Did Christ cancel the OT, or teach us how to use it?
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Mat_5:17 "Don't assume that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did notcome to destroy butto fulfill.
Hello sister RedTent:
I think the law could not be fulfilled by man. the purpose of the law was not for us to fulfill it,but to learn that we couldn't fulfill it and learn that we needed a savior.GOD had mercy on us and fulfilled the law for us, gave us his righteousness and gave us grace. (now its grace through faith)so that we could have a relatioship with GOD,by faith in the finished work of CHRIST.
Hello sister RedTent:
I think the law could not be fulfilled by man. the purpose of the law was not for us to fulfill it,but to learn that we couldn't fulfill it and learn that we needed a savior.GOD had mercy on us and fulfilled the law for us, gave us his righteousness and gave us grace. (now its grace through faith)so that we could have a relatioship with GOD,by faith in the finished work of CHRIST.
Moses was never called a mediator in any scripture I can find. Yet I totally agree with you saying that jesus has been the mediator from adam until today. Therefore, when the Bible says 1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
It clearly is seen that Jesus is the man. The God of creation since the beginning unto men. One can never say that Christ Jesus did not mediate during the OT. All things are in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
It clearly is seen that Jesus is the man. The God of creation since the beginning unto men. One can never say that Christ Jesus did not mediate during the OT. All things are in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
The people didn't want to listen to God because they were scared for their life. One can't take it as a rebellious streak. With that in mind listen to the prayer of Solomon,
1 Kings 8:46-50 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness;
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And so return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name:
[SUP]49 [/SUP]Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause,
[SUP]50 [/SUP]And forgive thy people that have sinned against thee, and all their transgressions wherein they have transgressed against thee, and give them compassion before them who carried them captive, that they may have compassion on them:
If you have ever heard of the Roman road, starting with Romans 3:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
I'm sure everyone can see the parallel.
1 Kings 8:46-50 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness;
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And so return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name:
[SUP]49 [/SUP]Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause,
[SUP]50 [/SUP]And forgive thy people that have sinned against thee, and all their transgressions wherein they have transgressed against thee, and give them compassion before them who carried them captive, that they may have compassion on them:
If you have ever heard of the Roman road, starting with Romans 3:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
I'm sure everyone can see the parallel.
The title of this thread is a very interesting question. Jesus said that all the law and prophets are summed up when a person does the things in Matt 22:37-
Mt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mt 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mt 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mt 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Paul said it this way - 1Ti 1:5 ¶ Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
(KJV)
If all the commandments added together (summed up) equal Love for God and neighbor. Then the individual commandments in the law are incremental steps (whether allegorical or not) that teach Christians to Love both God and their neighbor.
Respectfully - Brian
Mt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mt 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mt 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mt 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Paul said it this way - 1Ti 1:5 ¶ Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
(KJV)
If all the commandments added together (summed up) equal Love for God and neighbor. Then the individual commandments in the law are incremental steps (whether allegorical or not) that teach Christians to Love both God and their neighbor.
Respectfully - Brian
When you say purpose of the law, you must include all purpose, not just one. And the word fulfill is to make perfect. When I finish and complete something I am making, it is fulfilled but now I have what I made. So it was that Christ did. Now we have what he completed. We are forgiven, wiped clean of our sin, through Christ and grace. We have faith in God and all God is, and the Hebrew meaning of faith includes knowing something is dependable and solid so you act on it. So if you say grace is through faith, you are saying you believe in all of God and you act on that.
None of this is adding to scripture by saying man came to fulfill the law. Or anything about man fulfilling it. But there is scripture saying God is in the law. Not the letter of the law, but the law as it explains love. And there is scripture to say we are to obey the law.
None of this is adding to scripture by saying man came to fulfill the law. Or anything about man fulfilling it. But there is scripture saying God is in the law. Not the letter of the law, but the law as it explains love. And there is scripture to say we are to obey the law.
Moses was a type of messiah who mediated the old covenant between GOD and Israel.
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19
And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words. Exodus 24:8
1 Timothy 2:5 refers to the new covenant.
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19
And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words. Exodus 24:8
All of the feasts have not been fulfilled by Christ. Christ fulfilled 100% the Spring Feasts (Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits/Feast of weeks and Pentecost/Shavuot.) The three remaining feasts which occur in the Fall have not yet been fulfilled by Christ, but He will fulfill these also 100%!!
Which "rituals" are you saying Christ fulfilled? The sacrifices of burnt offerings, sacrifice of peace offering, sacrifice of thanksgiving, sacrifice voluntary offering, sacrifice of sin offering?
