That is,, it will not go out until it completes it's consuming work! Same with the worm,, it eats til there is nothing left to consume. When sin is finished, it bringeth forth death. Not life everlasting in the lake of fire.
Besides the Bible says the "former things" shall pass away. Would the "former things" really pass away if the wicked remained alive in the lake of fire and sin always existed, forever and ever?
The weeping and nashing of teeth is a result of the wicked finally realizing their position and the choices they have made to get them where they are at.
The wicked will become ashes. Read Malachi chapter 4. We (the saved) shall trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of our feet.
Notice also that satan is destroyed and becomes ashes as well. Read Ezekiel 28:18,19.
The smoke of their torment: They will be burned up, become stubble, become ashes,, naturally the smoke from all of this will rise and dissapate into the atmosphere. The smoke from any fire does the same thing,, rises and disapates into the atmosphere.
Thanks for the question.
D
Show me how you reach this conclusion?
Again, can you show me where in the bible it says this?
What scriptures do you base this on?
You claim "fires that can not be quenched" and say they will go out. Are you still talking about the same subject or mixing two unrelated concepts?
I have noticed you only "prove you points from old Testament scriptures and then interpret new testament Scriptures in the light of the old Testament verse. Isn't this the cart before the horse? All other bible schools say the old testament is to be interpreted by the New testament but you have that completely backwards. Maybe this is the reason why you have believed so many false assertions?
Again, can you show me where in the bible it says this?
What scriptures do you base this on?
You claim "fires that can not be quenched" and say they will go out. Are you still talking about the same subject or mixing two unrelated concepts?
I have noticed you only "prove you points from old Testament scriptures and then interpret new testament Scriptures in the light of the old Testament verse. Isn't this the cart before the horse? All other bible schools say the old testament is to be interpreted by the New testament but you have that completely backwards. Maybe this is the reason why you have believed so many false assertions?