Lev 23:37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:
Lev 23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.
And in the millenium we see what is known as Ezekiel Temple where sacrifices and offerings are made again (this is future).
Ezekiel 40-48
Eze 40:39 And in the porch of the gate were two tables on this side, and two tables on that side, to slay thereon the burnt offering and the sin offering and the trespass offering.
Why does Christ have an earthly temple and offerings made in the millenium?
And why does Zechariah prophecy? Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Not all of the OT is obsolete. Actually, if your spiritual eyes were opened you would know that none of the OT is obsolete. Unless you want to argue semantics like the House of Israel was divorced by God, and they became "not His people" until Christ came and we are saved not just by his death, but even more so by His LIFE.
Jesus will return and fulfill the Fall Feasts of Yahweh/LORD. If you opt out of being obedient to the command Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Remember who you are in Christ. We are not separate from the children of Israel, we are the children of Israel!!!!
These words are so beautiful.
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Do you have eyes to see and ears to hear. If you do, then all of Christ's parables should make total sense about the Kingdom of God/Heaven that is coming to planet Earth with Jesus Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords.
We have this blessed hope only because of the work of Jesus Christ/Yeshua. There is no dispensation saying that the Old Testament was for the children of Israel and that the New Testament is for the church/ekklesia/assembly.
There is no Jew or Greek, male or female, etc. we are all one in Christ Jesus.
Therefore, leave off your prejudice that the Old Testament is obsolete, because it plainly is not.
Which "rituals" are you saying Christ fulfilled? The sacrifices of burnt offerings, sacrifice of peace offering, sacrifice of thanksgiving, sacrifice voluntary offering, sacrifice of sin offering?
Lev 23:37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:
Lev 23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.
And in the millenium we see what is known as Ezekiel Temple where sacrifices and offerings are made again (this is future).
Ezekiel 40-48
Eze 40:39 And in the porch of the gate were two tables on this side, and two tables on that side, to slay thereon the burnt offering and the sin offering and the trespass offering.
Why does Christ have an earthly temple and offerings made in the millenium?
And why does Zechariah prophecy? Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Not all of the OT is obsolete. Actually, if your spiritual eyes were opened you would know that none of the OT is obsolete. Unless you want to argue semantics like the House of Israel was divorced by God, and they became "not His people" until Christ came and we are saved not just by his death, but even more so by His LIFE.
Jesus will return and fulfill the Fall Feasts of Yahweh/LORD. If you opt out of being obedient to the command Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Remember who you are in Christ. We are not separate from the children of Israel, we are the children of Israel!!!!
These words are so beautiful.
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Do you have eyes to see and ears to hear. If you do, then all of Christ's parables should make total sense about the Kingdom of God/Heaven that is coming to planet Earth with Jesus Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords.
We have this blessed hope only because of the work of Jesus Christ/Yeshua. There is no dispensation saying that the Old Testament was for the children of Israel and that the New Testament is for the church/ekklesia/assembly.
There is no Jew or Greek, male or female, etc. we are all one in Christ Jesus.
Therefore, leave off your prejudice that the Old Testament is obsolete, because it plainly is not.
E
All of the feasts have not been fulfilled by Christ. Christ fulfilled 100% the Spring Feasts (Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits/Feast of weeks and Pentecost/Shavuot.) The three remaining feasts which occur in the Fall have not yet been fulfilled by Christ, but He will fulfill these also 100%!!
Which "rituals" are you saying Christ fulfilled? The sacrifices of burnt offerings, sacrifice of peace offering, sacrifice of thanksgiving, sacrifice voluntary offering, sacrifice of sin offering?
Lev 23:37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:
Lev 23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.
And in the millenium we see what is known as Ezekiel Temple where sacrifices and offerings are made again (this is future).
Ezekiel 40-48
Eze 40:39 And in the porch of the gate were two tables on this side, and two tables on that side, to slay thereon the burnt offering and the sin offering and the trespass offering.
Why does Christ have an earthly temple and offerings made in the millenium?
And why does Zechariah prophecy? Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Not all of the OT is obsolete. Actually, if your spiritual eyes were opened you would know that none of the OT is obsolete. Unless you want to argue semantics like the House of Israel was divorced by God, and they became "not His people" until Christ came and we are saved not just by his death, but even more so by His LIFE.
Jesus will return and fulfill the Fall Feasts of Yahweh/LORD. If you opt out of being obedient to the command Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Remember who you are in Christ. We are not separate from the children of Israel, we are the children of Israel!!!!
These words are so beautiful.
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Do you have eyes to see and ears to hear. If you do, then all of Christ's parables should make total sense about the Kingdom of God/Heaven that is coming to planet Earth with Jesus Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords.
We have this blessed hope only because of the work of Jesus Christ/Yeshua. There is no dispensation saying that the Old Testament was for the children of Israel and that the New Testament is for the church/ekklesia/assembly.
There is no Jew or Greek, male or female, etc. we are all one in Christ Jesus.
Therefore, leave off your prejudice that the Old Testament is obsolete, because it plainly is not.
Which "rituals" are you saying Christ fulfilled? The sacrifices of burnt offerings, sacrifice of peace offering, sacrifice of thanksgiving, sacrifice voluntary offering, sacrifice of sin offering?
Lev 23:37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:
Lev 23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.
And in the millenium we see what is known as Ezekiel Temple where sacrifices and offerings are made again (this is future).
Ezekiel 40-48
Eze 40:39 And in the porch of the gate were two tables on this side, and two tables on that side, to slay thereon the burnt offering and the sin offering and the trespass offering.
Why does Christ have an earthly temple and offerings made in the millenium?
And why does Zechariah prophecy? Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Not all of the OT is obsolete. Actually, if your spiritual eyes were opened you would know that none of the OT is obsolete. Unless you want to argue semantics like the House of Israel was divorced by God, and they became "not His people" until Christ came and we are saved not just by his death, but even more so by His LIFE.
Jesus will return and fulfill the Fall Feasts of Yahweh/LORD. If you opt out of being obedient to the command Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Remember who you are in Christ. We are not separate from the children of Israel, we are the children of Israel!!!!
These words are so beautiful.
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Do you have eyes to see and ears to hear. If you do, then all of Christ's parables should make total sense about the Kingdom of God/Heaven that is coming to planet Earth with Jesus Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords.
We have this blessed hope only because of the work of Jesus Christ/Yeshua. There is no dispensation saying that the Old Testament was for the children of Israel and that the New Testament is for the church/ekklesia/assembly.
There is no Jew or Greek, male or female, etc. we are all one in Christ Jesus.
Therefore, leave off your prejudice that the Old Testament is obsolete, because it plainly is not.
The feasts are fulfilled. 100 %
No one said anything about all prophesy being fulfilled, But these have nada to do with salvation. And nada to do with being closer to God.
It sure has changed my walk with the Father and with Christ and has made me have understanding of the wholeness of the Word/OT and NT. I have no shame in being willing to obey His commandments and have the testimony of Jesus.
(Mat 4:10) Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
(Luk 4:8) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
(Luk 12:37) Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
(Rom 7:25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
(Rom 16:18) For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
(Col 3:24) Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
(Mat 7:23) Then I will tell them to their faces, 'I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!'
(Rom 6:19) (I am using popular language because your human nature is so weak.) For just as you used to offer your various parts as slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led to more lawlessness; so now offer your various parts as slaves to righteousness, which leads to being made holy, set apart for God.
(2Co 6:14) Do not yoke yourselves together in a team with unbelievers. For how can righteousness and lawlessness be partners? What fellowship does light have with darkness?
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Truly, I say to you. I have not achieved perfection in my own works, and thus I am all the more glad that Jesus paid the price of sin, which is the law of death. But I search the scriptures daily, pray without ceasing, that I will know our Father's Will and with the Holy Spirit have a desire to be pleasing in obedience.
(Mat 4:10) Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
(Luk 4:8) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
(Luk 12:37) Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
(Rom 7:25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
(Rom 16:18) For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
(Col 3:24) Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
(Mat 7:23) Then I will tell them to their faces, 'I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!'
(Rom 6:19) (I am using popular language because your human nature is so weak.) For just as you used to offer your various parts as slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led to more lawlessness; so now offer your various parts as slaves to righteousness, which leads to being made holy, set apart for God.
(2Co 6:14) Do not yoke yourselves together in a team with unbelievers. For how can righteousness and lawlessness be partners? What fellowship does light have with darkness?
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Truly, I say to you. I have not achieved perfection in my own works, and thus I am all the more glad that Jesus paid the price of sin, which is the law of death. But I search the scriptures daily, pray without ceasing, that I will know our Father's Will and with the Holy Spirit have a desire to be pleasing in obedience.
The 'making perfect' interpretation is questionable. Please look at my post that I made in reply to you a couple of pages before that you have yet to reply to. The focus of the word 'fulfill', as used consistently throughout Matthew, is on prophetic, eschatological fulfilment, not on refining or perfecting the law. It's a bit of a leap to say that Jesus is saying that he has perfected the Mosaic law and is telling us to follow it in full.
I just made notes on some of the responses of the first two pages and here is what I found:
The OT gives me a headache.
Christ fulfilled, so it is over.
I read the OT.
Anyone who seeks to obey the law RATHER than trusting Jesus. (We aren't to do both?)
You can't enter heaven if you follow the law
If the bible talks about feasts it can't be talking about personal relationships
Christ died to keep us from the law
The sacrificial system was only for Jews. (Ruth wasn't a Jew, so she was out?)
Adam and Seth didn't do any of God's suggestions for worship, that came later, so we shouldn't.
Rituals are legalistic
It is looking back
God gave the feasts no significance.
These ideas are not working for heathen ways, most work for Christ as our Savior. They have one fascinating thing in common, they are mostly truths that are used to separate us from God's whole truth. Jezebel did that. She would tell King Ahab his God approved when she wanted her way, and give some corresponding truth of God. And the way each poster seems to be working for is to not bother me with instructions in holy living or God principles given before Christ lived as a man and was crucified. The bulk of reasons given is based on Christ's fulfillment in how we can completely go to Him for forgiveness, better and more complete than in the OT. That is biblical truth. Many people believe Christ didn't do that, he made them go away. Fulfilled, they say.
The OT gives me a headache.
Christ fulfilled, so it is over.
I read the OT.
Anyone who seeks to obey the law RATHER than trusting Jesus. (We aren't to do both?)
You can't enter heaven if you follow the law
If the bible talks about feasts it can't be talking about personal relationships
Christ died to keep us from the law
The sacrificial system was only for Jews. (Ruth wasn't a Jew, so she was out?)
Adam and Seth didn't do any of God's suggestions for worship, that came later, so we shouldn't.
Rituals are legalistic
It is looking back
God gave the feasts no significance.
These ideas are not working for heathen ways, most work for Christ as our Savior. They have one fascinating thing in common, they are mostly truths that are used to separate us from God's whole truth. Jezebel did that. She would tell King Ahab his God approved when she wanted her way, and give some corresponding truth of God. And the way each poster seems to be working for is to not bother me with instructions in holy living or God principles given before Christ lived as a man and was crucified. The bulk of reasons given is based on Christ's fulfillment in how we can completely go to Him for forgiveness, better and more complete than in the OT. That is biblical truth. Many people believe Christ didn't do that, he made them go away. Fulfilled, they say.
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I dare to say, Redtent, that I have better to concentrate on the OT and in Jesus teaching. I have found some pauline ideas too Catholics that sometimes I look those letters as reference or traditions.
There are some blanks that "faith" fills in (a little) and keep on telling God and Jesus that they need to talk to each of us. Yes! It´s easy to believe there are 10 commandments, but there are more than 600 in the OT and, of course, I´m far behind so, His mercy is the hope I have to keep, but being obedient to the Holy One.
There are some blanks that "faith" fills in (a little) and keep on telling God and Jesus that they need to talk to each of us. Yes! It´s easy to believe there are 10 commandments, but there are more than 600 in the OT and, of course, I´m far behind so, His mercy is the hope I have to keep, but being obedient to the Holy One.
I dare to say, Redtent, that I had better to concentrate on the OT and in Jesus teaching. I have found some pauline ideas too Catholics that sometimes I look those letters as reference or traditions.
There are some blanks that "faith" fills in (a little) and keep on telling God and Jesus that they need to talk to each of us. Yes! It´s easy to believe there are 10 commandments, but there are more than 600 in the OT and, of course, I´m far behind so, His mercy is the hope I have to keep, but being obedient to the Holy One.
There are some blanks that "faith" fills in (a little) and keep on telling God and Jesus that they need to talk to each of us. Yes! It´s easy to believe there are 10 commandments, but there are more than 600 in the OT and, of course, I´m far behind so, His mercy is the hope I have to keep, but being obedient to the Holy One.
We have such a time communicating! What Christ made perfect was the way of atonement. The blood of animals to symbolize it was not perfect, Christ was. Christ couldn't perfect His Father. The crucifixion reflects on the law in that it saves us from death from the law.
To me, fulfill means that God meant the world to always have Christ, God used a symbol of His blood for atonement, and when Christ came in the flesh that purpose was fulfilled.
Thanks for watching me! If I say something that isn't from scripture, it needs to be corrected. This is a forum for God, not for me. We are to work together to find what God says.
To me, fulfill means that God meant the world to always have Christ, God used a symbol of His blood for atonement, and when Christ came in the flesh that purpose was fulfilled.
Thanks for watching me! If I say something that isn't from scripture, it needs to be corrected. This is a forum for God, not for me. We are to work together to find what God says.
I'm so glad I convinced you to really study the OT, too.
Those 613 laws of the OT are a wonderful study. You have to put them together with the culture of the time they were written for, and watch them for love. Their purpose was to create a safe place for God's people to live, they lived in such a wild time that some people sacrificed babies. God loved His people and wanted them safe. Also, it is the purpose of the law, not the letter of the law. For instance, God says to rest on the Sabbath, not that you can only walk an exact number of blocks on the Sabbath. Also, if it has to do with the temple, priests, or sacrifice as they were instructed, Christ replaced that so we aren't to count them. You can study them to see how Christ works for us, but we are to use Christ's blood, now. We can get hung up on "stoning" but that was seldom done. It does tell us what is most important to God.
And please remember that all Paul says is God breathed, and God never speaks against God. If it seems so, it is your misunderstanding, not Paul.
Those 613 laws of the OT are a wonderful study. You have to put them together with the culture of the time they were written for, and watch them for love. Their purpose was to create a safe place for God's people to live, they lived in such a wild time that some people sacrificed babies. God loved His people and wanted them safe. Also, it is the purpose of the law, not the letter of the law. For instance, God says to rest on the Sabbath, not that you can only walk an exact number of blocks on the Sabbath. Also, if it has to do with the temple, priests, or sacrifice as they were instructed, Christ replaced that so we aren't to count them. You can study them to see how Christ works for us, but we are to use Christ's blood, now. We can get hung up on "stoning" but that was seldom done. It does tell us what is most important to God.
And please remember that all Paul says is God breathed, and God never speaks against God. If it seems so, it is your misunderstanding, not Paul.
I do enjoy this conversation Thank you for your peaceable responses. I hope I can respond in kind.
I am not sure it is accurate to say that Christ 'perfected' the way of atonement. The reality is that the sacrificial system did not itself atone for the sins of Israel (Hebrews 10). The difference between the sacrificial system and Christ is not simply one of degree, but of kind - the atonement in the OT was as a sign to show how atonement was to be eventually revealed, Christ is the means by which atonement is actually applied. There is, and has only ever been one atonement - the provision of a perfect sacrifice by God, given in God's own great mercy and grace, in the person of the Lord Jesus.
But I think I agree with what you say after that. The Law stands as a lasting reminder of the separation of God and man, the Holiness of God, and the standard required to be as holy as he. Christ has not abolished the Law - the bar has not suddenly dropped, and God has not let his standards slip. Rather, Christ fulfills the law - the Law points to him, the sacrifices whispered his name, and he stands as the true Israel who is able to meet the Law's standards, and then stand as a high priest before us in a way Aaron never did, or could. So our obedience is not to the Law, but to Christ, who fulfills the law.
That does not mean that they overlap in some ways, but because the so much of the law is about self-purification and sanctification simply to be in the presence of God, and because that presence is accomplished in these latter days not by the blood of lambs and goats but by the perfect, once-applied blood of Christ and the deposit of the Holy Spirit, we must not be quick in turning back to the things that cannot save and are by definition shadows of the things that came later and that we have now.
Thank you for your peaceable responses. I hope I can respond in kind.I am not sure it is accurate to say that Christ 'perfected' the way of atonement. The reality is that the sacrificial system did not itself atone for the sins of Israel (Hebrews 10). The difference between the sacrificial system and Christ is not simply one of degree, but of kind - the atonement in the OT was as a sign to show how atonement was to be eventually revealed, Christ is the means by which atonement is actually applied. There is, and has only ever been one atonement - the provision of a perfect sacrifice by God, given in God's own great mercy and grace, in the person of the Lord Jesus.
But I think I agree with what you say after that. The Law stands as a lasting reminder of the separation of God and man, the Holiness of God, and the standard required to be as holy as he. Christ has not abolished the Law - the bar has not suddenly dropped, and God has not let his standards slip. Rather, Christ fulfills the law - the Law points to him, the sacrifices whispered his name, and he stands as the true Israel who is able to meet the Law's standards, and then stand as a high priest before us in a way Aaron never did, or could. So our obedience is not to the Law, but to Christ, who fulfills the law.
That does not mean that they overlap in some ways, but because the so much of the law is about self-purification and sanctification simply to be in the presence of God, and because that presence is accomplished in these latter days not by the blood of lambs and goats but by the perfect, once-applied blood of Christ and the deposit of the Holy Spirit, we must not be quick in turning back to the things that cannot save and are by definition shadows of the things that came later and that we have now.